New Ground Phenomena

vcmazz

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New ground and better facilities = progression and success right? Well not always. So why is it that some clubs' status improves beyond all recognition when they build a new stadium while others seem to make no progress at all, or even take steps backwards in some cases? And what steps/precautions do we need to take to make sure that we fall in to the former camp when we move to Susan?

For what it's worth, here's how I view the change in status of clubs that have moved to new stadiums in recent years. Some are borderline and you may not agree. I've ignored silly tinpot grounds (e.g. Colchester, Oxford, Doncaster etc.) which I consider to be more to do with survival than prosperity.

IMPROVED STATUS

Manchester City, Swansea, Stoke, Sunderland, Reading, Wigan, Cardiff, Hull, Brighton, Bolton

NO (OR VERY LITTLE) IMPROVEMENT IN STATUS

Arsenal, Southampton, Leicester, Middlesbrough, Millwall, Derby, Huddersfield, MK Dons, Coventry and of course, Darlington.
 

ladbroke

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How can you add Coventry but ignore Doncaster..
Also Southampton were on way down before they moved.. I would say its improved.
 

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it's also hard to improve from where Arsenal were.
 
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vcmazz

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How can you add Coventry but ignore Doncaster..
Also Southampton were on way down before they moved.. I would say its improved.
Just checked Doncaster's ground and it's better than I'd realised so I'll stick them in the top catagory - defo inproved status since Belle View. Southampton however, are pretty much in exactly the same place they were in when they left The Dell. And they've been on a little trip to Oblivion-On-Sea in the meantime. New stadium didn't improve their prestige in my opinion :shrug:.
 
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vcmazz

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it's also hard to improve from where Arsenal were.
Yes but they've got worse. That is the point. Except that it isn't. Regardless of whether or not you agree with where I've plonked the teams in my list, what do WE have to do to make sure we end up in the top one and that it doesn't all go Pete? :fishing:.
 

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Just checked Doncaster's ground and it's better than I'd realised so I'll stick them in the top catagory - defo inproved status since Belle View. Southampton however, are pretty much in exactly the same place they were in when they left The Dell. And they've been on a little trip to Oblivion-On-Sea in the meantime. New stadium didn't improve their prestige in my opinion :shrug:.
Belle Vue
 

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Yes but they've got worse. That is the point. Except that it isn't. Regardless of whether or not you agree with where I've plonked the teams in my list, what do WE have to do to make sure we end up in the top one and that it doesn't all go Pete? :fishing:.
Arsenal have gone from where to where then? What's the criteria? Improve a league?
 
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vcmazz

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Arsenal have gone from where to where then? What's the criteria? Improve a league?
Arsenal are great. Well done Arsenal. Sorry to have doubted the fact that you're just as good, if not better than you were when you used to play at Highbury. Now. Can we please concerntrate on the question? Why do some clubs fail to improve when they move in to a new stadium and what do we need to do to make sure our move is a success? :banghead:
 

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Arsenal are great. Well done Arsenal. Sorry to have doubted the fact that you're just as good, if not better than you were when you used to play at Highbury. Now. Can we please concerntrate on the question? Why do some clubs fail to improve when they move in to a new stadium and what do we need to do to make sure our move is a success? :banghead:
How many clubs do fail though? If you're counting Arsenal then we can't trust you with the rest of the analysis :hat:
 

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I would say that all of the clubs in the "no improvement" category are better off, even if the potential hasn't yet matured into "status". The obvious exception is Darlo, whose owner was a safe-breaking egomaniac with no sense of proportion...
 

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Cardiff have been consistently finishing in the Championship playoffs since they moved, they made the League Cup final last season and they're currently ten points clear at the top.
 
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Arsenal have gone from where to where then? What's the criteria? Improve a league?
How many clubs do fail though? If you're counting Arsenal then we can't trust you with the rest of the analysis :hat:
OK forget the actual point. Don't care about that anymore. Let's talk about Arsenal. Who, during their last 10 seasons at Highbury, won the league 3 times and were title contenders every year. Then they moved to Emirates, where they immediately became a club who will never win the title again, but might, if all goes well, scrape in to Europe. This was the basis upon which my decision to downgrade their status was formed. How can we be sure that Susan won't turn us in to another Arsenal? :mad2:
 
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Cardiff have been consistently finishing in the Championship playoffs since they moved, they made the League Cup final last season and they're currently ten points clear at the top.
Yes. Yes they have. :yes:
 
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vcmazz

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I would say that all of the clubs in the "no improvement" category are better off, even if the potential hasn't yet matured into "status". The obvious exception is Darlo, whose owner was a safe-breaking egomaniac with no sense of proportion...
Coventry and Derby? :suspect:
 

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Coventry and Derby? :suspect:
Coventry may be another exception - I always really liked Highfield Road.

Derby, though, averaged less than 18,000 in the Premier League in their last season at the Baseball Ground, which immediately jumped to over 29,000 in their first season at Pride Park.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/derby-county/zuschauerzahlen/verein_22.html

It's fallen away a bit recently, but they are second only to Brighton in the Championship in 2012/13:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance/_/league/eng.2/english-league-championship?cc=5739
 
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Derby, though, averaged less than 18,000 in the Premier League in their last season at the Baseball Ground, which immediately jumped to over 29,000 in their first season at Pride Park.
Yes but my point is, they're skint and haven't been able to afford the players they need to compete. So why hasn't Pride Park/Ricoh - whatever, been a cash cow and what can we learn from this to take with us to Susan?
 

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Yes but my point is, they're skint and haven't been able to afford the players they need to compete. So why hasn't Pride Park/Ricoh - whatever, been a cash cow and what can we learn from this to take with us to Susan?
Don't build Susan in Derby or Coventry as they are sh*t holes.
 

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OK forget the actual point. Don't care about that anymore. Let's talk about Arsenal. Who, during their last 10 seasons at Highbury, won the league 3 times and were title contenders every year. Then they moved to Emirates, where they immediately became a club who will never win the title again, but might, if all goes well, scrape in to Europe. This was the basis upon which my decision to downgrade their status was formed. How can we be sure that Susan won't turn us in to another Arsenal? :mad2:
In their last four seasons at Highbury they finished 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 4th

What would it take for you to state that the move to the new Stadium was a success? Because that's a record that's hard to have a "Improved Status".
 
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In their last four seasons at Highbury they finished 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 4th

What would it take for you to state that the move to the new Stadium was a success? Because that's a record that's hard to have a "Improved Status".
Very hard to improve your status from there I agree. But they haven't maintained it have they? Spent all their money on armchairs and are no longer title contenders :shrug:.
 
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This really is interesting stuff.

:pop: :pop:
Yes. So far the best we can come up with to assure our prosperous future, is to avoid relocation to the midlands. I blame myself :yes:. I have broken my own golden rule of never being serious on the GPG. :banghead:
 

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Very hard to improve your status from there I agree. But they haven't maintained it have they? Spent all their money on armchairs and are no longer title contenders :shrug:.
In the four completed seasons after moving to the Emirates they have not finished lower than their position obtained at their last season at Highbury. :shrug:
 

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In the four completed seasons after moving to the Emirates they have not finished lower than their position obtained at their last season at Highbury. :shrug:
So is that what they put in the emirates trophy cabinet???
 

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Arsenal fans are loving all that success they are having.

But seriously, I think lots of the teams mentioned in both lists have had plenty of benefit, even if it hasn't materialised in on-field success. You put MK Dons in category 2, when realistically what sort of dire situation would they be in without their ground?

If we can move to Lionel Road, with additional non matchday related revenue and debt-free, that justifies the move 100%. Even if we aren't automatically scrapping at the business end of the championship :shrug:

We are going to be fine. My more pressing concern is: what are they going to name the ground? 'Lionel Road' is just about acceptable, 'Brentford Community Stadium' is well naff. Can we not do a la Millwall and have New Griffin Park?
 

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But seriously, I think lots of the teams mentioned in both lists have had plenty of benefit, even if it hasn't materialised in on-field success. You put MK Dons in category 2, when realistically what sort of dire situation would they be in without their ground?
Indeed, another absolutely nonsensical assessment.
 
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vcmazz

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Indeed, another absolutely nonsensical assessment.
Not according to Pete ****erman who was quoted before the start of the season as saying, "Failure isn't an option this season. sh*t or bust". :pop:
 

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