Post Match Thread Wycombe 0-0 Brentford

[Mulitinovic]

That first par is a massive overreaction.

The players are knackered and have had just two training sessions plus flights etc from international games to get ready for this game.

The games programme and two weeks (yes, two weeks) summer break is as you write, all playing a part.

Despite this we’ve only lost three games in 16 this season. People need to chill out.

I don’t think it’s a massive overreaction to say we’re not playing as well as we were last year at present and we‘d be better with the two players we sold. What am I missing? I think we agree on the reasons for that. I’m not bothered in the slightest by the results, we’re all used to playing brilliantly and losing, but every team is playing in the same conditions and our performances are not good and don’t seem to be improving.

 

[JCMcBee]

I don’t think it’s a massive overreaction to say we’re not playing as well as we were last year at present and we‘d be better with the two players we sold. What am I missing? I think we agree on the reasons for that. I’m not bothered in the slightest by the results, we’re all used to playing brilliantly and losing, but every team is playing in the same conditions and our performances are not good and don’t seem to be improving.

....you're not missing anything fella...BFC is missing said and ollie....simples.

 

[Artixbee]

If we play the brand of football we have done the last couple of games, we will not attract enough supporters and sponsors to Lionel Rd once fans are back.

 

[IslandBee]

Aimless long dinks forward that do nothing but find the head of a defender.

Don't think many of these were planned though; they were just a product of us not being sharp enough at playing out from the back. We are definitely crossing earlier when in the opposition half, which I am not sure I like, but I can understand why we are doing it.

 

[WarrenBee]

The three teams that came down are going straight back up.
Let's forget this season, and start thinking about our days ahead at LR.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Don't think many of these were planned though; they were just a product of us not being sharp enough at playing out from the back. We are definitely crossing earlier when in the opposition half, which I am not sure I like, but I can understand why we are doing it.

Problem is its been like this for weeks. TF needs to get them sharper on the ball with players moving and coming for the ball. We look scared to take a chance and link the play. Only JDS and MJ look capable of doing that atm.

 

[TW3Bee]

The lack of time added-on.

Or the fact that Toney got booked for pushing the Wycombe player, who got away scott free for doing exactly the same, both right in front of the referee, who worryingly is a Premier League official.

 

[Wooburn Bee]

Problem is its been like this for weeks. TF needs to get them sharper on the ball with players moving and coming for the ball. We look scared to take a chance and link the play. Only JDS and MJ look capable of doing that atm.

a positive is that janelt again when he came on looked a class player . Not sure if can fit both Christian and him in team but would make us a very solid team and enable our full backs to effectively be wingers with a front four having freedom ahead of them. Not ideal but may mean JDS takes up one of the wide attacking roles as he did a few times last season after a substitution but with a lot more scope than that

 

[Banana]

Just watching MOTD, man unt got a penalty for a carbon copy of the hand ball from a canos cross today the ref waved away.

I don’t know the rule anymore, who was right?

It was not a carbon copy.

You're welcome.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

a positive is that janelt again when he came on looked a class player . Not sure if can fit both Christian and him in team but would make us a very solid team and enable our full backs to effectively be wingers with a front four having freedom ahead of them. Not ideal but may mean JDS takes up one of the wide attacking roles as he did a few times last season after a substitution but with a lot more scope than that

I dont think thats our issue. In fact TF has suddenly become too concerned about us defending our goal then troubling the oppositions.

Anyway im sure we will bounce back with a few injured players back in the squad.

 

[Banana]

a positive is that janelt again when he came on looked a class player . Not sure if can fit both Christian and him in team but would make us a very solid team and enable our full backs to effectively be wingers with a front four having freedom ahead of them. Not ideal but may mean JDS takes up one of the wide attacking roles as he did a few times last season after a substitution but with a lot more scope than that

Yes. I wonder if we are better off with him in the holding role and letting Jensen move further up the pitch playing alongside JDS.

 

[BeesBloke]

I’ve had a few beers now and am still stewing on the result/performance, so probably not the best time to post, but not for the first time I find myself questioning the character of this team. We just seem to lack resolve. If a team with supposedly inferior players are prepared to outrun us, proper graft & press, that is generally enough for them to take away points. Either that or we concede late goals. Perhaps we need to review the policy of only buying nice guys as we seem to lack a nasty killer streak.

 

[jlove]

Yes. I wonder if we are better off with him in the holding role and letting Jensen move further up the pitch playing alongside JDS.

I think we lose a lot of forward passing with Jensen deeper and that, along with forwards moving into space, is at the root of the current issues. Bring in Janelt to play the 6, in Nørgaard's absence, and use Jensen to pass forward and Dasilva to carry the ball forward from positions much further forward.

 

[alexcavell]

I feel that our summer recruitment is more to blame than Frank's management. We replaced Watkins and Benrahma, but we didn't really strengthen the squad (Janelt aside).

I'm not surprised that we're showing a bit of a play-off hangover, but I am surprised that we've gone into the season without the options to change things. If ever there was a year to "go for it", then it was this one, based on how close we were and the openness of the division, but it doesn't look like we've done that. For example, it might have been expensive to bring in a loanee to cover Roerslev's injury, but if you want success then you have to be prepared to pay some money and get another option at right-back. And in the middle of the park, if neither Jensen nor Emiliano can nail down the position, why not go out and find someone who can?

I appreciate it's not my money, but some more ruthless searching for improvement in a couple of areas could have given us a lot more points on the board, and hopefully we can still do that in January. In 2013/14 we had a very heavy squad and players like Fillo, Teixeira, Grigg and Akpom ended up surplus to requirements, but other signings like Saville, McCormack and Harris worked a treat - we had the options to change things after the Stevenage fiasco and eventually found a system that worked. I'm not sure right now that we do until January unfortunately.

 

[Brentford Bob]

I know we’ve been spoiled in recent times, but is so sad to see that we have regressed this season.
Makes the wasted opportunities at Wembley, and against Stoke and Barnsley even harder to bear.

Exactly what I said to my lad as we watched Man U v West Brom tonight.... That should have been us at Old Trafford this evening, but because we pissed our panties on three occasions last season, it isn’t.

 

[Banana]

Exactly what I said to my lad as we watched Man U v West Brom tonight.... That should have been us at Old Trafford this evening, but because we pissed our panties on three occasions last season, it isn’t.

Yeah but, on the plus side, we would have had to watch it on iFollow.

 

[unBEEliveable]

I’ve had a few beers now and am still stewing on the result/performance, so probably not the best time to post, but not for the first time I find myself questioning the character of this team. We just seem to lack resolve. If a team with supposedly inferior players are prepared to outrun us, proper graft & press, that is generally enough for them to take away points. Either that or we concede late goals. Perhaps we need to review the policy of only buying nice guys as we seem to lack a nasty killer streak.

Not sure it is a policy - Maupay and Pontus aren't your typical "nice guy" for example.

 

[moribee]

You make people rant with you’re ridiculous trolling. I shouldn’t rise to it I know.

I assume from your other post that you didn’t watch it today. You carry on dreaming about a great point, I will feel disappointed about one of the most disjointed, uninspiring and messy performances we have seen for some time against a team with no flare, no pace, no skill, no decent players and are cast iron certs to go straight down.

Brentford have become one of the most innovative, envied and exciting football clubs in the world amd for bloody good reason. Today was a billion miles below the standards we ha e set and you do yourself no credit to constantly ignore what this fantastic club had become,

I will now sign off and look forward to the next game.

We didn't lose and many times we would have. Be patient. We are safe in these awful times and I feel good about Tuesday. And......I dont troll. Got too many other pressures. I just try to love the things I love.

 

[HaylingBee74]

If, big IF we can turn this unbeaten run of mainly draws into a much longer run of mainly wins then this poor run of results will be forgotten. We definitely need 4 points or better from the next 2 games.
I see others say we are due a good performance but that doesn’t mean it will happen. I feel we need to score first in games right now, and early enough to build on. That first goal can be the scrappiest of goals, we dont need to be looking for a wonderful team goal.
Our set plays have regressed, at corners use 1 player not 2 and get player 2 in or around the box. Keep it simple and aim for between the penalty spot and the 6 yard box and vary the length. Near post, far post or penalty spot.
A poor performance at Wycombe and that we should be content with a point, is only getting our minds programmed to be happy to accept poor results. We should be unhappy, and most of us are but as the cliche goes “Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water”

 

[seanrs]

The three teams that came down are going straight back up.
Let's forget this season, and start thinking about our days ahead at LR.

I kind of agree with this but as NLB mentioned in an earlier post, this runs the risk of losing the likes of Rico, Toney and Josh and needing another re-build

 

[Guildford Bee]

Just watching MOTD, man unt got a penalty for a carbon copy of the hand ball from a canos cross today the ref waved away.

I don’t know the rule anymore, who was right?

They were nothing like. The WBA player’s arm was away from his body for a start.

 

[Brentford Bob]

Yeah but, on the plus side, we would have had to watch it on iFollow.

Yeah. We said that, too.

 

[grepo]

Really not enjoying this season so far. Just not enough creativity; we're too predictable. Need to hope we're still there or thereabouts at the end of this next brutal set of fixtures and bring someone in in January. Canos doesn't look like he's going to play himself into form anytime soon. Ghoddos needs to lose at least a stone. Fosu isn't pulling up any trees. Bryan needs to start believing in himself again. We miss Christian but we need better options in front of him.

Our 'Black Star' Fosu hasn't been given a chance, at least not by 'little old Brentford'.

 

[Guildford Bee]

Our 'Black Star' Fosu hasn't been given a chance, at least not by 'little old Brentford'.

He gets a chance every day. I’ve seen nothing to suggest he’s the answer.

 

[Nickabee]

There seems to be little spirit within the squad and the management of the club seems to focus on being a bigger club in a lager new stadium and social messages more than the style of football . The players are good enough but they are surely not getting right guidance

 

[Andy_Mc_is_God]

a positive is that janelt again when he came on looked a class player . Not sure if can fit both Christian and him in team but would make us a very solid team and enable our full backs to effectively be wingers with a front four having freedom ahead of them. Not ideal but may mean JDS takes up one of the wide attacking roles as he did a few times last season after a substitution but with a lot more scope than that

Janelt AND Christian is exactly what we need Wooburn.
Win the ball, retain the ball, recycle the ball, build a platform to attack and then build the pressure.
Most teams play with two, maybe three, real midfielders - yesterday we had NONE. Just fancy ‘trick and treaters’, they’re good players but you need the ball first otherwise it won’t work.
The lack of output from Canos, Mbeumo, Ghoddos, Toney, Forss and Fosu yesterday was the effect.
The lack of a midfield was the cause.

It was evident last season v Stoke, Barnsley and Fulham and cost us dearly so pease sort it out Thomas.
What’s that saying about the definition of stupidity?
We have a good solid defence, and in Henrik and Rico two cracking players, but the rest look like a bunch of misfits. Needs sorting quickly before the season is over.

 

[High Street Bee]

We've sold our pace and flair. Yes I know we have to do it, but my god its a hard watch at the moment

 

[jlove]

Our 'Black Star' Fosu hasn't been given a chance, at least not by 'little old Brentford'.

He was given a chance yesterday.

 

[mhead bee]

It was not a carbon copy.

You're welcome.

Looked pretty similar to me, a cross stopped by hitting someones hand.

 

[seanrs]

He was given a chance yesterday.

I’m not convinced Fosu is the answer but I wouldn’t call bringing someone on for 15 minutes is being given a chance

 

[mhead bee]

Our 'Black Star' Fosu hasn't been given a chance, at least not by 'little old Brentford'.

He has played 10 games now and other than at Fulham last season I have seen nothing at all that makes me think he deserves to be picked above anyone, Canos is having a poor run of form but we know what he can do (I think TF has stuck by him long enough now but I see why he has). Maybe Fosu's day will come but at the moment he makes absolutely zero impact on the game when he comes on.

 

[West Wilts Bee]

We've sold our pace and flair. Yes I know we have to do it, but my god its a hard watch at the moment

Still no excuse or reason for the rubbish that has been served up this season, we are predictable and boring. And there should be enough class in the squad to get somewhere near to where we were last seasom.It takes us an age to mount an attack, we find the opposistion sitting there waiting for us, and the ball starts going backwards. We knew Ollie and Said would not be here this season.we replaced Ollie but not Said, if Ghoddos is Benrahmas replacement, then that’s not worked. We have spent so long chasing him, and lets be fair so far it does not look promising. We have the players but not the blend, Thomes is in charge of the team, why under his management we were playing some great neat one touch football, and now the football that has been served up this season by the same management is just not there. Time to play what we are good at playing, you cant tell me the loss of two players, would effect our style of play so much. Things need to change.

 

[jlove]

I’m not convinced Fosu is the answer but I wouldn’t call bringing someone on for 15 minutes is being given a chance

Did you see anything in that 15 minutes that made you think there was a reason for him to start?

 

[Voice from the Braemar]

I just wonder whether the realities of the end of last season are beginning to hit home now and players are thinking we really should be playing in the premier league and "We f****d it up big time"

I was thinking that on the 90th minute of the Wembley Fulham game

 

[seanrs]

Did you see anything in that 15 minutes that made you think there was a reason for him to start?

Not really but in fairness the game was pretty much dead by then as a result of our formation change. More to the point I saw plenty in the 75 minutes Canos was on the pitch to show that he shouldn’t be starting on current form

 

[mhead bee]

I feel that our summer recruitment is more to blame than Frank's management. We replaced Watkins and Benrahma, but we didn't really strengthen the squad (Janelt aside).

I'm not surprised that we're showing a bit of a play-off hangover, but I am surprised that we've gone into the season without the options to change things. If ever there was a year to "go for it", then it was this one, based on how close we were and the openness of the division, but it doesn't look like we've done that. For example, it might have been expensive to bring in a loanee to cover Roerslev's injury, but if you want success then you have to be prepared to pay some money and get another option at right-back. And in the middle of the park, if neither Jensen nor Emiliano can nail down the position, why not go out and find someone who can?

I appreciate it's not my money, but some more ruthless searching for improvement in a couple of areas could have given us a lot more points on the board, and hopefully we can still do that in January. In 2013/14 we had a very heavy squad and players like Fillo, Teixeira, Grigg and Akpom ended up surplus to requirements, but other signings like Saville, McCormack and Harris worked a treat - we had the options to change things after the Stevenage fiasco and eventually found a system that worked. I'm not sure right now that we do until January unfortunately.

I am not sure the summer recruitment was as bad as you think.

Replacing Watkins with someone who is already on 10 wasn't too shoddy. Losing SB will damage any team but I don't think the personel at the club is the issue, it is more the injuries to key players who we were expecting to be big players for us this season like Baptiste and CN. The issue is the transition at pace from front to back, people already writing of Ghoddos who will be a top player by the end of the season, there were 4-5 glimpses yesterday that showed what is to come especially when he ghosted past two players on the edge of the area before slightly over running it. His radar is slightly out at the moment but he will click.

I thought Toney worked hard and held the ball up well and BM had his best half of the season first half.

Yesterday was fekkin terrible and an awful result, but the one thing we should know by now is that TF and the DoF don't get much wrong and these things get sorted out.

 

[jlove]

I am not sure the summer recruitment was as bad as you think. ...

We replaced Watkins with Toney but Ghoddos was a previous recruitment target and clearly not a Benrahma replacement. I'd guess there were hopes for Canós but those have not materialised. We need a player in that position and it really shows, so that's the 'bad'. Janelt is a back-up for Nørgaard and has proved to be so. Goode seems a bit of a mystery, certainly appears to me to be a speculative punt rather than anything else.

 

[super J]

Awful game and poor performance, hanging on at the end against a Wycombe side who have no money and will almost certainly be relegated shows how difficult we are finding things at the moment.

We are almost unrecognisable from the free flowing side that tore sides apart after the restart in June and July. We look slow in the pass, disjointed and error prone, wide players not performing and we can't dominate the midfield like we do when we're at our best. Tiredness, playoff hangover and injuries are clearly taking its toll but I am just worried we are wasting a huge opportunity this season in a very average division this year.

We badly need Norgaard back, he protects the defence, wins back possession and dictates our play. Once we can get him back and get Dasilva and Jensen/Marcondes higher up the pitch and getting more creativity up the field we'll be in a better position. We haven't replaced Benrahma, we can't deny that and Frank saying Ghoddos is his replacement clearly isn't the case and isn't a winger at all. Canos just isn't performing, he isn't creating or looking like scoring and is reckless off the ball and gives away the ball and fouls far too often. Frank obviously doesn't fancy Fosu and can only think he wasn't in favour of signing him when we did.

No need for panic but we've got to sort this out and up our game quickly otherwise it doesn't look like we'll be in the top six this season.

 

[larrysigny]

You make people rant with you’re ridiculous trolling. I shouldn’t rise to it I know.I assume from your other post that you didn’t watch it today. You carry on dreaming about a great point, I will feel disappointed about one of the most disjointed, uninspiring and messy performances we have seen for some time against a team with no flare, no pace, no skill, no decent players and are cast iron certs to go straight down.
Brentford have become one of the most innovative, envied and exciting football clubs in the world amd for bloody good reason. Today was a billion miles below the standards we ha e set and you do yourself no credit to constantly ignore what this fantastic club had become. I will now sign off and look forward to the next game.

Can I have the name of your optician please? I thought my RTG's were strong - yours leave mine almost blinded.

 

[Delbee]

Basically , in the last few game where have the chance been created . To me it looks like Teams have worked out double up the runners with the ball keep the runners out wide . They, Brentford , not got a lot in the middle of the pitch to create chances . Yes Jenson can hit good long passes but I can only think of the through ball that Forss scored from as him creating chances

 

[Griffingreen]

I might have missed a post, but one thing not being aired in this post match chat is blame. No one is laying the blame of the performance on a scapegoat, perhaps that's because the two big reasons of criticism are blaming Marcondes (wasn't involved yesterday) or the why not play Toney and Forse together solution (might be good firepower, but where's the ammo coming from)?

 

[Holysmit]

We just don't have the pace we had last season. I don't know if Fosu is the answer as I've not seen much of him but we simply can't keep playing this formation with Canos on his current form and either need to try Fosu or change the formation and play Forss with Toney.

 

[Frothybaby]

I think it was an example of what we will face for more than 50% of the games this season. We could have won yesterday. Bryan and Toney were ok. If Forss and Toney are to work together we need to work out a way of doing it, and we haven't, though Stoke nearly fell foul of it. Sadly Canos with the ball, isn't anywhere near the start of last season. SG isn't fit enough, and will improve, but I fear for SC. We played away and kept a clean sheet. We got a point more than we got against Luton last season. With injuries we are trying different things, and it nearly worked. I thought the back line and Raya, were good. I actually think we are doing ok. But I wasn't expecting to win this league at a canter. Too many factors are coming in to play.

There are many anti-football teams in the Championship this season. As a point tally so far, compared with the previous 5, we are ok. Teams that don't want to go toe-to-toe with us, have a system that challenges us. I don't think there will be any easy points for us this season.

We are trying to get new players up to speed, and I presume with the number of games, we don't have the time to work on that. Easier to work on defence, but we are without CN. Fosu does well against a packed defence, but we weren't getting up the pitch enough for him. The left wing currently is an issue for us. That is affecting the rest of our attack. We will improve. We have seen some very good performances. When we aren't good, we have got some points, probably more than we would have in previous seasons.

 

[TG51]

I think it was an example of what we will face for more than 50% of the games this season. We could have won yesterday. Bryan and Toney were ok. If Forss and Toney are to work together we need to work out a way of doing it, and we haven't, though Stoke nearly fell foul of it. Sadly Canos with the ball, isn't anywhere near the start of last season. SG isn't fit enough, and will improve, but I fear for SC. We played away and kept a clean sheet. We got a point more than we got against Luton last season. With injuries we are trying different things, and it nearly worked. I thought the back line and Raya, were good. I actually think we are doing ok. But I wasn't expecting to win this league at a canter. Too many factors are coming in to play.

There are many anti-football teams in the Championship this season. As a point tally so far, compared with the previous 5, we are ok. Teams that don't want to go toe-to-toe with us, have a system that challenges us. I don't think there will be any easy points for us this season.

We are trying to get new players up to speed, and I presume with the number of games, we don't have the time to work on that. Easier to work on defence, but we are without CN. Fosu does well against a packed defence, but we weren't getting up the pitch enough for him. The left wing currently is an issue for us. That is affecting the rest of our attack. We will improve. We have seen some very good performances. When we aren't good, we have got some points, probably more than we would have in previous seasons.

Currently we have real confidence issues with our creative members of the side. Eg We were being comprehensively outplayed v Norwich at home, scored and then played 15 20 mins of our best football of season. Our creative side flourishes when instinctive and confident. Without that confidence slick one touch slows to 2 3 touch. BM scores rather than hits the post and the real player comes out. I hated yesterday's game but believe it will improve slowly and hopefully in time for a strong season.

 

[Doovster]

Abysmal performance offensively.

Thankfully the back 4 and Raya looked solid enough.

Janelt has to play every game as DFM until Christian returns. He's looked more than capable of doing so.

Then rotate 2 from Jensen, Josh and Marcondes higher up the pitch.

Finally Sergi has to be binned and one of Fosu, Ghoddos or Forss have to play across the front 3 with Toney and Bryan.

Hopefully Bryan can play himself back into his best form.

Get Jensen higher up the pitch where he's far more effective.

That's 2 poor performances now on the spin, with Swansea being average. I'm not advocating for a minute that Thomas needs moving on, but I know Brentford are very big on performance level as opposed to the result. Thomas is well aware of this and will not want these performance levels to continue much longer, or else.......

 

[Old B]

I keep reading a fit Baptiste will make a difference but where would he fit in, who’s place would he take in the midfield three. I suspect, CN and JDS when both fit are a shoe in, and then we have Jensen and I wonder what Janelt can do when not in the more defensive role? What a conundrum.

 

[condorman]

Yes. I wonder if we are better off with him in the holding role and letting Jensen move further up the pitch playing alongside JDS.

that’s how I would line us up currently

 

[condorman]

I keep reading a fit Baptiste will make a difference but where would he fit in, who’s place would he take in the midfield three. I suspect, CN and JDS when both fit are a shoe in, and then we have Jensen and I wonder what Janelt can do when not in the more defensive role? What a conundrum.

I believe part of the appeal with Baptiste was that he is useful at getting through a packed defence. Sounds like a useful asset when fit and on form

 

[Shamrock_Bee]

The problem with our business model whilst fantastic means we effectively have a new team every season. If you take the two best players out of any team in England; be that Liverpool, Brentford, Exeter, whatever level of the game you'll suffer.

We aren't the same as a few months ago, that team got to a play off final and should have been promoted. Forget the injuries; the two best players from that team are gone so we're now rebuilding again. We want to be challenging in the same way we did a few months ago but it's almost impossible to do that straight away - yes the money is in the bank but it stands to reason that will have a negative effect on the field; at least initially. Our expectations well some are based on Brentford 19/20 but Brentford 20/21 are not the same.

 

[shepperton bee]

After nearly 24 hrs still pretty depressed after that performance particularly in the second half . Among our other problems it’s pretty obvious that we just don’t have the ability to change a game from the bench , we switch formation and everyone loses the plot completely, we were hanging on against Boro and Wycombe , either we need to bloody practice the changed formation more or keep same shape and just change personnel , unpopular though it is I’d rather bring Toney off and Forss on and give him a proper chance . Time for some perspective I guess it’s not long ago we outclassed Luton , similar opponents to Wycombe and I guess we need to dig in a bit rest Canos and get Janelt back in the side , he was great at Luton get Jensen further up the pitch and Marcondes too and let’s see where that takes us . Past experience tells me not to panic just yet .