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badgerbee

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sh*t last night.
Some very debatable Yellows for us, and missed the clear penalty in the 2nd half.
 

SmiffyBee

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sh*t last night.
Some very debatable Yellows for us, and missed the clear penalty in the 2nd half.
Issue of yellow cards yes, questions to be answered as Brighton players did not get equal treatment.

Penalty was not a pen for me.
 

badgerbee

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Issue of yellow cards yes, questions to be answered as Brighton players did not get equal treatment.

Penalty was not a pen for me.
👍
The handball incident? I really thought he deliberately moved his upper arm into the ball to knock it out for a corner.
Didn't have commentary on at the time, but I was genuinely shocked it wasn't given/VAR replays not shown over and over, as seems to be the case elsewhere..... . Although admittedly our players didn't seem to make much of it....
Perhaps that was the problem....
 

Banana

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The handball incident? I really thought he deliberately moved his upper arm into the ball to knock it out for a corner.
Didn't have commentary on at the time, but I was genuinely shocked it wasn't given/VAR replays not shown over and over, as seems to be the case elsewhere..... . Although admittedly our players didn't seem to make much of it....
Perhaps that was the problem....
Because it clearly hit his shoulder. Clear in the replay they showed.
 

HantsBee

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David Coote is the appointed ref for Man City game....the inept individual that did the game at Leeds.
 

badgerbee

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It's the movement of the arm which makes it more of a penalty for me.

Can't change it now, just move on and forget about it.
Yeah, that was my thinking.
Reckon had that been in front of a packed West Stand at LR the outcome may well have been different……

But I’ll move on now……😉
 

TW3Bee

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Yeah, that was my thinking.
Reckon had that been in front of a packed West Stand at LR the outcome may well have been different……

But I’ll move on now……😉
But it was in front of The Bees' fans.
 
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It's the movement of the arm which makes it more of a penalty for me.

Can't change it now, just move on and forget about it.

The commentator (here in NZ may not be the same as in the UK) said it wasn't handball because his arms were in a natural position. However he moved his arm towards the ball to knock it out of play. Perhaps VAR needs to draw a ring around the player's arm. Then perhaps we can also have a "referee's call" region as for "umpire's call" in the cricket.
 

Les Beeavinu

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The commentator (here in NZ may not be the same as in the UK) said it wasn't handball because his arms were in a natural position. However he moved his arm towards the ball to knock it out of play. Perhaps VAR needs to draw a ring around the player's arm. Then perhaps we can also have a "referee's call" region as for "umpire's call" in the cricket.
Looking at that still picture above, if his arm is in a natural position I have every admiration for the player making it as a professional despite his disability. I think it was not given because it was too high on the arm.
 

SmiffyBee

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Looking at that still picture above, if his arm is in a natural position I have every admiration for the player making it as a professional despite his disability. I think it was not given because it was too high on the arm.
Natural position, as in, not waving or raised In any way.
 

Themepark

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Issue of yellow cards yes, questions to be answered as Brighton players did not get equal treatment.
So to explain the one a bit... Mads and Norgaard's yellows were both for Stopping a Promising Attack. The only one I could definitely see (Webster) was given, the one I could only half see through the bodies the referee played advantage and allowed us to crack on, so then couldn't go back and yellow for it. Had he given the free-kick it would've been 2-2 for the SPA cards.
 

ladbroke

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So to explain the one a bit... Mads and Norgaard's yellows were both for Stopping a Promising Attack. The only one I could definitely see (Webster) was given, the one I could only half see through the bodies the referee played advantage and allowed us to crack on, so then couldn't go back and yellow for it. Had he given the free-kick it would've been 2-2 for the SPA cards.
Do think the norgaard one was a soft foul, maybe not even a foul....
 

Themepark

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The commentator (here in NZ may not be the same as in the UK) said it wasn't handball because his arms were in a natural position. However he moved his arm towards the ball to knock it out of play. Perhaps VAR needs to draw a ring around the player's arm. Then perhaps we can also have a "referee's call" region as for "umpire's call" in the cricket.
What commentators don't realise is "Natural Position" isn't actually in Law 12.

Handling the ball​

For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit. Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.

It is an offence if a player:
  • deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
  • touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
  • scores in the opponents’ goal:
    • directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
    • immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental
1640698457207.png
Handball is now a mess through law changes trying (and not succeeding) to word in common sense, and commentators paraphrasing it to death based on various other things that have come up over the years.

I usually have to explain it to at least one person a week, be it before/during/after a game - genuinely it's what I'm asked most often about at games now Sin Bins are old news 😂
 

Holysmit

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So to explain the one a bit... Mads and Norgaard's yellows were both for Stopping a Promising Attack. The only one I could definitely see (Webster) was given, the one I could only half see through the bodies the referee played advantage and allowed us to crack on, so then couldn't go back and yellow for it. Had he given the free-kick it would've been 2-2 for the SPA cards.
The Norgaard one was one of the most laughable dives I've seen ever and he feel for it.

He also didnt give us a penalty when Onyeka got kicked in the face despite it being right in front of him vs Everton.

Hes been dreadful both times.

We seem to get lots of bookings, yet challenges against us go unpunished.

How on earth we got 4 bookings and Watford got none i'll never understand.
 

SmiffyBee

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So to explain the one a bit... Mads and Norgaard's yellows were both for Stopping a Promising Attack. The only one I could definitely see (Webster) was given, the one I could only half see through the bodies the referee played advantage and allowed us to crack on, so then couldn't go back and yellow for it. Had he given the free-kick it would've been 2-2 for the SPA cards.

Not questioning the cards issued to Brentford players, as this was the judgement of the referee but to be consistent, there were similar Brighton challenges that were given as fouls but went unpunished in terms of a card.
 

Themepark

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Not questioning the cards issued to Brentford players, as this was the judgement of the referee but to be consistent, there were similar Brighton challenges that were given as fouls but went unpunished in terms of a card.
So to explain this further - the type of challenge isn't what the Brentford cards were for, it's the offence committed (Stopping a Promising Attack). So an identical challenge elsewhere doesn't 'earn' the card that you'd get for one you'd get in the attacking third so to speak.

Brentford committed two fouls that were SPA. Both given. Both cautioned.

Brighton committed two fouls that were SPA. One given (cautioned). The second, advantage was given to Brentford and the attack was able to continue - meaning the offence now can't be cautioned (as it didn't actually stop the promising attack after all).

Had he not played advantage and given the free kick, it would've been a yellow and made the card count for SPA 2-2 😊
 

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I watched 10 minutes of Watford vs West Ham and Darren England is having a mare again!
 

ladbroke

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How hasn't Pedro been awarded a free kick (and a card given) for that elbow in the head? England had a good view too.
 

-superbees2k3-

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Stroud getting some heat for his officiating yesterday in the QPR vs Bournemouth game. Turns out Stroud (from Bournemouth) has refereed 12 Bournemouth games over the years. In those games Bournemouth have won all 12 😂🎣
 

Holysmit

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Stroud getting some heat for his officiating yesterday in the QPR vs Bournemouth game. Turns out Stroud (from Bournemouth) has refereed 12 Bournemouth games over the years. In those games Bournemouth have won all 12 😂🎣
They also benefitted from Brentford and Sheffield United ending 2 all!
 

GP200

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.............jeepers,did this evening's ref have a blue shirt on beneath??????...........shocking,shocking, shocking....................
 

SH

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Don't want to be upsetting the big boys when there's a reffing career on the line. Much easier to give every decision, keeps them all sweet.

and allows you to be on first name terms with Jack and Phil 🥰
 

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I was quite surprised how cynical City were when we were in possession in attack, less surprised the ref let it all happen . You often hear officials say they do not favour the big clubs in decision making but a lot of home fans tonight would find that very hard to believe.
 

BFC1997

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I felt that David Coote vs Man City was just like many Premier League referees.

Overall pretty good, no major errors, communicates well with players, VAR, other officials etc. many things taken for granted by fans.

But then on the other hand they just seem to want a hassle free match rather than ref the game on its own merit. Give soft free kicks and have a reluctance to pull out any yellow cards so as to avoid the scrutiny of a major incident or a foul being missed. A little bit light on the injury time as well, 1 minute in the first half and 3 at the end didn’t seem right.
 

Banana

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I felt that David Coote vs Man City was just like many Premier League referees.

Overall pretty good, no major errors, communicates well with players, VAR, other officials etc. many things taken for granted by fans.

But then on the other hand they just seem to want a hassle free match rather than ref the game on its own merit. Give soft free kicks and have a reluctance to pull out any yellow cards so as to avoid the scrutiny of a major incident or a foul being missed. A little bit light on the injury time as well, 1 minute in the first half and 3 at the end didn’t seem right.
I do agree except on the cynical fouls by MCFC that stopped dangerous attacks. If that was the other way around we would have had 6 yellow cards tonight.
 

badgerbee

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A
Stopping a Potential Dangerous Attack. OF COURSE!
Absolutely!!!
Numerous occasions in first half where we were breaking, only to be stopped by a "tactical" foul.
If the ****** of a ref had shown a Yellow the first time it happened, they.wouldn't have felt they could keep doing it......which they did!!!! 😡
 

sonofabee

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I felt that David Coote vs Man City was just like many Premier League referees.

Overall pretty good, no major errors, communicates well with players, VAR, other officials etc. many things taken for granted by fans.

But then on the other hand they just seem to want a hassle free match rather than ref the game on its own merit. Give soft free kicks and have a reluctance to pull out any yellow cards so as to avoid the scrutiny of a major incident or a foul being missed. A little bit light on the injury time as well, 1 minute in the first half and 3 at the end didn’t seem right.

What about the cynical little trips and shirt tugs in the middle of the pitch, that’s a Brentford player and we see 4 maybe 5 yellow cards, they got zero.
The ref was weak and far too easy influenced by the theatrics of Grealish, Fernandinho and Foden.

The interception by Jensen on Grealish who chose not to tackle and just launch like a Salmon was laughable but the ref bought it. Two minutes later Ben Foden waved a leg at a tackle, lost out and threw himself in the air more out of hope and again won the free kick.
We don’t get decisions like that
 
OP
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What about the cynical little trips and shirt tugs in the middle of the pitch, that’s a Brentford player and we see 4 maybe 5 yellow cards, they got zero.
The ref was weak and far too easy influenced by the theatrics of Grealish, Fernandinho and Foden.

The interception by Jensen on Grealish who chose not to tackle and just launch like a Salmon was laughable but the ref bought it. Two minutes later Ben Foden waved a leg at a tackle, lost out and threw himself in the air more out of hope and again won the free kick.
We don’t get decisions like that
All of this. There was also a moment in the second half where Foden literally shoved Jensen over right under the nose of the referee who did nothing. 2 seconds later a Man City player falls over and gets a free kick. Atrocious officiating.
 

ladbroke

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Stopping a Potential Dangerous Attack. OF COURSE!
Known to us as SPA.
Stopping a Promising Attack.
No one mentions dangerous.

Norgaard got cautioned against Brighton for exactly this.
I was expecting a card to come out early when Toney was about to set Wissa through but nothing. It was ridiculous. That set the tone for what they'd do and several fouls later, especially on our left side, still no cards. May not have been the same player every time but it was clever vindictive play by them and Coote let them get away with it.
 

Wise old Bee

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What about the cynical little trips and shirt tugs in the middle of the pitch, that’s a Brentford player and we see 4 maybe 5 yellow cards, they got zero.
The ref was weak and far too easy influenced by the theatrics of Grealish, Fernandinho and Foden.
Always found this exasperating in the Championship, players taking it in turns to foul, break up play etc. I thought it might prevail less in the EPL but I suppose it is a touch more subtle although the refs are just as poor at dealing with it.
 

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Astonishing how he failed to bring out a card for any one of the numerous times City stopped a promising attack. Big club favouritism at its worst.
 

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Just for a bit of balance, the referee, Jarred Gillett, is the very same ref who was unanimously praised on here for his reffing of our p/o semi final second leg v. Bournemouth. He was particularly praised for not falling for Bournemouth's falling over and time wasting.

I didn't think he was as biased on here as some are making out. A couple of soft free kicks given against perhaps, but that's it. Another poster mentioned that Man C are experts are drawing free kicks and that's how I saw much of it.

He could easily have been harsher on Toney (who was less subtle in his retaliation) and Fernandinho (who was more subtle).
 

NorthamptonBee

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Just for a bit of balance, the referee, Jarred Gillett, is the very same ref who was unanimously praised on here for his reffing of our p/o semi final second leg v. Bournemouth. He was particularly praised for not falling for Bournemouth's falling over and time wasting.

I didn't think he was as biased on here as some are making out. A couple of soft free kicks given against perhaps, but that's it. Another poster mentioned that Man C are experts are drawing free kicks and that's how I saw much of it.

He could easily have been harsher on Toney (who was less subtle in his retaliation) and Fernandinho (who was more subtle).
Wrong ref
 

ladbroke

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He's done 3 Man City games in the past season and a half and issued no cards to them at all.
3 to Sheffield United and 2 to Crystal Palace.

I'm surprised considering the offences committed yesterday he didn't issue a single card.
If you consider the 8 cards he gave just 3 weeks ago in our game v Leeds. What's changed with his refereeing?
Even with the game yesterday, he still averages over 4 yellows a game this season. Last season it's was a little more than 3 per game as was the season before an nearly 4 in 2018/19.
So he's not scared to card, but never to Man City.
 

ladbroke

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Just for a bit of balance, the referee, Jarred Gillett, is the very same ref who was unanimously praised on here for his reffing of our p/o semi final second leg v. Bournemouth. He was particularly praised for not falling for Bournemouth's falling over and time wasting.

I didn't think he was as biased on here as some are making out. A couple of soft free kicks given against perhaps, but that's it. Another poster mentioned that Man C are experts are drawing free kicks and that's how I saw much of it.

He could easily have been harsher on Toney (who was less subtle in his retaliation) and Fernandinho (who was more subtle).
Difference between drawing free kicks and drawing fouls...
They got free kicks from non fouls. They went over a lot acting hurt or touched when it never was. Foden went down holding foot, crying to ref, in his own half and reffed played on. He shot up, shouted for and got the ball, and kicked with said painful foot just seconds earlier as if nothing happened.
He is a con artist just like Grealish.
 
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