Thomas Frank - Signs to June 2023

RAF_Patto

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I think you should take a look at Dalsgaard before pointing the finger at TF. He has been a weak link for a while now!
 

Beesfan

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Can't win can he? If we'd lost like that with our normal formation he'd have been accused of not having a plan B. Clearly we're short on midfield options with only 3 first teamers currently fit (one of whom had been out injured and another has been thrown in earlier than expected). Didn't work out but fair play for trying something different and being brave enough to change it when it wasn't working...
During the run in last season he played the same team over and over again, a number of games in a short amount of time didn't seem to matter. He did not need to try something different, especially something that has never worked when he’s tried it before. This team was picking up form, it was getting in its groove, trust the players and a formation that works for us. He over thought it today but I am sure he won’t make the same mistake again...
 

Mr Cynical

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During the run in last season he played the same team over and over again, a number of games in a short amount of time didn't seem to matter. He did not need to try something different, especially something that has never worked when he’s tried it before. This team was picking up form, it was getting in its groove, trust the players and a formation that works for us. He over thought it today but I am sure he won’t make the same mistake again...
yeh and look how that ended up, we were knackered when it came to the crunch. We did however rotate Jensen and Marcondes through most of that period.. Generally when we've played three in a week in a season we've struggled in the third game, particularly away from home. Was the same under Smith. TF will know which players are fit enough for 6 games in a couple of weeks and he clearly felt Jensen needed a break especially given it sounds like Marcondes and Baptiste aren't going to be back that soon. You can understand the thinking behind it even if it didn't work out as hoped..
 

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I get why he tried that...but it obviously didn't work. It does make me wonder how much faith he has in the covering defenders if he felt like a 3 at the back was the best way forwards.

I saw some calls from people saying that he should have gone to 3 at the back when Norgaard went off against Preston, and that maybe not doing so ended up hurting us. Today possibly showed that the formation change there may not have done much better in that case.

I would have definitely agreed with the 3 at the back formation if Vitaly hadn't played, but with him in front of the defence, that extra number didn't really help us. Hopefully we can get a decent result against Norwich on Tues, and Luton next weekend, and put this behind us. But it is slightly concerning that we already have three losses from the first seven games...
 

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I think you should take a look at Dalsgaard before pointing the finger at TF. He has been a weak link for a while now!
I don’t think TF sees it like that. I assume Henrik was Captain yesterday?
Doesn’t the absence of crowds allow Coaches some breathing space to experiment? Could try young Stevens out at RB in a real game, again. Maybe Fosu and Canos interchangeable up and down the wing?
I’m sure detailed analysis will point to a solution becoming apparent.
 

taxi driver

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I don't mind the changing of formation and making a mistake/getting it wrong per se. I do really object to the guessing and clueless end to games at the back end of last season. Yesterday appeared thought through given injury and the nature of our opponent. It was very poorly executed. Hopefully the players and TF learn from this and we can coach up a few. I'm sure we will be ok 👍
 

TorbayBee

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Constructive criticism for TF should be allowed. He got the substitution last year for Bristol City at home wrong when he went to a back 5 and when we conceded late on and again today. I am TF biggest fan but would have liked him to say in his post match interview he took responsibility for the loss. He didn't so lost a bit of respect for him. Admitting one's errors and everyone in what profession they are in makes mistakes but one should always own it.
Why do you want his personal public confession. For your benefit? For everyone’s benefit? Apportioning blame helps no one and ultimately he will be the one who carries the can no matter whose error causes an under performance. He admitted that the first half set up did not work and reacted.
 

Ealing Bee

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Apparently the military have a saying: "Never forget that the enemy has a vote in every battle."

And it's all very well analysing TF and his failings etc, without giving credit to the guy in the other dugout. This is now the second time Michael O'Neill has done a number on Thomas; more significantly, O'Neill changed his formation for Bees, after Stoke fans had been criticising 3 at the back etc.

More generally, we forget that as a 1st team coach, TF is still very much learning his trade. We don't expect a young player to know it all when he breaks through, so why do we have such expectations of a "young" manager?

Getting back to O'Neill, just because he's new to the Championship, we shouldn't dismiss his 7 years experience managing NI, where he came up against all sorts of opposition from Luxembourg or Malta, right up to Germany or Netherlands. Or to take another example closer to home, Dean Smith was a better manager by the time he left us than when he took over at GP, and he's better again now, two years later.

So unless Bees are going to "tear up the script" and splash out on a "name" manager like Bielsa, then we just have to accept that Thomas is still learning his trade, which means we will have off-days like yesterday, where the opposition manager outwitted him (just). But so long as the off-days become fewer and the on-days more frequent, then we'll still make progress.
 

Isleworth_Bee

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Can't win can he? If we'd lost like that with our normal formation he'd have been accused of not having a plan B. Clearly we're short on midfield options with only 3 first teamers currently fit (one of whom had been out injured and another has been thrown in earlier than expected). Didn't work out but fair play for trying something different and being brave enough to change it when it wasn't working...
Not for me, ive said it on the Sheff Wed predictions i want us to play our game, it worked that night.

Why on earth he changed it for a similar side is silly. He has to trust the squad players he has to fit our 4-3-3. Or whats the point in signing them. We have known from last season that the 3 at the back doesnt work and i dont want to see it again.

I can accept losing if we play to win from the off. That formation is negative and shows that he was more worried about what Stoke can do instead of what we can do to stoke.
 

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Lots of Harry Hindsight here as I didn't see many complaints prior to the match.

We were without PJ and CN today (and perhaps will be for a few matches to come). I suspect this was an attempt to compensate for that which didn't exactly work out well.

I suspect that if Jensen was named in the starting line-up where he failed to make an impression in last season's run-in then we would have had a reaction from fans.

So whilst I do think it was a failure, I'm not sure that you can say that we should never try some "experiments" from time to time.

At least TF was "brave enough" to change it at half-time and we now know that we can play our normal formation against Stoke types of team going forwards. Even if not all the key personnel are available.
That was his only option. To stick with what he had started with would of been suicide. We changed it, played our way and nearly nicked a point. if he trusted the squad from the off then we would have come away with a better result.
 

Wouldbee

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TF reaches 100 games with the best stats of any Bees manager at the same stage in the clubs history , gets us to our best finish in 73 years and some of you bitches are still complaining??? Are you actually Brentford fans?
 

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Not for me, ive said it on the Sheff Wed predictions i want us to play our game, it worked that night.

Why on earth he changed it for a similar side is silly. He has to trust the squad players he has to fit our 4-3-3. Or whats the point in signing them. We have known from last season that the 3 at the back doesnt work and i dont want to see it again.

I can accept losing if we play to win from the off. That formation is negative and shows that he was more worried about what Stoke can do instead of what we can do to stoke.
Whilst I don't want to see that formation again, I don't think he particularly picked it due to Stoke. I think he's worried that we only have 3 fit CMs and hoped it would be a way of resting one of them. It backfired but we are going to be reliant on the 3 fit CMs for 4 games over the next 14 days by the sounds of it.

Let's pray none of them get injured and after the next international break at least one of Marcondes or Baptiste is back fit.

I really think it's harsh in many ways to be too critical of Thomas for trying something he thought was ticking a few boxes but which sadly backfired.
 

Isleworth_Bee

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Whilst I don't want to see that formation again, I don't think he particularly picked it due to Stoke. I think he's worried that we only have 3 fit CMs and hoped it would be a way of resting one of them. It backfired but we are going to be reliant on the 3 fit CMs for 4 games over the next 14 days by the sounds of it.

Let's pray none of them get injured and after the next international break at least one of Marcondes or Baptiste is back fit.

I really think it's harsh in many ways to be too critical of Thomas for trying something he thought was ticking a few boxes but which sadly backfired.

Of course mate,, i understand the CM injury crisis so maybe being a bit too harsh on him. I love TF to bits but dont think he should be above criticism.

The league is there for the taking this year (again). I just dont want us to pass another opportunity up by making negative team selections.
 

Doovster

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Of course mate,, i understand the CM injury crisis so maybe being a bit too harsh on him. I love TF to bits but dont think he should be above criticism.

The league is there for the taking this year (again). I just dont want us to pass another opportunity up by making negative team selections.
I hope that the 3 CBs won't rear its head again and if we have to go with 2 Cms we opt for more of a 442 than 343.

I'm sure the lesson has been learnt 🤞🏻
 

AB

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I hope that the 3 CBs won't rear its head again and if we have to go with 2 Cms we opt for more of a 442 than 343.

I'm sure the lesson has been learnt 🤞🏻
I don’t think 3CBs is inherently a bad idea but it clearly didn’t work as a way of dealing with a depleted squad. It did also provide TF with the solidity needed to bounce back from the W1 D1 L8 he started his career as Bees head coach with.

As with any formation it depends on the players available. If we had a full squad available it might still be worthwhile - eg playing Dalsgaard, Jansson and Pinnock as the three with Henrik and Ethan given licence to play as Chris Wilder style overlapping CBs (this is largely how Henrik plays as a FB and at international level he’s comfortable tucking in to the CB position, this season we’ve seen Ethan carry the ball forward more and on occasion ending up wide left) and dispensing with FBs completely.

eg
Raya
Dalsgaard Jansson Pinnock
Mbeumo Norgaard JDS Ghoddos Henry
Toney Forss

That would be a much more attacking set up even than 433.
 

jlove

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I don’t think 3CBs is inherently a bad idea but it clearly didn’t work as a way of dealing with a depleted squad. It did also provide TF with the solidity needed to bounce back from the W1 D1 L8 he started his career as Bees head coach with.

As with any formation it depends on the players available. If we had a full squad available it might still be worthwhile - eg playing Dalsgaard, Jansson and Pinnock as the three with Henrik and Ethan given licence to play as Chris Wilder style overlapping CBs (this is largely how Henrik plays as a FB and at international level he’s comfortable tucking in to the CB position, this season we’ve seen Ethan carry the ball forward more and on occasion ending up wide left) and dispensing with FBs completely.

eg
Raya
Dalsgaard Jansson Pinnock
Mbeumo Norgaard JDS Ghoddos Henry
Toney Forss

That would be a much more attacking set up even than 433.
That's how we set up (almost) many times last season, with our 4-3-3 but with Henry actually in the midfield line to make it 3-4-3. Often we'd play Dasilva on the left, to cover for Rico being so far forward, in the first half, then he'd switch to the right, backing Mbeumo in the second.
 
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magicbees

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Of course mate,, i understand the CM injury crisis so maybe being a bit too harsh on him. I love TF to bits but dont think he should be above criticism.

The league is there for the taking this year (again). I just dont want us to pass another opportunity up by making negative team selections.
The league is there more than last season and we came third. I just dont think we spent the money in this window we needed in the areas where we are short, except for Toney.
 

liverbee

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What I liked about his post match summary is that he admitted the injury/form issue won’t necessarily be resolved by Tuesday and he is not happy about it. I’m glad it’s his job to fix it.
 

Bill Benn

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I hope that the 3 CBs won't rear its head again and if we have to go with 2 Cms we opt for more of a 442 than 343.

I'm sure the lesson has been learnt 🤞🏻
Would remind everyone that we have played 3 CBs before and one game springs to mind when we beat Aston Villa on Dean Smiths return and Thomas was hailed as a tactical genius.Some fans have short memories.
Konsa Jeanvier Barbet
 

HaylingBee74

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I don’t think TF sees it like that. I assume Henrik was Captain yesterday?
Doesn’t the absence of crowds allow Coaches some breathing space to experiment? Could try young Stevens out at RB in a real game, again. Maybe Fosu and Canos interchangeable up and down the wing?
I’m sure detailed analysis will point to a solution becoming apparent.
I had to check who our Captain was after the game, with HD struggling to play 3 games a week and being expected to have an advanced role. It is all too much.
I didnt see the Hendon game but wondered how Fin Stevens played, if he could get more than the 11 minutes he had against Fulham he could be our solution. My worry is that his inexperience and our current problem with who to play at Right CB means teams will try and focus on our weakness there.
A back 4 of Rico Pinnock HD Stevens would be worth trying, we just need a game where it could be tested. If it did work, then we have a defence that could be settled and balanced.
 

Bangor Bee

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Would remind everyone that we have played 3 CBs before and one game springs to mind when we beat Aston Villa on Dean Smiths return and Thomas was hailed as a tactical genius.Some fans have short memories.
Konsa Jeanvier Barbet
But there have been many more times when it hasn't worked. Most notably at the start of last season, when in my opinion we lost points by persevering with the system for too long when the midfield was obviously underpowered as a result. I hope we don't see it again, but I expect it will be back sooner or later.
 

grepo

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Many seem to underestimate the randomness in football, being such a low scoring game, and overreact when we do badly or become overconfident when we win. Coventry might have been luckier and scored instead of hitting the crossbar and then who knows whether we would have gone on to win, and Rico might have been more fortunate in controlling the ball at the end of the last game and scored, as I believe he did earlier last year against Stoke. Very fine margins and yet completely different reactions from supporters on here. Better to be a little experimental and try and tweak things at the start of the season. I'm confident that TF and the team will progress, as hoped, through the long season ahead.
 

Bill Benn

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But there have been many more times when it hasn't worked. Most notably at the start of last season, when in my opinion we lost points by persevering with the system for too long when the midfield was obviously underpowered as a result. I hope we don't see it again, but I expect it will be back sooner or later.
Why do you think it will be back again soon when we only have done it for 45 mins in the last 25 games
 

ruislip bee

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Would remind everyone that we have played 3 CBs before and one game springs to mind when we beat Aston Villa on Dean Smiths return and Thomas was hailed as a tactical genius.Some fans have short memories.
Konsa Jeanvier Barbet
Yep and Canos played wing back very well iirc.
 

Mr Cynical

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But there have been many more times when it hasn't worked. Most notably at the start of last season, when in my opinion we lost points by persevering with the system for too long when the midfield was obviously underpowered as a result. I hope we don't see it again, but I expect it will be back sooner or later.
but there were reasons for that as well.. Said was injured, Norgaard too, we didn't have the options to change until we did.. Equally a lot of the issues we had then were simply settling in a whole load of new players.. It was also a system that had had us on a great run at the end of the previous season and for a while had us dreaming of the play offs..
 
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Isleworth_Bee

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Got his subs wrong tonight. (unless theres injuries).

Subbing JDS was criminal. Was controlling the ball for us. Marcondes should of made way instead.
Fosu needs to be trusted and should have come on instead of canos.
Forss should have replaced Mbeumo.
 

A Real Mysteron

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JDS, unless he had a knock, should have stayed on. He was dominant in midfield.
TF has arguably cost us points in the last 2 games.
 

GuyBee

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Got his subs wrong tonight. (unless theres injuries).

Subbing JDS was criminal. Was controlling the ball for us. Marcondes should of made way instead.
Fosu needs to be trusted and should have come on instead of canos.
Forss should have replaced Mbeumo.
I agree with JDS being a bad sub. But taking Tony off was right, he was knackered. A a good Canos was exactly what we needed. Unfortunately that is not what we got.
 

Isleworth_Bee

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I agree with JDS being a bad sub. But taking Tony off was right, he was knackered. A a good Canos was exactly what we needed. Unfortunately that is not what we got.
But when we got the ball into IT we did bits. Mbeumo gave it away and slowed us down. Forss did as much as a knacked Toney.
 

Beesfan

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I agree with JDS being a bad sub. But taking Tony off was right, he was knackered. A a good Canos was exactly what we needed. Unfortunately that is not what we got.
It was the 82nd minute I am sure Toney was knackered but he would have got through the remaining 10 minutes its what he trains for everyday. Canos has not been good for a very long time, a couple of weeks ago Fosu was defensively superb against Fulham....give him a go to maintain the 1 nil lead...
 

Nada Bee

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he took us to arguably one kick from the PL last season. Had our best ever player taken away and replaced with someone who needs a few more games to settle in, plus injuries. I’ll give him a little more time to get it right. 20 games or so will see. No need for any TF out nonsense at all.
 

Voice from the Braemar

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he took us to arguably one kick from the PL last season. Had our best ever player taken away and replaced with someone who needs a few more games to settle in, plus injuries. I’ll give him a little more time to get it right. 20 games or so will see. No need for any TF out nonsense at all.
No one on here has said TF out though ? But he really needs to stop making these weird subs and costing us points with bizarre decisions....that’s down to him to sort out
 

mhead bee

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I think you should take a look at Dalsgaard before pointing the finger at TF. He has been a weak link for a while now!
HD doesn't pick the team or the tactics, if he is the weak link it is the managers fault for playing him.

However he isn't, he can be a bit shoddy sometimes but he isn't that bad.

I love TF but FFS Frank sort it out. We keep doing this, going through bad runs of form eveery year that ultimately cost us and always seem to come down to team selections and tactics. 80% of the time it is all brilliant, but 20% of the time we mess it up by doing stupid unecessary things. Happens every bloody year,.

I am not calling for his head, the complete opposite, I just want him to stick to being good and stop messing about and losing us unnecessary games every year. You are better than that Tom.
 

mhead bee

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A a good Canos was exactly what we needed. Unfortunately that is not what we got.
That is the problem, when you bring on Forss, Halil (last season), Fosu or Janelt you pretty much know what you are getting, its on the sidfe of the tin, however with sergi you are hoping for the 1 in 10 great game or the 1 in 5 average game and the odds are you will get neither most of the time. With the quality we have had at Brentford in the last 7 years the days of lobbing someone on with lots of heart and hoping something might come off for him should have long gone.
 
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It isa no use blaming him. He is trying to get us through three games a week until Christmas with a squad of about 19 mostly in the red zone if they are not already injured. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't in terms of substitutions.

JDS has played the last three games and had to have a rest.In retrospect Fosu would have been a better option than Canos.
 

shouldbee

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Has he decided not to do pre- match press conferences now ?
 

jlove

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Has he decided not to do pre- match press conferences now ?
It seems the post-match interviews are doubling-up as pre-match for the following one, although that may be only if it is away.
 

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