Our Form Away From Home.

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JCMcBee

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...it's just not happening....reasons?....and solutions?.
 

Doovster

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...it's just not happening....reasons?....and solutions?.

Just not being clinical enough. Simple as. Stoke should've won. Villa, despite Villa having better of opening 60 minutes we still created much better chances. Blackburn, despite being ropey still created more than they did. Tonight, should have been at least 2 up before they score.

Not much wrong really just need to find the ruthlessness away from home.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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...it's just not happening....reasons?....and solutions?.

You beat me to this thread. I was going to readdress the fundamentals of home v away. Crowd? Surface? Familiarity? Pitch size? Why the difference? Why could we not do tonight what we tried to do, what we routinely do at GP? Because we weren't far off it first half... but it wouldn't just click. Maybe we are becoming phobic about our away form? Trying too hard, tensing up slightly?
 

Lionel Bart-At

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Just not being clinical enough. Simple as. Stoke should've won. Villa, despite Villa having better of opening 60 minutes we still created much better chances. Blackburn, despite being ropey still created more than they did. Tonight, should have been at least 2 up before they score.

Not much wrong really just need to find the ruthlessness away from home.

Profligacy is certainly a factor!! But doesn't answer the question about home v away results.
 

Doovster

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Profligacy is certainly a factor!! But doesn't answer the question about home v away results.

I just don't think it's a crisis. We simply need to finish our chances away and kill teams off. I don't think there's much more to it.
 

GP200

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...............please calm down..............
 

Lionel Bart-At

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I just don't think it's a crisis. We simply need to finish our chances away and kill teams off. I don't think there's much more to it.

It's not a crisis at all, you're right. There are more points to be had away from home, though, and this talented squad will need to grab a few more of them over the course of the season.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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... and I'm also curious to know what people think about the age old question about the differences between playing home and away. How much is between the ears, how much is down to other material factors?
 

Doovster

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It's not a crisis at all, you're right. There are more points to be had away from home, though, and this talented squad will need to grab a few more of them over the course of the season.

We're averaging the Holy Grail of 2 points per game. As we all know, that will get us promoted. Replicate this for the rest of the season and we reach the promised land!
 

cromerbee

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Win at home, draw away = promotion. We will lose some at home ( probably) but will win similar if not more away.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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We're averaging the Holy Grail of 2 points per game. As we all know, that will get us promoted. Replicate this for the rest of the season and we reach the promised land!

Marginal gains. How can we eek out the most points from all our games. I say again, there are more points to be had away from home. Besides, we can't bank on a 100% home record all season!
 

Doovster

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Win at home, draw away = promotion. We will lose some at home ( probably) but will win similar if not more away.

That's my logic too. Don't expect to win every home game but expect us to win some aways too!
 

Lionel Bart-At

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That's my logic too. Don't expect to win every home game but expect us to win some aways too!

You're probably right. You're also accepting the notion that away games yield far less points than home games. I'm asking you and everyone why should this be?
 

Taunton Bee

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Sloppy

... and I'm also curious to know what people think about the age old question about the differences between playing home and away. How much is between the ears, how much is down to other material factors?
It's called sloppy and casual. We will win if we just 'turn up'
 

Doovster

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You're probably right. You're also accepting the notion that away games yield far less points than home games. I'm asking you and everyone why should this be?

It's always been like that hasn't it? Set up differently away, crowd influence, pitch etc. I think you mentioned earlier about mentality/psychology which is probably at the heart of it and not unique to us.
 

maddogging

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Missed chances, that’s all it comes down to for me. Need to be more clinical and get that all important two goal cushion, it will come
 

Lionel Bart-At

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It's always been like that hasn't it? Set up differently away, crowd influence, pitch etc. I think you mentioned earlier about mentality/psychology which is probably at the heart of it and not unique to us.

Missed chances, that’s all it comes down to for me. Need to be more clinical and get that all important two goal cushion, it will come

It's all daft though, isn't it?

Doovster, why should we just accept these historical conventions? At the end of the day it's 11 v 11. We are a club which thinks outside the box. We should be working our way past these psychological hurdles.

Maddogging, we also miss chances at home (probably the same ratio - we could win every game, home OR away by a 3 or 4 goal margin). So this doesn't explain our relative form home and away.
 

BURFORD BEE

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You're probably right. You're also accepting the notion that away games yield far less points than home games. I'm asking you and everyone why should this be?

It’s always been so and for all teams which is why the old pools coupons were for 4 aways and 9 homes. It’s crowd and familiarity. We also need to bear in mind that we play at a high tempo and have a very young squad. Away games on a Tuesday may come too soon for them. I think that DS may need to use the squad more on these occasions.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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It’s always been so and for all teams which is why the old pools coupons were for 4 aways and 9 homes. It’s crowd and familiarity. We also need to bear in mind that we play at a high tempo and have a very young squad. Away games on a Tuesday may come too soon for them. I think that DS may need to use the squad more on these occasions.

I've been watching football for over 50 years and am fully aware that it has always been so. I'm asking why has it always been so. Could it be that it's always been so because we simply accept that it's always been so, if you see what I mean? This 'difficult place to come' mentality could be a self-fulfilling prophesy.
 

badgerbee

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BurdonBee

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It's called sloppy and casual. We will win if we just 'turn up'
Not sure about the 'turn up' bit, but we were sloppy and casual. Extraordinary number of misplaced passes all evening, just not like us, plus the ongoing 'should have scored more', how many seasons have we been saying that recently???
 

rebus

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It’s clean sheets we have to worry about, not whether we’ve picked up our first away win yet.
 

SH

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We have three exceptional, ball-playing centre halves. If Rico and Moses come back as strongly as we all hope then that’s surely a natural platform for 3-5-2 in some games? Surely worth a try now? Will give us more defensive solidity away without losing much creativity (essentially JJ for Mokotjo on last night’s line-up) and a proverbial Plan B for away games and the, luckily few, times when the Masterplan A isn’t firing.
 

GABS

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Matthew wouldn't be impressed with your sample size here, 4/23! :D
 

Full Metal Jacket

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We have three exceptional, ball-playing centre halves. If Rico and Moses come back as strongly as we all hope then that’s surely a natural platform for 3-5-2 in some games? Surely worth a try now? Will give us more defensive solidity away without losing much creativity (essentially JJ for Mokotjo on last night’s line-up) and a proverbial Plan B for away games and the, luckily few, times when the Masterplan A isn’t firing.

That's a non starter. We've got three wingers and only one striker.
 

Judio1999

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If it isnt happenening

You sign Bolasie and Abraham as last minute loan signings

And you get 3 points

Hmmm
 

Full Metal Jacket

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We have a young and relatively inexperienced team, In fact, I think I'm right in saying we have the youngest team in the division? So we're bound to be inconsistent, especially away from home where we come under more pressure. Moreover, we lack leadership so that when things start to go wrong (as they are bound to do sometimes) it's difficult to regroup, reorganise and change the course of the game. Hence you get games where we drift as we did at Blackburn and, by all accounts, last night. We'll have our good days (Stoke was pretty good and Villa wasn't bad) but we'll also have plenty of less good ones too. I'm afraid that it's inevitably going to be a bit up and down away from home.

We also have a bit of a soft underbelly in midfield. McEachran and McLeod both struggle to complete the full 90 minutes never mind play two games in a week. They're both talented players and when they're strutting their stuff they're fabulous to watch. But over the course of a very long and very hard season we will need more. Can Mokotjo and Yennaris provide that support? Well, the helped rescue a point at Villa but otherwise they've been unconvincing so far.

The final point I'll make - and this affects both home and away games - is that we really don't have much depth in the squad at present. We have three players out injured (Henry, Marcondes and Odubajo) at least two of which seem likely to be out for quite some time. We have others (Forss, Cole and Da Silva) who are extremely raw and unlikely to feature regularly in the months ahead unless circumstances force our hand. And we have Judge who looks past his best and unable to cope with the Championship any longer. That leaves four or five outfield reserves (Yennaris, Mokotjo, Jeanvier, Clarke, Canos) from which we can try to make game changing substitutions. I'm not sure there's enough quality there to turn things round if the going gets tough. We are extremely reliant on the first X1 and if players get tired, injured or lose form I think we're going to be very stretched.

The bottom line is that we're going to need to be patient. We don't have the resources to sweep all before us. We've got off to a good start and I'm sure we'll have many good days in the months ahead. But there'll also be plenty of times when the wheels fall off too. In other words, it's going to be a bit of a roller-coaster!
 

Bangor Bee

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I think our squad depth is pretty good, except in the key positions of keeper and striker.Henry, Marcondes and Odubajo will hopefully all be involved fairly soon, while Mokotjo is decent and Jeanvier comes with an excellent reputation. Canos looked as good as Benrahma last night and Clarke should not be dismissed so easily. I felt we have missed Woods the last couple of away games, but who knows, perhaps Dasilva will offer something similar.
 

LostBee

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Room for improvement away from home definitely, but we have a young team and they will improve.

Win away at Derby on Saturday and all this will be forgotten.
 

wanderer paul

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Just an off day. At Stoke we weren’t clinical with our finishing. Ipswich the same. Villa we weren’t at the races but then controlled the last 15/20 minutes and then got a sucker punch that is to the ref. Blackburn sounded like we were under par. We aren’t going to bash teams away from home. We also don’t have the back up to change games, imo. It’s something we have to accept. We aren’t being beaten easily either. Let’s see what happens at Derby. :)
 

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Are we missing Ryan Woods’s presence in these away games?

Can’t be bothered to check but seem to recall some fairly woeful away performances last season when Ryan was playing.

Win at home draw away and we will be in the top 2,
 

Milton Keynes Bee

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Need to eliminate the sloppy passing and poor ball retention that seem to be a regular away occurrence.

Keep the ball and improve passing accuracy and both the goals at one end and the clean sheets at the other will follow.
 

Isleworth_Bee

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Why are we worrying about this now?? Yes we need to convert chances but its not as if we are getting smashed away from home.
 

Bixer

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Got my tickets this morning :thumbsup:

Oh...sorry, wrong thread
 

Guildford Bee

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I'm sure we lost 2 nil away at Ipswich last season with a certain Mr Woods in midfield?

Ipswich away last night wasn’t all that different from last night in fact. Bossed the first half and should’ve been a few goals up at HT and then fell away badly in the second.

Griffin Park is truly unique in this division so it’s no surprise other teams find it such a hard place to come.
 

jlove

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We have three exceptional, ball-playing centre halves. If Rico and Moses come back as strongly as we all hope then that’s surely a natural platform for 3-5-2 in some games? Surely worth a try now? Will give us more defensive solidity away without losing much creativity (essentially JJ for Mokotjo on last night’s line-up) and a proverbial Plan B for away games and the, luckily few, times when the Masterplan A isn’t firing.

While I agree that I would have brought Jeanvier on last night, it would have been to allow one of the CB's to play in midfield, not to totally re-write a formation that has been fixed from the beginning of last season and our recruitment has been based on. We just didn't react to or cope with Ipswich's change of formation but we should have been able to continue to impose our formation and style on them, not tinker about. That is the challenge for the coaches.
 

Castleview

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Why are we worrying about this now?? Yes we need to convert chances but its not as if we are getting smashed away from home.

Agree but its very frustrating to hear on commentary we should be home and dry by half time and then struggle to hang on at the end. I'm not sure about this sharing the captaincy around. Sounds like we needed a McCormac type authority to gee them up when necessary.
 

IDontBeeLieveIt

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... and I'm also curious to know what people think about the age old question about the differences between playing home and away. How much is between the ears, how much is down to other material factors?

Away teams would be more inclined to play tighter and hit on the break. So if we score more than one we're going to be looking good for a victory.
Home teams, regardless of who they are, are more inclined to give it a bit of a go, and so we've got a higher chance of conceding, and so it's increasingly important to put away the chances we create.
 

BEESDPA

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It's all daft though, isn't it?

Doovster, why should we just accept these historical conventions? At the end of the day it's 11 v 11. We are a club which thinks outside the box. We should be working our way past these psychological hurdles.

Maddogging, we also miss chances at home (probably the same ratio - we could win every game, home OR away by a 3 or 4 goal margin). So this doesn't explain our relative form home and away.

Teams sit much deeper at GP to begin with = easier for us to create high quality chances throughout the match. Directness and will of a home team to get back into a game.
The 2nd half last night wasn't great to watch. Smith tried to rest some legs and rotate the team with changes but they backfired.
Our overall play doesn't differ too much Home or Away but the opposition mindset does. Ipswich came at us in the second half and pushed much higher up the pitch. It's up to us to be clinical on the break and take advantage of that when away, but throughout much of the 2nd half we could barely pass the ball let alone create chances.
I don't think you can blanket this one with all away performances as this one was particularly poor after the subs, but it does generally comes back to scoring when you're on top.
Ipswich and all teams we play against away are going to have their periods of sustained pressure. If we have the goals in the bank to not let the odd goal that we're probably going to concede on the road, affect match outcome, we'll be ok.
 

jlove

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Agree but its very frustrating to hear on commentary we should be home and dry by half time and then struggle to hang on at the end. I'm not sure about this sharing the captaincy around. Sounds like we needed a McCormac type authority to gee them up when necessary.
We didn't need someone to gee the players up, we needed to respond to Ipswich's change of formation and brought on two experienced players who ought to have been able to affect our game but had no effect whatsoever.
 

BEESDPA

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Agree but its very frustrating to hear on commentary we should be home and dry by half time and then struggle to hang on at the end. I'm not sure about this sharing the captaincy around. Sounds like we needed a McCormac type authority to gee them up when necessary.

Disagree hugely. There was plenty of geeing up last night, it was quality in possession after the subs that was lacking.
 

BEESDPA

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We didn't need someone to gee the players up, we needed to respond to Ipswich's change of formation and brought on two experienced players who ought to have been able to affect our game but had no effect whatsoever.

Exactly. I've not read the reviews on the match report section as I can guess the direction they're probably going in as we all saw the issues.
But the impact of the subs was a real worry. They looked light years off the pace.
 

Doovster

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Agree but its very frustrating to hear on commentary we should be home and dry by half time and then struggle to hang on at the end. I'm not sure about this sharing the captaincy around. Sounds like we needed a McCormac type authority to gee them up when necessary.

Where's Eddie Hutchinson when you need him....
 

Vid

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Has any club won more away than home games in a season ? I know of a club that holds the record for home wins...Brentwood or something.
 

Frothybaby

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I wonder if pitch size and length of grass makes a difference. I can't find table of Championship pitch sizes but I ours looks smaller than Ipswich and Villa, with Rovers reputed to be one of the biggest in the land! If I was playing a good passing team and I played direct, I would let the grass grow and not water it.

I am sure there are other factors, but last night our passing of anything over 10 yards on the grass seemed to be not working.
 

Wooburn Bee

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...............please calm down..............

yes these are early days in the season and winning away from home never easy. End of day we have only lost one game. Team and Dean will learn from all these games and will be able to adjust plans for future games and during games. Good news is that we have immediately hit our stride at home. A few players coming back from injury will also help to give us more energy when needed such as Moses, Marcondes, Da Silva (if he is as good as Arsene predicted he would be and can give us a Viera like presence in middle of park when needed) and Rico Henry.
 
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