The Knee...Here We Go, and Welcome to the Premier League.

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Holysmit

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Reprint the statement we made at the time and add a sentance that farage is a racist **** who isnt welcome at Brentford as well.

They might choose to leave the last bit out.
 

rebus

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Once a year? That will achieve absolutely nothing.

The very fact that there’s still so much focus on the taking of the knee nearly a year on and so many racists are still riled by it proves the need for it.
I agree - once a year is a waste of time. The kick it out initiative is a tick box exercise.

Gareth Southgate’s message was quite clear on why the England team take the knee. If you boo the reasons for that then you’re the problem. I suspect we will be back to doing it in August.
 

bee good

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Just worry that brentfords positive inclusive narrative will get hijacked by this. He's almost a famous supporter now! It's a bit like when a kid gets a nickname at school he hates. For sure it'll get remembered.
 

AB

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Farage is probably the greatest politician of the last Twenty years.

And definitely the biggest t w @t.
It’s a sign of how far he has fallen in relevance and how high we’ve risen that he’s used the club to get himself back in the headlines.

I also blame whoever paid him £65 for the Cameo video of Bees up Fulham down for bringing us to his attention first.
 

wanderer paul

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Look out, because we will probably find this arsehole outside the ground filming at some point today.

With a few Brentford supporters behind him with their Union Jacks, St George’s and other paraphernalia?!!

Could be interesting!
 

larrysigny

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Once a year? That will achieve absolutely nothing.The very fact that there’s still so much focus on the taking of the knee nearly a year on and so many racists are still riled by it proves the need for it.
Without taking sides, you could also say it proves that it has no effect.
And looking at many players' faces while kneeling shows they don't really care too much anyway - they just want to get on with the game.
 

Guildford Bee

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Without taking sides, you could also say it proves that it has no effect.
And looking at many players' faces while kneeling shows they don't really care too much anyway - they just want to get on with the game.

Disagree on both points
 

Matty D

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Would be fascinating to poll the England players on their views on historical materialism and the labour theory of value nonetheless

Off-topic but I'll never forget the programme interview with John Mousinho (who IIRC was doing a history degree in the US when he got offered a pro deal) where his response to "What would your Mastermind subject be?" was Post-Revolutionary Russia. Maybe no surprise he ended up as PFA chair!
 

LingfieldBee

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I hope the club makes a statement clarifying the. position asap. This old news (for us) is being quite widely, and probably wilfully, misinterpreted on Twitter and it is not a good look.
100% agree it was filtering out of Twitter last night. And no one literally no one realises why we actually decided to stop. I for one fully support it as taking the knee has had its time and no longer has a impact I would rather as the club say take proper others means of action. We are one of the most diverse clubs and that's the action we are taking.
 

horshambees

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Think it would be nice if we displayed a nice photo of Nigel on the jumbo-tron during the warm-up to thank him for getting us on the front page of the Telegraph …….. and then we all give him the finger in unison (players, fans, ref, TF etc) just as Man U etc take the knee
🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕
Any acts towards Nidge the weasel suits me.
I was lucky enough to be within a few feet of him about 5 years ago and told him "Jesus loves you Nigel , but I think you are a c**t"
One of his minders wasn't happy, but I was grinning from ear to ear.

If anyone is promoting division within this country then Nidge the weasel is the man.
About as racist as they come.
 

beetee

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I can't get my head round why they don't just remove the association to Black Lives Matter and find another anti-racist slogan to get behind. Anyone booing after that would be showing their true colours.
This is the most sensible post ive seen on this thread.
Southgate should be taking the higher moral ground and looking to unite the fans not creating division.
If the players used a different gesture im sure the majority on both sides would get behind it...seems the obvious option to me 🤷‍♂️
 

Invipai

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I agree with others that we need to reemphasise our position, we don't want to be a second team for anyone who is a racist because they think we're on their side. Taking the knee has to be a decision though, it can't be something you do because you feel you have to, or are worried how it would look if you didn't. Our position is well reasoned, but as has been demonstrated it can be used by others to push their own agenda while ignoring the facts of why we stopped.

(That said, part of me doesn't want the club to make a statement just because Farage made an issue of it. The amount of times political decisions have been made because he moaned about something is already too high!)
 

To Bee Someone

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Farage achieved his ultimate purpose 5 years ago with the referendum but very quickly realised that he had also signed his resignation letter alongside. He is still trying to stay relevant and he is even more cringe worthy than he was pre2015.
 

jlove

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I think Gary Lineker summed it up nicely:

If you boo England players for taking the knee, you’re part of the reason why players are taking the knee.

The great xenophobic bandwagon-jumper who has done more than anyone in the last century to destroy our country should be dragged to Tyburn.
 

rebus

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This is the most sensible post ive seen on this thread.
Southgate should be taking the higher moral ground and looking to unite the fans not creating division.
If the players used a different gesture im sure the majority on both sides would get behind it...seems the obvious option to me 🤷‍♂️

He took the moral high ground. Creating division is a byproduct of stating exactly why the England players take the knee.

Racists will boo anything that upsets them.
 

Wise old Bee

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If the players used a different gesture im sure the majority on both sides would get behind it...seems the obvious option to me
If there were to be some gesture that the whole crowd could join in with that was anti-racist then I"m sure people would be happy with that. BLM is too divisive for me, no mention of Asian or other ethnic minorities for a start.
 

Invipai

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If the gesture changed to something else, a few weeks later that would get booed as well. Everyone is aware that the knee is done simply to show support against racism, yet people will continue to make excuses that it's for something else as a reason to boo it.

Southgate isn't the one creating division, those who are opposing it in the most public way they can, are.
 

Les Beeavinu

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He took the moral high ground. Creating division is a byproduct of stating exactly why the England players take the knee.

Racists will boo anything that upsets them.

It would be helpful though if they were identified as racist instead of anti-Marxist which is the line being taken presently.
 

jlove

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It would be helpful though if they were identified as racist instead of anti-Marxist which is the line being taken presently.
This "Marxist" narrative was promoted widely in the US and it's clear that it was translated over here by certain groups and certain media outlets, both associated to (and some funded by) US white supremacists. If you provide those who are fundamentally racist with an excuse, they're going to use it. The question is: how do you provide a gesture that is 'clean'?
 

BFC1997

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I find some of the posts on here quite pathetic. Always a “no-politics” stance in one direction but not the other.

The truth is, during the COVID lockdowns when there haven’t been fans in stadiums, football clubs and broadcasters have been able to get away with taking quite bold stances on BLM etc. without facing any real fan scrutiny. Maybe some of you fooled yourselves into thinking that support for these stances was universal.

Well, now fans are back, it’s safe to say that isn’t true. Most people in this country are not racist, and want nothing to do with racist ideas. At the same time (and this is what seems to be missed) people have seriously little appetite to continue, week after week, month after month, year after year, to perform gestures to a specific political movement, or to take on chronic guilt or remorse (across the space of more than a year) for an act of violence carried out thousands of miles away by someone who has since been convicted of murder in Minnesota.

Even dismissing the above, and if you agreed with the original stance of taking the knee you must surely now recognise that it is, at best, an empty gesture. It changes nothing. Actions always speak louder than words or gestures.

You might also realise that it’s become actively counter-productive to the cause because it’s now causing more division than it’s healing.
 

Houghton Bee

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Well, now fans are back, it’s safe to say that isn’t true. Most people in this country are not racist, and want nothing to do with racist ideas. At the same time (and this is what seems to be missed) people have seriously little appetite to continue, week after week, month after month, year after year, to perform gestures to a specific political movement

You're not being asked to take part. All you have to do is give 5 seconds to allow others to do it, if they so wish, and for the most part it's to say black lives also matter, not to support the Black Lives Matter group/movement.
 

thanetbee

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away from the rights and wrongs of the issue, as others have noted this really highlights how news nousey are comms team will need to be, will they take the view to ignore the issue ...maybe they are on hols. Or to confront and correct But by doing so further amplify? Would personally love to see a correction as we seem to be attracting a new fan base today (via Twitter) of people with views and attitudes I abhor,
 

rebus

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It would be helpful though if they were identified as racist instead of anti-Marxist which is the line being taken presently.
“I’m anti-marxist” is the over line taken by the racists. These are the same guys that don’t want politics in football but sing one “World Cup and two world wars”.
 

johndub

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If there were to be some gesture that the whole crowd could join in with that was anti-racist then I"m sure people would be happy with that. BLM is too divisive for me, no mention of Asian or other ethnic minorities for a start.

As I understand it, there is no single trademarked organisation known as ‘Black Lives Matter’. Instead, it is a broad movement of various peoples and organisations dedicated generally to the removal of racism in society and who have specifically focused on police violence against black people. When you say there is no mention of Asian or other ethnic minorities, you appear to be under the misapprehension that there is one single organisation with a constitution or a mission statement. That isn’t the case. If I am wrong, no doubt someone will correct me but I think we should be clear before criticising it and thus appearing to give encouragement to racists to attack what is essentially an anti-racist coalition.
 

beetee

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He took the moral high ground. Creating division is a byproduct of stating exactly why the England players take the knee.

Racists will boo anything that upsets them.
Wrong imo... If they chose a different gesture i would think there would be no booing at all....in fact i would imagine people would cheer.
 

A Real Mysteron

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As I understand it, there is no single trademarked organisation known as ‘Black Lives Matter’. Instead, it is a broad movement of various peoples and organisations dedicated generally to the removal of racism in society and who have specifically focused on police violence against black people. When you say there is no mention of Asian or other ethnic minorities, you appear to be under the misapprehension that there is one single organisation with a constitution or a mission statement. That isn’t the case. If I am wrong, no doubt someone will correct me but I think we should be clear before criticising it and thus appearing to give encouragement to racists to attack what is essentially an anti-racist coalition.

If have a bit more of a dig into if if I were you.
 

beetee

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Taking the knee should be a personal choice and respected
If it offends some people why not do something else that doesn't? that would then do more to further the cause.
 

BFC1997

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You're not being asked to take part. All you have to do is give 5 seconds to allow others to do it, if they so wish, and for the most part it's to say black lives also matter, not to support the Black Lives Matter group/movement.

Understand your point to a degree and don’t think it’s badly intentioned, but I’m sorry, I just don’t agree.

Fans aren’t booing because they are racist or don’t want others to be able to have a stance on important issues.

They’re booing because ‘taking a knee’ has become a ritual at football games without any of them being asked and without any reasonable justification. Sky were very keen to run with the line that “football is the fans game” when they were threatened by the super league but when it comes to cramming down a certain message for PR reasons suddenly they have little tolerance for the views of fans. Now fans are back at stadiums I think most (or, at least, a lot) just want to move on and recapture the game for themselves rather than continue to cede it to broadcasters and socio-political agenda (that in the case of what happened in Minnesota is very very distant for most people here).
 

Oceanbee

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He chatted at length about his views and experience, Naga let him express his views.

Naga Munchetty - 08/06/2021 - BBC Sounds

Topics start about 1:06 with Southgate. Billygets cut off and is back about 1:37 ish.

Not sure whether Billy the Bee is on here or not, so hopefully if he sees this, or hears this comment, he’ll understand the point I’m making.

I listened to his Radio5 Live interview yesterday, and agree with the points he was making, and congratulate him on taking his stand against the obviously obnoxious supporter seated behind him at Wembley.

His support of Brentford and his media coverage in this respect is obviously generally positive.

However, between the current ‘now’ issue of the racist debate and what is happening in football, there was a point at which I didn’t think mentioning Brentford helped the club in the light of what Brentford FC is like in the modern day.

Billy referred to his life in the past, when he experienced a lot of racist abuse, and I can see how that experience coming at him would leave a lasting impression.

It is when he said words to the effect or similar -"Even my own fans abused me and gave me a kicking". He said this on 2 or 3 occasions and it obviously refers to Brentford.
Now he has every right to talk about his personal experience of supporting us.

However, as we all know, the club, staff and players have made tremendous efforts to be an all-inclusive club, one that kicks out any form of racism, and works so hard to be a family club of true equality that appeals to everyone, regardless of race, sex, religion and totally rejecting discrimination of any sort.

I was just very surprised that Billy did not go on from talking about his past experiences to talking about modern day Brentford.

To grab this golden opportunity of talking about what this progressive, forward thinking club is doing right now.

The past is the past, we all don’t live there any more. What matters is today, and tomorrow, and accepting and dealing with the challenges of stopping discrimination to anyone for whatever reason.

So, Billy, it was a great interview, but just wish you had presented a real view of modern day Brentford FC, as a positive example of what is happening, rather just leaving the impression to those many listeners, who don’t know us, that we are somehow still tainted.

As has been said, the interview was interrupted by a lost phone connection.
However, I think I heard it all.

If you listen, judge for yourself.
 

GABS

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I find some of the posts on here quite pathetic.

You can express your views without calling those with other views, your fellow Bees, pathetic.

Also this thread is mainly about objecting to a knob like Farage connecting himself to our club. Something surely most Bees fans would object to??
 

teesbee

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I must have been living under a log (or not been on Twitter - same thing), as the booing took me by surprise. They're booing because they disapprove of Marxism? Yeah, right. The fact that Farage has jumped on the bandwagon tells you all you need to know.

On that principle, how about on Remembrance Sunday we start booing the veterans parades because we disapprove of the military-industrial complex?
 

nick logan

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I must have been living under a log (or not been on Twitter - same thing), as the booing took me by surprise. They're booing because they disapprove of Marxism? Yeah, right. The fact that Farage has jumped on the bandwagon tells you all you need to know.

On that principle, how about on Remembrance Sunday we start booing the veterans parades because we disapprove of the military-industrial complex?
well as Oxford students are removing pictures of the Queen , its probably only a matter of time :banghead:
 

Col T

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“I’m anti-marxist” is the over line taken by the racists. These are the same guys that don’t want politics in football but sing one “World Cup and two world wars”.

Or go loopy over James McLean not wearing a poppy...
 

BFC1997

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this thread is mainly about objecting to a knob like Farage connecting himself to our club. Something surely most Bees fans would object to??

Quite an assumption.
 

westendbee

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Not sure whether Billy the Bee is on here or not, so hopefully if he sees this, or hears this comment, he’ll understand the point I’m making.

I listened to his Radio5 Live interview yesterday, and agree with the points he was making, and congratulate him on taking his stand against the obviously obnoxious supporter seated behind him at Wembley.

His support of Brentford and his media coverage in this respect is obviously generally positive.

However, between the current ‘now’ issue of the racist debate and what is happening in football, there was a point at which I didn’t think mentioning Brentford helped the club in the light of what Brentford FC is like in the modern day.

Billy referred to his life in the past, when he experienced a lot of racist abuse, and I can see how that experience coming at him would leave a lasting impression.

It is when he said words to the effect or similar -"Even my own fans abused me and gave me a kicking". He said this on 2 or 3 occasions and it obviously refers to Brentford.
Now he has every right to talk about his personal experience of supporting us.

However, as we all know, the club, staff and players have made tremendous efforts to be an all-inclusive club, one that kicks out any form of racism, and works so hard to be a family club of true equality that appeals to everyone, regardless of race, sex, religion and totally rejecting discrimination of any sort.

I was just very surprised that Billy did not go on from talking about his past experiences to talking about modern day Brentford.

To grab this golden opportunity of talking about what this progressive, forward thinking club is doing right now.

The past is the past, we all don’t live there any more. What matters is today, and tomorrow, and accepting and dealing with the challenges of stopping discrimination to anyone for whatever reason.

So, Billy, it was a great interview, but just wish you had presented a real view of modern day Brentford FC, as a positive example of what is happening, rather just leaving the impression to those many listeners, who don’t know us, that we are somehow still tainted.

As has been said, the interview was interrupted by a lost phone connection.
However, I think I heard it all.

If you listen, judge for yourself.
I thought BillytheBee’s “obnoxious supporter” was at Middlesbrough for the England friendly, not at Wembley for the playoffs…
 

Andrelux

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Not sure whether Billy the Bee is on here or not, so hopefully if he sees this, or hears this comment, he’ll understand the point I’m making.

I listened to his Radio5 Live interview yesterday, and agree with the points he was making, and congratulate him on taking his stand against the obviously obnoxious supporter seated behind him at Wembley.

His support of Brentford and his media coverage in this respect is obviously generally positive.

However, between the current ‘now’ issue of the racist debate and what is happening in football, there was a point at which I didn’t think mentioning Brentford helped the club in the light of what Brentford FC is like in the modern day.

Billy referred to his life in the past, when he experienced a lot of racist abuse, and I can see how that experience coming at him would leave a lasting impression.

It is when he said words to the effect or similar -"Even my own fans abused me and gave me a kicking". He said this on 2 or 3 occasions and it obviously refers to Brentford.
Now he has every right to talk about his personal experience of supporting us.

However, as we all know, the club, staff and players have made tremendous efforts to be an all-inclusive club, one that kicks out any form of racism, and works so hard to be a family club of true equality that appeals to everyone, regardless of race, sex, religion and totally rejecting discrimination of any sort.

I was just very surprised that Billy did not go on from talking about his past experiences to talking about modern day Brentford.

To grab this golden opportunity of talking about what this progressive, forward thinking club is doing right now.

The past is the past, we all don’t live there any more. What matters is today, and tomorrow, and accepting and dealing with the challenges of stopping discrimination to anyone for whatever reason.

So, Billy, it was a great interview, but just wish you had presented a real view of modern day Brentford FC, as a positive example of what is happening, rather just leaving the impression to those many listeners, who don’t know us, that we are somehow still tainted.

As has been said, the interview was interrupted by a lost phone connection.
However, I think I heard it all.

If you listen, judge for yourself.
It happened at Mbro, not Wembley.
"My own fans" I think refers to England games.
 

Houghton Bee

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Understand your point to a degree and don’t think it’s badly intentioned, but I’m sorry, I just don’t agree.

Fans aren’t booing because they are racist or don’t want others to be able to have a stance on important issues.

They’re booing because ‘taking a knee’ has become a ritual at football games without any of them being asked and without any reasonable justification. Sky were very keen to run with the line that “football is the fans game” when they were threatened by the super league but when it comes to cramming down a certain message for PR reasons suddenly they have little tolerance for the views of fans. Now fans are back at stadiums I think most (or, at least, a lot) just want to move on and recapture the game for themselves rather than continue to cede it to broadcasters and socio-political agenda (that in the case of what happened in Minnesota is very very distant for most people here).

How many 'rituals' have fans ever been asked about? :LOL:

When the BAME players feel it's time to stop taking all of 5 seconds out of your precious time, I'm sure we'll move on, as the Brentford players have. As they keep being abused online and in grounds I suspect we'll be seeing it for a while yet.

Is there any evidence that the majority of fans want to 'move on' or is it just your opinion that you are projecting as having majority support?
 

RG41Bee

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I have to say BFC1997 I do agree with what you say .
I do feel its a tad hypocritical of the multi millionaire, pampered footballers particularly in the EPL making any sort of grand gesture and talking about “inequality” in society. They have a privileged life compared to people who struggle to earn a living.

In my opinion it’s more important to me to treat anyone with respect, kindness and dignity rather than make empty gestures.
At the end of the day footballers and football in general is an entertainment business .
Footballers are paid to entertain not educate .

if the footballers want to show their support and demonstrate positive action to remove racism in sport then they should do it in their own time .

I personally go to football for escapism from the outside world’s problems not to be in another environment reminding me of them.
 

BFC1997

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How many 'rituals' have fans ever been asked about? :LOL:

Is there any evidence that the majority of fans want to 'move on' or is it just your opinion that you are projecting as having majority support?

Pre-game rituals have usually always been fan-led or fan instigated. National anthems, for example.

And yes, I said “most (or at least a lot)” want to move on. I think that’s audible from the reception from crowds. Obviously that’s variable club to club, fanbase to fanbase etc.
 

Leicester Bee

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Do some fans really think that "taking the knee" is about George Floyd? It's not. It's about anti-discrimination. But, I do agree that the actual real message hasn't been communicated that well.
It might not change the minds of those whose opinions are firmly entrenched by now, but for any kids watching, asking why players are taking the knee, this is still a positive educational gesture.
Doing nothing is not the way forward. Taking the knee is a small gesture that I don't understand why it is so vehemently booed by some. It's not political, and in any case, politics and sport have always mixed. Boycotts of the Olympics and boycotts of South Africa are just two major examples that spring to mind.
What is important is education and ensuring that the younger generation grow up understanding what anti-discrimination means. Taking the knee, by virtue of the fact that it is a major discussion point, must be working. But it will amount to nothing if there aren't some serious actions taken to further the cause.
 

hanworthbee

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Whilst listening to the Beesotted podcast billy grant didn't agree at all with what the club decided to do....I'm not really interested at all in what people like me and 95% of the other comments above think.....! We should do something as doing nothing is no good at all imo
 

-superbees2k3-

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Understand your point to a degree and don’t think it’s badly intentioned, but I’m sorry, I just don’t agree.

Fans aren’t booing because they are racist or don’t want others to be able to have a stance on important issues.

They’re booing because ‘taking a knee’ has become a ritual at football games without any of them being asked and without any reasonable justification. Sky were very keen to run with the line that “football is the fans game” when they were threatened by the super league but when it comes to cramming down a certain message for PR reasons suddenly they have little tolerance for the views of fans. Now fans are back at stadiums I think most (or, at least, a lot) just want to move on and recapture the game for themselves rather than continue to cede it to broadcasters and socio-political agenda (that in the case of what happened in Minnesota is very very distant for most people here).

I think you’re probably right about the intentions of the majority that are booing. But I can’t seem to wrap my head around paying to watch people of colour play football but being unwilling to see them take a stand against something which affects them and their families. You can argue whether taking a knee will be effective or not, but why does it make some people so uncomfortable?
 
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