Things other fans say about Brentford FC

pompeybee

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I read from the Wiki page on the 73 CWC that "UEFA later banned Michas [reh ref] for life due to match fixing, although his role in this match was not investigated"

So not proof at all rests on this match.
The Wiki page on Michas himself reads differently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christos_Michas

Just goes to show you can't always rely on Wikipedia. Who'd have thought it?

The source in Note 3 might help, but it's all Greek to me.
 

Banana

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The Wiki page on Michas himself reads differently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christos_Michas

Just goes to show you can't always rely on Wikipedia. Who'd have thought it?

The source in Note 3 might help, but it's all Greek to me.
"The Greek referee was then punished by UEFA and the Hellenic Football Federation, "but there has never been an investigation into whether he was bribed" "

So, just inept
 

kevalutonbee

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I just watched the first half highlights, You can't blame the ref for a free kick that goes through the wall, or countless missed chances. There was also a double footed leap through the air from Lorimer that completed floored a Milan player that today would have been a red card and a six match ban. So swings and roundabouts and all that.
That or myopic supporters of a club in South Yorkshire
 

Banana

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http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php/Christos_Michas

Here's another source: 'Subsequently Michas was convicted of match fixing in a court in Greece relating to events in the final.'

I suspect that UEFA would have been reluctant to acknowledge that a match under their jurisdiction had been rigged. They're corrupt and inept too.
That;s wikipedia - so edited by a Leeds fan. No reference provided.
 

Wise old Bee

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So this is one of those things that really interests me, why WACCOE narks people so much. From our point of view, it's a reference back to two specific matches, the 73 CWC Final and the 75 EC Final, both of which we were cheated out of (and the refs banned from after). It speaks not to a literal achievement (because we've never won a European Trophy) but to a sense of grievance and injustice the fanbase feels. We sing it because we think it about ourselves, and it's not intended to be a literal statement. Incidentally, if (in the future of my dreams) we did win the Champions League, I don't think we'd sing it any more. For the first season after when we were reigning European Champions? Sure, every match, non stop. But after that, when we'd been Champions of Europe but no longer were? It would feel wrong, because we'd have righted that historical wrong and could bury that particular demon. So we sing WACCOE because we're not the Champions of Europe, and if we were, we wouldn't sing it.
Surely Leeds have won a European trophy.... the old Fairs Cup, which became the EUFA cup, in the late 60s? I am old enough to remember the 1975 final and Leeds were hard done-by on the night. I'm afraid it was the nasty cynical side of LUFC in the Revie era which conditioned many people's view of the club for decades after. I saw them "live" and they were truly horrible, which they didn't need to be. I once saw them kick the crap out of a poor QPR side at Loftus Road to the extent I actually wanted QPR to win. I quite admire most Leeds supporters who have a world-weary view of football and I really like Elland Road. You are lucky to have Bielsa who is a quality bloke but, at the back of my mind, there are always distant memories of the truly horrible side of half a century ago.
 

bee good

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I actually would be interested to know what the accepted 'facts' are with this game. I.e was it bent or not. There must have been some competent investigative books about it produced over the 40 years since. Likewise the Brighton Watford game that did for us in 1958. I've heard about but never really known what actually happened.
 

LeedsW5

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Surely Leeds have won a European trophy.... the old Fairs Cup, which became the EUFA cup, in the late 60s? I am old enough to remember the 1975 final and Leeds were hard done-by on the night. I'm afraid it was the nasty cynical side of LUFC in the Revie era which conditioned many people's view of the club for decades after. I saw them "live" and they were truly horrible, which they didn't need to be. I once saw them kick the crap out of a poor QPR side at Loftus Road to the extent I actually wanted QPR to win. I quite admire most Leeds supporters who have a world-weary view of football and I really like Elland Road. You are lucky to have Bielsa who is a quality bloke but, at the back of my mind, there are always distant memories of the truly horrible side of half a century ago.
I'm not sure, the Fairs was an invitational tournament so I'd not really count it. Also, imagine how we'd react if Chelsea started calling themselves Champions of Europe for winning the Europa League. So no, don't count it.

I agree the 60s & 70s team were hard, but so was every team at that time. There's an odd thing going along where people imagine the likes of Chopper Harris were ballerinas while Norman Hunter killed kids for fun. I think a lot of it came from the fact that at the time Leeds were seen as arrivisites, a long time 2nd divison side jumped up to competing for silverware for the first time, which was always going to rub people up the wrong way. Coupled with an incredibly insular cub culture (which still lasts today) and a club management who hated the press of the time, and you've got a perfect cocktail for caricature.

That said, some of the blame for that has to lie with Don Revie who, for all his successes, was a very cyncial and conservative manager when he had one of the best squads of that or indeed any era. It's one of football's great might-have-been's what would have happened had Cloughie succeeded at Elland Road. Alas, we'll never know.

http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php/Christos_Michas

Here's another source: 'Subsequently Michas was convicted of match fixing in a court in Greece relating to events in the final.'

I suspect that UEFA would have been reluctant to acknowledge that a match under their jurisdiction had been rigged. They're corrupt and inept too.
Yep, he was banned for match fixing in general, but not for this specific match. Gets the man out of the picture while leaving UEFA in the clear. Which is convenient...

I actually would be interested to know what the accepted 'facts' are with this game. I.e was it bent or not. There must have been some competent investigative books about it produced over the 40 years since. Likewise the Brighton Watford game that did for us in 1958. I've heard about but never really known what actually happened.
I doubt you'll find out now. Both managers and the Referee are dead, along with the entire board of both clubs, three of the Milan team and one of the Leeds side. All you'll find is that Greece had a massive match-fixing problem at the time, Michas was convicted of match fixing domestc games and in the CWC Final he gave lots of inexplicable decisions which everyone watching thought were wrong. But did he fix that specific match? You'll never be able to prove it either way.
 

johndub

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I’m aware Leeds had the reputation of being a hard, dirty, cynical side under Revie in the 70’s but, credit where credit’s due, they played some lovely football as well,
Does anyone remember when they beat Southampton 7-0 in 1972?
 

Newport Pagnell Bee

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I’m aware Leeds had the reputation of being a hard, dirty, cynical side under Revie in the 70’s but, credit where credit’s due, they played some lovely football as well,
Does anyone remember when they beat Southampton 7-0 in 1972?
Remember it well. Pretty much humiliated Southampton. They were an excellent footballing side with some great players. They really didn't need to do the cynical stuff. I think that was what puzzled most non Leeds' fans the most.
 
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Excellent interview with Villa's Conor Hourihane on the Going Up Going Down podcast. Says like most other players he hates playing at Griffin Park as he always gets battered there. Didn't Jed Wallace of Millwall say something similar?
 

Herbert

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Excellent interview with Villa's Conor Hourihane on the Going Up Going Down podcast. Says like most other players he hates playing at Griffin Park as he always gets battered there. Didn't Jed Wallace of Millwall say something similar?
Going Millwall is the same for us
 

badgerbee

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https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/championship-wages-furlough-preston-leeds-18140114

Alex Neil supports calls for Leeds United and Brentford transfer ban"
 
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kevalutonbee

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'Ayes B

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Probably a controversial view but I tend to agree with him.
I agree and disagree with what he is saying. In my opinion it would be wrong to give money to others when we owe money to our own staff, however as our players have voluntarily deffered their wages, we should speculate to protect their future earnings.

It cant be wrong to offer (and deffer) pay rises to players who we want to bring in and for us to sign new players who agree to defer their signing on fees and initial wages. Hopefully we can defer some of the fee, which i understand clubs often pay in instalments.

As long as we keep our promises, are fair and get the buy in of the current playing staff then we should sign players and do so with a clean conscious
 

wanderer paul

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Probably a controversial view but I tend to agree with him.
Why? What are your reasons?

Brentford have a smaller income than most.

Brentford rely heavily on MB and transfer sales to survive in this division.

Where do you think the income comes from? Trees?

The players themselves, before any other Club announced stuff like deferrals, decided to defer payments. NOT WAGE CUTS. Deferred.

Just because PNE, and some others, haven’t furloughed staff, are they right or is it up to the Club to decide what is right for them? To survive.

Furloughed staff are paid. Will Brentford pay the other 20%? Who knows?

Think of all the businesses that have furloughed staff owned by multi multi millionaires, are they wrong too? Should those companies be looked upon differently?
 

kevalutonbee

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Deferred means it will be paid eventually just not now. The players have not taken a pay cut
 

Wayne

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I'd be annoyed if my wages were deferred and then the company who i work for go and employ other people . Pay your debts to the existing staff, honour their contract then move on. Makes sense to me.
 

badgerbee

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I'd be annoyed if my wages were deferred and then the company who i work for go and employ other people . Pay your debts to the existing staff, honour their contract then move on. Makes sense to me.
Would you be annoyed if was you that had made the suggestion to your employer that you were happy to have your wages deferred??
 

TorbayBee

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All sorts of businesses are taking advantage of the furlough scheme. My opinion is that I could not give a flying f*** about Alex Neil. There is no ‘higher principle’ here - he is looking for an advantage, we are looking for an advantage. If doing this helps our club then do it.
 

wanderer paul

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I'd be annoyed if my wages were deferred and then the company who i work for go and employ other people . Pay your debts to the existing staff, honour their contract then move on. Makes sense to me.
You do know it was the players that took the initiative to defer their own wages, don’t you? lol

Any new players, incoming, will be under the same wage restrictions. Or the football club pay what was deferred and just carry on...... very odd.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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They're debating championship manager and players of the season on Sky Football at the moment. Lengthy discussions on each position. Scott Minto went for Thomas as manager. Rico has just had a mention. Tune in quick.
 

8corner

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I'd be annoyed if my wages were deferred and then the company who i work for go and employ other people . Pay your debts to the existing staff, honour their contract then move on. Makes sense to me.
Would you want your employer's trading to be restricted when things returned to normal?
 

red_and_white

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I'd be annoyed if my wages were deferred and then the company who i work for go and employ other people . Pay your debts to the existing staff, honour their contract then move on. Makes sense to me.
I see your point, personally though I think the reason players agreed to it was based on the longer term view. Investing in player transfers is integral to the club’s model of making money, and player wages are the biggest outgoing.

If we cannot trade, we lose the player sales of £10-15m a season, which would in turn mean we’d need to cut back on our biggest outgoing: player wage budget
 

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Pat Nevin made a point which is often overlooked in this player wage cut/deferral/furlough debate.

If a club unilaterally cuts its players' wages, then they are in breech of contract, meaning the players could walk away on a free.

And while players at wealthy clubs who pay big wages are in a position to take a (temporary) wage cut, players at poorer clubs (i.e. the majority) are worried that if they take a cut now and/or a deferral, they could see their club go bust in a few weeks and not get all of the money due to them. Worse still, in the post-epidemic world, wages are bound to be suppressed for a period - that's if they could find another club to take them on.

Obviously there's no chance of BFC going bust, but the club won't want to impose a wage cut, so a deferral it is.
 

Wayne

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Would you be annoyed if was you that had made the suggestion to your employer that you were happy to have your wages deferred??
If I'd made the offer and then they went and employed other people I'd be raging
 

Wayne

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You do know it was the players that took the initiative to defer their own wages, don’t you? lol

Any new players, incoming, will be under the same wage restrictions. Or the football club pay what was deferred and just carry on...... very odd.
Yeah sign on x a week but you'll get y when everything is back to normal....players won't be signing upto that arrangement.
 

Doovster

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Yeah sign on x a week but you'll get y when everything is back to normal....players won't be signing upto that arrangement.
This is all in the interest of cash flow and ensuring that the club can survive. If things don't return to normal anytime soon BFC are unlikely to bring in a new player on 20 grand a week and keep everyone else on a deferred salary of 5k per week.

As for a player saying thanks but no thanks I doubt they will have an abundance of choice as if we're effectively 'fecked' I suspect the majority of clubs in the Championship will be too.

Brentford are, without doubt, one of the best clubs in the league when it comes to sensibly managing its finances. This is all about sensible short term cash management and Alex Neil can do one quite frankly.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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This is all in the interest of cash flow and ensuring that the club can survive. If things don't return to normal anytime soon BFC are unlikely to bring in a new player on 20 grand a week and keep everyone else on a deferred salary of 5k per week.

As for a player saying thanks but no thanks I doubt they will have an abundance of choice as if we're effectively 'fecked' I suspect the majority of clubs in the Championship will be too.

Brentford are, without doubt, one of the best clubs in the league when it comes to sensibly managing its finances. This is all about sensible short term cash management and Alex Neil can do one quite frankly.
Who was it on the phone? ;) lol
 

wanderer paul

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Yeah sign on x a week but you'll get y when everything is back to normal....players won't be signing upto that arrangement.
How do you know? :scratch:

Football will be different when it restarts. Players and Clubs will have to look at themselves a lot closer now.
 

Indian Bee

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Pat Nevin made a point which is often overlooked in this player wage cut/deferral/furlough debate.

If a club unilaterally cuts its players' wages, then they are in breech of contract, meaning the players could walk away on a free.

And while players at wealthy clubs who pay big wages are in a position to take a (temporary) wage cut, players at poorer clubs (i.e. the majority) are worried that if they take a cut now and/or a deferral, they could see their club go bust in a few weeks and not get all of the money due to them. Worse still, in the post-epidemic world, wages are bound to be suppressed for a period - that's if they could find another club to take them on.

Obviously there's no chance of BFC going bust, but the club won't want to impose a wage cut, so a deferral it is.
Whilst I agree BFC are unlikely to go bust, not sure one can confidently say there is no chance. Regardless of the outcome to the season, before the Covid-19, BFC were on course to receive £40m in summer transfer fees at least - if we had or will get promoted then obviously the income increases.

What I cannot comprehend yet in my own mind is that it is highly unlikely I will ever set foot inside Griffin Park again.
 

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