Team v Sheff Wed

Mr Cynical

Well-known member
Joined
1 Jul 2000
Messages
12,043
Reaction score
896
Location
London
According to Frank injuries to Toney and Marcondes are 'nothing to be worried about' so expect both to be in the squad on Wed.. Three tough games coming up in a week in Sheff W, Stoke and Norwich. Question is when and how do we rotate to keep players fresh? Don't think we'll swap things around too much tomorrow so would go with..

Raya, Dalsgaard, Pontus, Pinnock, Henry, Jensen, DaSilva, Marcondes, Fosu, Toney, Mbuemo

Subs: Daniels, Thompson, Goode (if fit), Janelt, Canos, Ghoddos, Forss

Bring on Janelt and Ghoddos around 60 and poss Pontus or Dalsgaard when we're 3-0 up! ;)
 

Wooburn Bee

Active member
Joined
22 Feb 2006
Messages
2,779
Reaction score
50
According to Frank injuries to Toney and Marcondes are 'nothing to be worried about' so expect both to be in the squad on Wed.. Three tough games coming up in a week in Sheff W, Stoke and Norwich. Question is when and how do we rotate to keep players fresh? Don't think we'll swap things around too much tomorrow so would go with..

Raya, Dalsgaard, Pontus, Pinnock, Henry, Jensen, DaSilva, Marcondes, Fosu, Toney, Mbuemo

Subs: Daniels, Thompson, Goode (if fit), Janelt, Canos, Ghoddos, Forss

Bring on Janelt and Ghoddos around 60 and poss Pontus or Dalsgaard when we're 3-0 up! ;)
I think this is the most likely team as Thomas may be wary of starting Canos again after he played full 90 minutes on Saturday. Fosu also scored against Wednesday in last game at griffin park with fans which won’t do his confidence any harm going into this game.
 

psg150

Active member
Joined
12 Jan 2014
Messages
1,747
Reaction score
72
Location
Hanwell
6 games in the next 18 days. There is going to be serious rotation at some point. Twitter will explode.
 

Leedsbee

Active member
Joined
17 Nov 2006
Messages
1,252
Reaction score
89
I know points are just as important now as later in the season,but this whole covid football feels like a bit of a phoney war.I'd like to see the squad utilised .Fosu deserves to get a game either spelling Sergi,Bryan or Henrik.Marcus maybe if Ivan not fully recovered.Mads Bech for Pontus in one of the next two games.
 

JANORAK

Active member
Joined
14 Nov 2003
Messages
5,141
Reaction score
109
Location
A goal kick from Harrow Borough FC
I think this is the most likely team as Thomas may be wary of starting Canos again after he played full 90 minutes on Saturday. Fosu also scored against Wednesday in last game at griffin park with fans which won’t do his confidence any harm going into this game.
Rotation is all very well, but TF doesn’t usually do it wholesale. I’d get the ball rolling (ha, ha) with Bryan. One ‘worldie’ every 6 weeks doesn’t cover him being out of form generally. Not starting could do him good, maybe relieve any pressure to match last season etc. Fosu and Canos would give plenty of fizz up and down the wings, with BM the alternative, late on.
 

jlove

Well-known member
Joined
17 Dec 2002
Messages
32,911
Reaction score
504
Location
Vaison-la-Romaine
I'd agree with Fosu starting for Canós, given Sergi played the full 90 on Saturday, which is quite unusual. Sørensen for Jansson has some appeal but seeing Pinnock playing right of Mads Bech struck me as a significant weakness as Ethan always wants to use his left foot. Depending on the way the game plays out, I'd expect early substitutes as well, with Ghoddos and Janelt getting more minutes.
 

TheHairdresser

Active member
Joined
22 Dec 2018
Messages
1,728
Reaction score
38
I have no idea as our form is bouncing around a bit both between and during matches this season. Need a settled fast start t'row so I'd probably go for a unchanged XI but am mindful that the Monkowls are a completely different kettle of fish than our last opponents.

Clutching at straws but Bryan always scores against this lot so he's probably a shoe-in even though he's playing in 2nd gear at the mo.
 

Shamrock_Bee

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2020
Messages
65
Reaction score
39
I hope I'm wrong but I don't see us winning at Sheff Wed or Stoke playing Jensen, Da Silva and Marcondes as a midfield three. We know Monk's tactics will be to target that area with a high press and to be nice about it a lot of physiciality.

Jensen was excellent on Saturday and has many qualities but Coventry are similar to us in they like to keep the ball on the floor and play football; they're not a physical team, it suited Jensen and the midfield in general.

I do often think why we don't change our tactics or come up with something different against certain systems; it's obvious over the last two years where we struggle. Losing Norgaard makes us weaker in that area even further and I hope we don't decide to just turn up at Sheffield tomorrow and think it worked against Coventry so lets go again.

I suspect TF will react to what happened in the second half of Preston and either move to three at the back to increase the numbers in midfield; or keep the same system but start Janelt with with Da Silva and one of Jensen or Marcondes.
 

nick logan

Well-known member
Joined
6 Apr 2000
Messages
30,901
Reaction score
528
Location
Essex
I hope I'm wrong but I don't see us winning at Sheff Wed or Stoke playing Jensen, Da Silva and Marcondes as a midfield three. We know Monk's tactics will be to target that area with a high press and to be nice about it a lot of physiciality.

Jensen was excellent on Saturday and has many qualities but Coventry are similar to us in they like to keep the ball on the floor and play football; they're not a physical team, it suited Jensen and the midfield in general.

I do often think why we don't change our tactics or come up with something different against certain systems; it's obvious over the last two years where we struggle. Losing Norgaard makes us weaker in that area even further and I hope we don't decide to just turn up at Sheffield tomorrow and think it worked against Coventry so lets go again.

I suspect TF will react to what happened in the second half of Preston and either move to three at the back to increase the numbers in midfield; or keep the same system but start Janelt with with Da Silva and one of Jensen or Marcondes.
Preston was a one off ( as proved by their other results this season )
see also Villa 7 Liverpool 2 and Man u 1 spurs 6 on same day.

I do agree that these will be hard games but the best way is to play to our strengths like when we beat them 5-0 :sorted:
 

Shamrock_Bee

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2020
Messages
65
Reaction score
39
Preston was a one off ( as proved by their other results this season )
see also Villa 7 Liverpool 2 and Man u 1 spurs 6 on same day.

I do agree that these will be hard games but the best way is to play to our strengths like when we beat them 5-0 :sorted:
True it's good to be positive; whilst I don't think the Preston second half meltdown will happen too often or again I feel there is a slight problem. They used similar tactics against us last season and the fact their other results have been bad may show they've us worked out.

We tend to struggle in these type of games but still turn up and play our system; maybe it's time we looked at changing it up slightly to counteract the high press and physicality.

Lets hope I'm wrong and we have at least an extra 4 points by Saturday evening whatever system or team we go with.
 

Lozza

Member
Joined
4 Apr 2006
Messages
51
Reaction score
4
Raya
Dalsgaard Jansson Pinnock Henry
Baptiste (if fit or Janelt) Da Silva Jensen
Mbeumo Toney Fosu
 

jlove

Well-known member
Joined
17 Dec 2002
Messages
32,911
Reaction score
504
Location
Vaison-la-Romaine
We need to play to our strengths with our style of play. If we try to play for 0-0, we’ll lose. What was noticeable in periods of the Coventry game was that Jensen and Dasilva positioned as a deeper pair, with Marcondes more a 10. I’d guess this was no accident.
 
OP
M

Mr Cynical

Well-known member
Joined
1 Jul 2000
Messages
12,043
Reaction score
896
Location
London
True it's good to be positive; whilst I don't think the Preston second half meltdown will happen too often or again I feel there is a slight problem. They used similar tactics against us last season and the fact their other results have been bad may show they've us worked out.

We tend to struggle in these type of games but still turn up and play our system; maybe it's time we looked at changing it up slightly to counteract the high press and physicality.

Lets hope I'm wrong and we have at least an extra 4 points by Saturday evening whatever system or team we go with.
I think we will change things tactically slightly, we'll probably go more direct and try and get in behind their full backs which is what we did against Leeds and Fulham at home last season. Expect less playing it out from the back unless it opens up a little. I think we're getting our knickers in a twist a bit though about the high press and physicality. Whilst we didn't play well at all v Preston we were still 2 up at HT and probably should have been out of sight. 9 times out of 10 we'd see that out. It took a complete meltdown from 90% of the team, including our most experienced players for that result to occur when we'd actually started the second half reasonably well. I'd really hope that wouldn't happen again for a long time.. Sheff W haven't been tearing up any trees either. They went pretty direct it seems like against Birmingham and allowed them 60% possession... Plus it's not nearly so intimidating going to Hillsborough when there's no-one in the stands. Home/Away seems to be making little difference at the moment. We've def got enough about us to win there whatever team we put out but we do need to play our game as much as possible, changing too much will just play into their hands I feel.
 

nathanbee

Member
Joined
1 Sep 2009
Messages
349
Reaction score
37
Raya
Dalsgaard Jansson Pinnock Henry
Janelt
Dasilva Jensen
Mbeumo Toney Canos
Probably this!
Although would like to see Ghoddos start in place of Canos. I think Sergi has done a decent enough job so far but need to see if Ghoddos can add that extra bit of quality.
 

Bigbee

Well-known member
Joined
5 Apr 2000
Messages
27,816
Reaction score
141
Location
Crondall,Nr Farnham
I just read this on the OS about tomorrows ref , SW , a cynical fouling bunch ?


Sheffield Wednesday 2020/21

78 fouls - 2nd most in Sky Bet Championship
 

Invipai

Active member
Joined
29 Jul 2011
Messages
6,625
Reaction score
176
Location
Brentford, London
I'd play Janelt here, I think Weds will go at us more than Stoke will, and therefore he'd be better used in the game tomorrow. We will have to get used to a bit more rotation, which as mentioned above, those on social media will be no doubt complaining about...

Raya
Standard back 4.
Janelt
Jensen - DaSilva
Bryan - Toney - Fosu.

I wouldn't be surprised if either Ghoddos or Canos started however.
 

upnorthbee

Active member
Joined
3 Jan 2006
Messages
1,366
Reaction score
119
Location
Singapore
Would be great to see Vitaly and Saman get starts, just out of pure curiosity more than anything.
Do you drop Jensen though? (Who was given the space to be show his quality v Coventry), or Marcondes? (Who provided an excellent assist and can get you a goal from nothing)

I'd like to see Canos used as a sub.
 
OP
M

Mr Cynical

Well-known member
Joined
1 Jul 2000
Messages
12,043
Reaction score
896
Location
London
Would be great to see Vitaly and Saman get starts, just out of pure curiosity more than anything.
Do you drop Jensen though? (Who was given the space to be show his quality v Coventry), or Marcondes? (Who provided an excellent assist and can get you a goal from nothing)

I'd like to see Canos used as a sub.
Think both need to get fully fit first, Saman in particular looks well short of match fitness.. No sign of Hammar or Maghoma at B team game today though so suspect they're with the first team squad which perhaps suggests Marcondes might not be fully fit after Saturday's knock?
 

readingbee

Active member
Joined
19 Feb 2001
Messages
6,978
Reaction score
105
Location
Cranleigh
Think both need to get fully fit first, Saman in particular looks well short of match fitness.. No sign of Hammar or Maghoma at B team game today though so suspect they're with the first team squad which perhaps suggests Marcondes might not be fully fit after Saturday's knock?
Isn’t Maghoma injured or at least getting over an injury?
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
10,559
Reaction score
444
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
Unless TF is indulging in a bit of kidology/expectation management about Janelt’s readiness I’d be very surprised to see him start. I think it’ll be the usual line up with 3 of Janelt, Fosu, Forss and Ghoddos to come on between 60-75 minutes depending on game state. We took them apart under Monk and there’s no reason why playing our normal game but with Jensen and Da Silva more withdrawn we can’t impose ourselves again.

Raya
Dalsgaard Jansson Pinnock Henry
Jensen Marcondes Da Silva
Mbeumo Toney Canos
 

hardybee

Member
Joined
27 Jan 2011
Messages
515
Reaction score
38
Unless TF is indulging in a bit of kidology/expectation management about Janelt’s readiness I’d be very surprised to see him start. I think it’ll be the usual line up with 3 of Janelt, Fosu, Forss and Ghoddos to come on between 60-75 minutes depending on game state. We took them apart under Monk and there’s no reason why playing our normal game but with Jensen and Da Silva more withdrawn we can’t impose ourselves again.

Raya
Dalsgaard Jansson Pinnock Henry
Jensen Marcondes Da Silva
Mbeumo Toney Canos
Took them apart last time....however no Watkins, Said or Norgaard. Obviously Toney has come in and scoring goals, the other two are a big loss. I imagine it will be a completely different game tonight. I would go with your team though 👍🏼
 

Bill Benn

Well-known member
Joined
2 Mar 2001
Messages
12,828
Reaction score
191
Location
Just Cheltenham
You would hope he does , but hasnt in the past , No Christian ,I wonder if its a step too soon for Vitaly
Thomas said after saturdays game Jensen has to show he can play in Norguaards position and said he was t very good against Preston.Hope Vitaly gets a start in the next couple games along with Baptiste then we will have strong competition when Norguaard is fit
 

Isleworth_Bee

Well-known member
Joined
18 Jan 2005
Messages
21,648
Reaction score
434
Location
Basingstoke
Thomas said after saturdays game Jensen has to show he can play in Norguaards position and said he was t very good against Preston.Hope Vitaly gets a start in the next couple games along with Baptiste then we will have strong competition when Norguaard is fit
Hasnt played in weeks and will be way off match sharpness and fitness. Can we just trust the lads we have who are available.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AB

Leedsbee

Active member
Joined
17 Nov 2006
Messages
1,252
Reaction score
89
Raya
Fosu, Jansson, Pinnock, Henry
Janelt
Da Silva Jensen
Canos , Toney, Mbuemo
 

Isleworth_Bee

Well-known member
Joined
18 Jan 2005
Messages
21,648
Reaction score
434
Location
Basingstoke
I dont understand the whole "change the team to deal with the physicality".

What we have to do is ensure we are on our game. We've torn teams like this apart, its only highlighted when we have an off day against them. But the same can be said about the ball playing teams that we lose against.

If we want to win promotion and compete with better teams then we need to make them worry about us and not talk about wholesale changes because we worry about them kicking us off the park.

Football fans are such a funny bunch especially the weird new lot on Twitter who think its the end of the world when one or two players have a below par game and calling out the manager etc on team selection before the games even begun.

The Coventry selection drew all sorts of bile and abuse.................... We went on to win 2-0. Trust our players, we are in transition and bedding in a few new players and trying to get the confidence back into the ones that gave so much at the end of the last campaign.

Yes we need to be aware of the physicality of certain sides that may require a tweak in selection and tactics, but changing 2-3 players out because they are the scapegoats of the moment doesnt sit well with me. A midfield three of JDS MJ and EM should have more then enough to deal with SW.
 

grutter

Active member
Joined
27 Aug 2011
Messages
7,316
Reaction score
364
Location
Orpington
Not expecting wholesale changes, but I'm surprised that almost all posters are convinced that Toney will start.
Not only did he come off injured on Saturday, he already had the support on before he needed to come off. He was struggling a bit before his 2nd goal. Why risk him in two games in close proximity when we have a very good finisher on the bench? It may just make things worse.

I'm also in agreement that the combo of Marcondes and Jensen in the middle won't work v. Wednesday as it did against Coventry. Will be delighted to be wrong, but Monk would be stupid to allow the midfield the space that Coventry did in the first half.
 

jlove

Well-known member
Joined
17 Dec 2002
Messages
32,911
Reaction score
504
Location
Vaison-la-Romaine
Regarding the Twitterati, I'd love to see a team published of:

Daniels
Dalsgaard Jansson Sørensen Thompson
Marcondes Janelt Jensen
Mbeumo Forss Canós

and watch the meltdown.
 
OP
M

Mr Cynical

Well-known member
Joined
1 Jul 2000
Messages
12,043
Reaction score
896
Location
London
Not expecting wholesale changes, but I'm surprised that almost all posters are convinced that Toney will start.
Not only did he come off injured on Saturday, he already had the support on before he needed to come off. He was struggling a bit before his 2nd goal. Why risk him in two games in close proximity when we have a very good finisher on the bench? It may just make things worse.
I think you said the reason just there... 'finisher'.. Forss is an excellent prospect and will put away any chances he's given in the penalty area but the one area he really needs to work on is his hold up and link up play. With Sheff W likely to press we're far more likely to go long from defence/deep than normal and we'll need an outlet for that which is why I think we'll start with Toney tonight. I have a feeling that Marcondes might not start tonight though. Hammar seems to have been drafted into the squad for these games which suggests we're not entirely convinced of his fitness.
 

red_and_white

Active member
Joined
2 Mar 2004
Messages
1,467
Reaction score
28
Location
South-West London
I’m certainly not against starting Canos and Mbuemo again as they are great talents, but they need to turn it on a little bit more in my opinion. I’m sure it will come.

If they don’t then Ghoddos and Fosu should start against Stoke. Competition is healthy and we’re blessed with 4 very good wide players who fit our system.
 

grutter

Active member
Joined
27 Aug 2011
Messages
7,316
Reaction score
364
Location
Orpington
I think you said the reason just there... 'finisher'.. Forss is an excellent prospect and will put away any chances he's given in the penalty area but the one area he really needs to work on is his hold up and link up play. With Sheff W likely to press we're far more likely to go long from defence/deep than normal and we'll need an outlet for that which is why I think we'll start with Toney tonight. I have a feeling that Marcondes might not start tonight though. Hammar seems to have been drafted into the squad for these games which suggests we're not entirely convinced of his fitness.
No doubting Toney is the better all-round forward. But the Stoke game will be the same. Just questioning whether a fella that was strapped up and came off injured on Saturday can manage both games. And if he can't, which game would we need him most?
 

beesbees_bfc

Member
Joined
3 Jun 2008
Messages
707
Reaction score
142
Raya

Dalsgaard
Janson
Pinnock
Henry

Jenson (assuming Janet not fit enough for 90 mins)
Da Silva
Marcondes

Mbuemo
Fosu (assuming Ghoddos not fit enough for 60 mins)
Toney

Subs:
Daniels
Goode or Sorenson
Canos
Ghoddos
Forss
Thompson
Janet
 

IslandBee

Now Off-Island Bee
Joined
29 Sep 2009
Messages
6,504
Reaction score
125
Location
New Milton, Hants
Too early for Janelt I expect but certainly tempting after Saturday. Would continue to start Canos, so same team as started Saturday for me, but expect to see Janelt and Ghoddos at some point, even maybe after half-time.
 

TorbayBee

Formerly BanburyBee
Joined
18 Feb 2019
Messages
647
Reaction score
174
Too early for Janelt I expect but certainly tempting after Saturday. Would continue to start Canos, so same team as started Saturday for me, but expect to see Janelt and Ghoddos at some point, even maybe after half-time.
It feels as if outside of an injury TF never uses subs at half time
 
OP
M

Mr Cynical

Well-known member
Joined
1 Jul 2000
Messages
12,043
Reaction score
896
Location
London
No doubting Toney is the better all-round forward. But the Stoke game will be the same. Just questioning whether a fella that was strapped up and came off injured on Saturday can manage both games. And if he can't, which game would we need him most?
Fair point and then we have Norwich so not really any easy games to switch them around. I suspect we'll see him do 60 mins or so for both games this week (depending on how we're doing of course).
 

upnorthbee

Active member
Joined
3 Jan 2006
Messages
1,366
Reaction score
119
Location
Singapore
I dont understand the whole "change the team to deal with the physicality".

What we have to do is ensure we are on our game. We've torn teams like this apart, its only highlighted when we have an off day against them. But the same can be said about the ball playing teams that we lose against.

If we want to win promotion and compete with better teams then we need to make them worry about us and not talk about wholesale changes because we worry about them kicking us off the park.

Football fans are such a funny bunch especially the weird new lot on Twitter who think its the end of the world when one or two players have a below par game and calling out the manager etc on team selection before the games even begun.

The Coventry selection drew all sorts of bile and abuse.................... We went on to win 2-0. Trust our players, we are in transition and bedding in a few new players and trying to get the confidence back into the ones that gave so much at the end of the last campaign.

Yes we need to be aware of the physicality of certain sides that may require a tweak in selection and tactics, but changing 2-3 players out because they are the scapegoats of the moment doesnt sit well with me. A midfield three of JDS MJ and EM should have more then enough to deal with SW.
Love the positivity but it's wishful thinking in my opinion, we're not Man City. I believe we should tweak the team when we play certain opposition, to stop us from getting bullied. If Marcondes and Jensen don't turn up, we're effectively down to 9 men because they're not the greatest at grinding out results when the going gets tough. Don't get be wrong, on form they're both as good as anyone in the league, but against physical opposition, I would prefer Vitaly to come in to replace one of them (once he's match fit of course).

Weirdly though, I don't believe Sheff Wed are one of the teams that would bully us, and I think a few are giving them far too much credit on here. They've got Flint at the back who is a nightmare from corners but our CB's are quality. They are are similar team to the one that we beat 5-0 a couple of months back, and I wouldn't be worried to see MJ and EM start. Real physical teams like Millwall and Forest are a different matter though...
 
OP
M

Mr Cynical

Well-known member
Joined
1 Jul 2000
Messages
12,043
Reaction score
896
Location
London
I do wonder whether we will just throw Janelt into it tonight? Marcondes injury might make the decision easier. He wasn’t seen in the training pics yesterday so he must be touch and go. Janelt certainly looked capable on sat but would obviously be under a lot more pressure v Sheff.. got to give him a go sometime so why not? Just hope if we do and it doesn’t work out he doesn’t get written off...
 

Stanley

Well-known member
Joined
10 Jan 2001
Messages
13,669
Reaction score
129
Sky reporting Canos starts and Toney having a late fitness test. They may of course have got it wrong and/or TF playing a guessing game.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom