Joel Valencia - signs to June 2023

Eieieio

Active member
Joined
27 Jul 2013
Messages
1,848
Reaction score
152
I get the nurturing approach. Its his first season, he didn't get game time etc. But weirdly he reminds me of Niall McGinn who we had on loan some years back. I watch him play and to my eyes some of the fundamentals just aren't there. And back to my point when is it EVER going to be a better time to show what you can do that when the whole team is performing well? We've watched a small host of B team graduates step up into the fore really well this year and to my mind had a bigger impact than him.

God it sounds like I'm on a downer about the guy but honestly I'm not! He's got my respect for enduring playing in the Polish league hahahaha.

someone playing like Valencia does coming from Polish league to England is always going to get a bit of a shock to the system. if he could get regular game time for half a season in league one (possibly even without the pressure of crowds!) I reckon it'd worth the wages to see if he can adapt.
 

mhead bee

Well-known member
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
26,399
Reaction score
2,453
Location
Maidenhead
Joel Valencia is not the first and won't be the last player who needs time to adjust, arriving from another team in another country. Hopefully this season he will be able to show everyone what he is about. Patience from supporters is key.

Probably be a superstar next season, but people can’t help righting people off because they are not SB in the first game.
 

Wouldbee

Active member
Joined
10 Apr 2007
Messages
2,896
Reaction score
205
Location
West Ealing
Probably be a superstar next season, but people can’t help righting people off because they are not SB in the first game.

I'm not writing him off after one game...I'm suggesting he's not going to step up having watched a season. The 'enough game time ' argument is catch 22. There's a reason players don't get game time, and when they do they either have to grasp the chance or risk dropping down the pecking order. Its the balance between nurturing talent and winning games and hes the ONE player I am saying hasn't progressed as you'd hope.

Let's see if he proves me wrong next season.
 

Ambrose_1889

Active member
Joined
10 Apr 2008
Messages
4,656
Reaction score
7
There is clearly a player in there but might just not be right for this division, like others (Kerschbaumer, Djuricin, etc) before him who also came from significantly weaker leagues.

If we can move him on and replace him with the likes of Bright Osayi-Samuel, there won't be many complaints. If he kicks on, then great but he doesn't seem at the level Jozefzoon was at at this stage with us.
 

jbee

Active member
Joined
22 Oct 2003
Messages
4,331
Reaction score
1,125
Location
Ealing
If nothing else he will have provided a useful reference point for interpreting data from other leagues.
 

Wouldbee

Active member
Joined
10 Apr 2007
Messages
2,896
Reaction score
205
Location
West Ealing
If nothing else he will have provided a useful reference point for interpreting data from other leagues.

The Polish league is utter toilet. It makes the Scottish league look like Seria A. You get flashes of brilliance but then again you get flashes of brilliance in the Chiswick and District league doesn't mean I'd sign someone from West London Pheonix or Duke Rangers (no offence lads ;-0)
 

Kingston Bee

Active member
Joined
22 Oct 2008
Messages
6,115
Reaction score
562
Location
Kingston-Upon-Thames
The Polish league is utter toilet. It makes the Scottish league look like Seria A. You get flashes of brilliance but then again you get flashes of brilliance in the Chiswick and District league doesn't mean I'd sign someone from West London Pheonix or Duke Rangers (no offence lads ;-0)

I am sure that the analytics team have taken all that into account.
 

mhead bee

Well-known member
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
26,399
Reaction score
2,453
Location
Maidenhead
I'm not writing him off after one game...I'm suggesting he's not going to step up having watched a season. The 'enough game time ' argument is catch 22. There's a reason players don't get game time, and when they do they either have to grasp the chance or risk dropping down the pecking order. Its the balance between nurturing talent and winning games and hes the ONE player I am saying hasn't progressed as you'd hope.

Let's see if he proves me wrong next season.

Heard the same about marcondes and many, many others.

I will let the DOF and coach decide.
 

jbee

Active member
Joined
22 Oct 2003
Messages
4,331
Reaction score
1,125
Location
Ealing
I'm not writing him off after one game...I'm suggesting he's not going to step up having watched a season. The 'enough game time ' argument is catch 22. There's a reason players don't get game time, and when they do they either have to grasp the chance or risk dropping down the pecking order. Its the balance between nurturing talent and winning games and hes the ONE player I am saying hasn't progressed as you'd hope.

Let's see if he proves me wrong next season.

Frank hasn’t been afraid to use him at times though. It’s not like with Dominic Thompson or Dru Yearwood who he clearly doesn’t rate.
 

The Pipe

Active member
Joined
7 Feb 2005
Messages
9,849
Reaction score
1,132
Location
churchinford Devon
Heard the same about marcondes and many, many others.

I will let the DOF and coach decide.

Fully agree, they have a pretty good track record one way and another!!!!

As an aside one thing that does concern me reading the GPG is the way we are happy to spend millions on various players. It is a new world now, yes there will be significant incoming from the likely sales however with reduced attendances the projected income from LR is likely to be halved and that little conundrum needs to be fed into the Balance Sheet together with how long we anticipate MB digging deep into his pockets
 

Eieieio

Active member
Joined
27 Jul 2013
Messages
1,848
Reaction score
152
Heard the same about marcondes and many, many others.

I will let the DOF and coach decide.

this is a football forum where fans like to debate and discuss. I mean, we could just all agree to stop chatting as mr Benham and all the coaches have our faith and know best, but that would just be a lot less fun.
 

mhead bee

Well-known member
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
26,399
Reaction score
2,453
Location
Maidenhead
this is a football forum where fans like to debate and discuss. I mean, we could just all agree to stop chatting as mr Benham and all the coaches have our faith and know best, but that would just be a lot less fun.

Yes, and if people are writing a player off before he has settled in I can also reply that the DOF probably know better
 

beebopalula

Well-known member
Joined
14 Jul 2006
Messages
11,697
Reaction score
371
Location
Surbiton
Interesting views. IMO he's not what is needed at this level.l don't question his commitment but that alone isn't enough.
 

hardybee

Member
Joined
27 Jan 2011
Messages
732
Reaction score
206
Not seen enough of him to have an opinion. Not played enough minutes. Although it does make you wonder if he’s not going to start games like today then he’s obviously not showing enough in training.
 

Mr Cynical

Well-known member
Joined
1 Jul 2000
Messages
14,479
Reaction score
3,749
Location
London
You have to wonder if he can only get 6 minutes against 10 man Wycombe what the future is for this guy here?
 

upnorthbee

Active member
Joined
3 Jan 2006
Messages
1,938
Reaction score
710
Location
Singapore
He's a bit of a mystery isn't he, but doesn't look confident at the moment. Still hoping he gets some minutes and fights for his place this season.
 

HaylingBee74

Active member
Joined
8 Aug 2020
Messages
1,824
Reaction score
778
Location
Hayling Island
I feel he is better as a substitute on the right side than Sergi is. But he definitely needs some regular game time. The drop from 5 to 3 substitutes has down him no favours, I still hope that decision is reversed
 

mhead bee

Well-known member
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
26,399
Reaction score
2,453
Location
Maidenhead
I feel he is better as a substitute on the right side than Sergi is. But he definitely needs some regular game time. The drop from 5 to 3 substitutes has down him no favours, I still hope that decision is reversed

What do you think will happen to change this, what are you hoping will happen to reverse this decision?
 

HaylingBee74

Active member
Joined
8 Aug 2020
Messages
1,824
Reaction score
778
Location
Hayling Island
What do you think will happen to change this, what are you hoping will happen to reverse this decision?

I thought I read somewhere over the weekend that the Premier League were still discussing it.

That as Premier League though, so not EFL anyway
 
Last edited:

Wouldbee

Active member
Joined
10 Apr 2007
Messages
2,896
Reaction score
205
Location
West Ealing
Iv e said it before and I'll say it again. I get the ' he needs game time' sentiment but the fact he isn't getting time shows the manager doesn't think hes at it. Like Jeanvier its time to loan him out. My personal feel is he's been found wanting , sadly. I'd transfer him with all the best wishes and concede it hasn't worked out.

I'm going to draw analogy with three past players who we tended to use as laterntaive striking/ attacking options. Dallas. El Alagui. McGinn.

Dallas was only mainly rated as a sub but used to come on and either score or set up goals. He didn't start many games even when he did well, but he generally did well. I was sad he left. He was a good example of a man who grabbed the chances he was given.
El Alagui barely got starts and didn't score many goals . However he was always bright, he added a genuinely different dimension to our attack and things started to open up when he came on late in games. So he didn't QUITE do enough to merit a starting place ahead of some very good players but you feel he could develop though eventually time ran out for him.
McGinn was on loan, came on for us in games and did very little. We didn't look to try and buy him because he did nothing to peak interest of note other than run about.

Comparing Valencia to those three I'd say he falls somewhere between Alagui and McGinn in terms of what hes brought and where he is.
 

Eieieio

Active member
Joined
27 Jul 2013
Messages
1,848
Reaction score
152
Iv e said it before and I'll say it again. I get the ' he needs game time' sentiment but the fact he isn't getting time shows the manager doesn't think hes at it. Like Jeanvier its time to loan him out. My personal feel is he's been found wanting , sadly. I'd transfer him with all the best wishes and concede it hasn't worked out.

I'm going to draw analogy with three past players who we tended to use as laterntaive striking/ attacking options. Dallas. El Alagui. McGinn.

Dallas was only mainly rated as a sub but used to come on and either score or set up goals. He didn't start many games even when he did well, but he generally did well. I was sad he left. He was a good example of a man who grabbed the chances he was given.
El Alagui barely got starts and didn't score many goals . However he was always bright, he added a genuinely different dimension to our attack and things started to open up when he came on late in games. So he didn't QUITE do enough to merit a starting place ahead of some very good players but you feel he could develop though eventually time ran out for him.
McGinn was on loan, came on for us in games and did very little. We didn't look to try and buy him because he did nothing to peak interest of note other than run about.

Comparing Valencia to those three I'd say he falls somewhere between Alagui and McGinn in terms of what hes brought and where he is.

Think you're quite right that Valencia needs to go out on loan somewhere where he'll play every week. Give him a chance to prove himself in an english league. But seems pretty clear he's unlikely as things stand to get a run of games as a starter for us?
 

jbee

Active member
Joined
22 Oct 2003
Messages
4,331
Reaction score
1,125
Location
Ealing
Think you're quite right that Valencia needs to go out on loan somewhere where he'll play every week. Give him a chance to prove himself in an english league. But seems pretty clear he's unlikely as things stand to get a run of games as a starter for us?

Very tough to find that loan, if he would even want it.
 
Joined
11 Jun 2005
Messages
19,202
Reaction score
311
Location
Berkshire
Iv e said it before and I'll say it again. I get the ' he needs game time' sentiment but the fact he isn't getting time shows the manager doesn't think hes at it. Like Jeanvier its time to loan him out. My personal feel is he's been found wanting , sadly. I'd transfer him with all the best wishes and concede it hasn't worked out.

I'm going to draw analogy with three past players who we tended to use as laterntaive striking/ attacking options. Dallas. El Alagui. McGinn.

Dallas was only mainly rated as a sub but used to come on and either score or set up goals. He didn't start many games even when he did well, but he generally did well. I was sad he left. He was a good example of a man who grabbed the chances he was given.
El Alagui barely got starts and didn't score many goals . However he was always bright, he added a genuinely different dimension to our attack and things started to open up when he came on late in games. So he didn't QUITE do enough to merit a starting place ahead of some very good players but you feel he could develop though eventually time ran out for him.
McGinn was on loan, came on for us in games and did very little. We didn't look to try and buy him because he did nothing to peak interest of note other than run about.

Comparing Valencia to those three I'd say he falls somewhere between Alagui and McGinn in terms of what hes brought and where he is.

Farid was starting to look good, forming a decent understanding with Clayton and then got a bad knee injury. Harsh. Wasn't the same after that.
 

HaylingBee74

Active member
Joined
8 Aug 2020
Messages
1,824
Reaction score
778
Location
Hayling Island
Without Said & Ollie as starters, who both played almost 90 mins of every game (Ollie was especially) there should be more opportunities for game time from the bench. The season is over a month shorter.
He needs the phrase “make an impact” ringing in his ears a little more this season, as in his goal at Reading
 

alexcavell

Active member
Joined
16 Jul 2005
Messages
2,939
Reaction score
200
Location
Tufnell Park
Farid was starting to look good, forming a decent understanding with Clayton and then got a bad knee injury. Harsh. Wasn't the same after that.

And by the time he came back we were playing with 1 upfront, which didn't really suit him, rather than 4-4-2 when he first joined
 

liverbee

Active member
Joined
17 May 2006
Messages
5,403
Reaction score
483
Location
Liverpool at present
You have to wonder if he can only get 6 minutes against 10 man Wycombe what the future is for this guy here?

Or you could take the view that Thomas Frank is testing other players for stamina etc. I lost the signal on Sunday to the weather, but I’m still holding expectations for more good things from this chap.
 

Mr Cynical

Well-known member
Joined
1 Jul 2000
Messages
14,479
Reaction score
3,749
Location
London
Seems like he's had a knee injury and a poor attitude has been mentioned.

really? That’s a surprise. Seems v out of character from the impression he gave here. Think it’s safe to say though that this is a signing that hasn’t worked. We’re unlikely to get much of our investment back and pretty sure we’ll want to move him on in the summer. May be difficult though given he’s only really known in Poland.
 

Artixbee

Active member
Joined
21 May 2012
Messages
1,599
Reaction score
100
Will technically be our player again in a month's time. Is there much interest amongst clubs in Poland?
 

TW3Bee

It was down in the Town of Northampton
Joined
26 Oct 2005
Messages
58,287
Reaction score
1,816
Location
Lampton Village
How has he been getting on, does anybody know?

Just checked.
He last played, fir 38 minutes in January, was on the bench for a couple of games, but has been injured since February.
 
Last edited:

HaylingBee74

Active member
Joined
8 Aug 2020
Messages
1,824
Reaction score
778
Location
Hayling Island
How has he been getting on, does anybody know?

Just checked.
He last played, fir 38 minutes in January, was on the bench for a couple of games, but has been injured since February.

they say he has had a knee injury
 

TW3Bee

It was down in the Town of Northampton
Joined
26 Oct 2005
Messages
58,287
Reaction score
1,816
Location
Lampton Village
The poor attitude sounds strange as he always seemed quite the opposite.
 

busheybee

Active member
Joined
15 Jan 2006
Messages
2,059
Reaction score
24
Loved the 'There is nothing left of the old splendor' comment, possibly not helped by Polish/English online translation.
 

HaylingBee74

Active member
Joined
8 Aug 2020
Messages
1,824
Reaction score
778
Location
Hayling Island
Translation:-
Joel Valencia will be carrying out medical research by Brentford FC in the coming days and will remain in England until the season ends. After the period of loan to Legia Warszawa, the player will return to the club with the Championship, informs legia.com.
Much more was expected of him, but he did not impress in any game. Usually he just played poorly, he was as if next to him, he had only single glimpses. He did not even come close to the form of the championship season at the Hub. He did not conquer the Championship - and after his performances at Łazienkowska Street, it was explained why. He did not give his best, especially in two situations: in the match against Lech (he did not run after Czerwiński) and Wisła Kraków (Żukow dealt with him too easily in the side sector - after a while there was a goal for the rivals).
The situation seemed to change after the Dubai camp, where the Ecuadorian looked very promising. Unfortunately, he did not prove it in stakes games. This year he played only once, in the first meeting after the winter break (in Bielsko-Biała). Since then, he has struggled with injuries - more or less. He played 12 matches in Legia, he had no assist or goal.

 

Beat Poet

Tubthumping
Joined
12 Sep 2003
Messages
7,378
Reaction score
316
Location
Hertfordshire
Why TF would think he was worthy of a place on the bench I don't know, but it'd be interesting to know for the hell of it if he's eligible for the playoffs.
 

wanderer paul

https://brentfordfcmemorabilia.wordpress.com/
Joined
28 Oct 2002
Messages
51,427
Reaction score
2,926
Location
Brentford
Why TF would think he was worthy of a place on the bench I don't know, but it'd be interesting to know for the hell of it if he's eligible for the playoffs.

No. They're not allowed to play in the remaining matches if the player has returned to their parent Club. :sorted:
 

Mr Cynical

Well-known member
Joined
1 Jul 2000
Messages
14,479
Reaction score
3,749
Location
London
So Joel is under contract with us until 2023... Quite surprised at how long that contract was given it seemed a bit of a punt in the first place. He's hardly played for Legia this season, he's another we're going to struggle to move on in the summer. Do we give him another shot?
 

wibs

Well-known member
Joined
6 Jun 2001
Messages
29,775
Reaction score
1,779
Location
I AM a location
does he still exist?
 

Ghost

Active member
Joined
22 May 2002
Messages
8,982
Reaction score
34
Location
Mitcham
So Joel is under contract with us until 2023... Quite surprised at how long that contract was given it seemed a bit of a punt in the first place. He's hardly played for Legia this season, he's another we're going to struggle to move on in the summer. Do we give him another shot?

Strangely enough his game might be more suited to the PL. On balance though, I would say he's going to have to go down with Hofmann, Kershbaumer, McLeod..
 
Top Bottom