Thomas Frank - Signs to June 2023 (3 Viewers)

FJBee

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Frank has done an excellent job this season - sure there are days like yesterday where he makes mistakes, and we looked woefully prepared for the last few games of the season (Swansea H aside), but on the whole he's shown himself to be a very good manager in the Championship. I don't put the blame for yesterday at his door.

Trust him to do well next season. I think a repeat of 10th-3rd considering likely departures, and strength of teams coming down, would show another good job done.
 

Les Beeavinu

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Frank has done an excellent job this season - sure there are days like yesterday where he makes mistakes, and we looked woefully prepared for the last few games of the season (Swansea H aside), but on the whole he's shown himself to be a very good manager in the Championship. I don't put the blame for yesterday at his door.

Trust him to do well next season. I think a repeat of 10th-3rd considering likely departures, and strength of teams coming down, would show another good job done.
He's had 3 massive games and failed to win all 3 of them. It's collective responsibility of course but I do hope he goes away and reflects on what he could have done better.
 

Leicester Bee

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No plan B. Fulham came to stop the ball from getting to our front 3. Their midfield dominated us and we were forced longer. Pretty similar to other recent games where rather than over commit, opposition just sit higher up the pitch to press us, allow us to knock the ball round the defence but press us hard in midfield.
So, what did Frank do to change this?

I even said to Frank, on the GPG zoom thing a couple of months ago, that I didn't think we had too much of a plan B against robust physical teams, which he took offence to.

This season has felt very much like the one under Warburton. Too much of letting the opposition worry about us and too much of plan B being doing plan A better.
The difference this season is that we have an extremely good first eleven, and slightly more depth in the squad.

Anyway, we move on. Frank has shown, in the past, that he is adaptable, and our squad is highly likely to keep developing to keep challenging. Last night was just another chapter in our story.
 

davido_i

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The biggest disappointment last night was not being able to change shape to better adapt to how Fulham had set up to cut off balls into Ollie. Not convinced that the three at the back has really suited us, seems to result in us launching it rather than getting our key players on the ball. Thomas Frank has been superb, if he solves countering teams who set up simply to disrupt our style, then next season will be even better than this one.
 

A Real Mysteron

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At times it was like a dads v lads game.
Fulham were far more robust than us and we didn’t lay a glove on them really.
 

jlove

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He's had 3 massive games and failed to win all 3 of them. It's collective responsibility of course but I do hope he goes away and reflects on what he could have done better.
We adapted tactically for the second Swansea game but Fulham's analysts did an exceptional job on us and it's an area that must be improved. They clearly identified the strength of our midfield pivot in Nørgaard and marked him (both tactically and physically) at the expense of their attacking to negate our midfield. They also understood that playing wide around us would both pin back our attacking full-backs and stretch the midfield, while not attempting to play through out centre backs. Thomas will need to develop a tactical response because everyone will have seen that for next season.
 

Frothybaby

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I think TF is the man to get us promotion. He is adaptable because he learns. We do need to understand how to play against those that counter and those that park buses. Fulham had a great record against those that try to stop the opposition playing. We could learn from that. However, with Fulham having worked out how to play/stop us, it shows just how good we are, that there was still nothing in it last night. A team that will be PL next season did their utmost to stop us playing, didn't do it. A game of few chances for both teams.
 

Simon C

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As obvious to all of us as it was that the back 3 we were playing at the end of last season wasn't going to last, this year's version is the 2 advanced midfielders playing wider than their starting positions and the wide attackers drifting inside. It leaves Norgaard exposed which he does well with against weaker teams or in open games but it can be exploited by clever teams with a plan. It's also mainly due to Benrahma, I don't see our remaining wide players being as clever as needed to do this so we may need to keep the width and have more cover inside anyway. I think Baptiste could be an important player for us next season who can do a bit of everything better than Emiliano, Jensen and Josh
 

grutter

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I think TF is the man to get us promotion. He is adaptable because he learns. We do need to understand how to play against those that counter and those that park buses. Fulham had a great record against those that try to stop the opposition playing. We could learn from that. However, with Fulham having worked out how to play/stop us, it shows just how good we are, that there was still nothing in it last night. A team that will be PL next season did their utmost to stop us playing, didn't do it. A game of few chances for both teams.
TF has got plenty of credit in the bank after this season. However, can't agree with other bits of your post:

-How did TF learn from the Stoke & Barnsley defeats? Saw no evidence of it last night.
-Fulham didn't stop us playing? You must have seen the game differently from me.

It's true Fulham had few chances, but that was a deliberate ploy from them; they were prepared to lose some of their attacking prowess to win the battle in the middle to stop us playing. And it worked. What genuinely good chances did we actually create in the first 105 minutes last night?

Fair play to Parker. I thought he was tactically naïve, but he got it spot on last night (no doubt having studied the Stoke & Barnsley videos as most people said opposition coaches would do). If TF is to get us promotion, then he is going to have to learn a way to get round this because after last night, most of next season's teams will set up like this, because they know it works!

MW was lambasted 5 years ago for saying plan B was to do plan A better. TF now needs an effective plan B.
 

Frothybaby

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TF has got plenty of credit in the bank after this season. However, can't agree with other bits of your post:

-How did TF learn from the Stoke & Barnsley defeats? Saw no evidence of it last night.
-Fulham didn't stop us playing? You must have seen the game differently from me.

It's true Fulham had few chances, but that was a deliberate ploy from them; they were prepared to lose some of their attacking prowess to win the battle in the middle to stop us playing. And it worked. What genuinely good chances did we actually create in the first 105 minutes last night?

Fair play to Parker. I thought he was tactically naïve, but he got it spot on last night (no doubt having studied the Stoke & Barnsley videos as most people said opposition coaches would do). If TF is to get us promotion, then he is going to have to learn a way to get round this because after last night, most of next season's teams will set up like this, because they know it works!

MW was lambasted 5 years ago for saying plan B was to do plan A better. TF now needs an effective plan B.
I don't think Stoke and Barnsley did the same thing to us and neither did Fulham. Are you suggesting that Fulham didn't want to create more scoring chances?:scratch: I don't think Fulham had more than we did. There were no obvious chances for either team in the first 90 minutes, and possibly over the whole match with the exception of their second goal. I didn't state that Fulham stopped us playing, BUT they had worked out a way of doing it, but we were still good enough, that it didn't work for them as they hoped. They adapted their game after watching others play us identifying weaknesses. We do the same. I don't want to see us trying to play like Stoke, I have seen years of our football and this is the best of them. I have seen TF try other plans when A doesn't work. If you haven't, then we must have been watching different games.;)
 

kevalutonbee

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I have seen TF try other plans when A doesn't work. If you haven't, then we must have been watching different games.
Agreed. Look at what happened after the famous whiteboard incident for example
 

Simon C

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Agreed. Look at what happened after the famous whiteboard incident for example
I think a lot of people still equate Plan B with either throw a big man up top or make some subs when as you say it's often subtle in game tactics. He does that well whether it's bringing Benrahma inside behind Watkins, swapping Da Silva & Jensen across he has done it and it has affected games positively.

The only areas I can question TF this season on are sticking with the back 3 for too many matches at the start of the season and chasing the Stoke & Barnsley games with too many subs which lost our shape. In both those games we still just needed one goal going into the last few minutes to get the result we needed and our best chance of doing that was playing our normal way with subtle adjustments like against Charlton.
 

sid

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I think it's ten or eleven one nil defeats this season. People are
right no plan B, we keep doing the same things all the time even
when it's not working. Are we trying to disprove Einstein's
theory of Stupidity?
 

grutter

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Are you suggesting that Fulham didn't want to create more scoring chances?:scratch:
Yes - that's exactly what I am saying. Their plan was to stop us playing out from the back and creating chances, which meant more resources and effort channelled for pressing rather than trying to create their own chances. That's why he didn't play the league's top scorer from the outset. They knew they had to play differently from both league games. Parker learnt from those defeats.

A team that will be PL next season did their utmost to stop us playing, didn't do it. A game of few chances for both teams..."I didn't state that Fulham stopped us playing, BUT they had worked out a way of doing it," :scratch:

But they clearly DID stop us playing. Not sure what you're trying to say here.
 
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Bangor Bee

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I think that as TF reflects on what he could have been done better during the season, he will look back to those opening 11 games that yielded just 12 points. We should have started the season with Jansson and Pinnock as two central defenders; instead TF persisted with three central defenders even though the formation palpably wasn't working. During that period our midfield looked well short of what was required and we scored just nine goals. That has come back to bite us.
 

jlove

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I think it's ten or eleven one nil defeats this season. People are
right no plan B, we keep doing the same things all the time even
when it's not working. Are we trying to disprove Einstein's
theory of Stupidity?
Have you watched any games this season? Sometimes we've changed 3 and 4 times during games, especially chasing points. There's B, C and D!
 

greenshoots

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Look I am not interested in how many times you've posted, it bares no relevance to the validity of your opinion. So if you wouldn't mind refraining from the easy excuse of "my opinion doesn't count cos I've only posted X number of times" and answer me this - on the evidence that Thomas Frank has improved our finishing position to 3rd, our defensive record to the second best in the league and our attacking record to the best in the league I am more than happy he can improve us again, what in your opinion is the reason and evidence to the contrary?
Fair enough, my head has cleared now. Oh dear.
I think even after last nights disappointment we are entering an even more exiting era, where massive games like last night will be the norm.
 

Opera Bee

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Their plan was to stop us playing out from the back and creating chances, which meant more resources and effort channelled for pressing rather than trying to create their own chances. That's why he didn't play the league's top scorer from the outset. They knew they had to play differently from both league games. Parker learnt from those defeats..
This was a game of few chances that could have gone either way - save for one moment of both brilliance and a lack of concentration. Parker successfully set Fulham up to nullify the Brentford attacking prowess, but from about 80 minutes on it looked like Fulham were shot and there was only going to be one team to score from open play. You could spin it on it's head and say that we successfully soaked up their toothless pressure and then looked the better team once they had tired? They got nothing for their pressing, only that neither team created chances - no open-play mistakes at the back.

A set piece goal after 105 minutes doesn't have much to do with tactics, it was just a great piece of individual scouting which made the difference.
 

Frothybaby

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Yes - that's exactly what I am saying. Their plan was to stop us playing out from the back and creating chances, which meant more resources and effort channelled for pressing rather than trying to create their own chances. That's why he didn't play the league's top scorer from the outset. They knew they had to play differently from both league games. Parker learnt from those defeats.




But they clearly DID stop us playing. Not sure what you're trying to say here.
I felt they were predictable and slow with Mitrovich. Especially against us, as also demonstrated when they played WBA and Leeds. They mixed it up last night as they learned they were unpredictable without him and had a good winning record playing another system. I think we negated each other largely. If Mitrovich had started I believe we would have won. To have stopped us playing, to me, would have had us pinned inside our own half without chances or possession in Fulham's box. That's not the case. They were a team last night without Mitro. You seem to be talking in absolutes and I am not. We are disagreeing over minutiae.
 

Frothybaby

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I think that as TF reflects on what he could have been done better during the season, he will look back to those opening 11 games that yielded just 12 points. We should have started the season with Jansson and Pinnock as two central defenders; instead TF persisted with three central defenders even though the formation palpably wasn't working. During that period our midfield looked well short of what was required and we scored just nine goals. That has come back to bite us.
He learned from it. :)
 

mundee4england

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Thomas has done a fantastic job this season but also will have learned a lot. For me the main development is to ensure we have a plan b theme when sides negate our (usually superb) plan A.... but as we found out in the last few games we need to have a little more variety when required.
 

beetee

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Interesting to see what Thomas has planned to improve us next season.. Hes sorted the defensive side this, season and will know where we need to improve in other areas. Midfield 2 in front of Norgard need sorting imo unless a years experience does it.
 

jbee

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Interesting to see what Thomas has planned to improve us next season.. Hes sorted the defensive side this, season and will know where we need to improve in other areas. Midfield 2 in front of Norgard need sorting imo unless a years experience does it.
I think Baptiste could be very important next year.
 

IslandBee

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I bet the person who is being most critical of TF's performance this morning is TF. I imagine he will be going over in the coming days everything that has happened over the last few weeks looking to see what he might have done differently!

In the meantime, I am just massively grateful for the fantastic football he has served up to us all season; the club's best season in more than a generation; and for him being such a decent, intelligent and articulate representative of our club!
 

Oceanbee

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Have you watched any games this season? Sometimes we've changed 3 and 4 times during games, especially chasing points. There's B, C and D!
I agree we do change things, often within the same match.

The reality is that we play 23 other teams, all that have different styles, who in turn change things in a game.

So each match is different, depending on the opponent, so we need at least plans A to W, plus a plan X if none of the others are working!

However, we have a great club, a great owner, a great range of people working in the Club, a great Head Coach and team (whoever will pull on the shirt next season) and a great set of supporters.

At this sad moment, I’m positive about recognising all the good things we do have, rather than over focussing on the negatives.
 

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TF’s first full season in charge in the Championship and he gets us into the playoff final. I call that a great achievement. And the subsequent anticipation for next season should kick the black dog into row Z.
 

To Bee Someone

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We had no right to draw West Brom in like we did. Very few teams will go on a run like that in the Championship. And we did it in style.
The playoffs are a god awful lottery. I don't lay the blame at anyone's door especially TF. He will learn from this. The anguish will turn into delight. I truly believe that
 

ruislip bee

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At times it was like a dads v lads game.
Fulham were far more robust than us and we didn’t lay a glove on them really.
Yep that's exactly what I thought. We just couldn't get the ball. Their 7 - 2 booking rate also shows they were really committed. OK maybe the Reed one might have been a red and Mitro was just being an arshole. The rest were just being competitive.
 

Edmundo

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He's had 3 massive games and failed to win all 3 of them. It's collective responsibility of course but I do hope he goes away and reflects on what he could have done better.
That's a bit unfair as it completely ignores the massive game which we did win against Swansea.

I'm sure he will reflect on what could have been done better, but it's the fine margins that make the difference. If we'd beaten WBA away rather than drawing, we'd have made it over the line into second. A better start to the season would have seen us clinch the title. A good start to next season is the main requirement IMHO. Otherwise we're hoping for the play-offs and that doesn't seem like a good plan to me.
 
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Lots of fine margins I agree but we made one fundamental tactical change after our poor start in switching to 433 from 343 and that worked a treat.

We also switch in games to 3 at the back when we are chasing a late goal without much success.

Then there was the desperation late on at Stoke and also Barnsley when we shove on any attacking players we can, lose our shape and again, fail to pull the game out of the bag.

More and more teams Next season will press us high and Try to stop us playing out by smothering Us in our half.

We have to develop another way of getting out of defence. We either have to be braver and take even more chances in and around our area.

I’m hoping that Toney, if signed, with his aerial ability would allow us to go longer directly from the back and allow us to surround him with midfielders to pick up the second ball higher up the pitch.

Not sure what else to try.
 

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I agree with you in part. More teams will try and do to us what Stoke et al did. TF knows that. It takes time to react to changes. City fall foul of the same things we do. Liverpool will be undone and then all teams will follow suit. You have to rely on the quality of players. If you can pass around/through the high press, we will overcome. We can further up, so maybe we need the ball into the midfield quicker. What do I know? I have no idea. I recognise I am not a football tactician.

TF won't stick to something if it isn't working. We now have a couple of system changes the players know, and tactical tweaks. We can go long, and that has worked at times, especially when Raya was hitting Dalsgaard.

We will overcome, but how long it takes I have no idea. The obvious is long ball to big front man. But we don't want to watch that. We want to play through the press with quality and pace. Stick to what we are good at. We have done that a lot this season. We have had greater success against those that try and stop us, than any other time in this division. If we can get better at that, we will undo the press and the opposition soon become disheartened and tired.

Personnel makes a huge difference. I don't know if we overachieved this season, but I was very concerned when Maupay and Sawyers went and we looked to convert a winger and bed in two midfielders that hadn't played 12 games in over a year. It looked to me as though we were going to rely on attempting to stop the opposition scoring and get a goal now and then! Yet what a fabulous season it was for us. Tactics and brains don't tend to be the big money at this level, so fortunately we are not in the bottom 3-5 like we are with resources which have a £ attached. I rate TF in this and think as a club we will find a way.
 

grutter

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We have to develop another way of getting out of defence. We either have to be braver and take even more chances in and around our area.

I’m hoping that Toney, if signed, with his aerial ability would allow us to go longer directly from the back and allow us to surround him with midfielders to pick up the second ball higher up the pitch.

Not sure what else to try.
I suggested exactly that on here 2-3 weeks ago (using existing players, not Toney) and was poo-pooed for having no idea, by one or two. Even Liverpool and Man City have used the occasional long ball against the high press and look at the skiful ball players they have. It doesn't mean we are suddenly Wimbledon FC - it's all about having some variation, so the opposition don't know what to expect. I put up a long post yesterday about the need for a plan B. I'm not saying this is it, but the fact remains the opposition know how we are going to play. This makes it much easier for them to have a plan to combat it and we've seen how successfully a number of teams have managed this, which was magnified in the past few games. Trouble is, when we go long ball, it's largely pumped up to Watkins, who has 3 defenders close to him and no-one to lay it off to.
 

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What he needs is a CM that is very good at receiving the ball off the back four. When a high press is on us we need to be braver around our own box in the high pressure games.
 

Norfolk Bee

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Ideally players who have the technical, physical and tactical ability to switch play and some leadership on and off field to direct it.

I love baseball and watch highlights following the Minnesota Twins (they have made a great start to the shortened season.) The pitcher varies his delivery and the batter tries to figure it out or take a guess what's coming. If the pitcher kept the same delivery he wouldn't last long before being replaced.It's noticeable the Twins' pitching this year is a big improvement with some good additions. They have lost 2 games out of 11, one to the Cleveland Indians who had a young pitcher who on the night was unplayable with fantastic variety and temperament. They scored zero runs,they hardly hit anything which also speaks volumes as last year the Twins broke the record for most home runs.

Sorry to go on a bit but the baseball helps take my mind off the football!
 

kevalutonbee

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When a high press is on us we need to be braver around our own box in the high pressure games.
He might. I'm not sure I do. Whilst watching the Barnsley game I was convinced that at some point one of Raya, PJ and Ethan was going to get robbed annd whilst they didn't it seemed the pressers were getting closer and closer
 

jlove

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What he needs is a CM that is very good at receiving the ball off the back four. When a high press is on us we need to be braver around our own box in the high pressure games.
Usually, in that situation, Da Silva will drop back to the left of Nørgaard to give another option to receive, while Henry dishes not the opposition half.
 

jlove

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Almost need Ryan Woods back
I really don't think getting the ball out from the back is a problem for us. With Nørgaard and Da Silva, one's infinitely better defensively and the other more powerful attacking; Woods needs to be in a 4-2-3-1, which we haven't played for a couple of seasons.
 

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I like TF and as a poster said above this was his first full season and to finish 3rd in the 2nd tier of English football is one hell of an achievement. Equally one could tell his post match interview he was hurting as much as us fans. I for one on the whole believe he has had an excellent year and you can tell the players love playing for him. His man's management seems to be excellent.

But he also needs to reflect on the areas he can improve. There are some things over the course of the year I believe he got wrong.

- Too slow at the start of the year to change to a back 4, when we all couldn't work out playing 3 centre backs at home.
- His substitution at home against Bristol City when we were dominant and he reverted to a back 5.
- His reluctant to make any changes against Leeds at home until very late. TF was more worried not to lose then for us to go for it and win.
- Sticking to a core 12/13/14 players starting post the lockdown. I genuinely believe this cost us. Those players were knackered. Have faith in others.
- Go for it against Fulham in the last 20 minutes,. They were tiring and I couldn't see them scoring. Fulham seemed to have decided to play for extra time/ penalties. I'd rather we lost if we were actually going for it.

The above is not criticism but some selective feedback on areas I think he can improve upon.
 

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