Our Free Kicks in the Opponents Half

HaylingBee74

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Often in games I see us given a free kick, 15 yards into the opponent’s half. It disappoints me to see a quick decision to pass the ball short and backwards. 3 passes it is back in Raya’s hand. What a waste! This happened again during the first half yesterday, at least once.
Then late in the second half from a similar position we get a free kick, time is taken our CBs go forward and Saman takes the fk (with Bryan making a dummy run right) onto Mads Bech for our 3rd goal.
I can see nothing gained from wasting set pieces by passing back to Raya, when scoring opportunities might arise from the direct ball into the box or down the flank
 

Eieieio

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with recent teams pressing us more than was the case earlier in the season (as they've learnt it works), Raya is often being forced into long balls anyway when it is played back to him. i imagine that statistically it's better to keep possession or something than roll the dice and have a small chance of scoring from a long range free kick but a much bigger chance of giving the ball away. maybe anyway. But i'd agree that in recent games particularly playing against the press, playing back to raya has been somewhat frustrating.
 

Ealing Bee

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i imagine that statistically it's better to keep possession or something than roll the dice and have a small chance of scoring from a long range free kick but a much bigger chance of giving the ball away. maybe anyway.
That was my initial thought on reading the opening post.

And if so, they may have also decided it's better to keep possession when a goal or two ahead, whereas we might chuck it in the mix more often when chasing an equaliser with the clock running out?

I imagine it's the same eg with maintaining a very high defensive line when facing a free kick into our half; or pulling players back at corners. And didn't Mr. Benham once say you shouldn't take the ball into the far corner when running down the clock in injury time, presumably on the basis that you'll actually lose possession more often than if you calmly pass it around in midfield? Then there's Raya's positioning at free-kicks...

All of these seem odd to me, but I must trust that there's a statistical rationale behind them.
 

Delbee

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I think this going to be a very interesting thread. By the first few posts Im not the only one who get frustrated with our free kicks .

There were at least a couple time last night when Jensen and Mbeano were standing wide near the Wednesday penalty box . It was played in as expected to around the penalty spot. I thought there was space wide between the penalty box line and the touch line. A simple ball played by one of the players into this space a run by the second player onto the ball and they would have been beyond the defensive line and been able to put a cross in . The Wednesday players would have to be turning round to defend the cross
 

hardybee

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I think we’ve missed a good free kick taker for a number of years now. But I’m talking more edge of the box positions. When Said stood over them I was always felt optimistic but I can’t remember him scoring too many. When we get a free kick on the edge of the area now I never really think this is going in, and very often they come to nothing. who would be our best free kick taker now from a shooting position? Marcondes? Bryan? I think the last was probably Saunders or maybe Judge.
 

hatfieldbee

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I think we’ve missed a good free kick taker for a number of years now. But I’m talking more edge of the box positions. When Said stood over them I was always felt optimistic but I can’t remember him scoring too many. When we get a free kick on the edge of the area now I never really think this is going in, and very often they come to nothing. who would be our best free kick taker now from a shooting position? Marcondes? Bryan? I think the last was probably Saunders or maybe Judge.
JDS or Ivan, IMO.
 

Wise old Bee

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I think we’ve missed a good free kick taker for a number of years now. But I’m talking more edge of the box positions. When Said stood over them I was always felt optimistic but I can’t remember him scoring too many. When we get a free kick on the edge of the area now I never really think this is going in, and very often they come to nothing. who would be our best free kick taker now from a shooting position? Marcondes? Bryan? I think the last was probably Saunders or maybe Judge.
Probably Janelt? I always like to have at least one option of a player who has a kick like a mule, a bit like Martin Grainger or Jim McNichol.
 

JANORAK

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who would be our best free kick taker now from a shooting position? Marcondes? Bryan? I think the last was probably Saunders or maybe Judge.
Judge at Arsenal. Emiliano v. Stoke(?) Cup.
I particularly enjoy those balls into the goal area that evade everybody, including the GK, and make everyone look a berk when they go in unaided!
I think Ghoddos or Emiliano have the finesse and trickery. JDS or Bryan at longer range. Ivan for sheer force of personality and confidence, if something needs to be made to happen!
 

Lewbeelou

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Judge at Arsenal. Emiliano v. Stoke(?) Cup.
I particularly enjoy those balls into the goal area that evade everybody, including the GK, and make everyone look a berk when they go in unaided!
I think Ghoddos or Emiliano have the finesse and trickery. JDS or Bryan at longer range. Ivan for sheer force of personality and confidence, if something needs to be made to happen!
Barbet was the best in recent years I’d say
 

badgerbee

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I think we’ve missed a good free kick taker for a number of years now. But I’m talking more edge of the box positions. When Said stood over them I was always felt optimistic but I can’t remember him scoring too many. When we get a free kick on the edge of the area now I never really think this is going in, and very often they come to nothing. who would be our best free kick taker now from a shooting position? Marcondes? Bryan? I think the last was probably Saunders or maybe Judge.
As I mentioned in his own thread, Samman is the man for this.
Best deliverer of a set piece at the club, IMHO.
Strikes the ball superbly.
 

Sandybee

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Barbet was the best in recent years I’d say
When we are defending free kicks from these positions we try to have a high defensive line, thus preventing the opposition floating the ball under our crossbar. This protects Raya from the resultant melee (and our recent goalkeeping ‘events’ bear this out). I deduce, therefore, that we should float the free kicks at the cross bar and hope the opposition keeper does not command his 6 yard box! It’s also better than the short free kick that often ends up back with Raya anyway. It drives me nuts!
 
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I reckon all those professionals (players, coaches, dofs, kitmen) at the club know what they’re doing and won’t change things just to appease some fault-finders on the GPG.

We’re doing just fine. Try to enjoy it :hat:
 

Sandybee

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I reckon all those professionals (players, coaches, dofs, kitmen) at the club know what they’re doing and won’t change things just to appease some fault-finders on the GPG.

We’re doing just fine. Try to enjoy it :hat:
My post was just a talking point on an interesting thread really, and I agree they are all doing a professional job, and trying their best. Well, all except the kit bloke who bought that ‘orrible brown 2nd kit last year.
 
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My post was just a talking point on an interesting thread really, and I agree they are all doing a professional job, and trying their best. Well, all except the kit bloke who bought that ‘orrible brown 2nd kit last year.
I’m not sure if it was all down to Bob 😆
 

EarleyBee

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Often in games I see us given a free kick, 15 yards into the opponent’s half. It disappoints me to see a quick decision to pass the ball short and backwards. 3 passes it is back in Raya’s hand. What a waste! This happened again during the first half yesterday, at least once.
Then late in the second half from a similar position we get a free kick, time is taken our CBs go forward and Saman takes the fk (with Bryan making a dummy run right) onto Mads Bech for our 3rd goal.
I can see nothing gained from wasting set pieces by passing back to Raya, when scoring opportunities might arise from the direct ball into the box or down the flank
The example you have given of the 3rd goal against SW was roughly on the rugby 22 and was only ever going to be an attacking set piece. It was a bit different to a free kick in the area that you talk about, even if those do frustrate when they go sideways or backwards. I've assumed we do it to keep the ball moving and the opposition thinking, rather than the conventional long punt into the box that very rarely come to anything, from that distance, as teams are probably drilled at defending those for most of the week?
 

jlove

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I think that's the point. Free kicks lumped into the box towards 18 players bunched together has a low success potential (unless you have a few giants). A lot of our attacking goes into working the opposition defence to open the opportunities and it's a judgement whether a 'hit and hope' kick or retaining the ball is the best option. Being cleverer, on the other hand, probably increases the possibility of success but also risks looking a bit silly if they don't work – risk and reward is, I'm sure, analysed and assessed.
 
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Makes sense.

But how is it different from MBS's long throws, where he basically "lumps it into the box towards 18 players bunched together"?
I'm certain that those paid to make these decisions have all the information they need, and make a sound judgement based on that information. :hat:
 
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HaylingBee74

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With a back 4 of Henrik, Winston, Ethan & Mads Bech we do have enough “giants” to cause problems. If Ivan plays too even better and having the rest of the team able to pounce on any crumbs that drop I think our chances/game should increase
 

mhead bee

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I remember Man Unt fans kicking off about this about 20 years ago, why play a quick pass when you can lump it into the oppositions penalty area. They produced some stats that showed getting the ball rolling asap gained a second in thought and the opposition had to stay alert and had to keep chasing. Even if you go back to the keeper the opposition are still in defensive, chasing mode and on the back foot for us to rebuild. Remember the opposition have given the foul away for a reason, to disrupt you and they kicvk the ball away for a reason, the quicker you get going the more you keep them in fouling mode.
 

mhead bee

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Makes sense.

But how is it different from MBS's long throws, where he basically "lumps it into the box towards 18 players bunched together"?

Probably because all of our throws result in nothing so the best option is the long lump because he can lead to a goal like it did the other day. Long punts into the box from the half waty line result in nothing so the best option is to play it around. We could always see if Fash and Robbie Earle are still around.
 
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HaylingBee74

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I remember Man Unt fans kicking off about this about 20 years ago, why play a quick pass when you can lump it into the oppositions penalty area. They produced some stats that showed getting the ball rolling asap gained a second in thought and the opposition had to stay alert and had to keep chasing. Even if you go back to the keeper the opposition are still in defensive, chasing mode and on the back foot for us to rebuild. Remember the opposition have given the foul away for a reason, to disrupt you and they kicvk the ball away for a reason, the quicker you get going the more you keep them in fouling mode.
The ball went back to Raya and we lost possession while still in our own half. We won so it wasn’t a problem
 

Ealing Bee

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I'm certain that those paid to make these decisions have all the information they need, and make a sound judgement based on that information. :hat:
I'm not questioning their judgment and expertise etc, merely wondering what the rationale behind the chosen tactics might be, since it isn't immediately obvious what the difference is between "lumping it forward" from a free kick and lumping it via a long throw.

(Well not obvious to me, at any rate)
 

mhead bee

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The ball went back to Raya and we lost possession while still in our own half. We won so it wasn’t a problem

So how many times has this happened out of our 9000 free kicks in the last 10 years. No need to start whacking long free kicks because we lost it once.
 

costabees

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With a back 4 of Henrik, Winston, Ethan & Mads Bech we do have enough “giants” to cause problems. If Ivan plays too even better and having the rest of the team able to pounce on any crumbs that drop I think our chances/game should increase
Was exactly thinking this. Although SW are s***, we did look very threatening from balls into the box on Wednesday and I think that's down to how big our back 4 are now. Assuming MBS remains our LB, as long as we keep it tight at the back, we will always have a chance to nick one from a set piece/corner.
 

EarleyBee

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Makes sense.

But how is it different from MBS's long throws, where he basically "lumps it into the box towards 18 players bunched together"?
His long throws are emulating an attacking free kick from a similar area, I.e. if we got a free kick 5yds in from the touchline in the same area we would put that into the box and we are doing the same with the long throw. Its different than the long range free kick fom 10-15yds inside the opposition half, which often as not come to nothing. Now that Sorensen seems to have adjusted his technique slightly with a producing a flatter, faster ball we might start to see a better return.
 

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