The continuing demise of Portsmouth thread

wanderer paul

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I don't agree - I think that the CVA will ensure that they are not burdened with debt and the club will be properly financed by the supporters trust. It will become another club owned and financed by its supporters, which to my mind is how all sporting clubs should be structured.

I don't understand the bile towards the supporters - I think all of the unhappiness about the non payment of creditors etc should be aimed at the previous owners of the club, who incidentally were deemed fit and proper by the FA. It does occur to me that if football supporters are so upset by creditors not being paid they should campaign to the FA to remove the football creditor rule as this is the main reason ordinary creditors don't get paid.

I don't much like Portsmouth FC, but I don't like to see clubs with a history go out of business because of the practices of foreign owners which were fully condoned by the football authorities.

The club will have a debt, to the ex players they released, who I believe are guaranteed the last parachute payments to pay off their contracts.
To renegade in two CVA's to its creditors is totally wrong. The supporters backed the club. If they felt strongly enough about the takeovers they should've lobbied the FA and FL showing proof as to why the potential new owners are flawed and shouldn't be allowed to own PFC. The supporters group have raised £2.5 mill?? That's not enough to buy and then run a club. If the supporters do get to own and buy the club, along with Fratton Park, the budget plans have to show to the FL that they can pay off creditors, have an affordable playing budget & accept 10 point penalty.

In this country, supporter owned clubs won't work under the current rules, BFC would be struggling if MB wasn't around, Wycombe are struggling, Exeter are just coping and AFC Wimbledon aren't faring better either, there aren't any other supporter owned clubs in the FL, the rest are all nonleague.
 

markyst

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Pompey's problem is their recent Premier League history - will their fans turn up in significant numbers in what's very likely to be a 4th Division campaign next season?

Accrington at home on a Tuesday night in winter is not as appealing as the idea of running your own club, which has not worked at any club above mid-table in League 1.
 

wanderer paul

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Case adjourned until January 15th. :rolleyes:
 

hobbsy

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Case adjourned until January 15th. :rolleyes:

Hang on, that means they will have exceeded the FL's maximum time for being in Administration. What happens now?
 

wanderer paul

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Hang on, that means they will have exceeded the FL's maximum time for being in Administration. What happens now?

The FL will take pity and give Portsmouth FC special dispensation to continue playing, without agreeing a CVA, and guarantee that they won't be relegated this season as they're a big club, the points won't be deducted as it will infringe their supporters human rights.... :sorted:
 

BFC1997

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Need to be removed from the football league or something radical, they surely can't just get away with this?!
 

GP200

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..............not good at the moment,beaten at home by Crawley and bottom four...........
 

Invipai

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..............not good at the moment,beaten at home by Crawley and bottom four...........

Means they might actually accept their points deduction this season like was supposed to happen originally.... though they really shouldn't choose...
 

CBGB

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Gets worse too. Most of the squad are on short-term contracts that mean they can go next month. Swindon are sniffing around Izale McCloud and a few others are in the press talking about wanting 'security' ie 'I'm half-decent so come and get me'. Many fans wishing the club could do a Rangers, get knocked down a few divisions then start again. The ownership of the club has been such an arseholes rodeo for so long it would be a relief
 

Banana

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Pompey's problem is their recent Premier League history - will their fans turn up in significant numbers in what's very likely to be a 4th Division campaign next season?

Accrington at home on a Tuesday night in winter is not as appealing as the idea of running your own club, which has not worked at any club above mid-table in League 1.

Oi!!!We reached the playoffs!!!
 

CBGB

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Pompey's problem is their recent Premier League history - will their fans turn up in significant numbers in what's very likely to be a 4th Division campaign next season?

Accrington at home on a Tuesday night in winter is not as appealing as the idea of running your own club, which has not worked at any club above mid-table in League 1.

If AFC Wimbledon is any sort of template then they have the numbers/pig-headedness/bells/drums etc to make a sustained comeback
 

Holysmit

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When you look at the players they have signed, the wage budget they have for league one and the fact that they haven't had points deducted, serious questions need to be asked internally about how they are in such a lowly posistion.

That said given, that they should have never been allowed to start the season, it could just be karma.
 

Invipai

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Let them finish the season so we don't lose the 3 points we got against them!!

....after that let them get what's coming to them. I think away trips to Burton are fine. At least it will give League Two fans a nice day out.
 

Uttoxeter Bee

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Let them finish the season so we don't lose the 3 points we got against them!!

....after that let them get what's coming to them. I think away trips to Burton are fine. At least it will give League Two fans a nice day out.

Burton's not a bad place - I work there
 

horshambees

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The Football League will want Pompey to complete the season at least.A shoe in for relegation now and at the end of the season they can regroup and consider the options.

The inevitable will happen though as they struggle to survive and an AFC Portsmouth will apply to the Isthmian league and start life over again somewhere maybe Havant.

Portsmouth and Havant and Waterlooville FC????
Cannot see it,but the clubs going straight in the Solent.
 

Holysmit

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Bit of a player cull at Portsmouth. http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/harley-heads-list-as-quartet-leave-1-4654312

Looking like the "kids" will be playing against Notts County. They've also lost the use of their training ground to cut down on costs. Notts County away win is probably a bit of a cert if you fancy a flutter!

This is becoming even more farcical. I know that they lost to Crawley and Yeovil, but imagine how pissed off they would have been if Pompey won or even drew those games, and then decided not to have a proper team for the rest of the season and thus the remaining 21 teams play their youth team!.
 

hanworthbee

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Some of those players must have been on pretty good money and no matter what their situation seems to be they just don't seem to learn.The sooner the points are deducted and their relagation is confirmed the better
 

markyst

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Some of those players must have been on pretty good money and no matter what their situation seems to be they just don't seem to learn.The sooner the points are deducted and their relagation is confirmed the better


The 4 they've let go were on total of £14k a week apparently - average of £3,500 a week.
 

Brentford 4 Life

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disgusting? lol

How many people have lost their job/business or money they have earned because of this club? Have they paid the St John's Ambulance the money they owe them yet? If not it is disgusting that they should continue to pay very good money to footballers.
 

bees66

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How many people have lost their job/business or money they have earned because of this club? Have they paid the St John's Ambulance the money they owe them yet? If not it is disgusting that they should continue to pay very good money to footballers.

'arry ****ed them up, they won the FA Cup using funds they didn't have.. Tal Ben Haim wages were £36k a week

the end of the 2011/12 season saw Portsmouth get relegated from the Championship, after which Ben Haim's agent, Pini Zahavi, stated that he would not play in League One despite having one year remaining on his deal, worth around £2million.[28] However, Zahavi later stated that he was in the dark over Ben Haim's future. Ben Haim's contract was criticized by administrator Trevor Birch because he was offered £36,000-a-week over four years, shortly before the club first went into liquidation. However, due to administration the maximum the club paid any player at that time was just £5,000-a-week

administrators are to blame for the wages now..:wave:
 
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Hungerford Bee

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"just £5,000-a-week" Madness - £250,000 year to play in the 3rd tier of English football when your club is in admininstration.
 

RodBee

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From the official Portsmouth web site:

How To Go Bankrupt
Bankruptcy.gfs-uk.co.uk
Check If You Qualify To Go Bankrupt With Our Online Bankruptcy Test
Apply For Bankruptcy - Bankruptcy Costs - Alternatives To Bankruptcy

Well, they have obviously learned from the experts!
 

Holysmit

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'arry ****ed them up, they won the FA Cup using funds they didn't have.. Tal Ben Haim wages were £36k a week



administrators are to blame for the wages now..:wave:

I don't think you've grasped the point.

What is disgusting is that they are allowed to pay these wages, when they haven't paid off numerous other creditors (several of whom have gone under). It is irrelvant who agreed to these wages. Although I would like to know how any adminstrator could justify these wages.
 

Alan D

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The way things are going I really can't see them completing the season. Could be another three points we have lost, but I guess it's the same for all teams.
 

wanderer paul

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They'll complete the season. Even if they have to play non contract players on low wages. They'll probably finish bottom once the 10 points are taken off. The court case is next week re the ground.

It's whether they'll last the summer and into 2013/14. Which I cannot see. A new club in nonleague will be formed.

This may give Luton an easy route back if they finish 2nd in the conference..... :(
 

steve.bees89

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When does the points deduction come into effect?

Don't know too much about this sort of thing but is it once they come out of administration?

If so when would that be, is there a limit as to how long you can be in administration?

Sorry if its all been said before
 

hobbsy

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When does the points deduction come into effect?

Don't know too much about this sort of thing but is it once they come out of administration?

If so when would that be, is there a limit as to how long you can be in administration?

Sorry if its all been said before

Yes, you can only be in Administration for a year, which expired at Christmas. The Football League are making if up as they go along, so it's anyone's guess.
 

markyst

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They'll complete the season. Even if they have to play non contract players on low wages. They'll probably finish bottom once the 10 points are taken off. The court case is next week re the ground.

It's whether they'll last the summer and into 2013/14. Which I cannot see. A new club in nonleague will be formed.

This may give Luton an easy route back if they finish 2nd in the conference..... :(

If Pompey go bust the 2nd bottom team in L2 would be reprieved. It would be 2 up from the BSP as normal.
 

havantbee

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Yes, you can only be in Administration for a year, which expired at Christmas. The Football League are making if up as they go along, so it's anyone's guess.

Although Administration does automatically end after one year it can be extended by the Court or with the consent of creditors.
 

markyst

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Although Administration does automatically end after one year it can be extended by the Court or with the consent of creditors.

However, a few years back Luton, Rotherham and Bournemouth were not allowed to start the season unless they came out of administration beforehand. The FL do change the rules constantly, probably cos they don't actually have any rules.
 

hobbsy

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Although Administration does automatically end after one year it can be extended by the Court or with the consent of creditors.

I was referring to the so called FL rules rather than legalities.
 

banburybee

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Is this the big casualty that has often been spoken about as wages spiral? They are an established club with a very good supporter base but are actuallt going to fold. I find this scary as there must be at least half a dozen clubs near to this point Birmingham???
 

nick logan

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Is this the big casualty that has often been spoken about as wages spiral? They are an established club with a very good supporter base but are actuallt going to fold. I find this scary as there must be at least half a dozen clubs near to this point Birmingham???

No, they will be taken over by the trust soon, then although in League 2 next year they will at least be able to operate reasonably normally.
 

Holysmit

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Is this the big casualty that has often been spoken about as wages spiral? They are an established club with a very good supporter base but are actuallt going to fold. I find this scary as there must be at least half a dozen clubs near to this point Birmingham???

Personally I think in the long run, if Pompey don't go bust it will be worse for Football, as nobody takes it seriously anymore when people say so and so is on the brink.
 

Niyx

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Although Administration does automatically end after one year it can be extended by the Court or with the consent of creditors.

Portpin and HMRC sit on the creditors committee. The 12 month administration period is up on the 17th of February.

Another parachute payment is due in February which is ring fenced to pay football creditors. Not sure about this, but the PST need to renegotiate with football creditors as the initial compromise agreements are too expensive for them. From £8m to £6m from memory.

Portsmouth go back to court on the 15th of January. But this is just to set a new date for a two day hearing to force Portpin to accept a £2.75m offer for his charge on Fratton Park. There is also confussion over a £2m "floating charge" that seems to have emerged.

There is no precedent as far as I can see for a club starting two seasons in administration. The longest running was Crystal Palace from March 1999 to July 2000.

Some members from the Portsmouth Supporters Trust agreed to cover £1m worth of losses up to December to avoid liquidation. If the club goes pop, they lose the lot and won't be able to recover that.

Some fans have set up a splinter group and have raised £500,000 towards a phoenix club http://www.facebook.com/groups/407893649268563/

The administrator is making cuts which included reducing the wage bill and moving from their Eastleigh training ground. Portsmouth University have told the club they will not be able to use Furze Lane http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/university-deliver-pompey-training-ground-blow-1-4654496 . So Portsmouth FC are still looking for somewhere to train.

Wages offered were £4,200 per week downwards. Not £6-£7k rumoured.

The supporter £1000 pledge conversion rate is allegedly not going as quickly as the PST would like. £2m pledged by fans, just over £1m collected so far.

This is all from a very depressed Portsmouth supporting work colleague.
 
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Stanley

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My understanding is the Court case is pretty critical to their future, they need to win it to get out of admin as the Trust will have a viable business plan, lose it and they may not be able to leave admin unless Portpin takes over I guess. This is maybe why the FL are hanging onto the points as if they go over the year it may be increased
 

Niyx

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My understanding is the Court case is pretty critical to their future, they need to win it to get out of admin as the Trust will have a viable business plan, lose it and they may not be able to leave admin unless Portpin takes over I guess. This is maybe why the FL are hanging onto the points as if they go over the year it may be increased

It is implied somewhere that PKF might believe Portpin would not pass the football leagues fit and proper person test. So that's why the PST became the preferred bidders. It is either trust or bust. And you're right, the court case is pretty critical to their future. With 2 x parachute payments sat in the bank, you have to wonder whether liquidation is more beneficial over a CVA that offers 2p in the £ to most creditors.
 
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