Final Score Liverpool 3 Brentford 0

King Bee

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Playing 433 was working like a charm last season, top of the league and a 20+ unbeaten run. Toney scoring for fun. We didn't change to 3-5-2 until April and it was because Rico and Dasilva were out and it was hurting us. It did get us over the line, but we've now got 11 points from 14 games and are living off our good start. Think it could be time to try something different.
Ok, looking back, I stand corrected - I thought it was earlier on in the season (Jan/Feb) when we changed but I think we'd be murdered week in week out if we went 4-3-3 in the Prem. As soon as we went 3 up front today we lost shape, the low block had disintegrated and Liverpool exploited it. We just don't have the players at this level to play that formation. We need a player (or two) that is happy to go deep to receive the ball, take players on and create space for others. The only player that can do that effectively is Norgaard but he needs one or two others to do the same. Baptiste maybe in time, but he needs to grow at this level and believe he is capable of doing it week in week out...
 
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wibs

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I really don't think it's worth even thinking about that game for another second.

It was one of those, that was very hard and in reality we would have needed to play superbly to even get a draw. Certainly the game has almost zero effect on games we will play against teams around and below is in the league.

I'm moving on.
 

LingfieldBee

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Oh right, I thought MB and others had said a number of times that the bottom of the PL was similar to the top of the championship. Lol.
When did Liverpool suddenly become a bottom half team? You can't expect us to play open attacking flowing football in the PL, yes they said bottom of PL to top championship, relatively okay to be competitive, but not to play a free flowing attacking football. Your get ripped apart from the quality in the league. The truth is our current system is one quality right back (I'm not knocking Roeslerv) and another decent CM away from being a very competitive mid table side.

Wissa isn't ready to go 433 hasn't shown anywhere near the levels. Roeslerv isn't strong enough to be in a back 4, and apart from Janelt and CN we don't have another quality centre mid. Baptise/Jensen/Ghoddas/Frank not at the levels to play in a free flowing attacking 433 that you wish for.

352 gives us a solid platform to be tight and play with pressure and choose moments to play good football in games. Don't be fooled we are achieving good results through Franks management of a good organised side that know their jobs, but we do lack individual quality.

The only worry is we've started to leak goals and that needs to be amended.
 

Wise old Bee

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I've never been overly-optimistic so four wins and a couple of draws will do. I would take 0-0 against MU and WW
We need to grind this out and games against the bottom four and the likes of Palace and Soton will hold the key. Never expected much today but I did against Soton. Looking forward to MU, big night.
 

james2b

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Looked like our lads had lead boots on today 😤 Liverpool were better in every department, shame nil nil at halftime would’ve have given the lads a boost , never mind some coming back from injury they can only get sharper COYB 🐝🐝
 

Comic Book Guy

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As others have said, was always a big ask to go into Anfield and to come out with anything. Just stinks the manner in which they got their goals, but all we can really do is move on to Wednesday against United. In the grand scheme of things, I don't think this result is really going to affect us all that much.

But yes, we do need to find a better way to open up defenses; just seem to stagnant and predictable right now.

Let's hope we can get something out of the United game to get us back on track.
 

finsbury_bee

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When did Liverpool suddenly become a bottom half team? You can't expect us to play open attacking flowing football in the PL, yes they said bottom of PL to top championship, relatively okay to be competitive, but not to play a free flowing attacking football. Your get ripped apart from the quality in the league. The truth is our current system is one quality right back (I'm not knocking Roeslerv) and another decent CM away from being a very competitive mid table side.

Wissa isn't ready to go 433 hasn't shown anywhere near the levels. Roeslerv isn't strong enough to be in a back 4, and apart from Janelt and CN we don't have another quality centre mid. Baptise/Jensen/Ghoddas/Frank not at the levels to play in a free flowing attacking 433 that you wish for.

352 gives us a solid platform to be tight and play with pressure and choose moments to play good football in games. Don't be fooled we are achieving good results through Franks management of a good organised side that know their jobs, but we do lack individual quality.

The only worry is we've started to leak goals and that needs to be amended.
You can be flexible in other formations. I never said we had to play free flowing attacking football against Liverpool. But I think we needed more of an outlet that having wide players would have given. A low midfield three in front of a back four should be fairly solid, with an out ball to the wings. Personally, I think we have more players suited to 433 than our current formation. I actually think Ajer would be superb in the Dalsgaard role, if you don't think Roerslev is up to it.
 
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Forget all this nonsense about the game. We need the real questions answered…

Did everyone stand quietly and respectfully for YNWA and then give it a rapturous applause when it was finished?

@Silly Hat @Voice from the Braemar I hope you were leading this show of solidarity.
 

Beezy

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We did have a brighter period where we pushed up the pitch a bit but didn't lose our shape too much. But that was a short enough period. It's a tough one as when we went 1-0 then i think at 2-0 (or was it jsut before?) Thomas changed it to go more attacking and we lost the middle of the park. that's when we were sitting ducks.

I think to be fair, yes, particularly the third goal was a mistake, but the previous mistakes came from sustained Liverpool pressure. I think we're experiencing "second half of the first season" syndrome, where teams have done their homework and are adapting to play against us. I've read others that have said 1 or 2 new signings would bring a boost - I agree and I do hope Toney can find his mojo quickly as he's not been at the races (by his high standards) since covid. fingers crossed it's quick.
 

Indian Bee

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I predicted a 3-0 loss but hugely disappointing the goals we gave away today. All should have been avoided and if we go in 0-0 at HT, the crowd would have started to feel nervous and even then we were in the game at 1-0 and Ethan misses a header. The third goal was just blah and summed up our defending in the last 2 games. All is not lost, we still have a comfortable lead over the bottom 3 and 2 important home games coming up this week that we needs points from.

We need to get our mojo back and I am sure it will be a cracking atmosphere on Wednesday night - I hope TF is learning from the last couple of games and so are the players. Let's stop gifting goals and get at United from the off and stop giving teams too much respect.
 

Bangor Bee

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I agree.
We aren’t going to make many chances the way we are set up so you have to take the one’s you do.
Mbeumo not hitting the target early in the second half was criminal.
Criminal? That's pretty strong! Mbeumo did well to create the space for the shot, and it would had to have been inch perfect to beat Alisson as from Mbeumo's body position there was only one place he could try to put it and Alisson would have known that.
 

Andy_Mc_is_God

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I predicted a 3-0 loss but hugely disappointing the goals we gave away today. All should have been avoided and if we go in 0-0 at HT, the crowd would have started to feel nervous and even then we were in the game at 1-0 and Ethan misses a header. The third goal was just blah and summed up our defending in the last 2 games. All is not lost, we still have a comfortable lead over the bottom 3 and 2 important home games coming up this week that we needs points from.

We need to get our mojo back and I am sure it will be a cracking atmosphere on Wednesday night - I hope TF is learning from the last couple of games and so are the players. Let's stop gifting goals and get at United from the off and stop giving teams too much respect.
Good post IB.
Defending deep and inviting the opposition on may make counter-attacking easier but gives the opposition far too many chances. And eventually there will be a c0ck-up which leads to a goal.
It also means our best player is virtually a defender.
Waste of a bloody good player.
 

sonofabee

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Frustrating as a game we had zero chance of winning if you can’t force their keeper to make a save. We look better and have cover at the back when Ajer and Rico start and both did well today at the defensive side of the game but neither got forward and got past the last defender to deliver crosses in.
Norgaard was everywhere again and Vitaly battled well but Shandon didn’t do enough again despite looking decent and comfortable when he did get on the ball. To me he seems too happy to let the others do the heavy lifting and you can’t carry a passenger against oppo who are as mobile as the scousers.
Bryan again worked his wotsits off and deserved more for his efforts unlike Ivan who looked off his game and a bit out of his depth against quality defenders who had him in their pockets.

For me it was significantly better than mid week but we don’t look dangerous going forward or likely to score and can’t see that changing until we get someone in midfield who can run at and past players in the final third and or get up to support or go past our front two.

I really think it’s going to be a case of making sure we keep three below us and anything else is a bonus now.

What a great weekend though, the scallies we met were very friendly, hospitable and we had a lovely meal with outstanding company in the Salt Room and a great craic in The Cavern, especially Hey Jude.
 

dickie

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Worked in the Championship when we had BMW but when B+ W left it didn't quite click it, did it? We then went 3-5-2, adding a bit of steel to our underbelly and that was what got us promoted. You now think we should go back to 4-3-3 against Premier League oppo...that's asking for trouble, surely?
Perhaps, no shame in losing to Liverpool. Good points, you’re probably right!
 

Isaac Cox

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Forget all this nonsense about the game. We need the real questions answered…

Did everyone stand quietly and respectfully for YNWA and then give it a rapturous applause when it was finished?

@Silly Hat @Voice from the Braemar I hope you were leading this show of solidarity.
I think I saw the match officials resecting, applauding and cheering
 

Andy_Mc_is_God

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Criminal? That's pretty strong! Mbeumo did well to create the space for the shot, and it would had to have been inch perfect to beat Alisson as from Mbeumo's body position there was only one place he could try to put it and Alisson would have known that.
Maybe a bit harsh and I agree he did well to create the space but he has to hit the target if our game-plan means we are going to only make a coupledecent chances per game.
I’m not a Bryan Basher but he also has to do better with ball retention and distribution. Gave the ball away far too often and easily, and again if we play the style we do we can’t afford that.
Not sure what options we have as Wissa is patently not the answer, did he have a touch?
 

hypa123

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It also means our best player is virtually a defender.
Waste of a bloody good player.
You mean Ivan Toney? Is he really our best player? Is he even, these days, an attacker? He hasn't scored from open play for ages. It can't all be blamed on inadequate service from mid-field.

Ivan was great for us last season but it seems to me that he has yet to prove himself as a striker at Premier League level. I hope he does, and soon.
 

Gee Bee

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I really don't think it's worth even thinking about that game for another second.

It was one of those, that was very hard and in reality we would have needed to play superbly to even get a draw. Certainly the game has almost zero effect on games we will play against teams around and below is in the league.

I'm moving on.
Worryingly the trend has been playing pretty poor against teams below or around us, 😢
 

Shamrock_Bee

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Most teams will get beat at Anfield with maybe one shock a season, today was never going to be that day. Klopp wasn't going to allow another BCS 3-3 and he set his team up to push, press and close our space. I've read about poor goals, yes but at any level a team having to defend for their lives with zero offensive threat or someone to hold up the ball to give everyone a break will inevitably lead to lack of concentration and that is what happened.

In saying that as mentioned post Southampton we don't have the defensive depth to defend away from home in the PL. The performances against good teams at home is different because they won't attack to the same level. At 1-0 the game was over today. Toney is being targeted and marked by top quality defenders; he needs to find a way to be a threat again.

Good away trip, we go again on Wednesday.
 

ChertseyBee

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Expected little and got nothing, but hugely disappointing to see comic book defending.

I’d have loved to have seen a bit more, because that‘s it for me now, for at least a year and maybe longer. I’m leaving the UK shores for good next week. Enjoy the Premier League everyone!
 

Andy_Mc_is_God

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You mean Ivan Toney? Is he really our best player? Is he even, these days, an attacker? He hasn't scored from open play for ages. It can't all be blamed on inadequate service from mid-field.

Ivan was great for us last season but it seems to me that he has yet to prove himself as a striker at Premier League level. I hope he does, and soon.
I agree with you hypa.
Because he’s not playing as a striker in the system we’re currently playing.
Doing too much trench-digging, he must finish every game absolutely knackered and so frustrated. At one point in the first half today we did really well down the left wing and he hit a great cross in but he just didn’t have the legs to make it into the box to head it in ….. w@nker.
Maybe play an extra midfielder, bolster up the middle of the park, let him play as a real striker and support him better?
 

Twickenhamben

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We will be fine this season. It’s a myth that you need 40 pts to stay up, in the last few seasons 35 pts would have been fine. Let’s call it 36; we need 13 pts from 17 games and have a run where we play the bottom 3 in consecutive weekends I’m actually more concerned about next season - I think we have new worked out and definitely need to improve the quality in the squad to avoid going down and the classic second season hangover.
 

Indian Bee

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I agree.
We aren’t going to make many chances the way we are set up so you have to take the one’s you do.
Mbeumo not hitting the target early in the second half was criminal.

Mbeumo played reasonably well I thought but I agree he must be hitting the target there. It was our chance, we didn't take and then gave away another goal. We need to get away from thinking he has been unlucky this season when he has hit the woodwork many times, I say it is poor finishing. This is not a dig although it appears to be but he must do better.

I am sure Liverpool spent a lot of training sessions preparing for this game on set pieces and we didn't even have a corner in the whole game. As you said the way we are currently set up we are not in a position to create many chances.
 

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I think TF was right to back Alvaro after Tuesday but there appears to be a real disconnect between GK and defence and that needs to be urgently addressed.
In the first half Rico put the ball out for a needless corner because there was no call and Ajer had to hurry a clearance for the same reason after which he had a go at Alvarro. The defenders need the keeper to direct them when the threat is (or isn't in Rico's case) coming in behind them.
 

BaildonBee

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Mbeumo played reasonably well I thought but I agree he must be hitting the target there. It was our chance, we didn't take and then gave away another goal. We need to get away from thinking he has been unlucky this season when he has hit the woodwork many times, I say it is poor finishing. This is not a dig although it appears to be but he must do better.

I am sure Liverpool spent a lot of training sessions preparing for this game on set pieces and we didn't even have a corner in the whole game. As you said the way we are currently set up we are not in a position to create many chances.
Liverpool only conceded one foul in the first half so we had no free opportunities to get ourselves up the park. 2 of the 5 fouls they did concede were in injury time at the end of the game.
 

BedfontRed

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We will be fine this season. It’s a myth that you need 40 pts to stay up, in the last few seasons 35 pts would have been fine. Let’s call it 36; we need 13 pts from 17 games and have a run where we play the bottom 3 in consecutive weekends I’m actually more concerned about next season - I think we have new worked out and definitely need to improve the quality in the squad to avoid going down and the classic second season hangover.
Totally agree I think we will just about be ok. Not playing well at the moment but 3 or 4 more wins and Job done 👍
 

Indian Bee

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I really don't think it's worth even thinking about that game for another second.

It was one of those, that was very hard and in reality we would have needed to play superbly to even get a draw. Certainly the game has almost zero effect on games we will play against teams around and below is in the league.

I'm moving on.

I hope TF and the players don't take this attitude - there is a lot to learn from this game more how we set up and whether we need to jig our system in someway. I wasn't expecting any points but every game one can learn from.
 

lanzabee

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You mean Ivan Toney? Is he really our best player? Is he even, these days, an attacker? He hasn't scored from open play for ages. It can't all be blamed on inadequate service from mid-field.

Ivan was great for us last season but it seems to me that he has yet to prove himself as a striker at Premier League level. I hope he does, and soon.
He seems to be playing in midfield half the time at the moment. Time we got on the front foot again.
 

Indian Bee

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Liverpool only conceded one foul in the first half so we had no free opportunities to get ourselves up the park. 2 of the 5 fouls they did concede were in injury time at the end of the game.

Similar to Man City at home. Guardiola made the point in his post match interview how they restricted us to zero chances in the second half against them. We can learn from this as we do tend to give away unnecessary free kicks.
 

Mr Cynical

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We were always going to lose at Anfield, you've got to defend so well for the full 90 minutes it's almost impossible for a team like us and once you're 1 down if you try to go forward it just opens up. Will be the same at Man City. Much more concerning is the performance at Southampton, the nature of the goals we're conceding and our lack of ability on the ball at the moment. I suspect we will bring in Lossl on Wed and that might help but it's not just down to the keeper that we're letting goals in at corners. Hopefully we'll get a bit of positive news in the transfer market to lift everyone's spirits, and by that I mean someone who can come straight in and make a difference..
 

BaildonBee

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Similar to Man City at home. Guardiola made the point in his post match interview how they restricted us to zero chances in the second half against them. We can learn from this as we do tend to give away unnecessary free kicks.
Mind you, the referee did help as he was very reluctant to give any fouls against them particularly in the first half in my bitter but completely unbiased view!
 

abellbee

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In the first half Rico put the ball out for a needless corner because there was no call and Ajer had to hurry a clearance for the same reason after which he had a go at Alvarro. The defenders need the keeper to direct them when the threat is (or isn't in Rico's case) coming in behind them.
There lies the problem, someone posted earlier Raya conceded 9 in 9 but Alvarez is something like 27 in 15, not saying for a minute it's all down to bad goalkeeping but how many of those were poor defending. If you don't get a call from behind you, a lapse of concentration or a second of indecision in the premiership will be punished.
 

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I think we didn't expect a lot today but what disappointed me was all 3 goals were totally preventable. I'm watched on TV in the states and the commentary said as much. As mentioned before at corners we have become woeful. Yes Liverpool are good but we gifted them that today
 

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It was Liverpool away, it was never going to be a fairytale story. They were streets ahead, without their best players on the pitch.

I don't want to piss the bed, however, I think we have been pretty poor for a while. No flair or zip about our play.

We must find a way to provide Toney the ball in the box, because this current tactic is helping nobody.

Mbeumo is 10 times better when he cuts in from the right wing position and shoots.

Alvaro saves today were absolutely brilliant. Unfortunately, he is unable to marshal his defence or command his area which is obviously a major issue.

We have been absolutely fantastic up till now, although I believe its time for our strategy to change second part of the season.

I'm saying 4-3-3 which I genuinely believe will scare the life out of some of the teams in this league.

Look, I'm living the dream with the rest of you 😌

Come on you bees, bring of the Mancs
Yep, how I see it. The squad is what it is and we all know a few key injuries are hurting us, so TF can't do much with the personnel but it feels time for a refresh and a change of shape could be it. A number of players who are fully fit also look off their game recently and some mental fatigue has probably set in.

Hero to zero for Fernandez today who made 2 great saves to keep us in it and then embarassed us all for the third (decision making), but the bigger issue with the GK is the organisation of the defence from corners and free kicks round the box which clearly aint happening. That said, what's Jansen doing here and it's been a big ask for him to step in, Luke Daniels would have been a much safer bet in these circumstances but no point dwelling on that now.
 

hypa123

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It was going reasonably well until one minute before half-time, when a goal from a set piece, which could and should have been cut out, changed the shape of the game. We were up against one of the best two teams in the toughest league in the world. I wouldn't say we played badly (apart from conceding that clownish third goal), but something has to be done about the attack: our strike force just isn't firing right now. Mbeumo is the only forward who looks remotely like scoring. (If his shot on goal had gone just a shade further to the right we'd have been 1-1 and in with a shout for full points).

I think we should be all right come the end of the season - several of our more winnable games come in March and April - but we shouldn't have to be depending on other teams to drop points in order to avoid slipping into the relegation battle.
 

Mr Cynical

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There lies the problem, someone posted earlier Raya conceded 9 in 9 but Alvarez is something like 27 in 15, not saying for a minute it's all down to bad goalkeeping but how many of those were poor defending. If you don't get a call from behind you, a lapse of concentration or a second of indecision in the premiership will be punished.
If you don't get a call then get rid, simple as. 🤷‍♂️
 

Delbee

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It was going reasonably well until one minute before half-time, when a goal from a set piece, which could and should have been cut out, changed the shape of the game. We were up against one of the best two teams in the toughest league in the world. I wouldn't say we played badly (apart from conceding that clownish third goal), but something has to be done about the attack: our strike force just isn't firing right now. Mbeumo is the only forward who looks remotely like scoring. (If his shot on goal had gone just a shade further to the right we'd have been 1-1 and in with a shout for full points).

I think we should be all right come the end of the season - several of our more winnable games come in March and April - but we shouldn't have to be depending on other teams to drop points in order to avoid slipping into the relegation battle.
Totally agree with you last part about March April we should be able to get the wins and draws we need 40 points
but add also
Dasilva , Raya and a fitter Henry .
Maybe a couple of New Signing
Peart Harris , Young Combes and the midfielder from Spurs maybe nearer the first team
 

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Weird when a Brentford supporter is disappointed coming away from Anfield with a loss. If only Brian Turners shot had gone in off the post.
Todays defeat didn't feel so bad. Fine margins. 1st goal Henderson blocked our best defender from corners Ivan Toney. Norgaard missed it. Great through ball by Norgaard which Mbeumo should have equalised. A couple of good saves by Fernandez after poor /missed tackles put Liverpool through on goal. 2nd goal Pinnock normally would've nodded that away. It just hit Oxade-Chamberlain on the head as he was looking at the ground. Canos was a bit slow getting back to cover but Thomas is asking a lot from him. He's not Henry defensively but Henry isn't Canos in attack either. 3rd goal I'm going to put down to Norgaard. If he hadn't come for it and then lost the ball they would not have scored. I see lots of unwarranted criticism of our goal keeper simply because he is not Raya. We are not playing as a unit. We are not winning the second ball. We are gifting every clearance to an opposition player. We had a few glimpses of the old Brentford stringing fast accurate passes together which is what we need to do in this league to become one of the top six next season.
 

Silly Hat

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Forget all this nonsense about the game. We need the real questions answered…

Did everyone stand quietly and respectfully for YNWA and then give it a rapturous applause when it was finished?

@Silly Hat @Voice from the Braemar I hope you were leading this show of solidarity.
Didn’t hear them sing YMCA or whatever it is at all - I was too busy belting out Super Brentford to notice or care.

My bad (as they said in 2005). I guess I’m now off Jim ‘Non-Brentford’ Levack’s Xmas card list 😐
 

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Just seen highlights. Oh dear. All three goals eminently avoidable. Horrible. The team look really jittery at corners.
Any balls into the box seem to cause confusion at the moment, with no one really taking command of situations.

We need to get back to do the basics right; that third goal today just sums up how we are still trying to play a certain way, even if that option isn't there. I don't think there is anything wrong in just playing our opponents and trying to get points from a game, which is what we did at the start of the season IMHO when we looked sharpest against Liverpool, Chelsea etc. I feel we're almost being a little too stubborn at times.
 

Shamrock_Bee

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Totally agree with you last part about March April we should be able to get the wins and draws we need 40 points
but add also
Dasilva , Raya and a fitter Henry .
Maybe a couple of New Signing
Peart Harris , Young Combes and the midfielder from Spurs maybe nearer the first team

We'll be fine because of our home games, I think we'll win another 5 at the BCS and pick up two draws there or away. We'll finish around the 38 - 42 point mark which is an achievement but there'll be a few tough away days yet.
 

Silly Hat

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Non-football post whilst sat at Stafford Services (hummus update available on request).

Every single Brentford fan who was there today must swear that we will never, ever let our support become even 1% of what Liverpool’s has degenerated into. Anfield is now the absolute epitome of a tourist club for tourists, with mute weirdos decked out in scarves and hats, clutching their plastic bag full of **** from the Mega Store, sat in silence watching the game. Absolutely shocking to witness today. There is legitimately more atmosphere at Aldershot than Anfield (hence the attempts to get that song going).

Pathetic support - the worst at any big European stadium?
 
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