Post Match Thread Stoke 3-2 Brentford

[beetee]

Mainly because he looked like he’d get sent off next challenge.

Bielsa would make a change whatever the reason... Hes known for it.

 

[Beecareful]

Great to see two strikers again. Towers and Francis. Holdsworth and Blisset. Toney and Forss? It may be unfashionable, but a lot better than seeing three central defenders today.

mcculloch and little stevie

 

[westendbee]

'Bit of a cock up on the tactical front' as Major Jimmy Anderson would say. Disappointing as we should have got a point out of that but it does seem to be a jinx ground.

We have NEVER won at Stoke - not in the Southern League pre WW1, not when we were finishing in the top 6 of Division 1 in the 1930s ... I guess some things just aren’t meant to be ...

 

[unBEEliveable]

Just seen the highlights on Quest three very poor goals given away but on a positive note we are 3 points better off than at this point last season

 

[b42long....]

Crap move on....

 

[Brentford Bob]

I’m not one if the Twitter anti TF types at all... far from, it in fact. But I’m disappointed that he didn’t shoulder the responsibility for that game. I’m also disappointed that in recent weeks, he’s been out-thought by Scott Parker, Alex O’Neill and now Michael O’Neill.

Improvements are necessary. Quickly.

 

[Doovster]

I’m not one if the Twitter anti TF types at all... far from, it in fact. But I’m disappointed that he didn’t shoulder the responsibility for that game. I’m also disappointed that in recent weeks, he’s been out-thought by Scott Parker, Alex O’Neill and now Michael O’Neill.

Improvements are necessary. Quickly.

No argument about Parker nor Alex O'neill.

I'm not sure M O out-thought him yesterday, I think Thomas out-thought himself in that first half. There was enough evidence in the second half that we would have had a lot more control of the game if we had started with the usual 433.

 

[AB]

Bielsa would make a change whatever the reason... Hes known for it.

He’s been a manager for a long time and is somewhat unique.

 

[Delbee]

mcculloch and little stevie

You could add Taylor and Forster

 

[GP200]

He’s been a manager for a long time and is somewhat unique.

..............please provide his somewhat unique qualities.............

 

[AB]

..............please provide his somewhat unique qualities.............

He’s without parallel in his ability to mime sitting on a bucket.

 

[beetee]

He’s without parallel in his ability to mime sitting on a bucket.

Haha... Anyone on here fancy doing that in their living room watching our next match and let us know how they get on trying to stand up afterwards

 

[To Bee Someone]

Looking at the highlights, two very poor goals to give away and then to be fair to Tyrese Campbell a lovely 3rd. Nice to see us battle back but it was too much for us in the end

 

[Bigbee]

their first goal was shocking defending , lower than Sunday park stuff

 

[andyrew]

In pre-corona days I’d have probably made a spur of the moment decision to drive down to watch that. Quite glad to have missed it!

The experimental line up looked worrying but then again I thought that ahead of the Southampton game. So I think TF and the players have earned the right to try something different, even if it is easy for us to say I told you so when it doesn’t work. Was losing this 3-2 worse than the 1-0 last season where on the back of 8 straight wins, knowing a win would have us with one foot in the PL and with our stars all in place we offered little? I didn’t see it so maybe it was. But that we did find a different way to claw two goals back and that despite the error of our set up in the first half, at least the second goal was one Raya would normally have saved, suggests that we’ve got more about us once we settle on the right approach to difficult games.

Doing that means sometimes experimenting and sometimes failing. TF is still quite a junior manager and has admitted that early season he isn’t always sure of exactly what the players can do in different set ups. Maybe this is the final nail in the coffin for 3CBs and the inadvertent fillip for the unfashionable 442 as a plan B. I hope and think they’ll learn from this. I’d much rather that than to be wedded to 433 regardless of its effectiveness against teams designed to stifle it.

It seems the fitness of the players and the number of games to be played over the next 10 weeks played a large part in determining the formation employed. We have quite a lot of injuries to our midfielders atm.

 

[HaylingBee74]

Games v Stoke are more aerial head tennis than football, so I can see considering using Pinnock, Goode, Mads, Janelt to give us the height and physical presence to combat it. However the four of them all seemed very one footed leaving gaps between them. When Rico returned from injury our defence looked more settled again, so his first half position seemed to waste his defensive qualities.

 

[beetee]

It seems the fitness of the players and the number of games to be played over the next 10 weeks played a large part in determining the formation employed. We have quite a lot of injuries to our midfielders atm.

Probably right... Im not knocking TF... He tried something different and it didnt work out.. Just wish he would have changed it quicker when it was obvious it wasnt working... Also when you have 3 centre backs and not one of them gets anywhere near Fletcher for his goal you got to wonder whether some of the players need to have a look at themselves aswell.

 

[gbems92]

Don't think we conceded more than 2 for the whole of last season, now weve done it twice in a few games. Need to rediscover that defensive steel

 

[Kingston Bee]

Probably right... Im not knocking TF... He tried something different and it didnt work out.. Just wish he would have changed it quicker when it was obvious it wasnt working... Also when you have 3 centre backs and not one of them gets anywhere near Fletcher for his goal you got to wonder whether some of the players need to have a look at themselves aswell.

I think that's fair comment, I did not see any criticism of the formation prior to kick off but as you say it quickly became evident that it was not working. TF took too long to change it imo.

 

[red_and_white]

On reflection, no issues from me with trying the 5 at the back

We needed to try a different way of playing against Stoke/Birmingham sides. It didn't work, and he changed it at half time. Fine. We learnt from it, and then later gained knowledge Toney and Forss can play together as an option. I would call it an option, rather than a solution, because we don't need to change from our usual formation for the majority of fixtures. It's an option for when we haven't broken a team down.

The losses of two leaders in Jansson and Norgaard are important. Losing two of your most experienced first team players can't be underestimated here.

The wide players are a bit of concern (form and bedding in), but these things change quite quickly. Looking forward to Norwich game.

 

[Andy_Mc_is_God]

So I have unbanned myself from this forum as I have read some crap on here today

I was hugely disappointed with TF post match comments. I would have respected him more if he said he 'owned' this defeat today. Ultimately, his selection lost us at least 1 point. I can too a degree understand why he went to a back 3 (with us being very light in midfield) but if he does then surely he must move HD as one of the back 3 (use his experience and a right footer) rather than using both Mads and Goode whom are still inexperienced at Championship level. Then use either Canos or Fosu as the right wing back with a bit of pace.

We are 4 points away from 2nd place still and this division this year from what I have seen is sh*te. The league is there for the taking. I still believe we have a strong squad but getting the balance right is the key for me. As I noted in the Toney thread the scout I spoke to noted 2 things, Toney will score loads for us but Goode is probably not the player (yet) for the promotion looking team. It is a big step up.

We are the second top scorers in the league but with one of the worst defensive records. CN is a huge lost but I would have taken a win against Coventry and 2 points in 2 tough away games at Wednesday and Stoke. We are 1 point up. We play 3 out of the next games at home and I expect 10 points.

Ghoddos will come good, can't for the life of me understand the criticism today of him give him a chance ffs and those that were critical of Jansson midweek should appreciate how important he is to the team.

Finally, try reading the Fulham forum tonight!

Agree IB, especially re HD and SG.
Still very frustrating after last Wednesday’s wonderful performance, result.
I personally like the idea of having a different formation to fall back on when things aren’t going well.
3 CB’s gives us the ability to play 5-3-1-1 (when under pressure at the back; Barnsley last season) or 3-5-2 (when the opposition gang up on Norgaard; Fulham at Wembley) - but you have to pick the right personnel. You have to have 3 ‘real‘ midfielders and athletic wing backs.
No problem with playing Godoss as but for the life of me I can’t understand why Jensen didn’t play if he was fit enough for the bench or why Sergi played if we’re playing with WB’s (isn’t the RWB just going to bump into the RW?). Better to play Sergi as a RWB and move Dalsgaard into the centre if Goode or Sorensen are not up to snuff/match fit.
Baffling but we need a plan B else we will fail once again.
Keep the faith.

 

[beetee]

Agree IB, especially re HD and SG.
Still very frustrating after last Wednesday’s wonderful performance, result.
I personally like the idea of having a different formation to fall back on when things aren’t going well.
3 CB’s gives us the ability to play 5-3-1-1 (when under pressure at the back; Barnsley last season) or 3-5-2 (when the opposition gang up on Norgaard; Fulham at Wembley) - but you have to pick the right personnel. You have to have 3 ‘real‘ midfielders and athletic wing backs.
No problem with playing Godoss as but for the life of me I can’t understand why Jensen didn’t play if he was fit enough for the bench or why Sergi played if we’re playing with WB’s (isn’t the RWB just going to bump into the RW?). Better to play Sergi as a RWB and move Dalsgaard into the centre if Goode or Sorensen are not up to snuff/match fit.
Baffling but we need a plan B else we will fail once again.
Keep the faith.

Tbf Jensen did look out on his feet at the end of the SW game... Maybe thought he needed a rest?

 

[Brentford Bob]

No argument about Parker nor Alex O'neill.

I'm not sure M O out-thought him yesterday, I think Thomas out-thought himself in that first half. There was enough evidence in the second half that we would have had a lot more control of the game if we had started with the usual 433.

Agreed. But I was thinking more about the game towards the end of last season, although I worded it badly by using ‘and now’.

 

[mhead bee]

Just seen the highlights on Quest three very poor goals given away but on a positive note we are 3 points better off than at this point last season

Thank god its so easy to be pragmatic after such a first half sh*t show lost us the game but hands up who would have have taken 2 points from SW and Stoke, I know I would. We got 3.

Reading are steaming away with the league at the moment, that is such a relief as we know they are rubbish and at leadt it isn't Watford or Bournemouth who would sustain it.

 

[Mr Tree]

we looked like a Sunday League team when we came out, looked a bit loose, unfocused...

and then we started the match like this:


just a bit naff, all in all. i'm always optimistic, but there were some pathetic bits of play yesterday. this might be the start of a new series I'm tentatively entitling "...and 10 seconds later, they scored":

 

[Banana]

Re the kick-off. It reminds me of the KO routine we had under Dodgin(?) whereby it was hit high to the right-hand touchline for two of our people to head. Never saw it work. Not even once.

 

[mhead bee]

we looked like a Sunday League team when we came out, looked a bit loose, unfocused...

and then we started the match like this:
View attachment 22960

just a bit naff, all in all. i'm always optimistic, but there were some pathetic bits of play yesterday. this might be the start of a new series I'm tentatively entitling "...and 10 seconds later, they scored":
View attachment 22968

A lot more to it than that. We have kicked off like that a few times recently and I watched the B team highlights and they are doing the same thing.

We are clearly trying something different from kicks off's so I wouldn't get too bent out of shape about it, it is not as if we just lost our minds and decided to hoof it as a once off.

Our set plays are superb and I expect this is the brain child of the same person and there is some kind of thinking behind it, maybe it is not being executed as well as it is in training.

 

[Mr Tree]

A lot more to it than that. We have kicked off like that a few times recently and I watched the B team highlights and they are doing the same thing.

We are clearly trying something different from kicks off's so I wouldn't get too bent out of shape about it, it is not as if we just lost our minds and decided to hoof it as a once off.

Our set plays are superb and I expect this is the brain child of the same person and there is some kind of thinking behind it, maybe it is not being executed as well as it is in training.

Yes sure - but look at the sloppiness. Poor pass from Sergi, rushed aimless hoof from Ethan... Hardly set a good tone. That said, they promptly hoofed it straight back to us

 

[I'll Bee Damned]

their first goal was shocking defending , lower than Sunday park stuff

I agree. Don't really want to single players out for the first, there were lots of poor defending decisions judging by the highlights, but Sorensen watches the ball too much and despite quick glances to see where Fletcher was doesn't make any effort to get closer to him. Goode is in no man's land, not marking not dropping back towards goal.
If the crosser had dinked it towards the penalty spot (tricky given JDS showing him outside) there was another free man there too.

Both other goals come from the right where Goode is pulled into the right back position because of the formation.

Bit of a perfect storm of formation and shoddy defending I reckon

 

[King Bee]

Re the kick-off. It reminds me of the KO routine we had under Dodgin(?) whereby it was hit high to the right-hand touchline for two of our people to head. Never saw it work. Not even once.

It was used during Holder’s time too...

 

[Bangor Bee]

Re the kick-off. It reminds me of the KO routine we had under Dodgin(?) whereby it was hit high to the right-hand touchline for two of our people to head. Never saw it work. Not even once.

Certainly it won't work as long as whoever is punting the ball upfield cannot get it anywhere near our advancing players.

 

[HaylingBee74]

With taking the knee happening before kick off, it seems many players arent as focused as usual. Maybe worth trying a Paul Evans from the halfway line