Too Many Away Fans in Home GA Areas (split thread)

[YouReds123]

Wow, this one has grown since last night! I think that so much depends on the behaviour of the people in the seats. As an example, I am unable to go to the Wolves game on Saturday, but a good pal of mine is a Wolves fan, so i have upgraded my ST via the club (I am 'senior', he is visibly not), and he will go in my place. He is a sensible bloke, knows the drill, will applaud politely when we score, and should the unthinkable happen and Wolves get one, he will sit on his hands and look suitably dejected.

The problem seems to be that the away fans in home seats behave like d*ckheads. Certainly, something needs to be done about tickets just being randomly pushed out to all and sundry.

Wrong. The problem is away fans are in home seats. That's it. It doesn't matter how they behave

 

[rebus]

I can see and have seen how it can cause but if a well behaved opposition fan can only get a ticket in a home section I don't believe it's a big problem. When away tickets are limited what choice do you have. My mates son got West Ham tickets for the away game and had a great time just had to smirk rather than go mental when we got the winner

Their ground holds 60,000. That’s one difference.

 

[BeeReal]

Wrong. The problem is away fans are in home seats. That's it. It doesn't matter how they behave

Agreed. Even if they are well behaved and 'sit on their hands' then that is one fewer who is getting behind the team and creating an intimidating atmosphere for the opposition.

 

[Simon W]

 

[Raise The Roof]

The club "consult" rather than "jointly plan". However if every single Bees fan was a member of BIAS then they'd have a lot more clout when it comes to having their feedback heard at the consultations.

In answer to you and Rebus, I can understand the Club merely consulting last year - as they faced huge risks in mobilising a new stadium, including selling enough STs, all the while not knowing what league we would be in. But aren’t we in a different place now, and isn’t keeping the (legacy) fan base happy more of a priority, now some of these huge risks have subsided somewhat.
So, should we not be seeking a planning forum so that future Membership schemes are more “Co-designed” than this years one was.

The other thing, forgive me I don’t understand, is the link between BU and BIAS in terms of their respective roles in applying fan pressure. BU has a very formal role, with a Board Rep, and is also a form of club banker/financier. BIAS is the recognised supporters group. They seem to have similar aims (as below), but how does they work together in practice? eg could BU Board Rep table a motion for debate (or a paper) at Board on a particular matter such as the shape of a future Membership Scheme.

Bees United - The Brentford u0003FC Supporters Trust At a time when football supporters often feel clubs are out of touch with their fans, we have a unique role in ensuring that Brentford remains a club which we- the fans- can call our own. Bees United is the only fan group in the Premier League with a seat on the main board of its club.

Brentford independent Association of Supporters - We are a fully democratic, inclusive and independent supporter’s group that aims to give a voice to all Brentford Football fans.

 

[Bubbss6]

17,000 memberships.

My daughter has a membership just over 1k taps now …. I struggle to get her a ticket because of her age (10) and as. ST Holder myself … getting her a ticket in same stand and as close to me as possible ….
yet away supporters/tourists get tickets left right and centre …. Doesn’t seem right

 

[Banana]

The other thing, forgive me I don’t understand, is the link between BU and BIAS in terms of their respective roles in applying fan pressure. BU has a very formal role, with a Board Rep, and is also a form of club banker/financier. BIAS is the recognised supporters group. They seem to have similar aims (as below), but how does they work together in practice? eg could BU Board Rep table a motion for debate (or a paper) at Board on a particular matter such as the shape of a future Membership Scheme.

Bees United - The Brentford u0003FC Supporters Trust At a time when football supporters often feel clubs are out of touch with their fans, we have a unique role in ensuring that Brentford remains a club which we- the fans- can call our own. Bees United is the only fan group in the Premier League with a seat on the main board of its club.

Brentford independent Association of Supporters - We are a fully democratic, inclusive and independent supporter’s group that aims to give a voice to all Brentford Football fans.

BU is the Trust. They hold the Golden Share and have lent the club over £1m of fans money. They also have a seat on the BFC board. Having a seat on the BFC board is tricky as it comes with collective responsibility. You can't have a director of the club being a rebel-rouser over ticketing or away fans etc. However, you can have a director of the club having the role of ensuring that the club CEO and staff fully engage and take account of the views of the largest Fans Group....BIAS

BIAS is the original supporters pressure group. It also created BU and, until recently, most BU board members had also previously served on the BIAS Committee. BIAS is the primary organisation that the club engages with over supporters' issues (although BU has started to get involved on some issues (ticketing), which I am not sure is a good idea as there should be clear blue water in responsibility IMHO - I expect that this is because not many (any) BU directors served their time in BIAS).

That's it in a nutshell. All fans should be members of both for different reasons. Member of BIAS in order to give the primary voice of fans into the club as much clout as possible, and BU as if push comes to shove it is BU members that will determine how the Golden Share is utilised ( as well as to get their share of the £1m when it is paid back )

Both memberships are free and therefore well worth their value

 

[cheshirebee]

BU is the Trust. They hold the Golden Share and have lent the club over £1m of fans money. They also have a seat on the BFC board. Having a seat on the BFC board is tricky as it comes with collective responsibility. You can't have a director of the club being a rebel-rouser over ticketing or away fans etc. You can have a director of the club having the role of ensuring that the club board engages fully and takes account of the views of the largest Fans Group....BIAS

BIAS is the original supporters pressure group. It also created BU and, until recently, most BU board members had also previously served on the BIAS Committee. BIAS is the primary organisation that the club engages with over supporters' issues (although BU has started to get involved on some issues (ticketing), which I am not sure is a good idea as there should be clear blue water in responsibility IMHO).

That's it in a nutshell. All fans should be members of both for different reasons. Member of BIAS in order to give the primary voice of fans into the club as much clout as possible, and BU as if push comes to shove it is BU members that will determine how the Golden Share is utilised ( as well as to get their share of the £1m when it is paid back )

Both memberships are free and therefore well worth their value

A useful summary, thanks.
Just one thing, hasn’t the £1m been paid back. I seem to remember getting the money back for my loan note 4-5 years ago, or is that something else ?

 

[Banana]

A useful summary, thanks.
Just one thing, hasn’t the £1m been paid back. I seem to remember getting the money back for my loan note 4-5 years ago, or is that something else ?

No. It’s still there in the BFC and BU accounts. Most loan notes have been repaid. Some haven’t. But the substantial part of the outstanding loans to BFC were comprised of regular donations rather than loan notes

 

[Bubbss6]

This was always going to be the absolute worst game possible for this type of activity

For the record we had someone I don't recognise next to me tonight who almost certainly bought off the exchange as I know who is normally there and why he wasnt there tonight. He tried to clap at the right times and put up with the noise from me and the Jock behind me but didn't return for the second half

That’s the point you only need a membership to get from the exchange …

 

[LingfieldBee]

I think it all needs to come back to TAPs but the only other 'ideas' that I would offer (and I doubt none of them are new) are:

- Introducing a lag (say, 4 weeks?) between becoming a member and being eligible to purchase tickets (either directly or via the exchange)
- Membership lapses if not used for a period (say, 6 months?)

The membership lapsing would be very useful.

 

[Stevehz]

Their ground holds 60,000. That’s one difference.

And United have at least 10 times as many fans of us so how hard must it be for them to source a ticket.

 

[Billy Hunt]

Haha who told you this Billy? I don't think it's true and i didn't see any at Old Trafford.

Saw it with my own eyes at a pub near Wembley
Community Shield 1-1 with Chelsea
Someone won on penalties

 

[aslan]

The membership lapsing would be very useful.

Would it make much of a difference? Membership has to be purchased every year, and if fans of opposition are only buying for the 1 time a year we play them..

 

[BEEcool]

Would it make much of a difference? Membership has to be purchased every year, and if fans of opposition are only buying for the 1 time a year we play them..

True. I think it'd only make a difference if there was a limit on the no. of memberships available (in which case there might be no problem anyway) and you'd end up bottom of the waiting list (if there was one) for another one if it lapsed.

 

[WestStandBee]

I’m just gonna sit in the West Stand from this day forward, last night was awful.

Does anybody know roughly when 22/23 ST’s are gonna start getting sold? And how exactly will they fulfill there pledge for every member to have a guaranteed chance to buy one.

 

[JCMcBee]

Saw it with my own eyes at a pub near Wembley
Community Shield 1-1 with Chelsea
Someone won on penalties

....I didn't see any song sheets mate from where I was last night in E115....just some very big men,not boys,very well presented,and disciplined,who had the air of those who have followed their team for many years home and away....very impressive turnout...they saw what happened when I called out a daft lad celebrating on our side of the fence....and they merely shrugged and smiled when he was led out by stewards....I shrugged back.

 

[Banana]

....I didn't see any song sheets mate from where I was last night in E115...

I doubt the hardest of the hard core need song sheets. They have 1,700 seats whereas normally they'd get 3,000 and that's from a stadium that hold 60,000 and membership of the entire world east of Turkey and west of Lands End.

 

[upnorthbee]

Saw it with my own eyes at a pub near Wembley
Community Shield 1-1 with Chelsea
Someone won on penalties

No song sheets here either bud. I think it's just a case of giving credit where it's due, their away fans are second to none.

Anyway, back to topic!

 

[JCMcBee]

I doubt the hardest of the hard core need song sheets. They have 1,700 seats whereas normally they'd get 3,000 and that's from a stadium that hold 60,000 and membership of the entire world east of Turkey and west of Lands End.

....the fellas in the away end were respectful....you know the sort...well heeled...they weren't the issue last night....oh and btw....the couple directly in from of us last night were ejected by stewards for filming the game on their phones....first time I've seen this happening.

 

[StevieSteve]

I’m just gonna sit in the West Stand from this day forward, last night was awful.

Does anybody know roughly when 22/23 ST’s are gonna start getting sold? And how exactly will they fulfill there pledge for every member to have a guaranteed chance to buy one.

You previously quoted the "pledge" as members having priority for new STs (if there are any) which sounds more likely.

And as it just means you/we have priority over non-members, it doesn't have a lot of value

 

[aslan]

I’m just gonna sit in the West Stand from this day forward, last night was awful.

Does anybody know roughly when 22/23 ST’s are gonna start getting sold? And how exactly will they fulfill there pledge for every member to have a guaranteed chance to buy one.

That wasn't ever pledged I'm afraid.
Very unlikely new STs will go on sale. Doesn't seem a great strategy in terms of "making/keeping new fans" or keeping old ones happy either. Benefits pockets and day trippers though

 

[Banana]

....the fellas in the away end were respectful....you know the sort...well heeled...they weren't the issue last night....oh and btw....the couple directly in from of us last night were ejected by stewards for filming the game on their phones....first time I've seen this happening.

You can't film that whole game! Did they bring "professional recording equipment"?

 

[BFC1997]

there pledge for every member to have a guaranteed chance to buy one.

I think you are mistaken.

 

[WestStandBee]

I think you are mistaken.

Must Be

 

[JCMcBee]

You can't film that whole game! Did they bring "professional recording equipment"?

....i phones.... seriously....check it out if you have access to such....end two pews....E115 row 12 seats ?381/2.

 

[hobbsy]

That wasn't ever pledged I'm afraid.
Very unlikely new STs will go on sale. Doesn't seem a great strategy in terms of "making/keeping new fans" or keeping old ones happy either. Benefits pockets and day trippers though

I'd be surprised if the total number of season tickets sold is increased. You will be relying in people not renewing.

 

[davido_i]

Wrong. The problem is away fans are in home seats. That's it. It doesn't matter how they behave

It matters massively how they behave.
It's not so long ago that due to a total mess by BFC, loads of Bees fans were forced to find a way to get tickets for the home end at Southampton in our biggest Cup game for years.
I remember looking with envy at the packed out, bouncing away end, whilst I tried manfully to sit on my hands & be respectful to the home support, especially since I had got 4 tickets through a good friend who knew an STH would couldn't attend.
I will never forget the scummy behaviour of the Southampton fans that day, pointing out every & any Bees fans to stewards to get them chucked out. I was lucky to be sat next to an old gent who was cool, even though he had me down as an away fan in no time.

I'd like to think we're better than that. So yes, with a sudden capacity increase, there will be some away fans in the home end.
If they are respectful and low profile, that's fine with me, but if they take the piss, out they go.

However, what's equally clear is that we need to address the current way that availability of tickets is prioritised.
We need to find means & ways to make sure that every ticket possible does go to Brentford fans.
The idea that there can be thousands of members with no history who can get direct access to tickets for big games, doesn't sit well with me.

There should be people working at Brentford FC for whom this issue should be their number one priority.
It would certainly be good if this topic would be acknowledged by the club as being in the centre of their radar, urgent & ideally with concrete plans as to how to address it.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Wow, this one has grown since last night! I think that so much depends on the behaviour of the people in the seats. As an example, I am unable to go to the Wolves game on Saturday, but a good pal of mine is a Wolves fan, so i have upgraded my ST via the club (I am 'senior', he is visibly not), and he will go in my place. He is a sensible bloke, knows the drill, will applaud politely when we score, and should the unthinkable happen and Wolves get one, he will sit on his hands and look suitably dejected.

The problem seems to be that the away fans in home seats behave like d*ckheads. Certainly, something needs to be done about tickets just being randomly pushed out to all and sundry.

Doesn’t sit well with me no matter how well they behave. Another seat taken from bees fans.

Hope they have a terrible afternoon. I’ve had multiple mates ask this year for tickets. Even when I couldn’t go it was always a no.

I know they are your mate but it’s part of the problem. Use the exchange and hope it goes to a proper fan who will get behind the team.

 

[WestStandBee]

That wasn't ever pledged I'm afraid.
Very unlikely new STs will go on sale. Doesn't seem a great strategy in terms of "making/keeping new fans" or keeping old ones happy either. Benefits pockets and day trippers though

Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m 90% sure that when buying my membership, they said members get priority access to next season’s ST’s.

I was out the country for years and only came back in September, didn’t know I was gonna be here this year, otherwise I would’ve got my ST, instead this season I get bandied about the stadium, miss half the matches, when I do manage to get a ticket no matter how small or big the match is, I get so happy, it’s certainly an experience for sure.

All in the name of this bs ticketing system, and they fact they’ve proven they don’t care about the fans when they decide to sell memberships and let people with ZERO Taps buy tickets to games like United.

 

[WestStandBee]

That wasn't ever pledged I'm afraid.
Very unlikely new STs will go on sale. Doesn't seem a great strategy in terms of "making/keeping new fans" or keeping old ones happy either. Benefits pockets and day trippers though

Check this picture out, I don’t know how they’re gonna manage that one. The thought of random day trippers in London getting a ST with 0 previous history at the ground makes me feel ill.

 

[longdistancebee]

Doesn’t sit well with me no matter how well they behave. Another seat taken from bees fans.

Hope they have a terrible afternoon. I’ve had multiple mates ask this year for tickets. Even when I couldn’t go it was always a no.

I know they are your mate but it’s part of the problem. Use the exchange and hope it goes to a proper fan who will get behind the team.

Well, judging from the above post and the number of Dislikes that I am getting, I am about as popular as...... as an away fan in the home end!! Ah well, can't please everybody.

 

[JCMcBee]

View attachment 29629

....I reckon he was at Telford...give him hell.

 

[ruislip bee]

I'll give the club huge credit for the way we were moved from ER to the West Stand including being super clear that people are likely to stand and that the section would likely be converted to safe standing. Within that was the WSA where a fan group was engaged to make a specific section rowdy as possible

I believe similar clarity for Braemar and New Roaders with regard to where to choose next was also well handled at the in person sales events

I would find it hard to see the club officially encouraging this, it's probably an example of a concrete step someone like @Indian Bee could do to funnel his anger towards concrete action

I noticed IB has stated on a number of occasions now that if it happens again he and his mates (mostly him though) are not going to take it anymore. I'm not disagreeing but wondered just what does he intend to do about it? He must have a plan.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Well, judging from the above post and the number of Dislikes that I am getting, I am about as popular as...... as an away fan in the home end!! Ah well, can't please everybody.

Bingo

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

I noticed IB has stated on a number of occasions now that if it happens again he and his mates (mostly him though) are not going to take it anymore. I'm not disagreeing but wondered just what does he intend to do about it? He must have a plan.

Not be btw chaps

 

[aslan]

Check this picture out, I don’t know how they’re gonna manage that one. The thought of random day trippers in London getting a ST with 0 previous history at the ground makes me feel ill.

We sold 11k STs. A few of that number will be exactly this

 

[Banana]

I noticed IB has stated on a number of occasions now that if it happens again he and his mates (mostly him though) are not going to take it anymore. I'm not disagreeing but wondered just what does he intend to do about it? He must have a plan.

He's gonna complain on the GPG

 

[BEE_FOR_LIFE]

.....the East is neutral....in all but name....that's the huge big Nellie in the room....BFC know it...and I guess those ITK do too....let's stop the pretence......come on BFC..... sell STs in E115/114 to those members on your books with TAPS over 500.....make the other sections neutral.....let those who frequent those sections build up their TAPS....or not.....if they are....as I suspect....away supporters/neutrals.

No thanks, 14 family members were there last night in E113, all season ticket holders, ages ranging from 13 to 86 with equivalent years of support for BFC, we all sang as much as anybody in the West Stand. I can assure you there are plenty of other like us in E113 as well. Get real, who are you to send us to other parts of the ground.

 

[Porgey]

The membership lapsing would be very useful.

Not if young'uns were included in the lapse scheme. My sons have a 2-yo "BaBees" membership and 4-yo "Bee Team" membership, but have never set foot in GP or BCS, and unlikely to for another couple of years yet (maybe a cup game for the older one next year if I'm brave).

Aside from early indoctrination (and the letter from Buzz & Buzzette and free socks/pencil/rubber etc), the only potential advantage of membership this season (and the real reason I got it) is if, in the future, there's any sort of membership history criteria added to help secure season ticket(s) in future years. (I do appreciate they have no inherent right to an ST over other fans, just because their forebears are ST-holders).

I guess another advantage we be to use their memberships to buy adult tickets for every match and flog them to away fans, but that's not something I've properly looked into yet..

Not wanting to go too off-topic, but (as has been mentioned by @Wise old Bee and @'Ayes B previously in this thread), securing STs for young family members is going to be increasing issue in the future, and possibly not solved until relegation.

 

[aslan]

I'd be surprised if the total number of season tickets sold is increased. You will be relying in people not renewing.

Yeah so they'll guarantee me a seat at day price, but not give me a season ticket, even though I had one in the days of 4k in the stadium.
Only difference "guaranteed seat" and a ST is twice the price and hassle of a sh*t ticket system.
Sweet

 

[Bee(h)Iver]

Check this picture out, I don’t know how they’re gonna manage that one. The thought of random day trippers in London getting a ST with 0 previous history at the ground makes me feel ill.

Members may have priority access but IF there are any extra STs on sale then I would have thought they would be sold in tranches in TAPS order. Or at least how many times they attended BCS this season. Hoepfully some combination of both.

Even there are any extra STs available, I wouldn't expect it to amount to more than 1,000, and even that would depend on how many people don't renew or are blacklisted as they have been caught selling their seats to touts.

 

[hobbsy]

Members may have priority access but IF there are any extra STs on sale then I would have thought they would be sold in tranches in TAPS order. Or at least how many times they attended BCS this season. Hoepfully some combination of both.

Even there are any extra STs available, I wouldn't expect it to amount to more than 1,000, and even that would depend on how many people don't renew or are blacklisted as they have been caught selling their seats to touts.

That's a conversation we need to have with the club. Which looks like it might be next week now.

 

[Bee(h)Iver]

Yeah so they'll guarantee me a seat at day price, but not give me a season ticket, even though I had one in the days of 4k in the stadium.
Only difference "guaranteed seat" and a ST is twice the price and hassle of a sh*t ticket system.
Sweet

I would hope TAPS and ticketing history would be taken into account for any new ST sales. Certainly hope BIAS would be pushing for this. @hobbsy ?

 

[JCMcBee]

No thanks, 14 family members were there last night in E113, all season ticket holders, ages ranging from 13 to 86 with equivalent years of support for BFC, we all sang as much as anybody in the West Stand. I can assure you there are plenty of other like us in E113 as well. Get real, who are you to send us to other parts of the ground.

....I genuinely had no idea there were ST holders in E113.....the ST experience in that section must be very different to that in the west,north and south.... interesting....be good to have your opinion of the East stand....I attend every home game as a member in E115....every bit as passionate as you sound....I don't have the authority to move you out of that section.... neither would I if I did.

 

[MrTumus91]

Yeah so they'll guarantee me a seat at day price, but not give me a season ticket, even though I had one in the days of 4k in the stadium.
Only difference "guaranteed seat" and a ST is twice the price and hassle of a sh*t ticket system.
Sweet

Have a day off mate you’re at every home game anyway you plonker

 

[Shamrock_Bee]

I bet it doesnt happen at most prem stadiums as their supporters turn up.
If it was to happen at other prem clubs, theyd be f***ed off put of it by stewards or home fans.

And as we only have a 17,000 capacity, it should be harder for away fans to get in.

Strangely, I didnt see any of what indian bee saw lastnight from my bit in the north stand but it has happened a few times this season. Chelsea I the QF of the league cup was outrageous. The north stand was so taken over by tourists, it ruined the whole night for me, it really put me off.

What disappointed me lastnight was the empty seats visible in east and south stand.

I know there are Brentford fans who dont have season tickets who should be taking up these seats.
As much as I want knew fans, theres definitely something with how we sell these tickets. Why isnt the TAP system being used for members too ?
I suppose the club are still looking to get rid of the TAP system ?

I reckon the club should cut back on how seats are held aside for membership sales, get more season ticket holders in.

And start punishing Brentford fans who sell their seats to away fans.
I've seen chelsea fans in the north stand premium seats, happy as Larry, decked out in chelsea gear !

In principle I agree with you but if we talk to other fans I think most would say there are issues in the home ends for Man Utd and Liverpool visiting especially amongst London clubs. Now if they openly celebrate or take videos is another issue.

As I said it's year one and I'm convinced there has been a lot of learning and things will be looked at. Whilst it might be too honest to ask it, would we have 14 or 15k season ticket holders who would consistently turn up every game bar one or two or would a lot more tickets end up on the exchange than even does now as ST holders pick and choose games to attend?

17k is a small stadium in comparsion to other PL clubs but we've just left a 12K stadium that wasn't consistenly sold out. The Brentford support and interest is certainly there and I'd like to see more season tickets sold next season but I don't think that will in itself completly solve the problems being discussed here.

 

[Delbee]

That's a conversation we need to have with the club. Which looks like it might be next week now.

I am thinking of changing my Dug Out Season ticket to the East Stand so as to be with one of my sons and 2 grandsons who are season ticket holders plus one extra season ticket for my daughter in law. Or move to a similar location

When you met with the club please can you raise this topic , ie Those Wanting To Change Season Tickets

 

[hobbsy]

I am thinking of changing my Dug Out Season ticket to the East Stand so as to be with one of my sons and 2 grandsons who are season ticket holders plus one extra season ticket for my daughter in law. Or move to a similar location

When you met with the club please can you raise this topic , ie Those Wanting To Change Season Tickets

Yes, we've already got that on the list

 

[aslan]

That's a conversation we need to have with the club. Which looks like it might be next week now.

"Our aim is to start the season ticket renewal process in February although this is yet to be finally confirmed, so you will receive some communication about this shortly"
Not a great deal of time, but please also stress the importance of the fact there is no difference, bar profit on the seat & extra stress of ticket system, between a guaranteed seat and a season ticket for someone who is going every game.

Have said the same to JV, SS & copied BIAS in