General Summer 2022 Transfer Window

aslan

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Fun fact*, his name roughly translates to "lesson learnt".
In defence it was probably a fairly cheap deal and I'm not sure signing a substitute goalkeeper for your substitute goalkeeper is an easy job.

*may not be true.
 

StevieSteve

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Fun fact*, his name roughly translates to "lesson learnt".
In defence it was probably a fairly cheap deal and I'm not sure signing a substitute goalkeeper for your substitute goalkeeper is an easy job.

*may not be true.
Brave statement, given our Danish readership.
 

HerefordB

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Might be able to plunder from Notts Forest if they fail in the Play Offs?
 

AB

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If they don’t go up we’ll definitely go in for Johnson again, although there’ll be a lot of competition.
I’m not sure they have anyone particularly great other than him. Most of their better players are loanees.
 

BuzzingBee95

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I do think that we've been a bit unfair to Alvaro - he was stuck in the net during the team's absolute lowest point of the season. He didn't look great, but no one did. xG measurements suggest that he saved more than his fair share of shots. He's clearly a good shot-stopper, but needs to learn the command of the area. Only 24 years old. I think that the team has high hopes for Matthew Cox as well, but I think Alvaro isn't a bad choice for back up and could even start on a handful of teams in the Premier league, or the La Liga if he wanted to go back to Spain.
Great post. I think his poor distribution immediately led people to discredit him. The truth is we are almost spoil to have a keeper with David’s range of passing. Yes in the box Alvaro did sometimes lose his positioning, but he is a genuinely good shot stopper and I can remember a few of them quite well. With right development, he’ll come good. People will say we can do a lot better, you can do a lot worse too ( Kepa 😂).
 

CTBee

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I’m not sure they have anyone particularly great other than him. Most of their better players are loanees.
Is Garner on loan there? I've always thought he looks decent
 

Brentford77

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Great post. I think his poor distribution immediately led people to discredit him. The truth is we are almost spoil to have a keeper with David’s range of passing. Yes in the box Alvaro did sometimes lose his positioning, but he is a genuinely good shot stopper and I can remember a few of them quite well. With right development, he’ll come good. People will say we can do a lot better, you can do a lot worse too ( Kepa 😂).
Totally agree. I actually think Alvaro has the potential to develop into a first choice. Raya is clearly off and normal scale and comparisons are unhelpful because you'd want an Ederson or similar if we wanted a shoe-in replacement and that ain't going to happen. His shot stopping with the notable exception of Soton away, 2nd goal, was first rate and whilst his distribution was a way short of Raya, so can be said of over 99% of footballers in world football. I think he lost his confidence towards the end of his run but that was as much due to the musical chairs going on in front of him with a constantly changing makeshift back 5. I personally would not hesitate to make his loan permanent and continue to develop him.

My guess is that if his stint had coincided with a stable team around him (an advantage that has been afforded to CE), we would all be saying what a great #2 he is.
 

shepperton bee

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Wouldn’t write off Alvaro just yet , as others have said his time in the team coincided with our injury crisis and the general turmoil in the defence . It’s easy to lose sight of the fact that before our really terrible run we ground out some vital wins against Everton , Watford and Vila and a couple of draws as well all of which he played in and made some vital saves.
That’s 11 points which have proved pretty crucial so even if he does leave he deserves credit as he has still been an important part of our amazing season at a time when we really had our backs to the wall !!
 

Mr Cynical

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Wouldn’t write off Alvaro just yet , as others have said his time in the team coincided with our injury crisis and the general turmoil in the defence . It’s easy to lose sight of the fact that before our really terrible run we ground out some vital wins against Everton , Watford and Vila and a couple of draws as well all of which he played in and made some vital saves.
That’s 11 points which have proved pretty crucial so even if he does leave he deserves credit as he has still been an important part of our amazing season at a time when we really had our backs to the wall !!
Good point. He struggled at times but wasn’t helped at all by our defence completely losing it for a period. Can’t all be his fault. Raya wasn’t great with crosses when he joined and has improved considerably since.
 

brighton bee

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All those saying Alvaro was unlucky as his time in the team coincided with our poor form…IMO he was one of the main reasons FOR our poor form.

And not just his distribution, he was completely bullied on set pieces, and soon enough targeted as a result. The defence clearly didn’t trust him.

He’s nowhere near good enough to be even number 2/3 next year. I’d personally bring in a new number 2 who we can trust to step in, keep Lossl as 3 if cheap. Cox out on loan.
 

Mr Cynical

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All those saying Alvaro was unlucky as his time in the team coincided with our poor form…IMO he was one of the main reasons FOR our poor form.

And not just his distribution, he was completely bullied on set pieces, and soon enough targeted as a result. The defence clearly didn’t trust him.

He’s nowhere near good enough to be even number 2/3 next year. I’d personally bring in a new number 2 who we can trust to step in, keep Lossl as 3 if cheap. Cox out on loan.
It’s all a little too easy to pin all the blame on Alvaro. The fact is nothing changed defensively even when a more experienced keeper came in. Quite a few players were all over the shop at that point.. I’m not saying we necessarily should sign him but I think he’s rather unfairly shouldered all the blame for others poor performances..
 

Deanos196

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Most of the keepers most on here know either play for us or in the English league if everyone honestly thinks there’s no better keeper than alvaro available in the world for 5mil we must all be mad

I feel for him he got chucked in at the deep end,we need a sub/first team ready keeper not a player to develop that’s what the b teams for
 

Brandy

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Alvaro is a good shot stopper, superior to a much older Lossl, if you watch the shooting warm ups before games you can see this. Clearly he needed to go away and work on his distribution and aerial presence with crosses but I see no reason why this can’t be improved on in training. So I’m not sure we should be writing him off just yet.
 

Beelieve!

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Anyone linked with Brentford will add a premium - I reckon agents will use our reputation to hike up the price. Because if we think they are good, they must be good.

Re Signing Eriksen will be the best it of business if we manage it
 

AB

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Alvaro is a good shot stopper, superior to a much older Lossl, if you watch the shooting warm ups before games you can see this. Clearly he needed to go away and work on his distribution and aerial presence with crosses but I see no reason why this can’t be improved on in training. So I’m not sure we should be writing him off just yet.
The club will have seen a lot more of Alvaro’s underlying ability, personality, work and development to have a strong idea of the player he could become. Even on bare stats his save rate and GA compared to xGA are decent among “other 14” keepers, in fact iirc slightly better than Raya’s until recently. That suggests a big impact from the players in front of him, though our drop in xGF at the time will also have flowed in part from him not having distributed as dangerously as Rata, putting more pressure on the team to defend more.

If the club believes he realistically has it in him to improve his distribution and command (neither of which were brilliant for Raya early on) they’ll stick with him. It’s worth remembering that until his injury, McCarthy at Southampton was one of the top performing keepers and we’d thought him terrible when we had him on loan as a 21 year old in L1. Some said we should have kept Luke Daniels but despite getting a lot of games this season he’s not been very good for Boro.
 

TadB

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Most of the keepers most on here know either play for us or in the English league if everyone honestly thinks there’s no better keeper than alvaro available in the world for 5mil we must all be mad

I feel for him he got chucked in at the deep end,we need a sub/first team ready keeper not a player to develop that’s what the b teams for
So where did the £5million figure come from then?
 
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We have been successful in recruiting talent from Leagues 1 and 2 who have been oven ready for Championship but feel Prem would be a step too far initially. With restrictions/competition on recruiting overseas talent I wondered if club are considering recruiting from lower leagues with a view to loaning out to championship clubs? Stock piling for the future over 1 or 2 seasons as opposed to years going thru an academy. Obviously we shall need several players each season to play in Prem immediately to improve squad.
 

Deanos196

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Complete guesswork I think.
Rough guesswork yeah
If he’s 2 mil we probably think that’s a steal for a young international Spanish keeper with olympics? Under his belt probably would’ve just signed him for that, if he’s 10mil we probably think that’s too dear for a young unproven goalie in the prem who’s only played 2nd division Spanish football pretty simple really
 

jlove

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We have been successful in recruiting talent from Leagues 1 and 2 who have been oven ready for Championship but feel Prem would be a step too far initially. With restrictions/competition on recruiting overseas talent I wondered if club are considering recruiting from lower leagues with a view to loaning out to championship clubs? Stock piling for the future over 1 or 2 seasons as opposed to years going thru an academy. Obviously we shall need several players each season to play in Prem immediately to improve squad.
On our budget, I hope we’re going to spend it on players who can challenge for starting places, once settled in. I doubt we’d want to use it up on ‘maybe’ players who can’t get into our B squad.
 

TadB

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Rough guesswork yeah
If he’s 2 mil we probably think that’s a steal for a young international Spanish keeper with olympics? Under his belt probably would’ve just signed him for that, if he’s 10mil we probably think that’s too dear for a young unproven goalie in the prem who’s only played 2nd division Spanish football pretty simple really
One million with a sell on more like it. We were probably only able to sign him because of his one technical international cap. That said, he is a raw talent who we judged could be improved, if now we have worked with him he has shown that he can fulfil that potential we will keep him, if not it is good bye in a few weeks.
 
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On our budget, I hope we’re going to spend it on players who can challenge for starting places, once settled in. I doubt we’d want to use it up on ‘maybe’ players who can’t get into our B squad.
A top player in league 1 or 2, such as Watkins, Sawyers, Henry, etc are not going to join us to play in our B team. I don't think investing 1 or 2 million in.potential or maybe players as you term it is wasted investment. We only need a Watkins in every 15 players to make a return on our investment. Luckily Brentford think outside the box, embrace it.
 

jlove

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A top player in league 1 or 2, such as Watkins, Sawyers, Henry, etc are not going to join us to play in our B team. I don't think investing 1 or 2 million in.potential or maybe players as you term it is wasted investment. We only need a Watkins in every 15 players to make a return on our investment. Luckily Brentford think outside the box, embrace it.
I was commenting specifically on the idea that we sign lower league players and loan them out.
 
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I was commenting specifically on the idea that we sign lower league players and loan them out.
My point is that none of the players I referenced could have stepped from lower leagues straight into premier league. However after a season or two in the championship they could progress to the premier league. So how do you square that circle? Not fish in that pond and miss out on the huge potential or the maybe players to use your terminology.
 

TOXIC BEE

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Apparently, we are interested i Hamari Traoré from Stade Rennais. He is a 30 year old right back, so it's a different case compared to Hickey and Spence.
Mercato : Hamari Traoré suivi par Brentford ?
He’s a really good player, 10 assists this season in Ligue 1. Could be that we believe Roerslev can develop into a long term solution at right back, therefore an older option who can come in and perform now might be attractive, with Roerslev taking over after.
 

AB

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My point is that none of the players I referenced could have stepped from lower leagues straight into premier league. However after a season or two in the championship they could progress to the premier league. So how do you square that circle? Not fish in that pond and miss out on the huge potential or the maybe players to use your terminology.
Developing players by just loaning them out is possibly harder and riskier than by getting ones who can in a reasonable period of time come through within the squad. With B team players they get a thorough Brentford grounding then go on loan to hone particular things like their ability to play competitive adult football. With first team squad who have come from academies they might just need the Brentfording (eg JDS). Players who have already had 1-2 seasons as regular top performers in L1-2 can develop with a Championship loan but not really ever get Brentforded or feel part of us after that loan when they might see a PL club offering to take them straight in as part of the first team group (slightly different but eg Halil- why fight your way in knowing you’re 2nd or 3rd choice when you are a top division star and international already). We may need to accept that we will not be a better pathway for the top L1-2 players than for them to get bought by a Championship club who really value them right now (as we did when at that level so coming to us was way better for Watkins’ development than accepting the reported interest from PL clubs 3 years before he got there). In retrospect the idea of getting the stars of 4 years time for pennies seems great when they make it but in reality most will be like Toney going to Newcastle as a teen and get nowhere near with them (iirc we concluded he wasn’t for us when Newcastle were ready to sell, he needed the investment in development Peterboro could give him).
 

jlove

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My point is that none of the players I referenced could have stepped from lower leagues straight into premier league. However after a season or two in the championship they could progress to the premier league. So how do you square that circle? Not fish in that pond and miss out on the huge potential or the maybe players to use your terminology.
So, we're commenting on two entirely different things.
 

Les Beeavinu

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One thing that might temper our transfer ambitions is that some of our players are going to know that they are underpaid for a top 10 side (if we made that) so if we want to keep them, they'll be looking for bigger contracts. I could easily see our wage bill increasing significantly next season.
 
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Developing players by just loaning them out is possibly harder and riskier than by getting ones who can in a reasonable period of time come through within the squad. With B team players they get a thorough Brentford grounding then go on loan to hone particular things like their ability to play competitive adult football. With first team squad who have come from academies they might just need the Brentfording (eg JDS). Players who have already had 1-2 seasons as regular top performers in L1-2 can develop with a Championship loan but not really ever get Brentforded or feel part of us after that loan when they might see a PL club offering to take them straight in as part of the first team group (slightly different but eg Halil- why fight your way in knowing you’re 2nd or 3rd choice when you are a top division star and international already). We may need to accept that we will not be a better pathway for the top L1-2 players than for them to get bought by a Championship club who really value them right now (as we did when at that level so coming to us was way better for Watkins’ development than accepting the reported interest from PL clubs 3 years before he got there). In retrospect the idea of getting the stars of 4 years time for pennies seems great when they make it but in reality most will be like Toney going to Newcastle as a teen and get nowhere near with them (iirc we concluded he wasn’t for us when Newcastle were ready to sell, he needed the investment in development Peterboro could give him).
I agree with the points you make but hope we can find a way around, buy and loan being a possible option, of not missing out of the next Ollie Watkins. We know that a player developed in the championship and ready to make the step up to the Prem will cost £20M to £30M, whilst getting him a season or two early from say league 2 would cost under £5M. Feel the gap in standard from our B team to our 1st team is now so huge this not an option to Brentfordise young players with any decent EFL experience.
 

AB

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One thing that might temper our transfer ambitions is that some of our players are going to know that they are underpaid for a top 10 side (if we made that) so if we want to keep them, they'll be looking for bigger contracts. I could easily see our wage bill increasing significantly next season.
I don’t know about that. I think they’ll have a pretty strong idea about where we stand as a club in terms of how we will pay and that we and they haven’t got here by spending what bigger clubs would. Back in August Fulham and Bournemouth could probably have paid any of them more than we did despite being a division below. Marcondes probably got more to be a reserve at Bournemouth than some of our PL regular starters. The ones who’ve signed extensions will have got a nice raise but still less than several PL clubs would pay them. Wages will rise but I think we’ll just sell anyone who angles for anything silly. I suspect we might now have nice bonuses for EL/ECL (CL?!) qualification but still budget on the basis of finishing 20th.
 

Les Beeavinu

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I don’t know about that. I think they’ll have a pretty strong idea about where we stand as a club in terms of how we will pay and that we and they haven’t got here by spending what bigger clubs would. Back in August Fulham and Bournemouth could probably have paid any of them more than we did despite being a division below. Marcondes probably got more to be a reserve at Bournemouth than some of our PL regular starters. The ones who’ve signed extensions will have got a nice raise but still less than several PL clubs would pay them. Wages will rise but I think we’ll just sell anyone who angles for anything silly. I suspect we might now have nice bonuses for EL/ECL (CL?!) qualification but still budget on the basis of finishing 20th.
In which case, we might have to prepare ourselves for some big outgoing transfers.
 

AB

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I agree with the points you make but hope we can find a way around, buy and loan being a possible option, of not missing out of the next Ollie Watkins. We know that a player developed in the championship and ready to make the step up to the Prem will cost £20M to £30M, whilst getting him a season or two early from say league 2 would cost under £5M. Feel the gap in standard from our B team to our 1st team is now so huge this not an option to Brentfordise young players with any decent EFL experience.
I think as we establish we might just accept that £20-25m is our level of buying for core players to drive us on. There’ll still be cleverly spotted players at <<£5m but they’ll be ones with immediate potential (Vitaly!). £5m for a L2 star who needs 2-3 years well away from our first team and might never get there is poor value if we can find more Wissas at £8m.
 

andyrew

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I don’t know about that. I think they’ll have a pretty strong idea about where we stand as a club in terms of how we will pay and that we and they haven’t got here by spending what bigger clubs would. Back in August Fulham and Bournemouth could probably have paid any of them more than we did despite being a division below. Marcondes probably got more to be a reserve at Bournemouth than some of our PL regular starters. The ones who’ve signed extensions will have got a nice raise but still less than several PL clubs would pay them. Wages will rise but I think we’ll just sell anyone who angles for anything silly. I suspect we might now have nice bonuses for EL/ECL (CL?!) qualification but still budget on the basis of finishing 20th.
Don't think that's very likely really.
 

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In which case, we might have to prepare ourselves for some big outgoing transfers.
That is always going to be the case - we will always be a "selling" club. How we replace any outgoings will be key and while I am sure we are doing so in as best way we possibly can it's clear we are operating at a completely different and much more difficult level transfer marketwise. This summer is going to be one where we all need to be patient and trust in the process - which the oddballs on social media are going to massively struggle with I fear!
 
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I think as we establish we might just accept that £20-25m is our level of buying for core players to drive us on. There’ll still be cleverly spotted players at <<£5m but they’ll be ones with immediate potential (Vitaly!). £5m for a L2 star who needs 2-3 years well away from our first team and might never get there is poor value if we can find more Wissas at £8m.
Yes Wissa at the reported £8M was a bargain, but his salary demands and expectations to play 1st team be considerably higher than a young player from Exeter who we could pick up for less than £2M. We need both options moving forward. VJ was the bargain of the century, almost like winning the lottery.
 

AB

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Yes Wissa at the reported £8M was a bargain, but his salary demands and expectations to play 1st team be considerably higher than a young player from Exeter who we could pick up for less than £2M. We need both options moving forward. VJ was the bargain of the century, almost like winning the lottery.
The sensible future star at Exeter chooses an ambitious midtable Championship team who offer him first team matches and a great development pathway over a move to a PL team. As indeed Watkins did.
 
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The sensible future star at Exeter chooses an ambitious midtable Championship team who offer him first team matches and a great development pathway over a move to a PL team. As indeed Watkins did.
I do not know what offers he received from Prem clubs and what pathways they indicated open to him to play 1st team football. I shall bow to your greater knowledge on these negotiations.
 

AB

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I do not know what offers he received from Prem clubs and what pathways they indicated open to him to play 1st team football. I shall bow to your greater knowledge on these negotiations.
Everton were one. He’s said that the big clinchers were our approach, broader development offer and the fact that we’d been interested for a long time before he became EFL young player of the season. If there’s another Ollie out there we like we have probably already built the relationship. It might be that’ll include not going for them until later and maybe even letting them get their agent to approach us when they’re ready.

There must be some but I’m struggling to think of any current good PL players who were bought from L1-2 at 21 or so then had a couple of years on loan before making it- excluding those whose clubs were in a lower division when they bought them. The norm is I think much more that players bought early that way do their loans, don’t look any more ready for the PL than when they were bought as a raw, hungry teen then get bought by a lower division team (eg Ivan). Maybe we have more cleverness in our set up so the likes of Fin Stevens will buck that.
 
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