Mads Bech Sørensen - Signs to June 2023 (+1 yr option)

Kingston Bee

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Done fine so far - he wont bomb forward like Rico but it also means Dalsgaard has license to roam more. However I do worry that Norwich might expose him with Aarons and Buendia linking up so maybe stick Vitaly there with Norgaard coming into midfield is an option.
I think Janelt playing LB is a real option now that Norgaard has returned. We don't see Janelt in training but I feel he could play there without much trouble, no issue with Sorensen but he will be more mobile and has the engine to get forward. Not saying he will play LB every game but its horses for courses.
 

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I think Janelt playing LB is a real option now that Norgaard has returned. We don't see Janelt in training but I feel he could play there without much trouble, no issue with Sorensen but he will be more mobile and has the engine to get forward. Not saying he will play LB every game but its horses for courses.
he's played their in his career. I think you could put him anywhere and he'd have a good go and do a decent job and leave a few oppo in his wake.
 
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Mr Cynical

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he's played their in his career. I think you could put him anywhere and he'd have a good go and do a decent job and leave a few oppo in his wake.
personally think he’d end up picking up a lot of cards, not the quickest in changing direction and prone to diving in.. would be better distribution wise with that glorious left peg but I think he’d struggle as much as anyone with a quick and clever winger
 

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I thought Mads was pretty solid, yes there will be occasions where a top, pacy winger will expose him but I’d say he’s the best option so let him get on with it. Plus I like the 4 x 6 footers across the back as aerially it make a difference.... and his long throws are increasingly threatening.

An injury to Henry was always going to weaken us, its not realistic to expect to have a like for like replacement for a player of that quality and Mads brings qualities that another ‘traditional‘ left back replacement may nto.
 

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personally think he’d end up picking up a lot of cards, not the quickest in changing direction and prone to diving in.. would be better distribution wise with that glorious left peg but I think he’d struggle as much as anyone with a quick and clever winger
i'm not saying he should play there but he could - I think he'd be a bit wasted as he's so instrumental through the middle - but if needed to he's played there before. I think he'd do very well there if called upon however, not sure I agree that he's slow in the way he turns, there's a difference to how he receives a ball, shields, scans and turns when playing CDM versus at left back. I also don't think he lunges in on the regular?
 
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i'm not saying he should play there but he could - I think he'd be a bit wasted as he's so instrumental through the middle - but if needed to he's played there before. I think he'd do very well there if called upon however, not sure I agree that he's slow in the way he turns, there's a difference to how he receives a ball, shields, scans and turns when playing CDM versus at left back. I also don't think he lunges in on the regular?
He has got quite a big turning circle! Gives me the willies when he does it under pressure at DM as it feels a bit ponderous at times (probably because he favours his left so much) but he does generally seem to get away with it. I just think there's not a lot in it defensively between him and Mads and Mads is probably more used to playing that side of the defence. He often ended up in a LB position even with Henry playing as Henry would usually be well up the pitch. Janelt may have played there before but it's literally only 3 times in his entire career.. It may be a good option though if we're expecting to be on the front foot for a lot of the game as then we can have 2 attacking full backs but in general I'd back Mads for the role, just perhaps needs a little more help from the wide attacker if facing a tricky opponent.
 

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It’s interesting that it’s only in recent few years that anyone has focussed on which side a Centre back plays and always assumed interchangeable. May well have to do with game played now and emphasis on playing out from the back as opposed to simply defending.
Back in the day, most players, particularly centre halves as they were called then, were two footed - even parks footballers. That made them automatically interchangeable.

Perhaps if coaches had time to coach they could concentrate on making all players two footed. It would make the game far quicker - and more efficient (and, incidentally, justify the high wages!)
 
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I think he's had an amazing season in a defence which for me hasn't hit the heights of last year.He's not a left back but if we primarily want him to defend and stop wingers beating him and crosses coming in he's doing just as well as Henrik on the other side.It makes the choice of left winger important as the pair need to work together so Tariq and Sergi have to concentrate on not exposing him two against one.OK MBS can't afford to gamble on making forward runs like Rico but few can.Reading the Brian Reimer interview it would seem playing three at the back is close to the Frank/Reimer ethos so maybe we'd try this rather than try and slot in an another player out of position at left back.
 

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Back in the day, most players, particularly centre halves as they were called then, were two footed - even parks footballers. That made them automatically interchangeable.

Perhaps if coaches had time to coach they could concentrate on making all players two footed. It would make the game far quicker - and more efficient (and, incidentally, justify the high wages!)
Back in the day their job was to hoof it upfield so it didn’t really make much difference which foot they preferred to do it with as long as they could give it a bit of oomph.
 

Andrelux

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You're obviously far too young to remember Ron Greenwood, Mel Scott, Herman Hreidersson and Jug Ears among others
Johnny Buttigieg was the first centre back I remember who actually looked comfortable on the ball. Mind you, I was already in my late 20s, and I'd seen a few by then.
 

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Winston is our best defender, no time for sentiment
This will only be an issue if both are fit. Fingers crossed but just look at their recent injury records. I'd be happy if either one of them were fit enough to partner Ethan to the end of the season
 
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Well I thought he did very well. Solid and used the ball well, very good defending near the end when at CB to deny Pukki an opportunity. Seems to have become a whipping boy without any justification at all as far as I can see.
 

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I like him as a CB but he is no way near level of a fullback we need. No running forward. Scared when pressed. Passes were always square or behind or route 1. Worst game I've seen him have for ages.
 

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I like him as a CB but he is no way near level of a fullback we need. No running forward. Scared when pressed. Passes were always square or behind or route 1. Worst game I've seen him have for ages.
The lad did OK, he’s not a left back but he still did OK today. The big error that led to their goal didn’t come from him.
 
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I like him as a CB but he is no way near level of a fullback we need. No running forward. Scared when pressed. Passes were always square or behind or route 1. Worst game I've seen him have for ages.
Clearly we watched different games....
 
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Mr Cynical

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He was up against the best right side in the Championship, give him a break ffs.
and managed it really well.. so many people saying we'd get slaughtered down that side and when we don't they complain we weren't marauding up the other end of the pitch! It seems we don't want Raya taking risks by passing it around at the back but we're happy for Sorenson (who's not got Henry's pace) to get stuck up the other end of the pitch whilst Aarons and Buendia storm up our exposed left flank... bizarre.. Dalsgaard got forward plenty on the other side. The reason we lost tonight was not because Sorenson didn't get forward enough..
 

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He was up against the best right side in the Championship, give him a break ffs.
Yes I agree. It’s harsh to criticise him considering he’s deputising for Henry and playing out of position. Besides which, he didn’t do a bad job. Apparently our deputy left back Thompson has been sent away on a player improvement loan.
 

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and managed it really well.. so many people saying we'd get slaughtered down that side and when we don't they complain we weren't marauding up the other end of the pitch! It seems we don't want Raya taking risks by passing it around at the back but we're happy for Sorenson (who's not got Henry's pace) to get stuck up the other end of the pitch whilst Aarons and Buendia storm up our exposed left flank... bizarre.. Dalsgaard got forward plenty on the other side. The reason we lost tonight was not because Sorenson didn't get forward enough..
Indeed, the sky commentators mentioned it too but they didn't seem to notice that the balance had shifted and Henrik was getting forward on the other side which wasn't happening so much when Rico was playing.
 

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MBS did well BUT not having an attacking threat from the back is such a big miss. The energy goes out of every attack as Pinnock passes to MBS who passes it back to Pinnock who..... yes you have guessed it. No criticism but I really think we should play Roeslev and try to build momentum.
 

jlove

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... or we could just focus effort on deep attacking from our right where Dalsgaard and Mbeumo are building a good understanding.
 

Col T

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I think some are being very harsh on Mads, if not for Toney's 25 goals or the arrival of the unjnown Janelt Mads would be close to making player of the season so far, certainly most improved...
Did anyone think he'd be capable of playing in our regular back four and look assured a year ago?
He's not a natural left back and certainly no Rico but he's doing ok..
 

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He did OK, not sure what all the fuss is about. They never got around the back, and his distribution was OK. Was never going to get forward like Rico but we knew that. Rico just happens to be the best LB in the championship, but Mads was solid, nothing more to say.
 

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He was solid enough last night and defended well which is his first job. His distribution was not good last night in my opinion, looked panicked at times which is understandable but very much a safety first attitude when on the ball so an area he could improve on whilst playing left back.
 

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I thought he was good last night and look confident in possession, he has done very well at LB the last two games.
 

shouldbee

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He's a pretty solid centre back but he ain't no full back. Roeselev looked more comfortable and did get to the byline a few times so he would IMO be ahead of Mads Bech.
Unfortunately Thomas has been given a difficult job and it's another case of square pegs !
 
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Mr Cynical

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MBS did well BUT not having an attacking threat from the back is such a big miss. The energy goes out of every attack as Pinnock passes to MBS who passes it back to Pinnock who..... yes you have guessed it. No criticism but I really think we should play Roeslev and try to build momentum.
we have got an attacking threat from the back, it’s just that it’s on the other side now where Dalsgaard was getting forward loads. His delivery is arguably better than Henry’s and he seems to be getting more out of mbeumo too so I don’t think we’re losing too much. If Henry was playing then Dalsgaard would be the one staying deep..
 

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He's a pretty solid centre back but he ain't no full back. Roeselev looked more comfortable and did get to the byline a few times so he would IMO be ahead of Mads Bech.
Unfortunately Thomas has been given a difficult job and it's another case of square pegs !
With 6 senior players either inured or recovering from injury we are bound to be making do. We are trying to operate on a manageable budget and in the current climate I would say we have had a very good season whilst not pushing expenditure too far. We should be pleased that our club is in such good hands.
 

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Well I thought he did very well. Solid and used the ball well, very good defending near the end when at CB to deny Pukki an opportunity. Seems to have become a whipping boy without any justification at all as far as I can see.
Because he's not very good.

I can't get my head around some of the posts on here saying he's been our player of the season, or that he's been playing well, I can only assume we're doing it through a view finder where so little is expected of him that if he makes it through the game without doing an actual poo on the pitch we'll clap him.

For those saying that he's defensively sound and isn't costing us, have a look at the Norwich goal again. Buendia drives at Mads who should be showing him outside, he should be a yard further in so that Buendia hasn't got the option to cut inside on his stronger foot, but his body positioning is wrong, whether that's a mistake or it was a deliberate ploy by Mads because he wouldn't have the acceleration to stop Buendia burning him on the outside it was massively costly.

And as for his distribution? Well, I posted earlier that his lack of progressive passing was a problem and rather helpfully a thread on twitter popped up comparing him to the other CB's in the division aged 24 and under and he doesn't come up favourably at all.

First up his defending. Solid defender? Aye right.
20210305_044538.jpg
As you can see, not only does he have the lowest defensive duel success in the division, he also attempts a low amount.

You'd think for a big bloke he'd at least be an asset in the air though right?
20210305_044715.jpg
Well he's actually got the third lowest in the division for that aswell, winning about half of his 5 attempted headers per game. He's nearly 6ft 3 ffs!

You'd hope his lack of attempted defensive duels, and lack of attempted headers would mean he's doing well off the ball, getting interceptions, blocking shots maybe.

20210305_044932.jpg

Sadly not, again he comes up as one of the worst in the division for that aswell.

Now onto his distribution, playing in a team with one of the leagues most attacking left backs on his outside, in a team that dominates possession you'd expect his distribution skills to at least be up there.
20210305_045116.jpg

Nope, still in that bottom box, I was baffled to see some posters earlier say that he was more progressive with his passing than our other centre back options.

20210305_045318.jpg

Now here's the one thing he does succeed at, passes per 90 and the amount he completes, in isolation this is a good stat, in conjunction with his progressive passes though it shows (and it won't be a surprise to anyone who's watched us) that his passes are going either back to Raya, or square to the other centre back in the hope they'll do something. There used to be a few accounts who done pass maps but sadly they haven't done one in a while, the most recent being the away game against Swansea where we had the lions share of possession.
20210305_050335.jpg

And MBS is the least threatening outfield player, despite Pinnock playing on his weaker side.


MBS hasn't became a whipping boy for no reason, he's gotten allot of stick because quite simply he's not particularly good, visually I thought that was obvious but the data backs it up pretty conclusively.

I'll back any player who pulls on the Brentford shirt but he needs to improve a massive amount.
 

shaun

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Because he's not very good.

I can't get my head around some of the posts on here saying he's been our player of the season, or that he's been playing well, I can only assume we're doing it through a view finder where so little is expected of him that if he makes it through the game without doing an actual poo on the pitch we'll clap him.

For those saying that he's defensively sound and isn't costing us, have a look at the Norwich goal again. Buendia drives at Mads who should be showing him outside, he should be a yard further in so that Buendia hasn't got the option to cut inside on his stronger foot, but his body positioning is wrong, whether that's a mistake or it was a deliberate ploy by Mads because he wouldn't have the acceleration to stop Buendia burning him on the outside it was massively costly.

And as for his distribution? Well, I posted earlier that his lack of progressive passing was a problem and rather helpfully a thread on twitter popped up comparing him to the other CB's in the division aged 24 and under and he doesn't come up favourably at all.

First up his defending. Solid defender? Aye right.
View attachment 24386
As you can see, not only does he have the lowest defensive duel success in the division, he also attempts a low amount.

You'd think for a big bloke he'd at least be an asset in the air though right?
View attachment 24387
Well he's actually got the third lowest in the division for that aswell, winning about half of his 5 attempted headers per game. He's nearly 6ft 3 ffs!

You'd hope his lack of attempted defensive duels, and lack of attempted headers would mean he's doing well off the ball, getting interceptions, blocking shots maybe.

View attachment 24388

Sadly not, again he comes up as one of the worst in the division for that aswell.

Now onto his distribution, playing in a team with one of the leagues most attacking left backs on his outside, in a team that dominates possession you'd expect his distribution skills to at least be up there.
View attachment 24389

Nope, still in that bottom box, I was baffled to see some posters earlier say that he was more progressive with his passing than our other centre back options.

View attachment 24390

Now here's the one thing he does succeed at, passes per 90 and the amount he completes, in isolation this is a good stat, in conjunction with his progressive passes though it shows (and it won't be a surprise to anyone who's watched us) that his passes are going either back to Raya, or square to the other centre back in the hope they'll do something. There used to be a few accounts who done pass maps but sadly they haven't done one in a while, the most recent being the away game against Swansea where we had the lions share of possession.
View attachment 24391

And MBS is the least threatening outfield player, despite Pinnock playing on his weaker side.


MBS hasn't became a whipping boy for no reason, he's gotten allot of stick because quite simply he's not particularly good, visually I thought that was obvious but the data backs it up pretty conclusively.

I'll back any player who pulls on the Brentford shirt but he needs to improve a massive amount.
 

shaun

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Interesting analysis. Couple of thoughts....good players don’t get necessarily dragged into duels because they read the game well, also does a centre half who plays forward all the time but has a low success rate (Eg team patterns are to get the ball forward from front to back quickly vs a possession based team which by definition will play backwards and square more often) of passing to a team mate get captured? Don’t get me wrong, I am not a particular fan of MBS but he is fit ns improved a lot in the last 18 months, but is the analysis above a completely accurate reflection?
 
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jlove

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As these data are a sub-set filtered by age, it would be informative to see it filtered by number of Championship games played instead.
 

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Because he's not very good.

I can't get my head around some of the posts on here saying he's been our player of the season, or that he's been playing well, I can only assume we're doing it through a view finder where so little is expected of him that if he makes it through the game without doing an actual poo on the pitch we'll clap him.

For those saying that he's defensively sound and isn't costing us, have a look at the Norwich goal again. Buendia drives at Mads who should be showing him outside, he should be a yard further in so that Buendia hasn't got the option to cut inside on his stronger foot, but his body positioning is wrong, whether that's a mistake or it was a deliberate ploy by Mads because he wouldn't have the acceleration to stop Buendia burning him on the outside it was massively costly.

And as for his distribution? Well, I posted earlier that his lack of progressive passing was a problem and rather helpfully a thread on twitter popped up comparing him to the other CB's in the division aged 24 and under and he doesn't come up favourably at all.

First up his defending. Solid defender? Aye right.
View attachment 24386
As you can see, not only does he have the lowest defensive duel success in the division, he also attempts a low amount.

You'd think for a big bloke he'd at least be an asset in the air though right?
View attachment 24387
Well he's actually got the third lowest in the division for that aswell, winning about half of his 5 attempted headers per game. He's nearly 6ft 3 ffs!

You'd hope his lack of attempted defensive duels, and lack of attempted headers would mean he's doing well off the ball, getting interceptions, blocking shots maybe.

View attachment 24388

Sadly not, again he comes up as one of the worst in the division for that aswell.

Now onto his distribution, playing in a team with one of the leagues most attacking left backs on his outside, in a team that dominates possession you'd expect his distribution skills to at least be up there.
View attachment 24389

Nope, still in that bottom box, I was baffled to see some posters earlier say that he was more progressive with his passing than our other centre back options.

View attachment 24390

Now here's the one thing he does succeed at, passes per 90 and the amount he completes, in isolation this is a good stat, in conjunction with his progressive passes though it shows (and it won't be a surprise to anyone who's watched us) that his passes are going either back to Raya, or square to the other centre back in the hope they'll do something. There used to be a few accounts who done pass maps but sadly they haven't done one in a while, the most recent being the away game against Swansea where we had the lions share of possession.
View attachment 24391

And MBS is the least threatening outfield player, despite Pinnock playing on his weaker side.


MBS hasn't became a whipping boy for no reason, he's gotten allot of stick because quite simply he's not particularly good, visually I thought that was obvious but the data backs it up pretty conclusively.

I'll back any player who pulls on the Brentford shirt but he needs to improve a massive amount.
Can you pull up a stat on mistakes leading to goals please ;) I think anyone who watches him is aware of his limitations in terms of passing but for someone who was probably 5th choice last season he has done extremely well after he was plunged in at the deep end this season and has been forced to play far more games than anyone was expecting. The Norwich goal could be blamed on at least 4 players if you wanted to - Sergi for the crap pass and getting shrugged off in the first instance, Mads for showing him inside, Janelt for not going out to make a tackle on the edge of the box or Reid for turning his back on the shot.
 

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All our players are rubbish which is why we’re doomed in this relegation battle.
 

Gparsfan

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Interesting analysis. Couple of thoughts....good players don’t get necessarily dragged into duels because they read the game well, also does a centre half who plays forward all the time but has a low success rate (Eg team patterns are to get the ball forward from front to back quickly vs a possession based team which by definition will play backwards and square more often) of passing to a team mate get captured? Don’t get me wrong, I am not a particular fan of MBS but he is fit ns improved a lot in the last 18 months, but is the analysis above a completely accurate reflection?
I get what you're saying with the first part and I agree, defending isn't all blood and guts, throwing yourself into tackles etc, hence why there's a table showing his off the ball defending per se, reading the game with interceptions. And he still doesn't reflect well on that.

I'd say Chris Mepham plays in quite a possession based team and his passing metrics are superb, you really need to use the two tables in conjuction with each other, for example if you saw just the second passing graph you'd think MBS was the best passer in the league due to his accuracy, realistically though the other graph shows they're passes of no consequence.

As these data are a sub-set filtered by age, it would be informative to see it filtered by number of Championship games played instead.
All players in that are under 24 and have played 900 minutes.

Can you pull up a stat on mistakes leading to goals please ;) I think anyone who watches him is aware of his limitations in terms of passing but for someone who was probably 5th choice last season he has done extremely well after he was plunged in at the deep end this season and has been forced to play far more games than anyone was expecting. The Norwich goal could be blamed on at least 4 players if you wanted to - Sergi for the crap pass and getting shrugged off in the first instance, Mads for showing him inside, Janelt for not going out to make a tackle on the edge of the box or Reid for turning his back on the shot.
There isn't really a stat for mistakes leading to goals because it's a very subjective stat, for example I'd say that the person most at fault is MBS, once Buendia gets going it is very hard to stop him, think of him as a btech Robben, once he is inside and driving it causes panic and you're then asking allot of your central players, the onus is to stop it getting to that stage where you're hoping for Reid to put that block in etc.

Your first part of the post is the crux of it for me, MBS isn't actually playing well in the context of a team wanting to get promoted, he's doing well in the context he was 5th choice and we didn't want to have to play him. And I'd agree with that, he hasn't been horrendous. However if our injury list was to clear up I'd have him right down the pecking order.
 

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I get what you're saying with the first part and I agree, defending isn't all blood and guts, throwing yourself into tackles etc, hence why there's a table showing his off the ball defending per se, reading the game with interceptions. And he still doesn't reflect well on that.

I'd say Chris Mepham plays in quite a possession based team and his passing metrics are superb, you really need to use the two tables in conjuction with each other, for example if you saw just the second passing graph you'd think MBS was the best passer in the league due to his accuracy, realistically though the other graph shows they're passes of no consequence.



All players in that are under 24 and have played 900 minutes.



There isn't really a stat for mistakes leading to goals because it's a very subjective stat, for example I'd say that the person most at fault is MBS, once Buendia gets going it is very hard to stop him, think of him as a btech Robben, once he is inside and driving it causes panic and you're then asking allot of your central players, the onus is to stop it getting to that stage where you're hoping for Reid to put that block in etc.

Your first part of the post is the crux of it for me, MBS isn't actually playing well in the context of a team wanting to get promoted, he's doing well in the context he was 5th choice and we didn't want to have to play him. And I'd agree with that, he hasn't been horrendous. However if our injury list was to clear up I'd have him right down the pecking order.
We are second after 34 games so he can't have been doing too badly? I agree that if PJ was fit he wouldn't be in the side but I judge a defensive player on clear mistakes leading to goals and Raya and Pinnock have made far more than him this season.
 

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We are second after 34 games so he can't have been doing too badly? I agree that if PJ was fit he wouldn't be in the side but I judge a defensive player on clear mistakes leading to goals and Raya and Pinnock have made far more than him this season.
Having a striker bag 25 goals by this stage of the season can fair hide a few deficiencies! We're not perfect, nor are we ever likely to be. However we can always improve.

You can judge players on something so simplistic as that all you like, however there's quite allot going on in football, we've improved season on season by looking at the underlying data within football and that data suggests that MBS is a weak link.

Failing that just watching the game would show that. To say that because we're second means that everything is fine would be as wrong as saying that if we were near the bottom everything is awful, there's shades in between.
 

BFC1997

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1v1 duels (on the ground or in the air) definitely aren't his particular strong suit, but he reads the game really, really well and so that does balance it off somewhat. Compare and contrast with a defender like Barbet who makes lots of very impressive-looking last ditch tackles. There's a reason why he's always diving in desperately, it's because he has half the defensive brain of MBS.

He does needs to become a more complete defender to fulfill any kind of PL ambition, for example he doesn't dominate aerially at set pieces the way he could, and his passing (although vastly improved) could still be more progressive.

At the end of the day though, it's impossible to be too critical. He began the season as 5th choice behind PJ, EP, CG, LR. If JJ hadn't left he'd have been 6th choice. Due to circumstances he has played 30 games and that includes a run to a League Cup semi-final and a 21 game league unbeatean run that finds us 2nd in the Championship.
 

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