The Ashes 2021/22

Les Beeavinu

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How about - 5 day cricket, 70 overs for 3 days, 60 for the other two with two T20 in the evenings. So Surrey Lancashire for example has two days of 70 over cricket, days 3 and 4 are 60 overs with a T20 in each evening and a final day of 70 overs if needed. All played between June and August.
 

Balders Bee

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Test Cricket is dead in the UK. I wonder to mourn the occasion if the new light up Bails are flammable....
 

SpiderBee

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The big issue I have with the very short format cricket is those who attend don't actually give a f*** about the cricket, its barely watched, generally just an excuse for a piss up. Actually most entertainment in this country is generally an excuse for a piss up.

I pretty much agree. The major backers of sport in the UK are TV companies, bookmakers and breweries.
Thankfully, I only watch county and club cricket nowadays, a peaceful haven from all of the hullabaloo (mostly)!
I have been to a T20 once (on a free ticket from one of the Somerset players). I quite enjoyed it but noticed the difference in the attendees.
It was on a Sunday at Taunton v Surrey ahead of a 4 day county game on the Monday.
 

Hippobee

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Test Cricket is dead in the UK. I wonder to mourn the occasion if the new light up Bails are flammable....
That's the sad truth of it. All previous comments relating to how this has been coming for the past 10 years are spot on to, relating to lack of investment, throwing all the money at Mickey Mouse cricket and a general decreasing limited attention span in society (not just youngsters). Even the 'old' one day format of 50 overs is seen as grandad cricket now.

The thing is here is that the Aussies are not even an outstanding test side - their bowlers certainly aren't. I reckon you could have sent Ireland, Holland or Afghanistan out there to play an they wouldn't have batted any worse than that. We haven't had any strength in our test batting line up for years now and as someone else mentioned, the county game isn't going to prepare anyone for hard-nosed test cricket either.

No-one is going to do anything about this, because it isn't going to make any money for the ECB. Any with displays like this, no-one in the UK is going to want to watch test cricket anyway. The excitement experienced in years like 1981 and 2005 will never be recreated in test cricket again.
 

Humblebee

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The Aussies care more about beating England in the Ashes than we do. Let them have their moment of glory before they go back to the obscurity they deserve.
 

rebus

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They want as many kids as possible there for the parents money, thats why they have sh*t concerts in the break - they might as well have Mr Tumble as the kids would prefer that.
Allstars cricket is a waste of time, coaches babysit on saturday mornings instead of doing meaningful coaching with older players and once finished the kids dont continue year after year.
I’d probably pick Mr Tumble to open for us at the moment.
 

rebus

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Its merely to give the parents time to do something else. They just aren't interested.
It’s been going on for years though. I played mini rugby in the 1980s and to see some parents leave their kids to swan off for three hours, instead of cheering them on, made quite a mark on me.
 

-superbees2k3-

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The Aussies care more about beating England in the Ashes than we do. Let them have their moment of glory before they go back to the obscurity they deserve.
I agree with the first sentence. But they’re also world T20 champions….
 

Mark H

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So many things wrong with cricket in the UK, I could write a thesis. But some of the issues are here.

1. Cricket largely only played in private schools. Chance to shine failed to change that significantly.

2. A large Asian community that play in their own leagues ( not tapped into) that has a mistrust of the county and national setup.

3. ECB board and Executive has mainly members that are commercially focused with no cricketing background.

4. Giles is an awful DoC he was an average player and has average ideas.

5. County game encourage average performance.

6. Silverwood.

7. Players are too focused on short form game and aren’t prepared to put the effort in for building mental resilience. How made of these players spent a winter in shield cricket in Oz?

8. English football changed it’s ways to develop a better national team by engaging ideas from other sports. Read Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed. The ECB needs to do similar.

many more ….

Until the above stays unchanged we will continue to be crap.
 

sid

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The AUssies are very good winners, when they are
having a slump, they are very good with sandpaper.
 

Wise old Bee

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I'm not a regular attender at cricket but do love a day at Lords, especially the first day of a county game. The standard of cricket at this level is poor by comparison with how it was in the 80s. I always presumed it was the influence of limited overs cricket which has its place of course. I knew quite a few who played club and old-boys cricket when I was young but none of my son's contemporaries ever played the game, not even at school. My interest in Test cricket is confined to listening on the radio which has always been a pleasure even if the games themselves are poor.
 

badgerbee

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How does the Aussie set up differ to ours these days?

Less limited over stuff?
More "competitive"/higher quality 4 day competition? (If so, how?)
Different central contract system? (Do their CC players play more Sheffield Shield?)
 

Les Beeavinu

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How does the Aussie set up differ to ours these days?

Less limited over stuff?
More "competitive"/higher quality 4 day competition? (If so, how?)
Different central contract system? (Do their CC players play more Sheffield Shield?)
Conditions rarely differ throughout the season so they can play 4 day cricket in a convenient slot without affecting the way the game has to be played.

A more batsman friendly ball so bowlers have to earn their wickets.
 

badgerbee

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Conditions rarely differ throughout the season so they can play 4 day cricket in a convenient slot without affecting the way the game has to be played.

A more batsman friendly ball so bowlers have to earn their wickets.
But surely that's always been the case? Even when we were stuffing them in previous series.
Why the sudden/current apparent gulf in class?
Or is a lot of it down the the unique circumstances around this series?
I.e. COVID/lack of preparation.....
 

Hippobee

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But surely that's always been the case? Even when we were stuffing them in previous series.
Why the sudden/current apparent gulf in class?
I listened to a chap on SSN talking about this this morning who I thought made a good point.

He was saying that a number of more recently picked players had actually worsened since being with the 'elite'. This raised the question as to the quality of coaching in the test team and the mentality in the squad. Really, they should improve if they are playing with better players and being coached by international coaches. This might explain why the gap has widened if they players that are selected then become even worse. Perhaps the coaches we have in the set up are not up to much either.

If Sir Geoffrey were still commentating he would be having kittens about the lack of footwork and lack of technique/application shown by these batsmen.
 

Mark H

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How does the Aussie set up differ to ours these days?

Less limited over stuff?
More "competitive"/higher quality 4 day competition? (If so, how?)
Different central contract system? (Do their CC players play more Sheffield Shield?)
There is a passion for cricket over there that is amongst all. Backyard cricket is big thing and even has avid followers on YouTube. Club cricket is very intense.

Give you an example at the lower levels. My local club used to do a player swap with a club in Sydney. Our best player would regularly fail over there. Their best Grade3 (not grade1 or 2!) player would take apart the bowling over here. This happened year after year. club cricket also play 2 day games. So weather is a very big factor as well.
 

Leedsbee

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Haven't seen any of this series but long held the theory that with general improvement in athletic performance most fast bowlers now capable of bowling over 90 miles per hour and that's unplayable if the balls moving.Tennis acted to slow down the ball and probably time cricket did so.
 
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The Aussies care more about beating England in the Ashes than we do. Let them have their moment of glory before they go back to the obscurity they deserve.
But unfortunately dear Humblebee it is not just a "moment" of glory is it ? It is yet another thrashing - just like the 4-0 last time and the 5-0 the time before that ! I think we know who might be headed for obscurity and it isn't the Aussies !
 

Brentford Bob

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Its merely to give the parents time to do something else. They just aren't interested.

I was interested. I was desperate for my son to play cricket…. He showed real promise with a bat. I phoned around several Hampshire clubs and many seemed to operate an unofficial ‘pay to play’ system. In other words, if you pay big bucks for the indoor, winter coaching sessions, your child was guaranteed a place in the team in the Summer.
 

whyteleafebee76

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For balance to my comments though, a major sport where matches aimed at preparing for the highest level are watched by 100 old blokes who bring along their own sandwiches is not sustainable.

But 10 years ago that same structure helped us become the number 1 test side in the world by creating test quality players.

There has to be a balance between income generating white ball cricket and refocusing red ball county cricket to help produce the required standard of player.
 

badgerbee

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There is a passion for cricket over there that is amongst all. Backyard cricket is big thing and even has avid followers on YouTube. Club cricket is very intense.

Give you an example at the lower levels. My local club used to do a player swap with a club in Sydney. Our best player would regularly fail over there. Their best Grade3 (not grade1 or 2!) player would take apart the bowling over here. This happened year after year. club cricket also play 2 day games. So weather is a very big factor as well.
Yeah, but the same question again.
You refer to something your local club “used to do”, and it happened “year after year”. How long ago? And were we “competitive” then?

What’s changed to make us so poor this time round?
 

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Both B2B juniors play cricket locally here. Number one is a quality line and length bowler, decent bat, this year top batsmen a in his team and leading the line with his bowling.

Number two top scored and took most wickets last year in his comp across his age groups . Currently leading run scorer this year and ‘only third top wicket scorer - example - got 48 off 17 last time out,

Tried out both for reps. Neither made the grade. This is just our local cricket comp. I’ve been told to try again but not sure I’ll bother

They take it seriously here. They push and streamline and there is a huge junior competition happening. Every weekend. Example in the 13’s there are two 20
Over games, one 30 over games and rep
Games each weekend, in the 12’s there are 3 divisions of 20 Over on a Saturday and two on sundays - plus reps. How does that compare to ‘local’ cricket over there currently?
 

Balders Bee

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My son has played at a reasonable standard for a well regarded Surrey club since he was 13. He's now with the U18/19s. All he has played is 20 overs limited cricket exclusively, it's only the last season or so he's played some longer format game on a Sunday with me. He struggled at first with the longer format. Bowling is not too bad with T20 as youngsters shouldn't be bowling for long spells but batting for it's catastrophic the idea of a solid defence, building an innings is just an anathema, too busy trying to play reverse sweeps & ramp shots. You can see this mirrored in the Pro game but obviously the Aussies have a far better long ball setup than we do. The ECB have been all too successful in marketing the cash rich shorter forms.
 

B2B

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Both B2B juniors play cricket locally here. Number one is a quality line and length bowler, decent bat, this year top batsmen a in his team and leading the line with his bowling.

Number two top scored and took most wickets last year in his comp across his age groups . Currently leading run scorer this year and ‘only third top wicket scorer - example - got 48 off 17 last time out,

Tried out both for reps. Neither made the grade. This is just our local cricket comp. I’ve been told to try again but not sure I’ll bother

They take it seriously here. They push and streamline and there is a huge junior competition happening. Every weekend. Example in the 13’s there are two 20
Over games, one 30 over games and rep
Games each weekend, in the 12’s there are 3 divisions of 20 Over on a Saturday and two on sundays - plus reps. How does that compare to ‘local’ cricket over there currently?

rep games are 40 over games also.

so basically 20, 30, 40 over games every weekend- at 12’s onwards
 

IslandBee

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How does the Aussie set up differ to ours these days?

Less limited over stuff?
More "competitive"/higher quality 4 day competition? (If so, how?)
Different central contract system? (Do their CC players play more Sheffield Shield?)

I am no expert on this but it has got to be wrong that being and England contract player means you play much less county championship cricket!
 

Indian Bee

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Surprised but not surprised to see the non-resignation of Silverwood and Thorpe this morning. There has to be some accountability. For England to lose 9 tests in one year (think that is a record with Bangladesh) is appalling. The whole year from the outside has been a mess, starting from the rotation policy in India to the selection (putting all the eggs in one basket in the D/N Ahmedabad 3rd test after DROPPING Anderson for the 2nd test in India) to not even including England's best bowler (again Anderson) in the opening test of this ashes series as they planned he would be more effective in the D/N 2nd test. There are decisions that

Root has had a great year with the bat but is a poor captain and his handling of the spinners all year has been poor and his post match interviews is just the same, we need to do better and learn from it. The comms around Moeen leaving India was just pathetic. The consistent inclusion of Butler and Bairstow whom both have stealing a living playing test match cricket is a joke. But I don't blame them - there certainly is a clique within the England team, set up, media and the ECB.

I would have Stokes as captain (whom is a batsman of great innings but not a great test batsman as he is too inconsistent) and if he can cope with the mental strains of the role think he would do really well. Bring in some like Jason Gillespie as coach whom knows the county set up inside out and probably can identify players like Duncan Fletcher did with Trescothick and Vaughan whom has only ok FC averages.

The biggest issue England have is how does one fit county championship games in July and August - so players can play 4 days cricket and make pitches more flatter, so as Trott said last night, bring in spinners and enable players to play a longer innings.

There really was no need to introduce The Hundred, having 3 short formats in the English game will have a longer term effect on red ball cricket and all the English fans I met all over the country all say the same thing, test match cricket is the best form and need to be protected at all costs.
 

whyteleafebee76

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Conditions rarely differ throughout the season so they can play 4 day cricket in a convenient slot without affecting the way the game has to be played.

A more batsman friendly ball so bowlers have to earn their wickets.

Australia haven't won a test series in England in 20 years and haven't won a test series in India for 17 years. Their system is as flawed as the English system.
 

IslandBee

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Australia haven't won a test series in England in 20 years and haven't won a test series in India for 17 years. Their system is as flawed as the English system.

But they have always been competitive in England whereas we have very rarely been competitive over there. No system is perfect but our batting issues particularly are of longstanding and suggest fundamental flaws in ours.
 

Jam Jar

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Surprised but not surprised to see the non-resignation of Silverwood and Thorpe this morning. There has to be some accountability. For England to lose 9 tests in one year (think that is a record with Bangladesh) is appalling. The whole year from the outside has been a mess, starting from the rotation policy in India to the selection (putting all the eggs in one basket in the D/N Ahmedabad 3rd test after DROPPING Anderson for the 2nd test in India) to not even including England's best bowler (again Anderson) in the opening test of this ashes series as they planned he would be more effective in the D/N 2nd test. There are decisions that

Root has had a great year with the bat but is a poor captain and his handling of the spinners all year has been poor and his post match interviews is just the same, we need to do better and learn from it. The comms around Moeen leaving India was just pathetic. The consistent inclusion of Butler and Bairstow whom both have stealing a living playing test match cricket is a joke. But I don't blame them - there certainly is a clique within the England team, set up, media and the ECB.

I would have Stokes as captain (whom is a batsman of great innings but not a great test batsman as he is too inconsistent) and if he can cope with the mental strains of the role think he would do really well. Bring in some like Jason Gillespie as coach whom knows the county set up inside out and probably can identify players like Duncan Fletcher did with Trescothick and Vaughan whom has only ok FC averages.

The biggest issue England have is how does one fit county championship games in July and August - so players can play 4 days cricket and make pitches more flatter, so as Trott said last night, bring in spinners and enable players to play a longer innings.

There really was no need to introduce The Hundred, having 3 short formats in the English game will have a longer term effect on red ball cricket and all the English fans I met all over the country all say the same thing, test match cricket is the best form and need to be protected at all costs.

Problem with the England captaincy is the side is such a shambles who else can take the challenge. I wouldn't burden Stokes who needs to play his natural game and not get further bogged down with the responsibility. Probably not Buttler either who should perhaps move to specialise in white ball cricket. If the powers that be want to improve county cricket then I would say built a couple of indoor stadiums with retractable roofs/soft roof so the season can be played in April/September/October and not be hit by weather forcing the manufacturing of results which does not help the development of a test cricketer.
 

The Pipe

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There is so much wrong and the introduction of the 100 certainly hasn’t helped.

With our inclement weather County games are washed out or results contrived whereas virtually the rest of the Cricketing World can be confident that games will be completed. These weather conditions have an adverse effect on our batting because potential time at the crease is limited whereas it has a positive effect on our bowlers who learn how to maximise the conditions.

Australian batsmen are brought up on decent pitches where they can trust the bounce and, certainly in the past, playing extremely competitive Shield Cricket. However even they are showing signs of lack of technique and a desire to play more outrageous strokes. In fact I can’t think of any Test team that, apart from a few individuals, show the necessary mental toughness and technique to build an innings.

I recall Boycott discussing our failings during one of the many English collapses and he was firmly of the opinion that it was the demise of uncovered pitches that signalled the death knell of English batting. His argument was that with uncovered pitches only guys with a good technique would be successful.

As to the present shower, I don’t think Root is a tactically good captain, Silverwood seems popular with the players, which isn’t always a good thing and we have loads of coaches and ancillary bodies that seemingly bring nothing to the party. If the players need coaching when they get to the Test Arena then quite frankly they are not good enough.

No idea who could take over from Root, think the call for Gillespie is a good one and jettison the coaches who seemingly have done little to improve things over the past few years. Let the Manager be more involved in the day to day coaching and get a “ blazer” to be the mouthpiece
 

whyteleafebee76

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But they have always been competitive in England whereas we have very rarely been competitive over there. No system is perfect but our batting issues particularly are of longstanding and suggest fundamental flaws in ours.

Yes, how many of the Aussies over the years have played county cricket, plenty, even. How many of ours have gone to Australia and played shield cricket, very few.

We have rarely invested time in learning to play in Australian conditions and it always shows.

In 2010 we seemed to get it right and played Western Australia, South Australia and their A Team in 2 three day games and a four day game. We also played Victoria later in the tour. We scored 4 centuries in those warm up games and Collingwood got a 90 odd. I am sure there are tours where we have played plenty of warm up games and been hammered but to me it stands to reason that you need to get used to different conditions to give yourself a chance of succeeding.

10/12 days of first class cricket should be the minimum on any future tours prior to a major series. If players can't commit to that then they don't tour.
 

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I agree with the first sentence. But they’re also world T20 champions….
Cricket is a big deal in Australia. Its the first story in the news. Its covered in every news bulletin. The boxing day test is one of the highlights of their year.

Cricket is barely covered here on free channels since 2005.
 

Holysmit

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I was interested. I was desperate for my son to play cricket…. He showed real promise with a bat. I phoned around several Hampshire clubs and many seemed to operate an unofficial ‘pay to play’ system. In other words, if you pay big bucks for the indoor, winter coaching sessions, your child was guaranteed a place in the team in the Summer.
Cant talk about Hampshire.

But i know clubs like Ealing and Sheppards Bush operate like that.

There are lots of clubs like Actonians, Brentham and Chiswick where that isn't the case. Hopefully its the same in Hampshire.
 
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Some really interesting reading on this thread folks.

Unfortunately I can’t see anything changing. This has to be the moment where there is radical overhaul as there was for the ODI team after the 2015 World Cup. If there isn’t, we all know test cricket is dead and buried.
 

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Some really interesting reading on this thread folks.

Unfortunately I can’t see anything changing. This has to be the moment where there is radical overhaul as there was for the ODI team after the 2015 World Cup. If there isn’t, we all know test cricket is dead and buried.
Hard to see any way forward for the English Test side.Anderson,Broad,Root and Stokes will be gone over the next few years and who will replace them?Archer if he regains fitness will probably only play white ball cricket,it’s highly unlikely we will suddenly find a world class spinner,and there are no batsmen of the required quality in or around the current squad.
Australia,India and New Zealand will be the dominant Test sides,and will be division 2 alongside South Africa,West Indies and Sri Lanka.
The ECB have prioritised white ball cricket,so accept the consequence.All credit to the likes of New Zealand who somehow manage to perform well at both formats,with far smaller resources.
Maybe time to find a couple more Pietersens or Lambs to help us out.
Today was a very sad sight for traditional English cricket fans.
 

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With our inclement weather County games are washed out or results contrived whereas virtually the rest of the Cricketing World can be confident that games will be completed. These weather conditions have an adverse effect on our batting because potential time at the crease is limited whereas it has a positive effect on our bowlers who learn how to maximise the conditions.
This point has been made worse by the fact that 90% of championship matches are played in April, May or September. White ball cricket has been prioritised by the ECB and given the ‘prime’ summer months of June, July and August.
 

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But unfortunately dear Humblebee it is not just a "moment" of glory is it ? It is yet another thrashing - just like the 4-0 last time and the 5-0 the time before that ! I think we know who might be headed for obscurity and it isn't the Aussies !
I wasn't just talking about the cricket...
 

Indian Bee

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Some really interesting points IB and particularly agree with this one.

Trouble is that in most walks of life these days, I don't see any accountability for failure or bad decisions. I remember back in the day the honourable thing to do with a cock-up or failure is to resign.
 

Hippobee

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Trouble is that in most walks of life these days, I don't see any accountability for failure or bad decisions. I remember back in the day the honourable thing to do with a cock-up or failure is to resign.
At least one of them will go. This isn't going to happen in the middle of a series though, irrespective that the Ashes are lost.
 

Les Beeavinu

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Trouble is that in most walks of life these days, I don't see any accountability for failure or bad decisions. I remember back in the day the honourable thing to do with a cock-up or failure is to resign.
Can't recall that happening mid series tbh.
 

Indian Bee

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Hard to see any way forward for the English Test side.Anderson,Broad,Root and Stokes will be gone over the next few years and who will replace them?Archer if he regains fitness will probably only play white ball cricket,it’s highly unlikely we will suddenly find a world class spinner,and there are no batsmen of the required quality in or around the current squad.
Australia,India and New Zealand will be the dominant Test sides,and will be division 2 alongside South Africa,West Indies and Sri Lanka.
The ECB have prioritised white ball cricket,so accept the consequence.All credit to the likes of New Zealand who somehow manage to perform well at both formats,with far smaller resources.
Maybe time to find a couple more Pietersens or Lambs to help us out.
Today was a very sad sight for traditional English cricket fans.

Agree with most of this. Having white ball cricket is the not problem for red ball cricket as you rightly noted Australia, India and NZ are competitive in all three formats. There is a home for both. What I can't fathom is ECB introducing another short format. There was nothing wrong with ODI, T20 and County Championship - all that needed fixing was the schedule and tweaking the T20. One just needs to look at the BBC comments page - over 5000 comments, one can see the level of feeling/ anger. This has hit home.

The majority expected Australia to win this series, what people can't cope with is the lack of fight or at least being competitive. One sided test match series are boring.

What can quickly change is bloody well work at one's technique. Kohli was found out in the 2014 tour with a major technical flaw and he went away and worked at his game. Rahul and Rohit were more suited to ODIs and T20s but they worked on their game with good coaches around him to be able to play tests matches overseas. That is why in addition to Silverwood, Thorpe should resign or at least be sacked, the same errors are creeping in and if anything the batting has got worse over the year.

Test match cricket needs a competitive England side.
 
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