Administration-would he do it?

[JTofBFC]

Seems to me that the question of whether Noades will put the club into administration as threatened is the key to a whole load of things surrounding our club.

In fact it appears that Bees United have been bullied by him under this very threat to loosening their stance on the S106.

My personal opinion is that he wont do it and is bluffing but I wouldn't want to take the risk I suppose and also Bees United have apparantly also taken advice from an insolvency practitioner.

However, one issue that might not have been considered and maybe should be is the rules regarding disqualification of directors. I don't think Uncle Ron would be too keen to put himself in the firing line for a disqualification by Companies House, as it would affect his ability to run his Company Group but have a look at the attached link and see how many of the potential reasons for disqualification it might be alleged he has breached.

Excessive remuneration during insolvency could be a good start.

Would he really risk it?

By the way if anybody wants to know more about administration generally the other pages on the website are quite informative.

http://www.companyrescue.co.uk/company_rescue/guides/directors.html

 

[Sweepy]

Ron is a spiteful little man in my opinion.

He would do it, even if there were no short term benefits - and they're aren't.

 

[davebee]

still undecided, but on the balance of things, i think he would do what is in HIS best interests, which is sadly administration.

 

[Nigel Brooks]

Seems to me that the question of whether Noades will put the club into administration as threatened is the key to a whole load of things surrounding our club.

In fact it appears that Bees United have been bullied by him under this very threat to loosening their stance on the S106.

B]

It would be sensible to think that BU had not taken their current position UNLESS the threat of imminent administration was VERY real.

Ron can throw his toys out of the pram at any time, but I, for one, am tired of the efforts BIAS and BU have made to work WITH Ron. This is not a criticism of either BIAS or BU (whose remit remember is to secure continuity of the football club) but at every turn Ron has sought to divide and alienate those who want to secure the future of Brentford in Brentford, the programme notes are the most obvious testament to this.

The gloves are off now, it's time for EVERY Bees fan to stand up and be counted, or do we simply accept that 'Ron knows best' and disappear quietly into oblivion? The choice IS ours.

 

[Simon T]

The one where we would have a chance of nailing the git would be "trading while knowingly insolvent". I'm not going to suggest that any bid letters for GP from property development companies that are less than the value of the current debt would end up in a shredder, but I certainly hope that if any bids have been made in writing, all members of the board have requested copies for inspection.

The one sweet aspect of all this is that Ron passing Altonwood's share of GPS to Mardonmain could actually be the thing which might tip things over the edge and allow that accusation, maybe Tea Boy should get out a calculator to work out whether making the tea WILL be the only job he'll be able to get for a few years if RN goes for administration.

 

[Stanley]

I don't think he would, for one his ego would not stand the thought that he had failed.

But can we afford to take the risk, administration would it seem be the end of GP. He knows how much GP is a spiritual home to Bees fans so he is playing brinkmanship with it. He is certainly ruthless enough to do it which is why we despise him so much

 

[chippendale]

I think in the end he would put us into Administration, he might think Let get right up the nose of those B***s****ds on GPG once and for all.

 

[Gee Bee]

Excessive remuneration during insolvency could be a good start.


http://www.companyrescue.co.uk/company_rescue/guides/directors.html

What insolvency? Our assets have always been more than expenditure, because land owned values are included in audited accounts. Also whilst he was getting his money transfer values were also in register. We may well make a loss per annum and every year our asset is being used up, but we are not insolvent, yet.

 

[Simon T]

Re: Re: Administration-would he do it?

What insolvency? Our assets have always been more than expenditure, because land owned values are included in audited accounts. Also whilst he was getting his money transfer values were also in register. We may well make a loss per annum and every year our asset is being used up, but we are not insolvent, yet.

I think it should be assets greater than liabilities. I think in another thread abee indicated that the auditors were very unhappy about the asset value given to GP given the current planning consents against it (I can't remember whether he said they rejected or revised them downwards). If our current level of liabilities is greater than the currently achievable value of our assets then we would be insolvent, how close to that we actually are nobody knows due to the "smoke and mirrors" method of budgeting used by Ron Noades where every reduction in costs, increase in revenue or not budgeted for windfall do not seem to actually reach the bottom line of the accounts. That's why I said I hope the board (most notably John McGlashan) have copies of any written bids for GP, the value of GP is basically what anybody would be willing to pay for it so a written bid seems a pretty good estimate of it's current value.

 

[237bee]

Insolvency is has 2 measures - total liabilities greater than total assets, or being unable to pay debts when they fall due.

Given the fact that Noades has made a complete pigs ear of running BFC, an administrator would probably do a much better job than him even before the disposal of Griffin Park comes onto the horizon.

 

[Gee Bee]

Insolvency is has 2 measures - total liabilities greater than total assets, or being unable to pay debts when they fall due.

Agreed, but John Mac has even stated that we owe little or any debts apart from the overdraft which is being guaranteed by RN.
Therefore administration would mean RN as almost sole creditor and the person who can select his own administrator. So unless RN agrees to a substantial reduction to certain pennies in the £ a forced sale of GP would almost certainly be ineveitable.

 

[solobee]

I was rewatching an old club video last night ("The Bees Inside Out") on which RN was asked why he bought the club. He replied one of his reasons was because the" club was reasonably financially solvent, which is unusual". Didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[abee]

Agreed, but John Mac has even stated that we owe little or any debts apart from the overdraft which is being guaranteed by RN.

As at May 31 2002 creditors falling due within one year totalled £5,889,798 of which the bank overdraft was £3,842,123. That means the creditors other than Barclays Bank totalled £2,047,675. On top of that you have to add the £1,300,000 owed to GPS (a Doug Miller controlled company and payable in 2006 or the sale of GP whichever comes first).

Thus by my reckoning we had creditors other than Barclays Bank totalling £3,347,675 and I doubt very much if the situation has changed that much.

 

[Mr Cynical]

So who are these other creditors? And would they demand their money back if we were in administration? Or do they include loans from directors etc? Presumably Bees United would be regarded as a creditor now given their loan to the club in return for a place on the board....

 

[solobee]

On top of that you have to add the £1,300,000 owed to GPS (a Doug Miller controlled company and payable in 2006 or the sale of GP whichever comes first).

Thus by my reckoning we had creditors other than Barclays Bank totalling £3,347,675 and I doubt very much if the situation has changed that much.

[/B]

I maybe wrong but don't we owe RN and another £250,000 each as well,payable in 2006/sale of GP. Thereby making a total debt of £1.8 million repayable in 2006.

 

[abee]

I maybe wrong but don't we owe RN and another £250,000 each as well,payable in 2006/sale of GP. Thereby making a total debt of £1.8 million repayable in 2006.

We owe Altonwood and John Herting £250,000 each payable on demand and these amounts are included in the other liabilities total posted above. The other liabilities includes all creditors as at 31 May 2002 with the exception of Barclays which I stripped out for the purposes of the post. The Altonwood/Herting loans are shown as payable within twelve months but I believe that they have agreed not to make formal demand for repayment pending resolution of the Griffin Park problem. I have full files on all of Noades/Hargraves statements, rants, contradictions etc but don't have time to look this particular one up right now.

 

[Sweepy]

As things stand, i'm so sick and tired of all this I am prepared to be nicked and banned from matches to protest against him.

He should be writing off some of these debts he has criminally inflicted on us. Under no previous chairmen have we lost almost £40,000 per week.

 

[solobee]

We owe Altonwood and John Herting £250,000 each payable on demand and these amounts are included in the other liabilities total posted above. The other liabilities includes all creditors as at 31 May 2002 with the exception of Barclays which I stripped out for the purposes of the post. The Altonwood/Herting loans are shown as payable within twelve months but I believe that they have agreed not to make formal demand for repayment pending resolution of the Griffin Park problem. I have full files on all of Noades/Hargraves statements, rants, contradictions etc but don't have time to look this particular one up right now.

Thanks for the info. I stand corrected.

 

[solobee]

Have now had a chance to read stuff on JTofBFC's link re administration (well worth a read). It appears to go into administration either a creditor is threatening to wind up the company or there are o/s legal actions. Don't know if any of above apply.
Agree would be nice to have a list of other creditors apart from bank. Presumeably of the £2,047,675 ,£250K each to Altonwood and another director. What about other £1.5 million?

If go into administration what is status of RN's monies lodged at Bank?