QPR 1-3 Brentford: Match Reports

johndub

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I have been unsure of whether to post....but have decided to as my family had a really unpleasant experience during the second half of the QPR match- so much so that I am unable to enjoy this great result and am seriously questioning whether I will ever attend another away match.
My family consisting of myself, husband and 20 year old son had tickets in the upper tier, block y3, row m- so we where second to back row but just left of the goal. As the game started, several rows in front of us stood up, meaning we did as well, this was not a problem for us and the 20 year old really enjoyed it.The problem occurred at the start of the second half - a gentleman (mid 50's?) came and sat behind my son (he had not be there in the first half), as second half commenced and we stood up to see, he said to my son "your not going to stand up, I can't see," and tried to man handle my son back into his seat. I intervened and explained to him, that we understood that, the rules in a football stadium expect you to sit down but we were standing because of the people in front of us were standing. He basically said - he didn't care, he was going to sit in the seat he had paid for and expected us to do the same.
I tried to reason with him further by suggesting that he sat in an empty seat further down the stand or that he go and talk to the people who where standing and ask them to sit down, meaning we all could sit. He refused to do both - his solution was for us to sit down and not see the match so he would be able to see. I could see that the matter was not going to be resolved, so I returned to watching the match.
This is were it started to turn nasty- he tried to provoke us by poking us in the back, trying to remove the hat I was wearing and clapping very loudly by our ears. We ignored him......so he then decided to up his aggressive tactics......when QPR nearly scored (the attempt before they did score).....we had all gasped.....hands on head and I remember say to my son "I thought that had gone in", a voice came from behind me....."Did they, I couldn't see" and then he put both hands on my son's back and shove him so hard - it sent him flying over the rows in front of us and flying down the upper tier. Fortunately, I reacted instinctively and grabbed my son's arm and was able to pull him back- my son was both extremely shocked and angry and turned to confront the man. I was still holding onto to my son and shouting "no,no,no" and I was able to calm him. My son, then went into shock and sat down, saying that he would rather not see the match, than go through any more of those bullying tactics.
I then turned to the man, who was now smirking, thinking that he had got what he wanted - what he hadn't bargained for -was a mother's anger, tied in with 28 years of teaching experience- I know how to use both my voice and facial expressions very effectively. I am also only 5'2, so with him sitting and me standing in the row below, we were both at the same head height - looking him straight in the eyes, finger pointing to emphasise every word- don't ever,ever,ever,ever do that again or I will call the police. He at first claimed that he didn't do anything, I pointed to CCTV camera about 5m away.
By now, some of the other supporters had realised something had happened and I explained what had occurred- some of them offered to squeeze up so my son could stand with them. The bloke was still sitting and my parting words to him were - if you can do that to a fellow supporter, I dread to think what you would to people who weren't.

My son,still shaken, choose to remain standing with us and after a few minutes this horrible aggressive man decided his best course of action was to stand and watch also. I fully understand the rules about standing in a football ground( my husband prefers to sit because of his knees) and if it had been some who was elderly or had a reason why they couldn't stand - we would have found a solution. We did try with this man but he was having none of it.
I have been a Brentford supporter for over 40 years and a season ticket holder for 30 and I can honestly say, if that had been my first experience at a football match, it would definitely have been my last.
Thank you for reading this post and sorry that it is so long.

Why not report this to the club and suggest they have a word with him? You should be able to give them his seat number and they should then be able to identify him.
 

Isleworth_Bee

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Why not report this to the club and suggest they have a word with him? You should be able to give them his seat number and they should then be able to identify him.
Is it that easy to identify for away games?
 

BTID_BTID

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Thanks

Thank you all for your kind and supportive comments. I did think about reporting it to the club but not sure what it would achieve.
We don't attend many away games as we live in Brighton - so all the home games are like away games for us. I'm sure that we will be at Fulham away though- can't miss out on that one!
 

Lionel Bart-At

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Thank you all for your kind and supportive comments. I did think about reporting it to the club but not sure what it would achieve.
We don't attend many away games as we live in Brighton - so all the home games are like away games for us. I'm sure that we will be at Fulham away though- can't miss out on that one!
Pleased you are not completely put off. We are mainly a great bunch of decent folk supporting the club, but I do sympathise. You do occasionally come across the odd strange and sometimes odious individual at away matches. I suppose you get used to everyone at home games if you have a season ticket, whereas at away games you are in the lap of the gods to an extent in terms of whose company you end up keeping. Bit like a blind date. lol
 

sonofabee

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Thank you all for your kind and supportive comments. I did think about reporting it to the club but not sure what it would achieve.
We don't attend many away games as we live in Brighton - so all the home games are like away games for us. I'm sure that we will be at Fulham away though- can't miss out on that one!
Sorry to read, it really isn’t the norm and sad as it sounds like someone who should know better.
Y6 down the front of upper was a very healthy and cheerful mix of young, old, male and female and we got along fine despite virtually everyone being up or on the edge of their seats all game.
 

Paul O'Brien

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Pleased you are not completely put off. We are mainly a great bunch of decent folk supporting the club, but I do sympathise. You do occasionally come across the odd strange and sometimes odious individual at away matches. I suppose you get used to everyone at home games if you have a season ticket, whereas at away games you are in the lap of the gods to an extent in terms of whose company you end up keeping. Bit like a blind date. lol
I agree. I remember seeing two Bees fans having a fight as I was leaving our Wembley seats after the Yeovil defeat. No idea what started it, just thought it was a bit ridiculous.
 

seanrs

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Absolutely nothing to apologise for - you make a very valid point.

Who knows, maybe your adversary will read it and learn something. OK, that's not likely to happen, but the rest of us can certainly learn.

Meanwhile, should anyone else find themselves in a similar situation, my advice would be to try to take a (surreptitious) photo and stick it on the net.

Oh, and support the Safe Standing Campaign!
https://griffinpark.org/forums/showthread.php?t=130052&highlight=Safe+Standing
Agree with your safe standing point. This guys behaviour totally over stepped the mark but I have seen many instances away where fans who just want to sit and watch the game get the hump with those standing in front of them. Trouble is those that want to stand don't have an area where they can
 

sonofabee

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I agree. I remember seeing two Bees fans having a fight as I was leaving our Wembley seats after the Yeovil defeat. No idea what started it, just thought it was a bit ridiculous.
Ridiculous but it happens, what shouldn’t ever happen is bullying or trying to intimidate a female and her son.
 

ruislip bee

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I agree. I remember seeing two Bees fans having a fight as I was leaving our Wembley seats after the Yeovil defeat. No idea what started it, just thought it was a bit ridiculous.
I saw the same at that game during the second half on the concourse under the stand and in the loos. What on earth is wrong with some people. They were really going for it too.
 

Delbee

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All Bees fans should go and read the article It was a critical moment six ponter and at the end of the article vote , at the moment it’s 60%plus that Mbeumo took a dive
 

Lionel Bart-At

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All Bees fans should go and read the article It was a critical moment six ponter and at the end of the article vote , at the moment it’s 60%plus that Mbeumo took a dive
Sorry Del, are you replying to a previous post? Which article is this?
 

beebopalula

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All Bees fans should go and read the article It was a critical moment six ponter and at the end of the article vote , at the moment it’s 60%plus that Mbeumo took a dive
There are such things as a soft foul and l'd categorise it as such. IMO if committed outside the box the referee would have given a foul so it's a pen. One of those cases where he tried to get out of the way of an obvious foul but didn't make it.
Still l'm really upset for them rofl
 

Mr Tree

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It was an article top right hand side of front page on GPG Under Latest From The Web it’s still there this morning so get on and vote
this, then: https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/i...d-brentford-star-face-punishment-six-pointer/

that website is total trash, so i wouldn't recommend anyone to go there. the decision was made and of course he won't face punishment lol

i can't believe they're going on about it. it was an obvious penalty. he feigned to shoot and did the defender, beautiful. it would be a foul anywhere else on the pitch.
 

jlove

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It was an article top right hand side of front page on GPG Under Latest From The Web it’s still there this morning so get on and vote
It's just nonsense. If a player goes down when there is no attempted tackle, it's a dive; if a player tries to minimise the impact of or ride over a flying tackle in the box, it's still a flying tackle in the box if the ball is not won cleanly and a free kick, i.e. a penalty. We had exactly the same arguments around Ollie's penalty at Leeds.
 

Mr Cynical

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this, then: https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/i...d-brentford-star-face-punishment-six-pointer/

that website is total trash, so i wouldn't recommend anyone to go there. the decision was made and of course he won't face punishment lol

i can't believe they're going on about it. it was an obvious penalty. he feigned to shoot and did the defender, beautiful. it would be a foul anywhere else on the pitch.
I notice nobody's mentioning Henry being physically dragged back by his shirt allowing their man a free run for the header for their goal? Absolutely blatant cheating but not in the 'dive' category obviously. It also infuriates me that they always post slow-motion replays of an incident which is never going to be properly representative of a situation.
 

Mr Tree

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It's just nonsense. If a player goes down when there is no attempted tackle, it's a dive; if a player tries to minimise the impact of or ride over a flying tackle in the box, it's still a flying tackle in the box if the ball is not won cleanly and a free kick, i.e. a penalty. We had exactly the same arguments around Ollie's penalty at Leeds.
exactly. i always look at the defender on these things - think about exactly what he was doing. in this case, he missed the ball and ran into the path of the man. how wouldn't that be a foul?
 

sussexb

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exactly. i always look at the defender on these things - think about exactly what he was doing. in this case, he missed the ball and ran into the path of the man. how wouldn't that be a foul?
Also, he'd kicked Mbuemo up in the air just before half time. See the same guy steaming in again, you're going to be primed to get out of the way!
 

ruislip bee

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Also, he'd kicked Mbuemo up in the air just before half time. See the same guy steaming in again, you're going to be primed to get out of the way!
How the hell he wasn't booked for that I'll never know.
 

johndub

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No doubt somebody will put me right on this but as I understand F A Law 12, an indirect free kick is awarded if a player ‘impedes the progress of an opponent without any contact being made’.
The same law also states that a direct free kick is awarded if a player ‘trips or attempts to trip’ an opponent in a manner considered by the ref to be careless, reckless or using excessive force. However it also says that if an offence involves contact, it is penalised by a direct free kick or a penalty kick.
All a bit confusing in my view. It seems to imply that if a player successfully avoids being whacked (by jumping over the tackle), it’s not a penalty. Perhaps Ladbroke can give us his take on the rule.
 

Doovster

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exactly. i always look at the defender on these things - think about exactly what he was doing. in this case, he missed the ball and ran into the path of the man. how wouldn't that be a foul?
Totally agree, being blocked/obstructed anywhere else on the pitch, if the ref spots it, is a foul. I therefore have no problem with the penalty, both got away with a decision which could've easily gone the other way on another day.
 

westwing

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Thank you all for your kind and supportive comments. I did think about reporting it to the club but not sure what it would achieve.
We don't attend many away games as we live in Brighton - so all the home games are like away games for us. I'm sure that we will be at Fulham away though- can't miss out on that one!
Some bloke pushed me down in to my seat at Chelsea away.
I was fuming and said to my daughter, if he does that again I'll smash his face in LOL
 

Lionel Bart-At

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Totally agree, being blocked/obstructed anywhere else on the pitch, if the ref spots it, is a foul. I therefore have no problem with the penalty, both got away with a decision which could've easily gone the other way on another day.
Obstruction results in an indirect free kick, doesn't it? Just saying. Not that I think it was obstruction in this instance.
 

Les Beeavinu

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Nobody is going to persuade me that this wasn't a penalty yet Watkins against Millwall was.
 

A Real Mysteron

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I don't think so. Used to be the case, but I think it changed a few years ago
I had a really embarrassing “discussion” with a young ref about this at Imber Court after watching my son lose a game.
As it turned out I later discovered he was correct. As are you.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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liverbee

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It was a penalty. He had to jump to avoid being taken out. They could have been down at least one player in the first half, in any case. FLW is bull.
 
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In relation to the story of the unpleasant chap in Upper I was a couple of rows down and as mentioned above earlier in the thread was stood next to a supporter who flipped when we were awarded the penalty and broke the seat in front by kicking it and stamping on it. Then when we scored dived forwards on to the fans below.

I get that it's all emotional but acting like a **** is beyond me tbh. And they were 2 to a seat just because they wanted to stand together invading my personal space which pissed me off. I detest Loftus Road and the way seats are allocated. I didn't want to be up the back. I don't mind standing but prefer to avoid the aggression.
 

ruislip bee

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Some bloke pushed me down in to my seat at Chelsea away.
I was fuming and said to my daughter, if he does that again I'll smash his face in LOL
It will be an ongoing problem until there is designated safe standing. At Fulham when we got circa 7,000 there we had a bloke on crutches and kids in our row. All was fine until about 10 minutes into the game 6 pissed up blokes arrived made their way to their seats and became the only people standing in that section preventing the kids from seeing. Anyway words were exchanged and the f****d off after 20 minutes.
 

WisBee

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Thank you all for your kind and supportive comments. I did think about reporting it to the club but not sure what it would achieve.
We don't attend many away games as we live in Brighton - so all the home games are like away games for us. I'm sure that we will be at Fulham away though- can't miss out on that one!

.........good to see you've not been completely put off by this experience, but I would urge you to report this to the club - "not being sure what it would achieve" if you did report it, is not the same as not reporting it at all whereby nothing would/could be achieved; if the club can trace this moron, they could possibly prevent him going to future away games and stop this sort of behaviour happening to someone else, and perhaps escalating more than it did on this occasion - I hope you don't regard this as me 'lecturing' you, its just my couple of penny worth.........
 

ladbroke

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No doubt somebody will put me right on this but as I understand F A Law 12, an indirect free kick is awarded if a player ‘impedes the progress of an opponent without any contact being made’.
The same law also states that a direct free kick is awarded if a player ‘trips or attempts to trip’ an opponent in a manner considered by the ref to be careless, reckless or using excessive force. However it also says that if an offence involves contact, it is penalised by a direct free kick or a penalty kick.
All a bit confusing in my view. It seems to imply that if a player successfully avoids being whacked (by jumping over the tackle), it’s not a penalty. Perhaps Ladbroke can give us his take on the rule.
I'll try and help you out here...

Before I do, other posts mentioned obstruction. Obstruction technically is not mentioned in the laws but as pointed out in this post "impedes the progress of a player". This is where obstruction would fall into. Things such as shielding the ball can fall into this category if you are not within playing distance of the ball or deliberately blocking a player from getting the ball and no intention of playing it.
The second part is what I'd say the penalty was awarded for.
Trips or attempts to trip. He attempted to trip the player but the player avoided contacted and potential injury by trying to leap over but was caught mid air in the body instead. This was enough for a free kick, so in area it's a penalty.
Personally think it falls into the careless category which doesn't carry a yellow card. Reckless would. But on the same point, I think it was Scowens 4th foul so should have been cautioned.

Hope the screenshot helps.
You could argue he attempted to kick him.
The attempt was there to trip or kick to stop him, but because the player avoided it by going down or jumping over to minimise the contact doesn't make it less a foul. Same with Watkins at Leeds. Was Watkins meant to wait to have his legs broken by the keeper that day?

Finally, can I add that in this bit, nowhere does it say that contact has to be made. Even winning the ball doesn't quantify it being a fair tackle and play on. Ths 3 factors are of the challenge were careless, reckless or dangerous.
Hate when referees point to the ball and say he got the ball. So what, it was a careless challenge etc. Why 99% of challenges from behind are penalised. They are seemed to be careless and can endanger the safety of the player.
Screenshot_20191101-101721_Laws of the Game.jpg
 
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johndub

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I'll try and help you out here...

Before I do, other posts mentioned obstruction. Obstruction technically is not mentioned in the laws but as pointed out in this post "impedes the progress of a player". This is where obstruction would fall into. Things such as shielding the ball can fall into this category if you are not within playing distance of the ball or deliberately blocking a player from getting the ball and no intention of playing it.
The second part is what I'd say the penalty was awarded for.
Trips or attempts to trip. He attempted to trip the player but the player avoided contacted and potential injury by trying to leap over but was caught mid air in the body instead. This was enough for a free kick, so in area it's a penalty.
Personally think it falls into the careless category which doesn't carry a yellow card. Reckless would. But on the same point, I think it was Scowens 4th foul so should have been cautioned.

Hope the screenshot helps.
You could argue he attempted to kick him.
The attempt was there to trip or kick to stop him, but because the player avoided it by going down or jumping over to minimise the contact doesn't make it less a foul. Same with Watkins at Leeds. Was Watkins meant to wait to have his legs broken by the keeper that day?

Finally, can I add that in this bit, nowhere does it say that contact has to be made. Even winning the ball doesn't quantify it being a fair tackle and play on. Ths 3 factors are of the challenge were careless, reckless or dangerous.
Hate when referees point to the ball and say he got the ball. So what, it was a careless challenge etc. Why 99% of challenges from behind are penalised. They are seemed to be careless and can endanger the safety of the player.
View attachment 20795

Thanks Ladbroke. The bit that still confuses me is that, having said that a direct free kick is awarded if a player...........attempts to trip an opponent, it then follows that with “if an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick”. Isn’t there a contradiction here? They state firstly that attempting to kick an opponent warrants a direct free kick. Then they say that if contact is made, it’s penalised by a direct free kick or penalty( the implication being that, without contact, it’s not a free kick).

Apologies for repetition and for boring others not hung up on the laws.
 

Ealing Bee

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IWhy 99% of challenges from behind are penalised. They are seemed to be careless and can endanger the safety of the player.
I suspect it's even simpler. If you penalise every challenge from behind, it takes the decision-making out of it for the referee i.e. the penalised player cannot claim it wasn't careless or dangerous etc.

It's the same with the recent change to Handball, whereby it no longer has to be intentional. With VAR, you can now say pretty definitively whether the ball made contact with the defender's arm or not, and now the referee doesn't have to determine whether it was "ball-to-hand" or "hand-to-ball".

Which if you think about it, means VAR is becoming the referee's master, not his servant.

But that's getting away from the "obstruction" debate.
 

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I have been unsure of whether to post....but have decided to as my family had a really unpleasant experience during the second half of the QPR match- so much so that I am unable to enjoy this great result and am seriously questioning whether I will ever attend another away match.
My family consisting of myself, husband and 20 year old son had tickets in the upper tier, block y3, row m- so we where second to back row but just left of the goal. As the game started, several rows in front of us stood up, meaning we did as well, this was not a problem for us and the 20 year old really enjoyed it.The problem occurred at the start of the second half - a gentleman (mid 50's?) came and sat behind my son (he had not be there in the first half), as second half commenced and we stood up to see, he said to my son "your not going to stand up, I can't see," and tried to man handle my son back into his seat. I intervened and explained to him, that we understood that, the rules in a football stadium expect you to sit down but we were standing because of the people in front of us were standing. He basically said - he didn't care, he was going to sit in the seat he had paid for and expected us to do the same.
I tried to reason with him further by suggesting that he sat in an empty seat further down the stand or that he go and talk to the people who where standing and ask them to sit down, meaning we all could sit. He refused to do both - his solution was for us to sit down and not see the match so he would be able to see. I could see that the matter was not going to be resolved, so I returned to watching the match.
This is were it started to turn nasty- he tried to provoke us by poking us in the back, trying to remove the hat I was wearing and clapping very loudly by our ears. We ignored him......so he then decided to up his aggressive tactics......when QPR nearly scored (the attempt before they did score).....we had all gasped.....hands on head and I remember say to my son "I thought that had gone in", a voice came from behind me....."Did they, I couldn't see" and then he put both hands on my son's back and shove him so hard - it sent him flying over the rows in front of us and flying down the upper tier. Fortunately, I reacted instinctively and grabbed my son's arm and was able to pull him back- my son was both extremely shocked and angry and turned to confront the man. I was still holding onto to my son and shouting "no,no,no" and I was able to calm him. My son, then went into shock and sat down, saying that he would rather not see the match, than go through any more of those bullying tactics.
I then turned to the man, who was now smirking, thinking that he had got what he wanted - what he hadn't bargained for -was a mother's anger, tied in with 28 years of teaching experience- I know how to use both my voice and facial expressions very effectively. I am also only 5'2, so with him sitting and me standing in the row below, we were both at the same head height - looking him straight in the eyes, finger pointing to emphasise every word- don't ever,ever,ever,ever do that again or I will call the police. He at first claimed that he didn't do anything, I pointed to CCTV camera about 5m away.
By now, some of the other supporters had realised something had happened and I explained what had occurred- some of them offered to squeeze up so my son could stand with them. The bloke was still sitting and my parting words to him were - if you can do that to a fellow supporter, I dread to think what you would to people who weren't.

My son,still shaken, choose to remain standing with us and after a few minutes this horrible aggressive man decided his best course of action was to stand and watch also. I fully understand the rules about standing in a football ground( my husband prefers to sit because of his knees) and if it had been some who was elderly or had a reason why they couldn't stand - we would have found a solution. We did try with this man but he was having none of it.
I have been a Brentford supporter for over 40 years and a season ticket holder for 30 and I can honestly say, if that had been my first experience at a football match, it would definitely have been my last.
Thank you for reading this post and sorry that it is so long.
Sorry just catching up on this thread and realised we were sitting next to you - in fact my 13 year old son was sitting one seat away from your son. We saw a bit of the unacceptable behaviour from that moron behind as soon as the 2nd half started but I wasn't really watching until I saw your son pitch forward over the seats in front and heard your, in the circumstances, quite restrained response. I thought the bloke behind was a idiot and a bully because he knew that if he had done that to some people he'd be out for the count in a second. His denial and smirking afterwards was particularly childish as well and I did wonder if he was a spanner short as it were! I thought you handle the situation well - I know if he'd have pushed my son I would have been straight over the seats to him which wouldn't have really achieved anything and probably got me into trouble as well. I kept an eye on the smirker after that and rest assured if he had tried anything else I was ready to back you up. To put his childish behaviour into context my 13 yo said to me just after the push "Why doesn't he just stand up like the rest of us or move along to that empty seat?" - there being a couple free in the back row. Sums it up really - class A moron. Don't let him put you or your son off supporting the bees - there really only 1 or 2 who behave like this and a lot less that a lot of other clubs.
 

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Things such as shielding the ball can fall into this category if you are not within playing distance of the ball or deliberately blocking a player from getting the ball and no intention of playing it.
[ATTACCH]
Slightly off topic but are referees told to ignore this rule when a defender deliberately shields the ball out for a goal kick with no intention of playing it, or is there a more specific rule that governs that scenario? Assuming it should be foul i find that one as annoying as RU referees ignoring feeding the ball at the scrum
 

liverbee

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Slightly off topic but are referees told to ignore this rule when a defender deliberately shields the ball out for a goal kick with no intention of playing it, or is there a more specific rule that governs that scenario? Assuming it should be foul i find that one as annoying as RU referees ignoring feeding the ball at the scrum
In this case the ball is in playing distance and under the control of and therefore under the control of the defender .
 

gbems92

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Found this in a dark corner of youtube incase anyones interested
 

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