Thomas Frank - Signs to June 2023

Voice from the Braemar

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Any posters on here questioning TF are totally out of order, yes we are not functioning properly at the moment, and we should be playing better. We are only 5 pts off the play offs and 7 pts from top, not a disaster. Get at least 4 points from the next couple of games and the doom merchants will say TF is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I am sure that 1 or 2 additions will arrive in the January window and we will push on in the new year, have some faith in the management team.
Wow....totally over exaggerated response alert!!! This is a football forum about opinions....or should we just ignore our recent form and performances and pretend all is great at LR when it clearly isn’t ?
 

Doovster

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Wow....totally over exaggerated response alert!!! This is a football forum about opinions....or should we just ignore our recent form and performances and pretend all is great at LR when it clearly isn’t ?
I agree mate. Performance levels have been very poor the last couple of games.

I'm nowhere near close to calling for Thomas's head but I think it's too easy to blame all our short comings on the loss of Norgaard. Thomas needs to find solutions to our current problems, he would do well to go back to basics and play Janelt in the position he signed for, being cover for Norgaard, and play Fosu or Ghoddos ahead of Sergi, as neither can be worse.

I remember how well we played at Sheffield Wednesday with Ghoddos wide left, and Janelt in DM.
 

Bridge Bee

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You don’t sack a manager who has only 3 defeats in 16 this season and gets you to the league cup quarter finals by dumping out 3 PL teams in the way. The Norgaard injury has been our problem this season.
I’m not sure that’s right Simon.

CN certainly gets in our team if fit. And it will be great to see him back. But with him out of the team our goals against have been ok....nil yesterday, nil vs Luton, nil vs Boro, 1 vs Norwich, Sheffield Weds and Swansea. Bar Stoke it doesn’t feel like we’ve been defensively poor.

Surely our struggles are retention of the ball in the final 3rd, good decision making in these areas and creating chances? I’m not sure CN plays much of a role in this, does he? Him coming back in to the team pushes Jensen further forwards....a Jensen who has scored once since arriving at the club. Or maybe it pushes Marcondes further forwards.....a Marcondes that has never cemented a place in the team since his arrival. Or maybe it gets the ball to Canos.....a Canos who is bang out of form as well documented.

Having CN back will be welcome, but it won’t cover up the shortcomings of team mates who need to do better.
 

IslandBee

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Brentford are all about performance levels and underlying stats, as opposed to results.

Many clubs would've sacked Thomas when he first took over from Smith and again following our very slow start last season. They didn't because the underlying performance was OK.

We now have a situation where the performance levels have deteriorated in the last 3 games or so, and whilst unbeaten in those games, the poor performance levels will not have gone unnoticed with the club's hierarchy.

Thomas will be well aware performances need to improve significantly in the next few games, or else he will be under pressure, obviously it works both ways and he knows this.
Perhaps, but I doubt whether the club's hierarchy even begins to look at the trend in such stats before it has reached ten games or more. Three games of bad performances are pretty meaningless in the context of TF's overall period in charge.
 

IslandBee

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I think the main problem TF faces is that we don’t have a coherent and consistent midfield. Norgaard is key to this as he provides both the screen to defence that allows both Henry and Dalsgaard to go forward in wide areas, and the link to the forward players.

Jensen can do either of those roles but not both at the same time. So without Norgaard the other two midfielders have a lot to do to pick the ball up and are generally having to do it much closer to our goal than the opposition’s. It also means we’re easier to press and the full backs stay back, which is why JDS is having to do more out wide in the places where normally CN would be choosing between Rico and Henrik before stepping forward. That in turn isolates the third midfielder who is forced to drop back and the wingers who have to come back if we want to do our usual short passing up the pitch. But then they have no outlet because the scope for overlapping runs by Rico and Henrik has gone. Which is why we end up doing long cross field balls to the wingers. As they themselves are isolated they’re often on a hiding to nothing.

This makes both Canos and Mbeumo look worse than they are because to do otherwise would require both to make perfect pinpoint crosses every time without the option of a shorter pass to a doubling up full back. If either were a magician on the ball like Said or Jota were that would be less of an issue but in reality a good team ought not to be relying on outrageous skill but profiting from the fear of it in opponents on top of doing more prosaic things. Wycombe’s fast wide players are objectively far worse than ours but were given the room in a much simpler set up to look much more effective.

In the current context I don’t think Said himself would get a lot of joy and like Bryan would be seen coming much deeper to win the ball rather than being where he was dangerous. So merely upgrading Sergi (or setting Fosu up to fail for the same reasons) is not the answer even if he has been very disappointing.

As I see it the only two options for TF are to accept that we’re going to have to bear this structural weakness until CN returns and hope Sergi plays himself into form in the meanwhile as we stay hard to beat but limited to feeding Toney scraps. Or to commit to Janelt having to take CN’s role and grow into it over the coming month or so, keeping JDS away from the wings and risking more defeats but when VJ plays well, looking more like the team we’d got used to.
Interesting analysis but why not do what you say on VJ, let JDS drift to the left flank with another body (Ghoddas or Marcondes) coming into the midfield with VJ and Jensen? I take your points on Sergi but is there any sign at all of him playing himself into form?
 

TadB

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My take of it is that maybe the club should get in an additional coach who has has not been promoted from within the club . It has all become a little insular within the club and could do with a bit more thinking outside the box .
Liverpool used to do OK with ex "Boot Room" members
 

TadB

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He doesn’t know his best lineup from one week to the next. He doesn’t know how to make the most of the personnel on the bench to change games.

Injuries and fitness during this unique season have played a role in that. But there is no doubt it is causing disjointed performances. Ultimately Frank shoulders some responsibility for that.

However, to his credit we have only actually lost 3 from 12 so far and remain in the top half. We probably don’t have the squad this season to obtain a spot in the automatic promotion places, but keep in touch with 6th place until Christmas and we might strengthen in January, then who knows?
Thomas Frank? We all know the best squad because we do not have enough first team members available to even fill the Bench. We have known injured players. and many others will be carrying minor knocks. Give the Bloke a break he will be as frustrated as you are.
 

BFC1997

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Thomas Frank? We all know the best squad because we do not have enough first team members available to even fill the Bench. We have known injured players. and many others will be carrying minor knocks. Give the Bloke a break he will be as frustrated as you are.
Did you actually read my entire post?
 

beebopalula

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Did he not say exactly that, that we didn’t have enough flair or creativity?

Roughly translated, his post match interview was basically that we miss Benrahma
I've said it before that basically most teams in this league are on a par. What makes a difference is an outlet which can put teams under pressure and do something different. We had that with Said but he's gone. The Swansea game summed it up. They had Ayew as a superb outlet and that will give them an edge this year.
IMO our best chance of success is solid defending and grinding out results.Sad but that's what success will require. If we want to be entertained forget about top 6.
 

Isleworth_Bee

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I agree mate. Performance levels have been very poor the last couple of games.

I'm nowhere near close to calling for Thomas's head but I think it's too easy to blame all our short comings on the loss of Norgaard. Thomas needs to find solutions to our current problems, he would do well to go back to basics and play Janelt in the position he signed for, being cover for Norgaard, and play Fosu or Ghoddos ahead of Sergi, as neither can be worse.

I remember how well we played at Sheffield Wednesday with Ghoddos wide left, and Janelt in DM.
:imwith:

Cant agree more Doovster. Since the Sheff Wed win we have gone backwards with an unsettled starting 11. Ive defended Canos but the poor lad needs pulling from the starting 11.

Im not calling for his head but TF needs to wake up and earn his money. Our poor form isnt down to one missing player. If it is it shows how **** our squad is if they cant cope with the loss of one holding midfielder.

Some of the players need to take responsibility as well.
 

Freebee

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TF is a head coach not a manager and as such he has to work each season with a squad he is given.
We know he has some say on who we bring in but not the final say and with a mixture of injuries and people off form,he can only work with what he has.
I'm sure if he'd had the choice he wouldn't have sold our best 2 players.

Toney is a great goalscorer but he isn't the complete player that ollie was and Said just hasn't been replaced though it remains to be seen if Ghoddos can step up once fully fit.

Last season he had a great squad and no where near as many injuries and as a result he almost got auto promotion and then imho was let down by the players who just didn't look up for it in the PO final.
 

Guildford Bee

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TF is a head coach not a manager and as such he has to work each season with a squad he is given.
We know he has some say on who we bring in but not the final say and with a mixture of injuries and people off form,he can only work with what he has.
I'm sure if he'd had the choice he wouldn't have sold our best 2 players.

Toney is a great goalscorer but he isn't the complete player that ollie was and Said just hasn't been replaced though it remains to be seen if Ghoddos can step up once fully fit.

Last season he had a great squad and no where near as many injuries and as a result he almost got auto promotion and then imho was let down by the players who just didn't look up for it in the PO final.
In some respects last season was similar to 14/15. We caught lightning in a bottle in terms of the squad and had very few significant injuries. It was almost enough to get us over the line but not quite.

This is a proper test of TF’s mettle now
 

Mr Cynical

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Feels like maybe Frank has overcompensated for the loss of Norgaard and that dreadful second half v against Preston. We seem to be very much safety first at the moment. Sitting deep with two midfielders in front of the back four and that's had a huge effect on our attacking performance. I think 3 games ago Frank would have been happy, we weren't playing that well but we were still creating a lot of good chances and restricting big chances at the back. The attacking stats though for the last few games will definitely be a cause for concern. The boro game you could probably excuse because that's what Warnock sides do but Saturday must be a big worry (and it showed as he lost his rag at the end of the game). We need to get our intensity back, the pressing in packs, the high line and high tempo passing. Easy to say but much harder to achieve when confidence is low..
 

Isleworth_Bee

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Feels like maybe Frank has overcompensated for the loss of Norgaard and that dreadful second half v against Preston. We seem to be very much safety first at the moment. Sitting deep with two midfielders in front of the back four and that's had a huge effect on our attacking performance. I think 3 games ago Frank would have been happy, we weren't playing that well but we were still creating a lot of good chances and restricting big chances at the back. The attacking stats though for the last few games will definitely be a cause for concern. The boro game you could probably excuse because that's what Warnock sides do but Saturday must be a big worry (and it showed as he lost his rag at the end of the game). We need to get our intensity back, the pressing in packs, the high line and high tempo passing. Easy to say but much harder to achieve when confidence is low..
We havent pressed high all season. for some reason TF has us sitting deeper. You see it as soon as we lose the ball the whole midfield steps off.
 

rebus

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My take of it is that maybe the club should get in an additional coach who has has not been promoted from within the club . It has all become a little insular within the club and could do with a bit more thinking outside the box .
Yes, we are probably the least forward thinking club in the country. FFS! I can barely believe what is written on this forum at times.
 

The Joker

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The frank out camp is growing by the look of it - I'm edging that way myself - it's all a bit stale at the moment and he had his big moment - and failed the test
I know you're not calling for TF to be sacked just yet Aussie Bee. But this 'must win now' attitude from football fans in general is everything that's wrong with our game today.

We're a quarter of the way through the season, five points off the playoffs and having a dip.

Plenty of smart replies on here since you posted, but the consensus seems to be let's get through until a) Norgaard returns and b) we can do some business in January and then re-assess.

In the real world, we all have dips in the workplace from time to time.

It just so happens this seems to be happening amongst management and playing staff at BFC right now. They deserve (much) longer to out things right.
 

wanderer paul

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I think this match surprised everyone watching it on TV!!

Weird subs. But it worked! lol
 

The Pipe

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Very good post match interview points out that this season beyond any other results are more important than performance. An honest interview and was in great contrast to that from Warburton
 

Invipai

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Agreed. I'm glad for him that it worked out tonight. He's done very well, but two losses and certain sets of social media are calling for him to go. He knows what he's doing a hell of a lot more than they do...

In the top 6, though obviously have played a game more. Given that we're no where near first gear yet, we're keeping pace and that can only be a good thing.
 

Ruislip_Rich

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Very good post match interview points out that this season beyond any other results are more important than performance. An honest interview and was in great contrast to that from Warburton
Crazy interview from Warburton. Came across as a bitter twisted little man.
Needs to do plan A better in his next interview.
 

Les Beeavinu

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Agreed. I'm glad for him that it worked out tonight. He's done very well, but two losses and certain sets of social media are calling for him to go. He knows what he's doing a hell of a lot more than they do...

In the top 6, though obviously have played a game more. Given that we're no where near first gear yet, we're keeping pace and that can only be a good thing.
Isn't it just about a dozen ****ers?
 

badgerbee

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Recognised where our problems were, and reacted superbly to the different challenges posed by the opposition over the last couple games.
Made some brave in-game decisions that turned the course of both games.
Plus leads the way in terms of points won across all 4 divisions in 2020. :bounce:
I'm sure there'll still be the #Frankout idiots around though..........:rolleyes:
 

nathanbee

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Recognised where our problems were, and reacted superbly to the different challenges posed by the opposition over the last couple games.
Made some brave in-game decisions that turned the course of both games.
Plus leads the way in terms of points won across all 4 divisions in 2020. :bounce:
I'm sure there'll still be the #Frankout idiots around though..........:rolleyes:
Not on our best form yet and still right up there.
We are always only one defeat away from those people and the "didn't replace Ollie & Said, Benham keeping the money" lot, becoming vocal again. So strap yourselves in for what will undoubtedly be a bump ride for Frank, the DoF's and Benham over the rest of the season.
 

liverbee

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I'm impressed with the way he's adapted to the injuries and five subs rule, as well as extracting points we might have dropped over recent seasons. I don't think he's dropped the fast moving passing game, just puts it on the back burner when necessary.
 

upnorthbee

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I think we got found out last season a bit. Press us high and subdue the football and we didn’t have a clue. I think we’re seeing a different side of Brentford this season, and a lot of credit has to go to TF and his coaching team. Even if we had Ollie and Said again this season, who’s to say we would have done as well? Toney and Janelt have been brought in to accommodate a “plan B”, and it’s working.
 

A Real Mysteron

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Plan b now seems to be plan a.
Which is fine by me.
It’s a bit tedious being the media darling red and white Brazil, but always the bridesmaid, never the bride.
 

Delbee

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I'm impressed with the way he's adapted to the injuries and five subs rule, as well as extracting points we might have dropped over recent seasons. I don't think he's dropped the fast moving passing game, just puts it on the back burner when necessary.
I think he likes the 5 sub rule as it gives him options to really change the way we play . As with the 3 subs you change an injured player and a play a bit of his game . Then you have to keep one back till very late in case of an injury
 

BlueJayBee

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Not on our best form yet and still right up there.
We are always only one defeat away from those people and the "didn't replace Ollie & Said, Benham keeping the money" lot, becoming vocal again. So strap yourselves in for what will undoubtedly be a bump ride for Frank, the DoF's and Benham over the rest of the season.
Very true. Aren't they also known as the Flat Earth Society?
 

Griffingreen

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Another quote after last nights game from TF, love the way he keeps things simple and real,

"We are confident, but we are humble because we know the task ahead of us is massive. :cool:
 

Voice from the Braemar

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Most points of any manager all 4 divisions in 2020 i believe.

Frank out :LOL:
If we can actually get out of the habit of blowing the big games we could actually win this league at a canter unbelievabley....I can’t see why we shouldn’t ;) there’s nothing in this league to fear and maybe a signing or two in jan will cement it....I’d be very surprised if we aren’t top 2 in May :)
 

IslandBee

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Recognised where our problems were, and reacted superbly to the different challenges posed by the opposition over the last couple games.
Made some brave in-game decisions that turned the course of both games.
Plus leads the way in terms of points won across all 4 divisions in 2020. :bounce:
I'm sure there'll still be the #Frankout idiots around though..........:rolleyes:
Yep, any manager of ours, it seems, is only ever a couple of bad performances away from this particular form of madness!
 

IslandBee

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Plan b now seems to be plan a.
Which is fine by me.
It’s a bit tedious being the media darling red and white Brazil, but always the bridesmaid, never the bride.
I don't think it has, but we definitely went plan b (ie more direct) second half last night with good results. In most other games, I think we were still generally trying our normal style but weren't succeeding as much as last year, except against Luton and Sheff Weds
 

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