Retrospective Bans for Diving

grutter

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The FA has approved retrospective action for diving.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39962886

Long overdue in my opinion and I hope this will eradicate the amount of cheating that goes on. Not only that, I hope it extends to the ones who go down like a sack of spuds clutching their face when they get a nudge in the ribs.

Allardyce calls it 'rubbish' and says what about the players that get booked for diving when they haven't dived? He would know all about cheating and is lucky to be in a job - I know he has an aversion to camera evidence after recent misdemeanors! He might have a point, but cheating players (and managers that condone it) have brought this upon themselves by making a referee's job almost impossible by turning headlong dives and rolls in the box into an art form. You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs, so I really don't care if the odd player gets a wrong booking if the regular cheats get punished. If the FA get this right, it should eradicate diving from the game.

Good on them. (now that's something I don't say often about the FA...ever!)
 

Banana

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It is nonsense. Get a yellow card if spotted in the match, but a ban if not. Pathetic.

It will be like the yellow card for the wall not retreating 10 yards all over again. i.e. quietly dropped
 

Les Beeavinu

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Sport is not precise. Why are people so petrified that a mistake might be made? Just like real life there are cheats and vagabonds and we should live with it. It's drama ffs, it has to be of that moment otherwise the drama is gone. God forbid that video replays come in and rip away the greatest thing that can happen in sport - the celebration of a goal scored.
 

sonofabee

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Nonsense rule, refs need to be braver and dish out more yellows and second yellows if they believe it was a dive and deliberate cheating
That would stop the out and out c**** like Forestrieri and Murray et al who look to hit the deck, blatantly cheating at every opportunity.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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I like it. It's such a difficult thing for refs to pick up unless they are lucky enough to see it from the perfect angle. Hate to see cheating especially when it results in a false yellow or red for a player.

Unrelated, probably, but I would also make it a mandatory yellow as soon as a player brandishes an imaginary card towards a referee. Just as disreputable as diving.
 

wanderer paul

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Unrelated, probably, but I would also make it a mandatory yellow as soon as a player brandishes an imaginary card towards a referee. Just as disreputable as diving.

That is already a booking, I thought?
 

Les Beeavinu

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So when all of this comes in, will someone start a thread bemoaning the lack of characters in the game? Once we've conditioned every player to behave the same way?
 

sonofabee

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So when all of this comes in, will someone start a thread bemoaning the lack of characters in the game? Once we've conditioned every player to behave the same way?

You are happy for players like Forestrieri to spend every game looking to con the ref and not only dives but feigns being fouled to get players booked and sent off?
That's not a character football will miss!
 

Lionel Bart-At

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So when all of this comes in, will someone start a thread bemoaning the lack of characters in the game? Once we've conditioned every player to behave the same way?

Not all change is bad, Les. For me this has got to be a positive. Diving has become an art form and has to be tackled. Are you suggesting that legislators should stop trying to make improvements to the game? And I thought I was getting old and staid!
 

Les Beeavinu

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I like all the bad things about a 90 minute game of football it's what makes football so entertaining. It's not about getting old at all, it's about keeping a perspective and accepting that it's a high pace game where everyone can make a mistake. I don't want to lose that at all.
 

Les Beeavinu

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You are happy for players like Forestrieri to spend every game looking to con the ref and not only dives but feigns being fouled to get players booked and sent off?
That's not a character football will miss!

Yes, happy to accept that.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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I like all the bad things about a 90 minute game of football it's what makes football so entertaining. It's not about getting old at all, it's about keeping a perspective and accepting that it's a high pace game where everyone can make a mistake. I don't want to lose that at all.

So a freeze on all future legislation for fear of the game becoming too sanitised? Fair enough. ;)
 

Lionel Bart-At

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You are happy for players like Forestrieri to spend every game looking to con the ref and not only dives but feigns being fouled to get players booked and sent off?
That's not a character football will miss!

Would have liked to have seen Montgomery banned for all that diving. Oh God, here's me digressing again on an important thread. Sorry moderator. Forgive me for I know not what I do.
 

Les Beeavinu

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So a freeze on all future legislation for fear of the game becoming too sanitised? Fair enough. ;)

Diving is already against the rules. I don't see the need to have to review every minute of a game of football though.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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Diving is already against the rules. I don't see the need to have to review every minute of a game of football though.

It has become really difficult for the ref to deal with this on his own. I would hope that referees would welcome this helping hand, rather than see it as interference.
 

RT

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We're better off having video replays, and then issuing bookings etc there and then and eradicate at source
 

kevalutonbee

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Danny Hylton of Luton is obviously making sure he gets all his dives out of his system this season
 

Nottsbee

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And right on cue, Danny Hylton's blatant dive wins Luton a penalty which looks like getting them to Wembley.

(And it also reminded me what a useless referee Darren Deadman is).
 

Les Beeavinu

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We're better off having video replays, and then issuing bookings etc there and then and eradicate at source

A video replay where we all have to wait for someone in a box to let us know when we can celebrate something? That'll be fun.
 

Les Beeavinu

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We love to talk about sh*t refs, bad decisions, cheating players - the debate is one of the things that makes the game great.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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We love to talk about sh*t refs, bad decisions, cheating players - the debate is one of the things that makes the game great.

So what you're saying is that you don't want to give refs any help to improve because that would stop you having cause to whinge about them or shout at them. Might as well lower the bar and let in really crap refs if this is why you enjoy the beautiful game. lol
 

RT

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A video replay where we all have to wait for someone in a box to let us know when we can celebrate something? That'll be fun.

The problem is you could still cheat, win a game and then take the punishment after where it doesn't hurt you but sure as hell hurts the other team. Tonight being a great example if that goal took Luton to Wembley
 

Stanley

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Worth a try IMHO. Cheating or "clever play" however you view it has become an art form so I don't blame the refs to being conned. The threat of it might just reduce the number of incidences. Obviously big Sam coaches this very art form.
 
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Les Beeavinu

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So what you're saying is that you don't want to give refs any help to improve because that would stop you having cause to whinge about them or shout at them. Might as well lower the bar and let in really crap refs if this is why you enjoy the beautiful game. lol

Well I'm sure you know full well that's not what I mean. Errors have always been part of the game. Take that away and you take away some of the drama.
 
OP
grutter

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Errors have always been part of our game. Widespread cheating hasn't and needs to be dealt with, as refs can't do it on their own. It's been allowed to almost be accepted as part of the game, which is completely wrong. Video replays are commonplace in most other popular sports now and football is no different. I remember when players got tapped and tried to stay on their feet and score a goal. Rare as hen's teeth now, but it wasn't that long ago.
 

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Fully support this idea, watched the amazing Barca-PSG comeback, but for me it was tainted by the amount of times Suarez & Neymar were looking to go down in the box, (finally succeeding as I recall).
The simple truth is that the refs need help with diving.
Whilst I have no problem with decisions standing re penalties, yellow cards, red cards etc so we don't effect the continuity of the actual game , the idea that cheats no longer prosper through retrospective punishment will bring a small part of the integrity back into the game that I think has been lost, especially at the top level.
 
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Les Beeavinu

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And right on cue, Danny Hylton's blatant dive wins Luton a penalty which looks like getting them to Wembley.

(And it also reminded me what a useless referee Darren Deadman is).

Looks like the injustice inspired Blackpool to a win. ;)
 

Lionel Bart-At

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Well I'm sure you know full well that's not what I mean. Errors have always been part of the game. Take that away and you take away some of the drama.

I remember very vividly referees truly breaking my heart as a youngster on more than one occasion. Take that away any day, thank you very much!

Or, to put it your way, probably, this all helped to make me the man I am today!.......

...... a neurotic, timorous beastie :nutty: :drinker: :crazy:
 
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I agree that mistakes and refereeing errors are part of the game and add to the excitement and uncertainty and the idea of video refs appals me.

But. Goal line technology which is a matter of fact rather than opinion makes utter sense.

As for diving. Not sure. But if a retrospective ban does make offenders think twice then maybe it is a good idea to name and shame and then punish blatant divers
 

Les Beeavinu

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I'm fine with any technology that confirms objectively. It's the subjective second opinion that I really don't want.
 

Les Beeavinu

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I remember very vividly referees truly breaking my heart as a youngster on more than one occasion. Take that away any day, thank you very much!

Or, to put it your way, probably, this all helped to make me the man I am today!.......

...... a neurotic, timorous beastie :nutty: :drinker: :crazy:

It's all part of the story. Happy films have sad bits too ;)
 

WarrenBee

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Anyone done for diving should be put in the stocks on the local village green for 24 hours, starting with that cheating git Danny Hylton from Luton!

:sorted:
 

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Whether or not I agree with it, I do find it ironic to hear the fat, bloater Allardyce bemoan people being paid money for 'doing rubbish situations in the game' (sic). He also appears to endorse the use of technology to entrap cheats. Oh dear, what a whelk.
 

The Pipe

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So who will be reviewing the game?? And is it every game across every league??

Imagine the Championship play off game is decided by a penalty due to a fdive and a retrospective punishment is given which will be the first club to go to court to get the result overturned??

The decision currently rests with the ref and whilst I think they should be taking a far tougher line any decisions made are immediate, the regulations already exidt regarding simulation they just need to be enforced

I can accept goal line technology as it removes any doubt but retrospective decisions I fear will open a massive can of worms, and if the FA wanted to be seen taking a stand somewhere then how about the holding in the penalty area where so many penalties and cards could come into play

Sorry I think this is a misguided idea
 

heebeegeebee

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It's taken me two hours to realise that the thread title is diving , not driving. Only came back to read it after seeing it mentioned on BBC website , glad to see it happening as its a scourge of football.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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Has presumably been seen as a success in Scotland for it to be taken on here.
 

scaramanga

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Anything that puts doubt into the minds of players thinking cheating is a good idea is a good idea in my book. Sergie Canos is one on our books at the minute, I cast my mind back to Denny Mundee too a few years back.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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Anything that puts doubt into the minds of players thinking cheating is a good idea is a good idea in my book. Sergie Canos is one on our books at the minute, I cast my mind back to Denny Mundee too a few years back.

It's a good idea but would not advocate it being unleashed on poor young Sergie. Far too much to bear.
 

Mr Tree

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surprised by some of the negative response :confused:

it might need refining a little, due to the on-field yellow card vs retrospective ban issue, but it's a step in the right direction anyway.

the tricky part is going to be judging these properly. i think there's a clear line, but my common sense is apparently not everyone else's :D

i always remember steven gerrard's penalty against sheff utd, think it was opening day, a few years ago. warnock went purple with rage. there was "no contact" - because gerrard had to take evasive action from the flying hack that caused him to fall over!!

there'll be all sorts of things like that - so it'll be "interesting" and potentially mind-numbing to see how that all goes...
 

mhead bee

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Sport is not precise. Why are people so petrified that a mistake might be made? Just like real life there are cheats and vagabonds and we should live with it. It's drama ffs, it has to be of that moment otherwise the drama is gone. God forbid that video replays come in and rip away the greatest thing that can happen in sport - the celebration of a goal scored.

I went to an all blacks game in the rugby world cup at the olympic stadium. As my boy was with me to get the last train home we planned to leave 10 minutes before the end at 9.20. We left at 9.20 only 15 mins into the second half. The ref was so scared of making a mistake he put everything to the video and it took 3-4 minutes every time, I don't want to get home from Brentford at 8 o clock every Saturday.

I quite like the idea of cheats being caught but as soon as we rationalise everything and eradicate mistakes etc we are left with nothing to argue about on the radio and in the pubs for the next 2 days and it all becomes pointless. Grounds full of plastic clappers and Chinese selfie sticks and no controversy to get excited about during or afterwards.

I would rather see a straight red for talking to the ref if you are not the captain, get that out the way and everybody will accept the refs decision as final.

That nonsence with sins bins is also daft. Knockheart punched Woods on the head and got told to calm down, Woods goes in for a fair 50/50 and gets a yellow. We could be without our best player due to ref uselessness.
 

kevalutonbee

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Whilst I agree with the notion that any card issued as a result of the dive should be rescinded, what happens if the card issued to the defender is red, the dive results in the award of a penalty which is scored and the final score is 1-0?

Yes the player caught diving may be banned (only if there is unanimous agreement on the panel) but the result of the match will still stand
 

mhead bee

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Whilst I agree with the notion that any card issued as a result of the dive should be rescinded, what happens if the card issued to the defender is red, the dive results in the award of a penalty which is scored and the final score is 1-0?

Yes the player caught diving may be banned (only if there is unanimous agreement on the panel) but the result of the match will still stand

The sky tv "panel" can't even agree on it half the time.

The comparison to Rugby is a moot one to me, Rugby is very technical and the rules are very clear and one bloke can say what he sees and action it, it is not often open to interpretation. The problem Rugby has is there are 4-5 infringement going on at once and the ref picks up the one he sees and the other 4 are missed. The refs make loads of errors in Rugby but only a few are sorted out with the video.
 

nick logan

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Good Karma that Hylton and his loveable Luton Town lost after that dive
 

kevalutonbee

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Good Karma that Hylton and his loveable Luton Town lost after that dive

Nathan Jones said after the game he was proud of the way his players approached the game. Presumably he is okay with players cheating then?
 

jlove

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I'm not sure why the retrospective analysis and possible punishment is any different to that of violent conduct missed during a match. The objective is to change players' behaviour - and that of coaches - and it seems a perfect way to do it. Technology can only be used for binary decisions, like crossing a line or not, and not for decisions that need professional interpretation.
 

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Whilst I agree with the notion that any card issued as a result of the dive should be rescinded, what happens if the card issued to the defender is red, the dive results in the award of a penalty which is scored and the final score is 1-0?

Yes the player caught diving may be banned (only if there is unanimous agreement on the panel) but the result of the match will still stand

But if this rule isn't introduced all the above happens without the cheat getting done and the innocent party being cleared.
 

nick logan

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Nathan Jones said after the game he was proud of the way his players approached the game. Presumably he is okay with players cheating then?

Can't stand him for some reason , i bet he smells and has little rat claw hands
 
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