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GlasgowBee
Only posting for "likes" or so they say!
Administration
no offence taken...its good to talk, debate and chew the cud...we all want the same thing
Administration
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no offence taken...its good to talk, debate and chew the cud...we all want the same thing
Carri Bee Un
The Most Esteemed and Very Reverend
Administration
A little bit of googling www.clubsincrisis.com Leicester and Rotherham don't own their grounds.
Rotherham can **** right off as well.
OP
OP
GlasgowBee
Only posting for "likes" or so they say!
Administration
http://www.football-research.org/hope/hope-appendix3.htm
doing the google thing too, and this lot have survived...whether they owned the ground is debateable...did qpr own loftus road?
doing the google thing too, and this lot have survived...whether they owned the ground is debateable...did qpr own loftus road?
Edmundo
Whinging pom
Administration
QPR may be the best example of a club going into administration and not losing its ground. However, it was sold to a very dodgy businessman and saddled with a £10m debt on which it pays interest at 10% pa as the price of avoiding the sale of its asset. Yes, they are doing better than us at the moment, but that is pretty much entirely down to the fact that they get something like three times as many paying customers through the gate each matchday and they have proper corporate hospitality facilities.
Carri Bee Un
The Most Esteemed and Very Reverend
Administration
The dodgy loan is secured against loftus road. Someday there'll be a small part of west London that will be forever panama.
Carri Bee Un
The Most Esteemed and Very Reverend
Administration
OI. Infraction for Carri. Less of the serious posts from you
I only come in the moody old threads like this if the last poster name is certain people. you are now on my blacklist :computer:
Carri Bee Un
The Most Esteemed and Very Reverend
Administration
That's why I've included it. I consider it a "live" debt, as should anyone with shares in GPSL. Doesn't Martin Lange own 40 odd percent?
1) It is a "debt" of BFC Ltd and as such is fully repayable at some time in the future (and certainly upon any sale of Griffin Park) to the GPS shareholders. If BU chooses to waive its 60% then that is a decision for its members and in that event there would probably be very serious tax considerations. Martin Lange has I believe 25% of the shares which he has undoubtedly noted are worth around £330k as and when Griffin Park is sold.......which after all we are advised is the only game in town. Try telling ML and the other minority shareholders that this debt is not repayable 'cos er.........BU has so decided.
2) The loan is secured by a charge on Griffin Park Stadium.
3) The 2006 audited accounts are already late and we can have a look at them when they arrive. We should (I suggest) be speaking just about the BFC accounts.....what BU does in the consolidation doesn't bother me at this stage but I suspect that although they argue that they would never want their monies back (so that's alright then...) my judgement would be that in the event of a Griffin Park sale then they would certainly be wanting their loans back from the net proceeds in order that they have a war chest for the new stadium go-around.
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Bigbee
Well-known member
Carri Bee Un
The Most Esteemed and Very Reverend
mhead bee
Well-known member
RoyalOakBee
Active member
Administration
When are the next BU elections cos you would get my vote just for that statement! More like you GB.
SmiffyBee
A Beautiful Lie
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RoyalOakBee
Active member
Administration
Not been to Loftus Road since I used to sell hamburgers there in the 80's when Brentford were away so was just wondering if Brian Burgess or anybody else on the Stadium Committee could remind me if there is a Mono Rail or a Hotel or a Leisure Centre somewhere in the South Africa Road Development?
OP
OP
GlasgowBee
Only posting for "likes" or so they say!
Administration
When are the next BU elections cos you would get my vote just for that statement! More like you GB.
Why thank you kind sir (I'm guessing its sir and not madam), however I think most on here would disagree with your sentiment, thinking 450 miles away is 450 miles too close for most
It has certainly clarified a few points this discussion, re the joys of administration and the use of assets...
Thanks to all who have increased my knowledge
SpiderBee
Surrey Wyvern
Administration
Not been to Loftus Road since I used to sell hamburgers there in the 80's when Brentford were away so was just wondering if Brian Burgess or anybody else on the Stadium Committee could remind me if there is a Mono Rail or a Hotel or a Leisure Centre somewhere in the South Africa Road Development?
The subtle difference between QPR and us is that, since 1967, they have had the wherewithall and the personnel to go forward as a club. Loftus Road has changed dramatically since the sixties and is now regarded as a fine compact ground capable of housing Premiership football. Their success since the sixties has, generally, been progressive, thanks to go ahead chairmen, and boards in the past. They are used to playing at a higher level. We saw the mismanagement during our one season at the second level and I feel, as a club, we have been a little scared of progress at GP, on the field, despite the fans wanting/demanding such success. At the risk of repeating myself, again, we could provide a similar facility as at QPR, gradually, at GP that can house Championship football and, I still feel, that this is the way to go. I agree with the ideals of a new stadium but, knowing Brentford FC in the past, and looking at what we have running the club presently with the debts, it simply wont happen, short of a major benefactor coming on board or all of the LBH housing benefits being re-directed to BFC, of which both are...ahem...most unlikely.
Redevelop GP bit by bit!! After all, it has already started!
In my heart of hearts, I know I will NEVER see Brentford FC in the Premiership before I die!
Administration
Firstly we must be assuming that any administration would be volunatary assuming the VAT and tax man are fully up todate and won't be forcing a winding up order, which was the case for most of the other clubs mentioned.
Our debt is in the main owed to individuals or BU, and some of those individuals have loaned funds for a period of time, which at present are not due, I think 2009 has been mentioned in some cases. BU are owed somewhere north of a £1m and its members are not likley to seek that back just yet either, are they. Therefore the loans to Barclays, which os a repayment loan over 15 years, is I assume being met, so what part of the debt is actually due now. I suggest our worry would be in 2009 and beyond when some monies become due, so why would these very individuals that sit on the board and have loaned money until a future date, want to appoint an administrator now?. You end up paying extortionate fees fees to administrators who then tell you that you can't have your money back anyway as you have already signed a deal to be paid back in the future.
Or the Administrator resructure debt, so they may even try and persuade some of the loanees to take less in teh £ now!! So again why would they want that, when they can sit and wait and get more chance of its full return at a later date? Administration suits some, because of the pursuant creditors, Leicester & Bradford owed third parties much transfer income and had players on huge wages that is what in the main forced their hands. Brentford have neither and so is a completely different story.
Our debt is in the main owed to individuals or BU, and some of those individuals have loaned funds for a period of time, which at present are not due, I think 2009 has been mentioned in some cases. BU are owed somewhere north of a £1m and its members are not likley to seek that back just yet either, are they. Therefore the loans to Barclays, which os a repayment loan over 15 years, is I assume being met, so what part of the debt is actually due now. I suggest our worry would be in 2009 and beyond when some monies become due, so why would these very individuals that sit on the board and have loaned money until a future date, want to appoint an administrator now?. You end up paying extortionate fees fees to administrators who then tell you that you can't have your money back anyway as you have already signed a deal to be paid back in the future.
Or the Administrator resructure debt, so they may even try and persuade some of the loanees to take less in teh £ now!! So again why would they want that, when they can sit and wait and get more chance of its full return at a later date? Administration suits some, because of the pursuant creditors, Leicester & Bradford owed third parties much transfer income and had players on huge wages that is what in the main forced their hands. Brentford have neither and so is a completely different story.
blunstone
Active member
Administration
good thinking and I see where you are coming from glasgow bee but the very last resort inho.
noades and co won't take a % in the £, although IR, NI and Vat (now part of IR) sometimes will. And the moment an Adminstrator is appointed he/they must be paid and they are usually a major form of accountants or consultants like Price Waterhouse, and they start their bill running at £250+ an hour..... that will soon add another £150,000 to the debts. Plus expenses are recharges.
Those few directors with any clout won't want to be associated with a club in admin so Greg and co will be off pdq. And he really is a good guy.
If we go into admion it maye take a year or more to sort out so we could well lose poiunts next season also - like Rotherham this term.
The biggest mistake we made was not ground sharing when QPR were in big trouble too. Is it too late?
noades and co won't take a % in the £, although IR, NI and Vat (now part of IR) sometimes will. And the moment an Adminstrator is appointed he/they must be paid and they are usually a major form of accountants or consultants like Price Waterhouse, and they start their bill running at £250+ an hour..... that will soon add another £150,000 to the debts. Plus expenses are recharges.
Those few directors with any clout won't want to be associated with a club in admin so Greg and co will be off pdq. And he really is a good guy.
If we go into admion it maye take a year or more to sort out so we could well lose poiunts next season also - like Rotherham this term.
The biggest mistake we made was not ground sharing when QPR were in big trouble too. Is it too late?
rebus
On my final warning
Administration
But you have missed the point, as the very people that will volunteer administration are the main board, all of whom either by representation or personally are the people owed a main bulk of the money. Why would they want to volunteer adminisration and reduce their chances of getting all their money back? Administration imho is not an option in the circumstances that surround the BFC debt. Especially as they have an asset that outways the sums owed. The target must be to stabalize the debts size and probably re-stucture again when/if the GP developments start bringing extra income.
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
Administration
I think that the rule of thumb is that you work out what Ron Noades wants to do, and then try not to do it. How would administration help Ron Noades.