1st half performances

[Hippobee]

I touched on this in another thread last night. I don't think we have had a decent first half performance in the league since October. It is not all down to injuries, as there have been some decent 2nd half performances since then (including last night).

Our midfield just doesn't seem to exert any control - either giving the ball away, the game passing them by as the ball gets lumped forward, or they are closed down too quickly for them to do anything about it and the ball gets stolen. It's not personnel, as the likes of Jensen, Ghoddos, Janelt , FTT, Baptiste even Norgaard have all looked rubbish in many first halves, but good in the 2nd.

For all of TF's talk about being brave on the ball, we never look it in the first half, appearing cautious, ponderous, predictable and set up to not lose, rather than win. It was also disappointing to see the return of the the hoof up front last night, with Toney back. It's poor and pointless.

My theory is that we are just not able to cope with the opposition team pressing/closing us down in the first halves. Anyone with a decent attack takes advantage of this and we go in behind. Once they are ahead, they don't continue with the relentless pressing. The games against Leeds, Watford and Everton (where we got 7 points) were no better in the first half - the difference was they didn't make more of their chances and our improved 2nd half performance was enough to turn it around. When we attack teams, we look really dangerous, but we don't seem to do it now until we are behind.

TF can't be held to account for our players cheaply giving the ball away. However, I wonder what is being done to address this as we are clearly not set up to 'be brave' and appear to be making the same mistakes. Toney's frustration was there for all to see and although it's great to see the team battling back in 2nd halves, we can't keep playing opening 45s like this and not continue to lose points.

 

[SH]

Neither Raya nor Ajer has played since Leicester (24th October). I think that’s all you need to know. They‘re the two players who start everything for us, creating space and momentum. Just awful luck to lose both at the same time and for lengthy injuries.

 

[fencer/bee]

Neither Raya nor Ajer has played since Leicester (24th October). I think that’s all you need to know. They‘re the two players who start everything for us, creating space and momentum. Just awful luck to lose both at the same time and for lengthy injuries.

Good point, when high pressed from a goal kick we are having trouble moving forward, either passing or running with the ball , wednesday we will see how City over come the problem

 

[jlove]

Neither Raya nor Ajer has played since Leicester (24th October). I think that’s all you need to know. They‘re the two players who start everything for us, creating space and momentum. Just awful luck to lose both at the same time and for lengthy injuries.

That's about it. We have great difficulty getting a ball out of defence and that encourages a higher press from the opposition. It wasn't until the second half yesterday that Brighton sat deeper and just clogged the midfield that we got a bit more forward... and then it was Mads who was progressing the ball. Raya's distribution and Ayer's progression is sorely missed as it's just to-you; to-me until we give the ball away otherwise.

 

[mhead bee]

Neither Raya nor Ajer has played since Leicester (24th October). I think that’s all you need to know. They‘re the two players who start everything for us, creating space and momentum. Just awful luck to lose both at the same time and for lengthy injuries.

Exactly, any team in the premier league would miss those two.

All this bed-wetting every time we lose is so tedious. We are going to lose games but we will also win games, this is the PREMIER League FFS.

 

[Hippobee]

Bump for this thread.

20 minutes in and we haven't done anything. We just do not look up to the pace of the game too often in the first half.
(I'm now hoping me posting this results in a great equaliser!)

 

[RAF_Patto]

Exactly, any team in the premier league would miss those two.

All this bed-wetting every time we lose is so tedious. We are going to lose games but we will also win games, this is the PREMIER League FFS.

I'm concerned by our lack of press against the "lesser" teams. Against Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Arsenal we've looked bang up for it and got right in their faces, which suits us and plays to a lot of our strengths.

We need to give the likes of Villa and Brighton the same treatment and come out at them.

 

[ladbroke]

I'm concerned by our lack of press against the "lesser" teams. Against Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Arsenal we've looked bang up for it and got right in their faces, which suits us and plays to a lot of our strengths.

We need to give the likes of Villa and Brighton the same treatment and come out at them.

Would help if the fans treat the games the same too.
Been to two games myself when coming down from Scotland.
Norwich we were very flat and only made noises when we scored. We had a spell for about 5 or 10 minutes after but then went quiet.
But against Man City we were singing more or less throughout.

Watching on the TV I heard Villa an awful lot, even before their goal.
Same can be said in other games too by the way.
Except when we play big teams. Liverpool and Arsenal sounded impressive.

Our fans should react to challenges or goals to get going, or specific opponents.
We need them for every game, from the off.

 

[BuzzingBee95]

Someone touched on it before, but our intensity from the off can be depended on the Calibre of the opposition. Against teams lower down in the town we do seem to have indifferent starts.

I must admit I can’t off the top of my head recall a great first half. Sure there is one somewhere.

It might be that TF simply believes that as we are in a league against opposition who will on the whole have greater technical ability than us ( although there are some who don’t). Those teams are much more likely to aim for prolonged pressure that will drop off at some point in the second half, as was the case today.

I do think it’s miraculous sometimes we’re not 3 or 4 down after half an hour.

Yet given our tendency to improve in the second half, it must be affected somewhat by tactics perhaps.

It is odd as well that against top teams such as Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal we have periods of sustained pressure and attacks. Whereas against teams in the lower half of the table we seem to be dependent on one or two moments of magic.

Is it fitness, is it to lull opposition into relaxed second half displays, I don’t know. Either way, makes for a hard watch sometimes

 

[Frothybaby]

Someone touched on it before, but our intensity from the off can be depended on the Calibre of the opposition. Against teams lower down in the town we do seem to have indifferent starts.

I must admit I can’t off the top of my head recall a great first half. Sure there is one somewhere.

It might be that TF simply believes that as we are in a league against opposition who will on the whole have greater technical ability than us ( although there are some who don’t). Those teams are much more likely to aim for prolonged pressure that will drop off at some point in the second half, as was the case today.

I do think it’s miraculous sometimes we’re not 3 or 4 down after half an hour.

Yet given our tendency to improve in the second half, it must be affected somewhat by tactics perhaps.

It is odd as well that against top teams such as Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal we have periods of sustained pressure and attacks. Whereas against teams in the lower half of the table we seem to be dependent on one or two moments of magic.

Is it fitness, is it to lull opposition into relaxed second half displays, I don’t know. Either way, makes for a hard watch sometimes

Wolves was a great first half.

 

[I'll Bee Damned]

Wolves was a great first half.

…as was West Ham

I think we saw this first half of last season too where we sometimes reserve ourselves for later in the game, holding the opposition as long as possible before upping the dynamism generally and specifically by using subs as happened yesterday.

 

[jlove]

…as was West Ham

I think we saw this first half of last season too where we sometimes reserve ourselves for later in the game, holding the opposition as long as possible before upping the dynamism generally and specifically by using subs as happened yesterday.

In the last couple of seasons my son and I have noticed that we often play very cautiously for the first 20 minutes and then seem to switch on. We thought it was just waiting to understand what the opposition tactics were and our subjective impression was that we seemed to score often between 20 and 30 minutes.

 

[costabees]

I agree with someone above talking about the atmosphere. Against the top 6 teams, it’s great but it’s always so flat against the mid table teams and lower, when in theory these are the more important ones.

 

[Frothybaby]

I believe we set up to take advantage last 10 minutes 1st half and last 20 in second. The only difference is if we work a chance or against the big teams where we seem to start in the front foot. I have thought we tend to do this for many years. Probably influenced by data and the teams we are playing though.

 

[BFC1997]

By contrast we seem to be pretty solid in the second half of games.

 

[BuzzingBee95]

It might be that, consciously or not, we match the intensity and fluidity we are expecting to receive depending on the opposition’s level. E.g. against higher teams, we frustrate them from minute one ( e.g. Man City).

Someone mentioned it already, but the influences of data and stats can have an invisible influence on how a team approaches the game. Slow starts, strong finishes has become the norm from bees.

When you’re losing 3-0 at hf to Burnley it looks awful. When you fight back against Villa, it looks great!

 

[Hippobee]

And another rinse and repeat first half of conceding first and giving the ball away needlessly.

Not expecting them to roll over, but remember this is the team most on here were saying were chickening out and would try to get the game postponed due to a covid case or two and an injury. Oh, and they played about 90 minutes with ten men at the weekend.

Let's hope we have one of our trademark comebacks in the second half and Southampton get knackered.

 

[wibs]

AS I mentioned elsewhere we have conceded 1st in 13 out of last 14 PL games

Are we nervous, and overawd or something, do we not have have self belief to feel we belong where we are , imposters syndrome if you like?

It really is very odd.

 

[TW3Bee]

We have conceded 20 goals in the first half, more than any other team.

 

[SH]

AS I mentioned elsewhere we have conceded 1st in 13 out of last 14 PL games

Are we nervous, and overawd or something, do we not have have self belief to feel we belong where we are , imposters syndrome if you like?

It really is very odd.

Apologies for repeating post #2, but really do think it's primarily down to the loss of Raya. I know losing one player shouldn't, but it's had a dramatic impact on our entire style and pace of play: we're slow and getting harried remorselessly at the back and not finding space up front, and it's clearly drained confidence.

 

[ChrisSmith1992]

Felt similar last year in the championship, but you knew the goals would come. The last few months, that confidence is fading fast.

 

[badgerbee]

We 'only' lost the first half 2-1 last night.............
We lost the 2nd half 2-0.........


I know, I know, what happens in the first half dictates the rest of the game, but #justsaying............

 

[FunkyZeus]

I think we went on a run in the Championship last season of falling behind and turning it around to win (or draw) the match.

Actually, looking online, we won the most points having fallen behind in the Championship last season - 23 points gained having fallen behind in 18 matches (W6, D5, L7).

Championship - Points after falling behind 20/21

Not sure what point i'm trying to make, but seems to be a theme over the course of more than just this season, and obviously harder this season in the Prem to try and get something having conceded the first goal...

 

[Invipai]

Yeah, we did have this in The Championship as well, so not sure it's down to the Prem specifically. It just seems like we don't play until we have something to play for (clawing back a goal). We do need to be in games earlier though as others have stated, coming back from behind isn't sustainable as a plan...

Sometimes against the poorer teams, it's like we don't know whether to go at them or just make ourselves hard to beat. I don't think it's a coincidence we play better against the bigger teams than small, we've set ourselves up in a way to get something in those ones. But we're sometimes getting caught out against the others.

Our worst performances have come against Southampton, Norwich and Burnley (which is still their only win of the season). We need to be able to be very competitive in those games really. Losing is OK, but those were all very easy losses.

 

[Wise old Bee]

I'm happy for us to sit back early on and settle into the game. For all our defensive work this season we have conceded significant goals early on with headers from about six yards out, largely unchallenged. We should be able to defend corners better and not concede from one in the first five minutes. Watford and Burnley scored from similar distances in open play. Too many centres are getting into dangerous areas in our box. Hopefully, Ajer and Roerslev will establish a better understanding and, obviously, Rico's return is important. I don't blame Sergi as he is not a defender.

 

[Bridge Bee]

I can’t even remember the last time we scored the 1st goal in a premier league match??

Someone help me out.

 

[Alex]

I can’t even remember the last time we scored the 1st goal in a premier league match??

Someone help me out.

Everton at home

 

[RAF_Patto]

Does anyone know how many goals we've conceded from set pieces? I've just Googled it but cannot see anything that specific.

Seems to me we do concede regularly from corner or balls in the box....even Port Vale managed it! Not sure what it is, but we never seem to be winning that first header.

Clearly not just a Raya or individual issue either, as it's already been mentioned we were similar last year, so that strikes me as a system issue!

 

[Frothybaby]

I imagine we have had more points from 2nd halves than 1st halves. I wouldn't be surprised if we started with less intensity in order to ramp it up in the last 20. Apart from the strong teams where we start pressing very early. Having said that, what's happened to our pressing game?

 

[Hippobee]

A very un-Brentford like first half this evening.

-Up and at 'em from the off.
-Great, attacking football.
-Not giving Manure any time on the ball.
-Should be 2-0 up at least.
-Actually 'being brave' in a first half, instead of looking petrified we're going to concede.
-P.S Man U look sh*te to me.

Now powderpuff Ronaldo is getting in a huff. Good.

More of the same please 2nd half, Bees. Let's see some Manure infighting and blaming each other as they leave BCS with nil points.

 

[TW3Bee]

Best first half, I have seen, by a million miles this season, just a shame we didn't get the goals we deserved.

 

[badgerbee]

Time to start a "2nd Half Performances" thread............??...........

 

[BFC1997]

Interesting breakdown here:

 

[Hippobee]

May be time to bump this thread.

3 our of 4 PL games have been very poor first halves. The exception, against Man U, couldn't be more extreme!

Seems to be down to the 433 formation, not having the desired personnel in defence and Wissa not doing enough up front.

The consolation is that we've only lost one game, and that was a last-minute winner in a game we almost won. However, the downside is that at least 2 of those games have been against potential relegation material. We don't need to be gung ho in the first half, but I'd certainly like to see more attacking intent, more movement/showing for the ball and a bit more pace. We need to be less worried about tiring, when we have 5 subs we can bring on.

 

[bee good]

Moving the ball is just so slow and quite often sloppy we seem to recover our zip as the game goes on.

 

[Gee Bee]

May be time to bump this thread.

3 our of 4 PL games have been very poor first halves. The exception, against Man U, couldn't be more extreme!

Seems to be down to the 433 formation, not having the desired personnel in defence and Wissa not doing enough up front.

The consolation is that we've only lost one game, and that was a last-minute winner in a game we almost won. However, the downside is that at least 2 of those games have been against potential relegation material. We don't need to be gung ho in the first half, but I'd certainly like to see more attacking intent, more movement/showing for the ball and a bit more pace. We need to be less worried about tiring, when we have 5 subs we can bring on.

Better finishing yesterday could have seen us a few goals up at HT, thought we looked ok in most part. Everton were going in long behind as little worked for them in possession in front. One worked for them and that was down to Zanka, still coming back to full match fitness.

 

[BlueJayBee]

I thought our first half performance, yesterday, wasn't actually that bad. We looked dangerous in attack and created a lot of chances. Bryan had 2 good chances that he could/should have put away, Mathias and Ivan both hit the woodwork and Yoane should have done better on the follow-up after Ivan's header had come back off the post. Everton could have had no complaints if we'd gone in 3-1 up at half time.

 

[JANORAK]

Better finishing yesterday could have seen us a few goals up at HT, thought we looked ok in most part. Everton were going in long behind as little worked for them in possession in front. One worked for them and that was down to Zanka, still coming back to full match fitness.

…and Lampard thought they controlled the game!

Trying to be dispassionate, the 2nd half at home should be better. Attacking the West Stand, half time team talk and tactical tweaks, urgency led by time decreasing, all contributing to pressure on the opposition.
5 subs should mean a 2nd half crescendo, whatever happened before half time..

 

[Braemarroad_Bee]

Yes this is a recurring theme at the moment. First 20 minutes, Everton seemed to start with a higher tempo than us. Despite that, we actually had a number of great chances in the first half and should have been at least level at the break. Can't afford to keep starting games slowly though.

 

[Braemarroad_Bee]

And just to add, I thought we were great second half, kept going to the end and deserved to win. But at least we got that late goal!

 

[sacbfc]

For me, the 4-3-3 system doesn't work. When we change to 3-5-2, we look so much better and get back into the game. The 3-5-2 system is what we should be starting with most games. (only started with it vs Man U).

 

[GP200]

...............far better............