5 in Midfield

Les Beeavinu

Les Beeavinu

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5 in Midfield

Would anyone tolerate the tactics used against Leeds in any other game? Is this the way forward away from home or against other high flyers or should we call it an effective one off that can now be consigned to the bin?

I personally would not like to see us play this way against Charlton.
 

5 in Midfield

I hated it, I liked the game and the atmosphere and we got a point but I wouldn't like too much of it.
 

5 in Midfield

If we did play one up front and five in midfield, the one should be Cort or Strevens and the five should include Weston and Taylor/Saunders. Crosses into the box and all that.
 

5 in Midfield

I think there is a definate argument for playing these tactics in tough away games or against very strong attacking teams at home.

Some people on here have a meatdown when we roll over away from home and talk about Scott out and relegation, surely they would be far happier to pick up points away from home with negative tactics and attack teams at home and go for three points.

I'm not suggesting I want to see this more than say once a month but dependant on the oppostion Saturday's tactics certainly have their merits!
 

5 in Midfield

jharvey85 said:
If we did play one up front and five in midfield, the one should be Cort or Strevens and the five should include Weston and Taylor/Saunders. Crosses into the box and all that.
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:imwith:

I would like to see a bigger target at the point of the attack. Charlie's workrate is important to this formation and he can be incorporated, but I think Cort at the point would be beneficial. Maybe have Weston and Charlie either side.
 

5 in Midfield

it would be ok if the wingers really pushed up to support the lone frontman
 

5 in Midfield

i hope we dont play like that against Charlton we should go into every game trying to win not hoping we dont concede but hoping we score
 

5 in Midfield

It worked on Saturday, when we expected to be defending, but we need the right players for it: Strevens did his bit, but looked out of position and Charlie never posed any attacking threat, though he kept defenders occupied.

Bostock might also be more productive as the front one of the middle 3, with Weston wide left. I'm not sure either Saunders or Taylor is ideally suited to the right-hand side.

If we try it at MK - where we might expect to be under pressure (though they don't score all that many at home) - I'd expect the same 3 CM, but possibly Weston left and Bostock right (if Weston is fit) and Cort or Strevens up front to try to hold the ball and bring others into play
 

5 in Midfield

jharvey85 said:
If we did play one up front and five in midfield, the one should be Cort or Strevens and the five should include Weston and Taylor/Saunders. Crosses into the box and all that.
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Agreed, also the pace of Weston/Saunders would be important in supporting the target man.

I think we should play like this in the majority of away games untill we start picking up points.

Cort should be the lone striker, because for me he has the best hold up and link up play out of our front line - important if he is going to be isolated.

You would need Dicko, Foster/Wilson, Bean and Hunt bombing forward at most oppurtunites as well.

However, if we play 3 midfielders across the middle, a suspension/injury to one of them leaves us very very short of orthodox central midfielders.

Still think we should get Frankie Artus back on loan :)
 

5 in Midfield

If we were to play 5 i would like to see

Saunders KOC Bostock Hunt Weston

with Cort/Strevens up front.
 

5 in Midfield

We didn't play 5 in midfield, Hunt effectively played as an extra defender hence the 4-1-4-1 description.

Five in midfield in a 4-5-1 formation is the most common tactic in the Premiership these days as it can become 4-3-3 in attack but if you want to close a game down you keep the five back in midfield.

Cort or Strevens would be fine in that formation as they can play the target man to hold the ball up.
 

5 in Midfield

Les Beeavinu said:
Would anyone tolerate the tactics used against Leeds in any other game? Is this the way forward away from home or against other high flyers or should we call it an effective one off that can now be consigned to the bin?

I personally would not like to see us play this way against Charlton.
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At least it was a tactic that worked as we were only the third team to stop them scoring in a game this season, and they, and a lot of us, thought we were in for a hammering on Saturday.:sorted:
 

5 in Midfield

Hated it personally. However, job done and bonus point bagged, with the added bonus of every team below us losing.
Would NOT want to watch us employing these tactics at home against anybody else: but we do have Charlton and Soton coming up.....and, if it worked once, would I be surprised if AS used the tactic again?.........NO, unfortunately.

Was surprised that Strevens was picked in front of Saunders. Seemed a waste of a forward. Why not actually play a midfielder. Also agree with comments on using Weston (who I think could be a very good player) for some pace on the wing, just in case we ever attacked.

As for Charlie as lone striker...........goodness me, did he work hard. Absolute respect to the man. Got more of the ball than a lot of forwards would have done, even more so than a target man such as Cort possibly.

Honestly though, how many of us expected anything other than a defeat against Leeds? So again, job done.
 

5 in Midfield

rg12bee said:
Was surprised that Strevens was picked in front of Saunders. Seemed a waste of a forward. Why not actually play a midfielder.
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Height on set pieces and physical presence. He stuck to it and it worked.

Horrible stuff to watch this 4-1-4-1 though.
 

5 in Midfield

Never again this season at home. :nono: Can try it away but more support needed for Charlie or whoever the main frontman is.
 

5 in Midfield

Sometimes you just have to stifle the opposition to such an extent that they try and change their game plan and frustrate so much that possible counter attack is achievable. It worked saturday and will work again.
we actually went 5 aginst 5 in midfield to stop their supply to Beckford. I found it quite enthralling rather than boring.

I'd be quite happy to see 4-5-1 played regularly if it included Bostock in the centre instead of Hunt or Bean. The two wide men of Taylor/Saunders & Weston would enable 4-3-3 for great parts or convert to 4-4-2 with Bostock or Weston joining the front man target too.

There were a couple of moments when Bean almost got beyond Macdonald with good runs, unfortunatley the balls played and/or teh service wasn't quite upto the good move being made off teh ball by Bean.
 

5 in Midfield

Not a bad idea for difficult away games but was dissapointed we didnt have the bottle to try and beat Leeds on saturday i feel they were there for the taking yet we werent prepared to give it a go. Strevens and Charlie were wasted. Its ok to start a game with 5 in the middle but when it became clear Leeds werent at their best and we were actually good enough to beat them i would have loved to seen Strevens moved up top and have a real go at them.
 

5 in Midfield

Low End Bee said:
Height on set pieces and physical presence. He stuck to it and it worked.
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I saw that logic too. That's why Kevin Davies plays right-wing for Bolton, even though he is nothing like your typical winger.
 

5 in Midfield

Brentford 4 Life said:
Not a bad idea for difficult away games but was dissapointed we didnt have the bottle to try and beat Leeds on saturday i feel they were there for the taking yet we werent prepared to give it a go. Strevens and Charlie were wasted. Its ok to start a game with 5 in the middle but when it became clear Leeds werent at their best and we were actually good enough to beat them i would have loved to seen Strevens moved up top and have a real go at them.
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Did you consider the reason they "weren't at their best" was that we had five men in midfield?
 

5 in Midfield

I hated it Saturday but could see the benefits away from home against the more free scoring teams but would like to see if he played five in midfield again a more attacking five not completely but just that extra one possibley two attacking if this was to be played again my five would be Taylor, Saunders, Bean, Bostock, Weston that is assuming Bostock comes back and would probably need Hunt or O'Connor in there as well and take one of the more attacking players out but would like to that midfield
 

5 in Midfield

Its strange that many hate to see 4-5-1 yet Leeds are top of the league playing 5 in midfield home & away for most parts of the season so far.
Strevens, Bostock & Bean all got up alongside Macdonald on occassions when breaking but final delivery & personel used often was the failure not the formation imho.
However I would add that once Leeds put Kandol up and played 4-4-2, we could have put on another attacker. Although one with pace at that stage of the game would be better option and Weston & Taylor were not on the bench. :sad:
 

5 in Midfield

Leeds play 4-5-1?:confused:
Becchio and Beckford aren't midfielders and they tend to start when fit.
 

5 in Midfield

I think the specific formation was to counter Leeds with their two central midfielders - so Kev & Bean marked man-to-man (thus pissing off their 4 & 8) - and having Hunt as cover for the deeper of the two front men running forward. This forced them into the long ball, which Pim & Legge dealt with effectively. Bostock and Strevens kept their full-backs from overlapping... so, without sneaking a 12th man on, it only left one position, Charlie, who's job was to deny time to their CB's.

Our only goal hope was from set plays, with Pim and Legge always up for them.

So, the formation was a strategy for a specific opposition. In this case, Cort was never going to harry their CB's and run the channels. If AS decides to "go defensive" again, it may not be with the same formation; 4-1-4-1 is not 4-5-1, and it's not 4-3-3.
 

5 in Midfield

Personally I tghink Andy should stickj with this system away from home where our record is awful and it might enablke us to garner the odd point or so on our travels and move us to safety.
At home I would prefer a more attacking option however given time with this system we may find the wide players and mnidfield come more into the game and start creating goal scoring chances.
It was not pretty but it was highly effective and I would certainly not be suprised if it was used in our next 3 games MK Dons Gillingham and Charlton, with it we might gain soime points which many felt following Tranmere to be unlikely.
 

5 in Midfield

mundee4england said:
I think there is a definate argument for playing these tactics in tough away games or against very strong attacking teams at home.

Some people on here have a meatdown when we roll over away from home and talk about Scott out and relegation, surely they would be far happier to pick up points away from home with negative tactics and attack teams at home and go for three points.

I'm not suggesting I want to see this more than say once a month but dependant on the oppostion Saturday's tactics certainly have their merits!
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4-5-1 can work provided you have runners in midfield to get up to support the lone striker, however even if we pack the midfield the opposition will always have chances, Leeds would have scored twice if not for Chesney ;)
 

5 in Midfield

shouldbee said:
4-5-1 can work provided you have runners in midfield to get up to support the lone striker, however even if we pack the midfield the opposition will always have chances, Leeds would have scored twice if not for Chesney ;)
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Yep, that'll be what goalies are for then.
 

5 in Midfield

Fairly sure we will play that way against Leeds and Norwich away from home but we never looked like scoring on Saturday. Unfortunately we are not in a position to look to stifle teams and score from set plays so will have to be more attacking at home which I am sure we will be in future. To be fair Scotty got his tactics spot on and not many sides will avoid defeat and keep a clean sheet against Leeds this season.
 

5 in Midfield

We can't score with two upfront. Need loanee's to extend stay, two new forwards and bostock playing CM for me.
 

5 in Midfield

I would say that AS sets his teams up to give little away first & foremost and what will have annoyed him the most this season is that we haven't been more difficult to beat away from home. This is why with a 4-4-2 he will always stick with 2 solid central midfielders, despite the many calls on the GPG for a midfield 'schemer', IMHO it's not the AS way.

As others have said, 4-5-1 could allow Bostock to play central with 2 of KOC, Bean & Hunt as minders, plus it also might allow Scott to be more attacking with his choice of wide players, in fact it could be the making of Sam Saunders / Myles Weston. Perhaps defensive frailties are why Saunders does not get a game. But it would put a huge onus on a mobile, physical front man & getting good ball into his feet.

I can well believe that AS will play 4-5-1 in the coming away games if he feels it gave him the solidity he may feel we have lacked away from home.
It would be interesting to see if he would be adventurous enough to include Bostock in the middle and who he would play wide & up front.

I don't think it absolutely has to be negative & defensive, if this allows us to get a foothold in a game & get us passing the ball to feet, who knows, we may even end up scoring the odd away goal :cool:
 

5 in Midfield

I think AS got it about right.

Most expected us to get murdered and would have settled for a point before the game, so what did you all expect?

Points make prizes not entertaining... and towards the end of the game we had a couple of half chances to win it...
 

5 in Midfield

Greenholme Bee said:
I think AS got it about right.

Most expected us to get murdered and would have settled for a point before the game, so what did you all expect?

Points make prizes not entertaining... and towards the end of the game we had a couple of half chances to win it...
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Think we should adopt this formation away from home and for tough home games as it worked well. I would leave player positions as on Saturday though, and not move Bostock to centre mid, as he gets more freedom on the wing.
Charlie could have got the winner near the end but for a block by Leeds centre back.
 

5 in Midfield

vs mkdons and charlton. a draw is what we will need and a solid midfield against the larger more skillful teams. hunt must start as he brought such stability against Leeds and dominated the midfield
 

5 in Midfield

I prefer 442, but can see the point when playing the very top teams. However, for the last 20 minutes we didn't even try to score. For this tactic to work, we need to get plenty in the box for corners and free kicks - towards the end of the Leeds match we had only a couple of players trying to get on the end of corners. That was what really p'd me off.
 

5 in Midfield

I had no issues at all with AS's tactics, they were the right tactics against this team and we got a point where even the most optimistic fan expected nothing.

Armchair managers bitching again because the football isn't 'attractive' enough. If it gets us a result, and a draw against Leeds was a good result, then I don't care what formation AS plays, he's the boss and I am confident knows a lot more about what he can get from his team than half the opinionated muppets that post on here.
 

5 in Midfield

Unless bostock extends his loan whatever formation we use will not include him so it doesn't really matter what his best position is you might find the 3rd centre midfield spot could be filled by Charlie with Strevens the loan striker.
If we play that way again that is
 

5 in Midfield

NorthamptonBee said:
They took Vokes on loan and he played up until they started thinking he was pants, my mate goes to loads of Leeds games and has just confirmed that 4-5-1 is not what they play.:D
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Well everytime I've seen them in recent weeks Beckford is definitely playing alone. Bechio played saturday and was definitely not up front. You can call it 4-4-1-1 if you like but with Gradel/Snodgrass and Howson wide I tend to see Becchio very much pulling strings behind Beckford yes but very much working back as a midfielder when the ball is wide and they move towards a 4-3-3. Which is exactly what I would do with our personel available. With Bostock playing the becchio role. As I previously stated its flexible and will be whatever is required at any stage of a match without losing balance.
I also saw Vokes play and he effectively played in front of Beckford too and not alongside him, similar to Becchio on saturday.
 

5 in Midfield

Les Beeavinu said:
Would anyone tolerate the tactics used against Leeds in any other game? Is this the way forward away from home or against other high flyers or should we call it an effective one off that can now be consigned to the bin?

I personally would not like to see us play this way against Charlton.
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Les - I hope the tactics were a one off. The concensus seems to be, that the end justified the means, and on reflection that might be correct, but I'd like to think that in other games we will try to play more football, and at least make some attempt to try to score a goal. For me, it's not the 5 in midfield that would be an issue in other games, as this formation can be used postively and effectively, but I wouldn't want to see too many more games, where every ball was just either hoofed wide right to Strevens, or up front for Charlie.
 

5 in Midfield

We've shown at home against good teams like Norwich, Colchester and Millwall that we can play 4-4-2 and come away with a good result. Leeds were a different proposition, as the table shows, and the 4-5-1 worked well.

I would expect us to try the 4-5-1 regularly away from home, though, because the results and performances have not been good enough with the 4-4-2. If we can extend Bostock's loan, I'd like to see him and two of Bean, O'Connor and Hunt in the middle, with Weston and Strevens out wide in this system.
 

5 in Midfield

I dont know why people are knocking the possible future use of 5 in midfield on just 1 game. Leeds have the tightest defence in the division having only conceded 10 goals all season . Therefore to me its not such a surprise that Charlie didn't get much joy against their defence. Against teams with "weaker" defences who is to say we wont create (and hopefully) score more than we have been ??
 

5 in Midfield

Bigbee said:
Smarty,:nono:

Yeah but hes a very good goalie,our other goalies may of not saved us.
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Yes that's what I thought, but he can't help it :D
 

5 in Midfield

We expected a defeat on Saturday. Tactics were spot on and we got a point. I'd rather see us grind out a good point than roll over whether it's home or away. I thought we matched them for 90 minutes on Saturday, and I'd much prefer seeing us battling it out and not losing rather than being overly cavalier and getting beaten. Well done AS.
 
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