Squad Utilisation by Team

Banana

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Interesting that Swansea are pointing out their lack of squad rotation and therefore lack of players that can be trusted to play a few 90 minute games...where as we are quite content and could use the same metric to prove that we are not expecting players to play 90 as we sub-off a lot.

 

Leonardo

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Sometimes less is more. Less (in terms of numbers) outstanding players and bolstered by developing players rather than a larger squad of average players
 

AB

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Interesting that Swansea are pointing out their lack of squad rotation and therefore lack of players that can be trusted to play a few 90 minute games...where as we are quite content and could use the same metric to prove that we are not expecting players to play 90 as we sub-off a lot.

Eh? We’re only one spot above them on this.
 

Opera Bee

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Ah yes, the famous “4 90’s” cut-off point.

This table would look completely different depending on where you draw this arbitrary line. I would guess our “12th and 13th men” (at a guess Fosu and Ghoddos?) have played some of the most minutes compared to other teams.
 

jlove

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It's always an error to try to find the data to support a presupposition. Start with a good set of data and use the resulting analysis to form your hypothesis.
 

Wise old Bee

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It's always an error to try to find the data to support a presupposition. Start with a good set of data and use the resulting analysis to form your hypothesis.
When I was a student it was always drummed into us that you form an hypothesis first, then test it against data. It is impossible to analyse data in any other way. Of course, that was in the 70s so much has changed since then.
 

jlove

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When I was a student it always drummed into us that you form an hypothesis first then test it against data. It is impossible to analyse data in any other way. Of course, that was in the 70s so much has changed since then.
OK, we were taught to start with some data, form your hypothesis, then use or expand the data to test your hypothesis, probably the same thing. This seems to be starting with a presupposition, which doesn't seem to be based on any data.
 

Bee(h)Iver

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A lot of this depends on injuries. We've been hampered by have long injuries to some of our guaranteed starters - Pontus, Norgaard and now Rico. Plus it's likely Goode, Emiliano, Baptiste and Roerslev would have had more starts as well.

But really, if everyone was fit, even with rotation we'd still have a fairly tight core group of players:

Raya
Dalsgaard, Jansson, Pinnock, Henry, MBS, Roerslev, Goode, Reid*
Jenson, JDS, Norgaard, Janelt, Ghoddos, Emiliano, Baptiste
Toney, Canos, Mbeumo, Fosu

So 20 players in all, and you could argue we wouldn't have signed Reid if it wasn't for the long term absence of Pontus and Charlie Goode.

On top of this you'd have a handful of squad players who would come on as subs but are unlikely to start unless covering for injury - in this list I'd include Daniels, Zamburek, Racic and Forss. And then the fringe players from the B team who are either close to first team (Bidstrup) or being fast tracked (Stevens, Gilbert, Haygarth)

I think the most surprising thing about the table is that Barnsley are not higher - all the other heavy press teams are above them and I would imagine that playing that way week in and out would really burn through players, although they do use subs early and often to offset this.

How much of this is really Swansea fans getting their excuses in early when they 🍼 the games in hand? ;)
 

LboroBee

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Interesting, but 1 dimensional - need an accompanying set showing % game time - us and Swansea may be lowest but have a higher level of true rotation, game time amongst players 12-17 for example. Whereas the higher ones may be more “throw all against the wall and see what sticks”.
Or not, some just have bigger squads.
 

Ealing Bee

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Interesting, but 1 dimensional - need an accompanying set showing % game time - us and Swansea may be lowest but have a higher level of true rotation, game time amongst players 12-17 for example. Whereas the higher ones may be more “throw all against the wall and see what sticks”.
Or not, some just have bigger squads.
Very true.

Plus there's another possible explanation, namely that some managers don't know their best XI so just keep rolling the dice in the hope they'll 'throw a Double Six', made worse if they suspect/fear that their players simply aren't good enough.

Another factor is change of manager. That is, if/when a new manager comes in mid-season, usually it's because the team has beeen struggling. Meaning that the new boss will often take a fresh look at the players that his predecessor has been ignoring.

All of which is exacerbated further if the new manager (or Director of Football) has signed a load of new players in the January window.

Or if you're Sheff Wed, where all of the above apply! :)

But apart from all that....
 

Paul O'Brien

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OK, we were taught to start with some data, form your hypothesis, then use or expand the data to test your hypothesis, probably the same thing. This seems to be starting with a presupposition, which doesn't seem to be based on any data.
I thought that you started with a hypothesis and examined the data to see if it supported the hypothesis. If it does, you then develop a theory from that because you now have evidence to substantiate your theory. If the data doesn't substantiate the hypothesis, you check the data then start again.
 

AB

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I thought that you started with a hypothesis and examined the data to see if it supported the hypothesis. If it does, you then develop a theory from that because you now have evidence to substantiate your theory. If the data doesn't substantiate the hypothesis, you check the data then start again.
It helps to have some data to base the hypothesis on if you don’t want to be asking random questions or ones to which the answer is unilluminating. It would probably be possible to create a data driven case for recruiting domestic players by their star signs but it’d basically be bobbins.
 

Invipai

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Yeah I'd say that wasn't perfect. 4+ 90's means nothing, as we're rotating through a player pool of about 14...with the wide forwards, CM roles and defenders switching through three players for two slots. So 6 slots out of 11 have been regularly rotated. The full backs, keeper and striker are the ones who haven't switched much (or only when required by injury).

We started our rotation pretty early on in the season, whereas Swansea seem to be rigidly sticking to the same 11/12 players. That *should* bode well for us, but that impact probably needs to start affecting their results sooner rather than later for it to really impact them.
 

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