'The Press' - Have we been worked out?

[Hippobee]

Serious question this. Have we really been worked out (which about 90% of the match threads since Barnsley have said is the case). Or is there another reason we've looked cack for most of the past 3 matches?

I ask, because we were all saying we'd been worked out at the end of last season when Stoke and Swansea stopped us playing. And it was also repeated at the start of this season. But strangely, no mention of it in our 21 game unbeaten run. And I'm pretty sure some sides will have tried to employ it, particularly as we went behind in a few of those. If they did, then it didn't work.

In my opinion, I don't think it's the press, although clearly, our players have to work harder to get around it, rather than just 'let us play.' I think the last week is probably a combination of:

a) Fatigue (yes - I know it's the same for everyone, but many of our 'key' players haven't been rotated).
b) Lack of experience. The two players most capable of driving others on (Pontus & Christian) are out injured.
c) (linked to b) Players (and coaches?) perhaps believing the hype once we were at the top of the table?

People point to other teams having poor runs which is true. However, I do remember Leeds having a mini poor run last season, but they still looked good. The Barnsley and Coventry performances are two of the worst I have seen for a long time. That's of far more concern to me than the actual results. A real lack of mental toughness there and lack of resilience when put under a bit of pressure.

 

[Invipai]

Arguably, but I'd say it's more that our heads have dropped. We're good enough to play through a press (arguably not at the levels Barnsley do it at), but the last two games has struck me as confidence rather than what the opposition are necessarily doing.

 

[wanderer paul]

Eh? You either press or sit back. It’s nothing new!!

Teams have pressed us last few games and games before that too.

We need the guile and quality to overcome it. We’re on a downer. We need picking up. Leadership.

15 games to go.....

 

[beebopalula]

We have been sussed no doubt. IMO when we are being well pressed we need to switch and use a long ball more often and concentrate on winning second balls. We also need to revisit our defensive play which has gone. We are no longer compact when under pressure.By all means play to dominate the ball but only when we can. You need leaders on the pitch to dictate that and that's another issue. We only have Toney at the mo.

 

[SamwiseBee]

Footballs never as easy as one thing but IMO the high press is the main reason we lost against Barnsley and today.

QPR more a fatigue (part mental) issue going into cruise mentality.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Eh? You either press or sit back. It’s nothing new!!

Teams have pressed us last few games and games before that too.

We need the guile and quality to overcome it. We’re on a downer. We need picking up. Leadership.

15 games to go.....

Agree, that is a big thing thats missing atm. No HD so MJ picks up the arm band, doesnt strike me as a man motivator.

 

[bees1984]

Don't think so. Teams have been pressing all season and we went on a very long unbeaten run. On a bad run and I can't say anything positive about today's performance but we haven't been worked out or anything like that and we shouldn't question the foundations that have got is where we are. If everyone was fit we wouldn't see what is happening on the pitch at the minute in my opinion. Going to be tough to get autos now but not out of the question but more importantly with players coming back we should look strong going into the play offs....assuming we don't do a proper Brentford

 

[beeeehive]

It's more we are second to a lot of balls all over the pitch, that's the main worry.

 

[lanzabee]

This idea that teams have suddenly found us out by pressing us lacks credibility. Teams have pressed us in the past - and when we're on our game we have punished them.

 

[Shamrock_Bee]

Serious question this. Have we really been worked out (which about 90% of the match threads since Barnsley have said is the case). Or is there another reason we've looked cack for most of the past 3 matches?

I ask, because we were all saying we'd been worked out at the end of last season when Stoke and Swansea stopped us playing. And it was also repeated at the start of this season. But strangely, no mention of it in our 21 game unbeaten run. And I'm pretty sure some sides will have tried to employ it, particularly as we went behind in a few of those. If they did, then it didn't work.

In my opinion, I don't think it's the press, although clearly, our players have to work harder to get around it, rather than just 'let us play.' I think the last week is probably a combination of:

a) Fatigue (yes - I know it's the same for everyone, but many of our 'key' players haven't been rotated).
b) Lack of experience. The two players most capable of driving others on (Pontus & Christian) are out injured.
c) (linked to b) Players (and coaches?) perhaps believing the hype once we were at the top of the table?

People point to other teams having poor runs which is true. However, I do remember Leeds having a mini poor run last season, but they still looked good. The Barnsley and Coventry performances are two of the worst I have seen for a long time. That's of far more concern to me than the actual results. A real lack of mental toughness there and lack of resilience when put under a bit of pressure.

After Barnsely I'd say no; it's their strength but after today, and how they completly changed their way of playing to introduce more press and physicality to effectively hammer us, I'd say we're in big trouble.

 

[Houghton Bee]

It was obvious last season we struggled to cope with 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 high pressing us, the biggest surprise to me is more teams havent tried it.

 

[LingfieldBee]

I'll throw this out their, over confidence has caused this little blip. The hype and over confidence has hit the psychology of this team hard you can see it in the body language of the team. We have played out of the press all season, because it has been short sharp snappy passes to break the press. The lack of movement today killed us, you can't break the press with statues. Also with Toney when we have got stuck the long ball has been held up well.

You saw it after that great run end of last season confidence was sky high two bad results and it was like a freight train has hit their confidence.

 

[seanrs]

I'll throw this out their, over confidence has caused this little blip. The hype and over confidence has hit the psychology of this team hard you can see it in the body language of the team. We have played out of the press all season, because it has been short sharp snappy passes to break the press. The lack of movement today killed us, you can't break the press with statues. Also with Toney when we have got stuck the long ball has been held up well.

You saw it after that great run end of last season confidence was sky high two bad results and it was like a freight train has hit their confidence.

Spot on. Lack of movement and lack of outlet for long ball. It might be over simplifying things but this was it in a nutshell

 

[beetee]

It was obvious last season we struggled to cope with 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 high pressing us, the biggest surprise to me is more teams havent tried it.

Even more surprising that we still haven't learnt to deal with it.
Why dont we stick Henrik further up the pitch against a shorter fullback anymore and hit high balls to him when required like we used to?

 

[jlove]

Even more surprising that we still haven't learnt to deal with it.
Why dont we stick Henrik further up the pitch against a shorter fullback anymore and hit high balls to him when required like we used to?

Because that's (was) Henry's role, with Henrik holding back to make a back three.

 

[beetee]

Because that's (was) Henry's role, with Henrik holding back to make a back three.

But Henry's 5ft nothing

 

[jlove]

But Henry's 5ft nothing

It's worked for the last 9 months or so, far enough in space to control the ball and pass it on.

 

[beetee]

It's worked for the last 9 months or so, far enough in space to control the ball and pass it on.

Nothing stopping us doing both at different times in the match

 

[beetee]

Just to cheer people up a bit Swansea are 4-1 down

 

[Adam]

Teams have been pressing us when we play it out from the back for at least 5 years . Raya and Henry making huge errors had very little to do with pressing, it was mainly due to poor individual decision making.

The team look knackered, that’s the issue. We broke the press 2 or 3 times in the first half, and apart from the player on the ball the rest of the side were static.

 

[Norfolk Bee]

Three defeats in a week, six goals conceded. Pretty much all mistakes and avoidable. The other teams did remarkably little other than press and exploit mistakes. Annoying.

 

[Alan D]

I'm no super coach, but if teams try pressing us high they must be leaving some vast spaces which we should be able to exploit. For example I saw a shot of Barnsley having five people within ten yards of our penalty area and yet for some reason we couldn't exploit the extra space that was on offer.

 

[Berkobee]

Footballs never as easy as one thing but IMO the high press is the main reason we lost against Barnsley and today.

QPR more a fatigue (part mental) issue going into cruise mentality.

This is right, and the other thing both Barnsley and Coventry did (the latter probably imitating the former) was to use all 5 subs. When you are allowed to change half your team, you can keep up a high press throughout the game without running out of steam after an hour. This is the key change we are not coping with.

 

[Indian Bee]

Three defeats in a week, six goals conceded. Pretty much all mistakes and avoidable. The other teams did remarkably little other than press and exploit mistakes. Annoying.

100% spot on - all were mistakes and avoidable. As TF alluded to in his interview our mistakes in the last 6 days have been punished. Equally, except for the first half against QPR, we haven't played well in those 3 games.

 

[Ruislip_Rich]

The main reason we struggled playing out from the back today was a lack of confidence
Plus over the last 3 games Rico has looked knackered. Him and HD are so important to the way we play.
Hopefully a win on/against Wednesday will sort it out.

 

[GP200]

.............Cor Bees..............

 

[WARFIELD BEE]

We have been sussed no doubt. IMO when we are being well pressed we need to switch and use a long ball more often and concentrate on winning second balls. We also need to revisit our defensive play which has gone. We are no longer compact when under pressure.By all means play to dominate the ball but only when we can. You need leaders on the pitch to dictate that and that's another issue. We only have Toney at the mo.

Up front we aren't winning the first ball let alone second without IT.

 

[hairman]

Up front we aren't winning the first ball let alone second without IT.

Up front we didn't win the first ball let alone second without IT.

On the evidence of one game.

 

[readingbee]

Personally i think it’s more a case that we’ve got a relatively small genuine first team squad which has been depleted most of this season. With the addition of a minimal period of time between the playoffs and the start of this season. Add in the number of games played in a short period this season giving little recovery time all of this is beginning to tell, more than some realise. It’s having a greater effect than teams sussing us out in my opinion.

I can’t see our natural starting 11 being beaten by many, if any in any this league. if only we could start with them.

Other opinions are available online via Facebook and Twitter.

 

[Sandybee]

Serious question this. Have we really been worked out (which about 90% of the match threads since Barnsley have said is the case). Or is there another reason we've looked cack for most of the past 3 matches?

I ask, because we were all saying we'd been worked out at the end of last season when Stoke and Swansea stopped us playing. And it was also repeated at the start of this season. But strangely, no mention of it in our 21 game unbeaten run. And I'm pretty sure some sides will have tried to employ it, particularly as we went behind in a few of those. If they did, then it didn't work.

In my opinion, I don't think it's the press, although clearly, our players have to work harder to get around it, rather than just 'let us play.' I think the last week is probably a combination of:

a) Fatigue (yes - I know it's the same for everyone, but many of our 'key' players haven't been rotated).
b) Lack of experience. The two players most capable of driving others on (Pontus & Christian) are out injured.
c) (linked to b) Players (and coaches?) perhaps believing the hype once we were at the top of the table?

People point to other teams having poor runs which is true. However, I do remember Leeds having a mini poor run last season, but they still looked good. The Barnsley and Coventry performances are two of the worst I have seen for a long time. That's of far more concern to me than the actual results. A real lack of mental toughness there and lack of resilience when put under a bit of pressure.

That’s a good post. We had Alan McCormack once, and then Mokotjo after him, then we got Nørgaard, all gradual improvements on their predecessors. We’re definitely missing Norgaard as this position is vital to beat the press cos they follow up the loose ball and the lay-off. Also, Watkins was a good target man as he could hold the ball up and also run onto a long ball over the press, whereas Toney is not quite as adept. Nevertheless he’s a great finisher, and it’s goals that count, hence our position.

 

[shouldbee]

TF is always banging on about the performance is more important than the result. Well now our performances are shocking and the results are, well we know. Next 3 opponents are Sheff Weds, Stoke and Norwich. Unless there are big improvements in performance it's hard to see more that 3 points coming our way ?

 

[TG51]

Personally i think it’s more a case that we’ve got a relatively small genuine first team squad which has been depleted most of this season. With the addition of a minimal period of time between the playoffs and the start of this season. Add in the number of games played in a short period this season giving little recovery time all of this is beginning to tell, more than some realise. It’s having a greater effect than teams sussing us out in my opinion.

I can’t see our natural starting 11 being beaten by many, if any in any this league. if only we could start with them.

Other opinions are available online via Facebook and Twitter.

I agree but would also add our cup runs to the workload for some.

 

[Leedsbee]

The problem is the schedule, key players losing form and confidence and the effects of injuries.Other teams aren't stupid they'll take lessons from how to counteract us both against the team and against individuals.Without the chance to train,practice and adapt during the week ,to keep one step ahead we feel like we've hit a wall.If we found ourselves second having lost three games in twenty four we'd be very happy.Really don't like the emotional toll it looks like its taking on Thomas would love to be able to give him a collective hug .He won't be able to relax of course but he does need our total,unconditional support.

 

[dickie]

That’s a good post. We had Alan McCormack once, and then Mokotjo after him, then we got Nørgaard, all gradual improvements on their predecessors. We’re definitely missing Norgaard as this position is vital to beat the press cos they follow up the loose ball and the lay-off. Also, Watkins was a good target man as he could hold the ball up and also run onto a long ball over the press, whereas Toney is not quite as adept. Nevertheless he’s a great finisher, and it’s goals that count, hence our position.

And Forss is no Watkins or Toney so with him being the main striker new tactics are needed - it’s not a like for like swap as we all saw yesterday. Something like 12 touches in the first 70 minutes?

 

[West Wilts Bee]

End of the day its 11v11,and our 11 as a. Team are better than most other 11”s We seem to be a bit shell shocked this last week. Time for Thomas and the gang to work this out and go hell for leather these last 15 games. There is no doubt in my mind that we are a match for any other team in this league, 21 games undefeated in this league is superb, has any other team in this league done that this season?no lets forget this week and kick on COYB

 

[abellbee]

We have been sussed no doubt. IMO when we are being well pressed we need to switch and use a long ball more often and concentrate on winning second balls. We also need to revisit our defensive play which has gone. We are no longer compact when under pressure.By all means play to dominate the ball but only when we can. You need leaders on the pitch to dictate that and that's another issue. We only have Toney at the mo.

But if Toney is isolated up front with 2 wide players also isolated out wide & 2 of the 3 midfielders yesterday unable to make a 50/50 challenge let alone win one, the chances of you winning 2nd balls is remote so you just invite constant pressure on the back 4 that can't cope for 90 minutes. Plain truth is our system needs to build from the back, stop that & we are ineffective.

 

[murphy]

Teams have been pressing us when we play it out from the back for at least 5 years . Raya and Henry making huge errors had very little to do with pressing, it was mainly due to poor individual decision making.

The team look knackered, that’s the issue. We broke the press 2 or 3 times in the first half, and apart from the player on the ball the rest of the side were static.

Under pressure our players become individual players they don't pass and move.

 

[Magical]

I'm no super coach, but if teams try pressing us high they must be leaving some vast spaces which we should be able to exploit. For example I saw a shot of Barnsley having five people within ten yards of our penalty area and yet for some reason we couldn't exploit the extra space that was on offer.

Our keeper defends the 18 yard line so long ball into space for runners is not an option, and passing out is very difficult unless your one touch passing to feet, not space, we cover space not players, putting the ball in space for runners is impossible against us if we’re at it.

 

[beebopalula]

But if Toney is isolated up front with 2 wide players also isolated out wide & 2 of the 3 midfielders yesterday unable to make a 50/50 challenge let alone win one, the chances of you winning 2nd balls is remote so you just invite constant pressure on the back 4 that can't cope for 90 minutes. Plain truth is our system needs to build from the back, stop that & we are ineffective.

If you go long ball the wide players have to come close to the central attacker and the team needs to close the gaps and come closer as a unit. It's old school 4-3-3. So if we are getting hard pressed and being forced to play long ball then the team has to adjust. That requires organisation and planning.
I agree it won't work if we simply start hitting long ball without an underlying change in tactics.
The Coventry manager said they intended to hard press us from the start and the rest will do it to us from now on as we have def been sussed. So we had better seriously think about plan B. If we get on top there's nothing to prevent us reverting to our preferred style when it's on.