Mathias Jensen

Mr Cynical

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So we created 13 chances between those theee Bees players listed in that table. I don’t remember us creating 13 chances #confused
we had loads of chances, got ourselves into great positions but in general final ball/decision making was poor, particularly from Henry/Canos
 

Mr Cynical

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Janelt and Frank in a midfield with him should allow him to flourish but yesterday he was played too deep and others around him were poor.
I think this is part of the problem with players like Jensen and Sawyers and even Marcondes to an extent. When the whole team is clicking they look like world beaters, they can pick out good postive runs off the ball with clever passes and get involved in quick one touch interplay to move the ball forward. When things aren't going so well however, the movement up front dries up, there are less runs to pick out and no-one's wanting to risk one touch play so they turn back and retain possession (slowing the game down), take too much time on the ball (caught in possession) and try to thread the ball through a needle to make things happen (giving the ball away). We desperately need a creative player in midfield at the moment because our wing backs aren't creating anything and the long ball to Toney is now getting mopped up too easily as defenders are more aware of Mbeumo's off the ball movement. Like them or not Jensen and Ghoddos bring something different to the party and we're going to need that if we're going to get out of this rut.
 

AB

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So we created 13 chances between those theee Bees players listed in that table. I don’t remember us creating 13 chances #confused
We had 19 shots on Saturday. My guess would be that the 13 chances they created would have been for those shots.
 

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There's nothing enigmatic about it. He creates more chances and produces more key passes / deliveries than anyone else in our team. It's there to see on the pitch and there in black and white in the numbers. Our finishing of these chances has been poor. Yet Jensen is the one being scapegoated.
So if Charlie Goode was taking those free kicks and corners would we be lauding him as our playmaker then?
 

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So if Charlie Goode was taking those free kicks and corners would we be lauding him as our playmaker then?
But Charlie Goode didn’t take them. That’s not part of his game.

MJ took them. It is part of his game. The stats and video evidence both show he was highly effective on Saturday.
 

shaun

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But Charlie Goode didn’t take them. That’s not part of his game.

MJ took them. It is part of his game. The stats and video evidence both show he was highly effective on Saturday.
It’s funny as from the few match reports, eg BBC that I looked at after with player scores, I don’t recall Jensen getting higher than a 6.5/ 10. They must have missed his Glenn Hoddlesque performance as well.
 

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It’s funny as from the few match reports, eg BBC that I looked at after with player scores, I don’t recall Jensen getting higher than a 6.5/ 10. They must have missed his Glenn Hoddlesque performance as well.
Whoscored gave him a 7.7, the second highest rating of any player on the pitch.
 

BFC1997

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Consistently Excellent? I don’t think Jensen would even be in the team if other players were fit….
Yes, his delivery has been consistently excellent.
FWIW I agree, maybe he wouldn't be a nailed on starter with everyone fit! Janelt, Baptiste, Dasilva, Onyeka, Bidstrup, Ghoddos all provide excellent competition if available. Doesn't mean that we ignore what Jensen brings to the table.
 

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We had 19 shots on Saturday. My guess would be that the 13 chances they created would have been for those shots.

My gripe is were they really chances. Taking a corner and a Brentford man heads it well wide when unlikely to score is that considered a chance? I don’t know just posing the question. I find these tables to be misleading.
 

AB

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My gripe is were they really chances. Taking a corner and a Brentford man heads it well wide when unlikely to score is that considered a chance? I don’t know just posing the question. I find these tables to be misleading.
7 on target, 6 of those second half. Not counting Mbeumo’s offside goal. Krul made 6 saves though so the 19 blocks and clearances are on top of the saved shots and the ones which went wide/high for a goal kick.
 

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My gripe is were they really chances. Taking a corner and a Brentford man heads it well wide when unlikely to score is that considered a chance? I don’t know just posing the question. I find these tables to be misleading.
Zanka scored one vs Leicester identical to one Pinnock glanced waywards in the first half.

Norgaard should have scored two from clear cut chances created from set pieces.

Canos had acres of space in the box from a corner and hit a very tame shot towards Krul.

There were many other 'promising situations' where the ball made it to a Brentford player in space in the box but the final finish/pass/header back across goal was poor and the "chance" went.

Absolutely no doubt that our finishing needs to improve. Whether it's just luck and confidence or something that can be coached, I'm not sure. But we aren't losing matches for the lack of chance creation.
 

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Zanka scored one vs Leicester identical to one Pinnock glanced waywards in the first half.

Norgaard should have scored two from clear cut chances created from set pieces.

Canos had acres of space in the box from a corner and hit a very tame shot towards Krul.

There were many other 'promising situations' where the ball made it to a Brentford player in space in the box but the final finish/pass/header back across goal was poor and the "chance" went.

Absolutely no doubt that our finishing needs to improve. Whether it's just luck and confidence or something that can be coached, I'm not sure. But we aren't losing matches for the lack of chance creation.
We lost on Saturday because Canos got totally roasted, followed by some of the most pathetic lack of tackling to close Normann down, which is quite uncharacteristic of our team.
Also, we lost because we didn't create that many clear-cut chances, but for some reason, some fans are critical of Jensen because he's not Terry Hurlock. It's just not his game. However, not one person has mentioned the game-saving tackle he made around the 89th minute, when he chased all the way back into the penalty area and got in a sliding challenge.
Jensen is a thoroughly decent player who will try to make passes that most players don't want to attempt. Therefore, he will give the ball away more than most, because he is trying something. He is a bit lightweight, but he puts in a shift to get interceptions, and the key to our play is to try to retain possession, something he does well when he can't see an opportunity to pass forward. No, he's not a Pirlo, Fernandes, or DeBruyne, but he is a highly competent player who tries his hardest to make something happen, and does enough to close opposition down despite being physically lightweight. That's good enough for me.
 

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We lost on Saturday because Canos got totally roasted, followed by some of the most pathetic lack of tackling to close Normann down, which is quite uncharacteristic of our team.
Also, we lost because we didn't create that many clear-cut chances, but for some reason, some fans are critical of Jensen because he's not Terry Hurlock. It's just not his game. However, not one person has mentioned the game-saving tackle he made around the 89th minute, when he chased all the way back into the penalty area and got in a sliding challenge.
Jensen is a thoroughly decent player who will try to make passes that most players don't want to attempt. Therefore, he will give the ball away more than most, because he is trying something. He is a bit lightweight, but he puts in a shift to get interceptions, and the key to our play is to try to retain possession, something he does well when he can't see an opportunity to pass forward. No, he's not a Pirlo, Fernandes, or DeBruyne, but he is a highly competent player who tries his hardest to make something happen, and does enough to close opposition down despite being physically lightweight. That's good enough for me.

Well observed and well argued!
 

NorthamptonBee

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We lost on Saturday because Canos got totally roasted, followed by some of the most pathetic lack of tackling to close Normann down, which is quite uncharacteristic of our team.
Also, we lost because we didn't create that many clear-cut chances, but for some reason, some fans are critical of Jensen because he's not Terry Hurlock. It's just not his game. However, not one person has mentioned the game-saving tackle he made around the 89th minute, when he chased all the way back into the penalty area and got in a sliding challenge.
Jensen is a thoroughly decent player who will try to make passes that most players don't want to attempt. Therefore, he will give the ball away more than most, because he is trying something. He is a bit lightweight, but he puts in a shift to get interceptions, and the key to our play is to try to retain possession, something he does well when he can't see an opportunity to pass forward. No, he's not a Pirlo, Fernandes, or DeBruyne, but he is a highly competent player who tries his hardest to make something happen, and does enough to close opposition down despite being physically lightweight. That's good enough for me.
Daniel, can you please find where anyone suggesting he doesn’t do enough going forward has even mentioned he should be more like Hurlock, naughty boy.
We are taking three touches whereas we were taking one or two a few weeks ago where our tempo was high, this suits Jensen as he likes to cut back and slow things down, chip into the box and up to you guys.
He’s currently an important cog with all the injuries, we just need more going forward but his tackling isn’t something to worry about.
 

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Bit worrying he's tested positive so soon after the match, but hoping it might be something picked up en route rather than in TW8.

Hope he can recover well.
 

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Daniel, can you please find where anyone suggesting he doesn’t do enough going forward has even mentioned he should be more like Hurlock, naughty boy.
We are taking three touches whereas we were taking one or two a few weeks ago where our tempo was high, this suits Jensen as he likes to cut back and slow things down, chip into the box and up to you guys.
He’s currently an important cog with all the injuries, we just need more going forward but his tackling isn’t something to worry about.
Matthew, there are plenty of posts going on about how lightweight he is, how he doesn't win headers, doesn't get his tackles in, etc. Can I get off the naughty step please?

I will agree, to an extent, that there are times when he can slow the play down. However, I think that it's a fallacy that he is responsible for bringing the pace of the team down, when I think that it's our direct approach that has meant we've played "quicker", and in recent games, our possession stats are higher because we've played against teams who don't dominate possession and allowed us to come at them a bit. So, considering that Norwich played defensively, our game will invariably slow down because of less gaps.

That said, what we lack is a midfielder who draws opposition out of possession. We all know JDS did that, feel confident that Baptiste is capable of doing this, but other than that, we don't have anyone else who can go past a player. So whether we played Jensen or almost whoever other than JDS or Baptiste, our game will be slower. In truth, I advocate Ghoddos to play as an attacking midfielder, because I think he's capable of doing something unpredictable that can open up defences, better than Jensen.
 
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Paul_T

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Tested positive at the airport, so it appears he may well have picked it up in London. Hope they're testing team mates.
 

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We lost on Saturday because Canos got totally roasted, followed by some of the most pathetic lack of tackling to close Normann down, which is quite uncharacteristic of our team.
Also, we lost because we didn't create that many clear-cut chances, but for some reason, some fans are critical of Jensen because he's not Terry Hurlock. It's just not his game. However, not one person has mentioned the game-saving tackle he made around the 89th minute, when he chased all the way back into the penalty area and got in a sliding challenge.
Jensen is a thoroughly decent player who will try to make passes that most players don't want to attempt. Therefore, he will give the ball away more than most, because he is trying something. He is a bit lightweight, but he puts in a shift to get interceptions, and the key to our play is to try to retain possession, something he does well when he can't see an opportunity to pass forward. No, he's not a Pirlo, Fernandes, or DeBruyne, but he is a highly competent player who tries his hardest to make something happen, and does enough to close opposition down despite being physically lightweight. That's good enough for me.
“Game-saving tackle”??? Did i miss something, did we draw 2-2?
 

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My gripe is were they really chances. Taking a corner and a Brentford man heads it well wide when unlikely to score is that considered a chance? I don’t know just posing the question. I find these tables to be misleading.
Spot on. Stats have a role but the eyes have it. Look no further than the stats which McEachran fans quoted to demonstrate how good he was at tackling. I think most of us know a dud when we see one. All those shots on goal can be used to pretend we actually created more of a threat than we did on saturday when we hardly worked their keeper.Jensen is another case in point. To be fair he wasn't bad on Saturday but he isn't what we need and the video analysis of his game that was posted nailed it. l'm sure l'll get some flak for this post but please no more stats.
 

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Spot on. Stats have a role but the eyes have it. Look no further than the stats which McEachran fans quoted to demonstrate how good he was at tackling. I think most of us know a dud when we see one. All those shots on goal can be used to pretend we actually created more of a threat than we did on saturday when we hardly worked their keeper.Jensen is another case in point. To be fair he wasn't bad on Saturday but he isn't what we need and the video analysis of his game that was posted nailed it. l'm sure l'll get some flak for this post but please no more stats.
Not from me you wont.
 

Mr Cynical

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Daniel, can you please find where anyone suggesting he doesn’t do enough going forward has even mentioned he should be more like Hurlock, naughty boy.
We are taking three touches whereas we were taking one or two a few weeks ago where our tempo was high, this suits Jensen as he likes to cut back and slow things down, chip into the box and up to you guys.
He’s currently an important cog with all the injuries, we just need more going forward but his tackling isn’t something to worry about.
I think 'taking one touch' is a bit generous when that basically means booting it up the pitch! 😂
 

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Spot on. Stats have a role but the eyes have it. Look no further than the stats which McEachran fans quoted to demonstrate how good he was at tackling. I think most of us know a dud when we see one. All those shots on goal can be used to pretend we actually created more of a threat than we did on saturday when we hardly worked their keeper.Jensen is another case in point. To be fair he wasn't bad on Saturday but he isn't what we need and the video analysis of his game that was posted nailed it. l'm sure l'll get some flak for this post but please no more stats.
Are you comparing Jensen to McEachran? 🤦‍♂️
 

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Are you comparing Jensen to McEachran? 🤦‍♂️
MJ played 45 times in the league in 2020/2021 which was our most successful league season since the 1930’s. He played all 3 of the play off games

For the last 2 weeks, he’s been the player who has created the most chances for BFC and in 2021 he’s been capped 11 times by Denmark (FIFA ranked 10th in the world).

But apparently the eyes have it as they did for McEachran.

We‘re very rapidly heading through the looking glass.
 

IslandBee

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However, not one person has mentioned the game-saving tackle he made around the 89th minute, when he chased all the way back into the penalty area and got in a sliding challenge.

See post 2443 above.
 

I'll Bee Damned

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Hopefully kicks the virus without too much grief.

Silver lining, he gets a rest and stays injury free instead of playing for Denmark.
If he does it will be too slowly after 3 touches and backwards probably :fishing: ;)

Seriously, hope no I’ll affects and get well soon young Mathias
 

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No. I'm illustrating how stats can be used to make a player's impact look better than it is and a performance look better than it was. Fortunately the club uses eyes too.
If stats can be used to make a player's impact look better why have you in turn referenced one bit of edited video analysis against Leics to 'nail it' regarding MJ?

At least stats use a greater spread of performance data to judge a players performance levels in a team dynamic.
 

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If stats can be used to make a player's impact look better why have you in turn referenced one bit of edited video analysis against Leics to 'nail it' regarding MJ?

At least stats use a greater spread of performance data to judge much and we were poor in the laa players performance levels in a team dynamic.
Your eyes show you the reality on the video and the commentary reflects what a lot of us think.. It demonstrates that stats need context and for all the quoting of stats on this forum we know the club watches players extensively and that's what clinches a deal.Stats need context. I can understand why Thomas referred to our 29? shots on Saturday as he wants to keep morale high but the reality was that we didn't work the keeper that much after the substitutions and for the whole match.Overall we were poor and Thomas is facing a big challenge for a number of reasons.
For those of us who remember Simon Ratcliffe in mid he was great at getting his body in front of the attackers and protecting the centre of our defence. Not necessarily that much tackling and his stats would be low but his contribution was huge.BTW we could do with a bit of that now as there's a gap outside our box when we defend but Thomas knows that because its as clear as a bell..
 

jlove

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All the relevant personnel at the club will have read and discussed the chapters and exercises in Thinking, Fast and Slow to allow their brains to interpret what their eyes see, though.
 

AB

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Your eyes show you the reality on the video and the commentary reflects what a lot of us think.. It demonstrates that stats need context and for all the quoting of stats on this forum we know the club watches players extensively and that's what clinches a deal.Stats need context. I can understand why Thomas referred to our 29? shots on Saturday as he wants to keep morale high but the reality was that we didn't work the keeper that much after the substitutions and for the whole match.Overall we were poor and Thomas is facing a big challenge for a number of reasons.
For those of us who remember Simon Ratcliffe in mid he was great at getting his body in front of the attackers and protecting the centre of our defence. Not necessarily that much tackling and his stats would be low but his contribution was huge.BTW we could do with a bit of that now as there's a gap outside our box when we defend but Thomas knows that because its as clear as a bell..
That job shielding the defence is Norgaard’s. Combining it with moving us up from defence with passing triangles involves the CBs passing between them once he’s won it back and then spotting the opening to move the ball back up. Jensen is the more forward link player to hand over to in the next phase. Against Norwich in the first half CN didn’t do his bit so well, partly because for the first time this season Norwich showed a lot more fight in prressing him and the defence and Janelt recovering from injury was also not fully on it. Jensen did in fact come deep to help out but having all three midfielders pressed back like that stifled forward play and made us go longer. We looked better second half when they sat back a little or were pushed back by CN winning more of those challenges/shielding better. Which gave Jensen and Ghoddos more of the ball higher up.
 

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Not sure how he was picked at airport unless he was having a paid PCR test there. I would assume the club are doing twice weekly lateral flow tests
 

beebopalula

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That job shielding the defence is Norgaard’s. Combining it with moving us up from defence with passing triangles involves the CBs passing between them once he’s won it back and then spotting the opening to move the ball back up. Jensen is the more forward link player to hand over to in the next phase. Against Norwich in the first half CN didn’t do his bit so well, partly because for the first time this season Norwich showed a lot more fight in prressing him and the defence and Janelt recovering from injury was also not fully on it. Jensen did in fact come deep to help out but having all three midfielders pressed back like that stifled forward play and made us go longer. We looked better second half when they sat back a little or were pushed back by CN winning more of those challenges/shielding better. Which gave Jensen and Ghoddos more of the ball higher up.
I agree that CN and Vitali weren't at it but l expect Jensen to contribute to defending as well. IMO all mid players have a defensive role.We will have to agree to disagree on this one. My main concern is that we are potentially paddling in sh*t now and in the near future for a number of reasons and Thomas has got his hands full.
 

beebopalula

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If stats can be used to make a player's impact look better why have you in turn referenced one bit of edited video analysis against Leics to 'nail it' regarding MJ?

At least stats use a greater spread of performance data to judge a players performance levels in a team dynamic.
Have you seen the video? It's a bit of a slog but its worth it.
 

Guildford Bee

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Not sure how he was picked at airport unless he was having a paid PCR test there. I would assume the club are doing twice weekly lateral flow tests

Presumably he had to do a test on arrival at Copenhagen…
 
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