The edge of his shirt sleeve I think, as per the latest in a string of rule changes. It's laughable.
Video Assistant Referees
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ladbroke
Well-known member
Issue I think becomes when officials just flag for the sake of flagging just in case the VAR can't see it and they don't want to get it wrong and for it to result in a goal.I'll be honest, I'm struggling to get my head around that one myself
In law, if that's a penalty then it's a red card, even if accidental. Incredibly harsh but that's how it is
Theres a video sky did with Anthony Taylor last season explaining how they do it:
That's the idea I've been saying when we have a VAR debate down our local.. I didn't realise the Dutch actually did it. It makes complete sense to me that way, just like in cricket where there's a built in bit of latency for an "umpires call".
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
How do you know? Was the frame taken at the exact millisecond the ball left the players foot? If that was ever so slightly out, then he may have been onside by millimetres. You have to have a margin of doubt when you refer to technology imo.
Mr Tree
Brentford's premier GIF creator
I thought there was this double jeopardy thing now, where you didn't want the crime to be punishable by "penalty + red card", so it had to be really deliberate / cynical to get the double punishment. or was that just last year? i don't pay attention much to be honest...In law, if that's a penalty then it's a red card, even if accidental. Incredibly harsh but that's how it is
they're taught how to win free kicks these days. you see players do it all the time, all over the pitch, just to break play up, relieve pressure, etc. it's not the same at the professional level
Themepark
Law 5
That was most likely the intention when it came in, but unfortunately the wording groups accidental trip in the red category
I genuinely think everyone on the Old Trafford pitch would've forgotten about it within 15 seconds and said nothing more about it if VAR hadn't been in operation last night. And so the debate rages on..
wanderer paul
https://brentfordfcmemorabilia.wordpress.com/
That law basically gives the defending player the right to take out a forward and just receive a yellow card. Yet a player not attempting to play the ball and, in fact, attempting to get out of the way of the player, is given a red card.
As with the ridiculous offside law - that has now changed after the Villa & Man City debacle - the laws need to change asap.
IFAB has been shown up several times now this season alone. Handball, offside, red & yellow cards when awarding a penalty.
VAR has completely lost the plot and what it was meant to be used for.
It needs to be looked at ASAP and its use in the game here stopped until the law makers give proper guidance and how and when it is to be implemented. It’s not helping the refs, the players or the game.
As with the ridiculous offside law - that has now changed after the Villa & Man City debacle - the laws need to change asap.
IFAB has been shown up several times now this season alone. Handball, offside, red & yellow cards when awarding a penalty.
VAR has completely lost the plot and what it was meant to be used for.
It needs to be looked at ASAP and its use in the game here stopped until the law makers give proper guidance and how and when it is to be implemented. It’s not helping the refs, the players or the game.
Saints don't want Dean & Mason at games can clubs say no to having certain referees?! I assume weve made the same request with stroud
ladbroke
Well-known member
I don't believe you can but the leagues do look at recent events and try to keep referees away from potential drama and conflicts so you'll not likely see them again at Southampton before April.Saints don't want Dean & Mason at games can clubs say no to having certain referees?! I assume weve made the same request with stroud
But reading the article, that's a strange combination coupled with strange events in the games recently.
Mason in middle of the game where Cash was not penalised with Mike Dean VAR. It was Dean that basically said no to the penalty and did not refer Mason to the screen so the penalty not given.
This time, it's Dean in the middle and Mason on the sideline. Dean, again, gives many decisions against Southampton with Mason seemingly backing him from the sideline (you'd hoped he would be on the same side even if he disagrees).
I've never liked him as a referee, topped by his crap show against Tottenham for us. He is the Zlatan Ibrahimovich, the Cristiano Ronaldo, of the refere world. It's all about him.
Themepark
Law 5
They've done this for a few years anyway. Every decision from the officials at the top levels are graded and marked.
wanderer paul
https://brentfordfcmemorabilia.wordpress.com/
So, Bednarak’s red card has been rescinded. Do the EPL now take a goal off too, so 8-0 instead of 9-0? As the penalty shouldn’t have been awarded either. As a foul wasn’t committed. If it was, then the red card couldn’t have been rescinded, due to the current reading of the Law.
finsbury_bee
Active member
And does martial get a ban for diving?
ladbroke
Well-known member
Watching the Liverpool and Everton game, VAR rightly sends ref to screen who spends 2 seconds to say pen when the guy literally fell over. Even after reviewing the screen!
Lionel Bart-At
formerly known as 'heavywoollenbee'
He fell over the Liverpool player who was lying on the floor. His own fault. Isn't this the Aussie ref? Otherwise, did very well.
WarrenBee
Well-known member
Penalty all day long, especially as it was against Liverpool!
Kingston Bee
Active member
Absolutely atrocious. Anyone with half a football brain would know that was not a penalty. He should be made to explain to both managers how he came to arrive at that decision. He should be struck off, embarrassing at best.
Not the Aussie ref..it was Chris Kavanagh not Jarred Gillet
Banana
Very, very seldomly incorrect
It's actually when the player first touches the ball, not when the ball leavers the player's foot. Your point still stands of course, which is that it is impossible to tell exactly when that happens.
Problem I have with VAR is that they are making too many wrong calls....tonight's game Fulham v Sheff Utd...how does VAR say it is not a pen to Sheff Utd when Fulham keeper takes the player out without playing the ball.....bring back Roger Fitzpatrick (for those that can recall refs with character from the past)...
nocoat
King of the Geeks
How pathetic is var. lingard goes to celebrate them waits a minute and does it again - how spontaneous the wonderful game is
wibs
Well-known member
That non penalty was atrocious. Defied beliefProblem I have with VAR is that they are making too many wrong calls....tonight's game Fulham v Sheff Utd...how does VAR say it is not a pen to Sheff Utd when Fulham keeper takes the player out without playing the ball.....bring back Roger Fitzpatrick (for those that can recall refs with character from the past)...
hanworthbee
Well-known member
Before the Leicester goal it was a foul throw but for some reason var cannot interfere with restarts...
TW1Bee
Active member
It was Roger Kirkpatrick. A real character refereeProblem I have with VAR is that they are making too many wrong calls....tonight's game Fulham v Sheff Utd...how does VAR say it is not a pen to Sheff Utd when Fulham keeper takes the player out without playing the ball.....bring back Roger Fitzpatrick (for those that can recall refs with character from the past)...
My bad...typo error..haha - of course it was...used to brighten up the dullest games...
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
It might though have been disallowed without VAR. Reckon the lino thought Fornals scored it.
wibs
Well-known member
Lewis Dunk had a goal disallowed yesterday.
"Ref can I take a quick free kick" Ref blows whistle to signal yes
Dunk takes free kick and scores
Ref disallows goal as free kick taken too quickly.
Var didn't overrule
Insane
"Ref can I take a quick free kick" Ref blows whistle to signal yes
Dunk takes free kick and scores
Ref disallows goal as free kick taken too quickly.
Var didn't overrule
Insane
Hippobee
Member
My understanding is that VAR couldn't overrule, as the ref blew the whistle again, just after the free kick was taken. Complete cock up by the ref.
However - Brighton should stop bleating - 2 penalties given and they couldn't score. Those mistakes cost them more.
wibs
Well-known member
But this is nothing to do with the missed penalties, who even mentioned that??? It's just bizarre refereeing. As for VAR not overruling they sent him to look at the pitchside monitor.
So the upshot is play to the referees whistle unless he changes his mind.
wanderer paul
https://brentfordfcmemorabilia.wordpress.com/
You missed out the bit where the ref disallowed the goal, then allowed it and went to kick off, was then asked to review it and then decided to disallow it.
He blew twice. That can be heard, quite clearly. VAR Intervened because they said his second whistle was before the ball crossed the goal-line (this I’d dispute!).
The whole situation was shambolic and embarrassing. The ref was to blame. No one else.
As Dunk said, why isn’t the referee coming out here to explain the actions he took? It’s a joke that refs aren’t miked up as they are in rugby or you cannot hear what is being said to them from the VAR ref as we do with the TMO’s in cricket and rugby.
Football needs to change. Not hide behind a wall and hope it goes away and forgotten about.
The Pipe
Active member
Mason apparently injured so won’t do VAR duties tonight 
Billy Hunt
445
Well played, ref
ladbroke
Well-known member
Sorry, how can an injury stop you from sitting on yiur backside watching TV.Mason apparently injured so won’t do VAR duties tonight
Kingston Bee
Active member
Agree it was an utter shambles. A multi million pound industry run and managed by amateurs, when is all this crap going to stop. Don't know about you but its no longer a joke.
Lionel Bart-At
formerly known as 'heavywoollenbee'
This must have been suggested before, surely. Looking at the Werner offside tonight, it suddenly became obvious to me. This is football yes? Offside should be decided by position of feet alone. Front foot of attacker v back foot of defender. Don't know why I didn't think of this before.
Good - whilst I'm by no means a Fulham fan, I thought that decision last night was so clearly bad and wrong that it actually brought the game of football into disrepute if it was following the rules correctly.
Lionel Bart-At
formerly known as 'heavywoollenbee'
You're spot on, but I think we all knew that as soon as that ball hit his arm and the goal followed, it had to be ruled out based on the laws as they stood.
TW3Bee
It was down in the Town of Northampton
VAR used brilliantly in the Burnley v Arsenal game.
Penalty given to Arsenal for a handball on the line by Pieters, who was shown the red card.
Ball had hit his shoulder.
Red card was rescinded, drop ball to Burnley.
Penalty given to Arsenal for a handball on the line by Pieters, who was shown the red card.
Ball had hit his shoulder.
Red card was rescinded, drop ball to Burnley.
ladbroke
Well-known member
But what about the other handball 5-10 minutes earlier?
wanderer paul
https://brentfordfcmemorabilia.wordpress.com/
The one that was a metre from his arm? Give over. Never a hand ball. For once, VAR worked in those 3 instances. FINALLY!!
Common sense and understanding the game seems to have been used here, for once!
ladbroke
Well-known member
I was asking for an opinion. I agree it wasn't handball. I'm literally having this debate with an arsenal fan who can not accept it.
But he's refusing to talk about xhaka and his assist for the equaliser.
hanworthbee
Well-known member
so dortmund score a goal last night and it's called back to the VAR to look at a potential penalty in the build up to the goal for Dortmund ! the goal was chalked off and they were given a pen instead..which they missed !
Untouchable
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Wasn’t the penalty then retaken as the keeper was off his line and Dortmund scored?
hanworthbee
Well-known member
Dunno turned off after that !
Untouchable
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Somehow, VAR decided that Phil Foden having his foot wiped out wasn’t worthy of a penalty…
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