Are BU the Problem?

[Baz Bee]

There are loads of posts about sacking Wally and sacking the Board.

Well you could certainly sack Wally but there will always be a Board. It is the composition and membership of the Board that can be changed. And surely that is what is needed?

BU may well be the saviours of the club. But that will be sometime in the next couple of years. Stirling work so far cannot be disputed. However, their reps on the Board are really not up for the job in hand. There is more to running a football club than saving and making money. You need to make a success of the business as well.

BFC's business is a football team. Like any business the product needs to be what the customer wants. Clearly our team is not what I, and I suggest the majority of supporters, wants. We have some good sound individual players but as a team they are dire! Unfortunately we could have been comfortably in the play off places on the basis of the other teams I have seen this season. So how do you change the product? Change who manufactures it and/or the ingredients. Well, on the basis that I consider the ingredients are basically sound it is he who puts them together that has got it wrong. So what can we do?

Change the producer of the product. Who has the power to do that? The Board members. Now I accept that at the end of the day Noades puppet may well pull the strings. However, the BU reps on the Board could easily say that they do not agree with what the manager is doing and how HIS team are performing. But what do we get? Wishy washy words of support. So on the basis that they are representing BU views on the Board; it is clearly the view of BU that the manger is not an issue and is doing OK!! Well on that basis I can no longer support BU.

If anyone who believes that Downes is sending our club in to a downward spiral continues to support BU they are supporting the regime that is perpetuating his employment as manager. IF BU do not support Downes what the hell are the BU reps on the Board doing and saying?

So, IMO, it is about time that BU came out and said whether they believe that our present situation could have been addressed in a more positive manner by a change of manager. John Mac, etc may be a nice blokes but are they really representing BU views on the Board? I would probably think not. So why the hell are they on there then? We need positive and decisive action from BU Board members and during the pat few weeks and months we have seen little in that respect as far as generating a successful team is concerned.

BU seems to have lost sight of the big picture whilst concentrating on finances and existing and new stadium developments. Well when we are struggling in Div 3 next season the finances will be in an even dire situation and a new ground pointless.

BU get sorted this week, before it really is too late!

 

[Simon C]

Or get somone onto the Board who has the experience of running a football club and will make the football decisions.

 

[keefor]

I thought that by chucking in £50 000 per director BU would have some influence on the decision making process and be able to steer BFC towards a more positive future.

The fact that we are in the position we are and the amount of comment that this generates leads me to thinking that there must be one of two scenarios here:

1. The BU directors do not have and have had no real influence on the decisions that are being made. They effectively have little power or control on the situation we are in. They do however feel that they have to provide a unified front with 'the club'.

If this scenario is true I feel that we have been misled as to the benefits of allocating a considerable sum of money that has been raised from the goodwill of the fans.

2. The BU directors do not believe that there is a crisis in the playing side and management of the club.

If this scenario is true I believe that at best they are misguided. At worst they are not up to the job and are both blind to what is going on and deaf to critical comments.



FWIW I think that the idea of BU was/is good. It just hasn't appeared to live up to the ideal (as yet?).

We need to be told in clear and direct terms what is going on, we need transparency and we perhaps need some difficult decisions to be made.

If (when?) we are relegated I cannot see us coming back up. We haven't got a big physical team to compete with Div 3 football.

Unlike last time we haven't got our favourite white haired uncle to buy us out of that division. We won't have money to get us to be one of the best 3 teams which will be harder to achieve than being one of the worst 4 teams in Div 2.

I fully understand the need to cut costs and run the club in a financially prudent manner. Achieving this is pointless if we cannot retain Div 2 status. Both targets are equally important. IMO achieving one without the other spells the end of the club albeit in along drawn out fashion.

Can we please have some full and frank comments from the club regarding the situation?

 

[Claire]

are they the problem? NO!

 

[Mulitinovic]

Or get somone onto the Board who has the experience of running a football club and will make the football decisions.

That director of football recruitment drive seems a long time ago now...

 

[Simon C]

That director of football recruitment drive seems a long time ago now...

It makes even more sense with hindsight doesn't it?

 

[Mr Cynical]

I seem to remember the Director of football suggestion was ridiculed by people on this board. The problem with the club is not Bees United. Without Bees United I'm quite convinced we probably wouldn't have a club anymore.

The problem with the club at the moment is that it is restricted in what it can do by the actions of the previous regime, and subsequently by the influence that the previous regime obviously must still have being the major shareholder.

People talk about getting someone in who knows football finances, yet we have managed to break even this season against all odds. There were some who didn't think we'd make it to Christmas. I think people are getting carried away by asking to sack the board. Sack Wally, yes, but let BU get on with the sterling work they've done so far, it was always going to be a steep learning curve and they were bound to get some decisions wrong (as I believe they have with Wally) yet they are our best hope for the future and as such should still receive our support..

 

[Bigbee]

FFS

BU is keeping the club alive,dont draw them into Board issues unless you want to talk about a gutless ex BU member appointed to the board to represent us who takes a salary whilst PJ and the others continue to raise funds,and he decides to keep Downes...

this is now personal

 

[Luton Bee]

Re: FFS

a gutless ex BU member appointed to the board to represent us

Anyone confim this?

 

[CJC]

Or get somone onto the Board who has the experience of running a football club and will make the football decisions.

I don't know if I speak for anyone else but I wanted professional football people running the club and a supporter's trust overseeing them. Obviously we have no money so this hasn't been able to happen, but I hope everyone else sees this as the way forward, being able to afford to do the above quote and take the club forward.

Anyone confim this?

Hey it's getting interesting again!!! Anyone confirm this.

 

[Bigbee]

Re: Re: FFS

Anyone confim this?

no sorry ,hes still there ,Get off Ricko ! stop doing that in front of me

 

[PJ]

Re: Re: FFS

Anyone confim this?

Luton - this is the GPG. Its the equivalent of Bees fans News of the World, except on a daily/hourly basis.
It would be a full-time job for anyone to respond to all the (for want of a better phrase) "chit chat" that goes on in these threads.
A lot of it is misinformation/gossip or garbage (ring as preferred). Not all of it, but alot of it (IMHO)

 

[Baz Bee]

The problem with the club at the moment is that it is restricted in what it can do by the actions of the previous regime, and subsequently by the influence that the previous regime obviously must still have being the major shareholder.

That may well be the case but it is the BU Board member who is actively supporting the current manager in the Chronicle. If their hands are tied do not pro actively support the present fiasco manger.:sad: :sad:

 

[Baz Bee]

That may well be the case but it is the BU Board member who is actively supporting the current manager in the Chronicle. If their/his hands are tied do not pro actively support the present fiasco manger.:sad: :sad:

 

[Bigbee]

from another thread

Originally posted by Silly Chip
IMO.....If we get relegated John Mac. should step down. Is our record 2 wins in 19 games?....... very poor show.....what makes our Board feel that Wally can turn it around? Relegation will break a lot of fans hearts and how much goodwill to Bees United will be lost?


why wait untill we get relegated ? As far as Im concerned the whole lot can go now.The information that some fans have over the way the club has been run is damning in it self.The completely bizarre decison to keep employed the worst manager in BFC'S history is a seperate issue.Maybe they want to be part of history,on the board when we went down ? We should call an EGM and ask them all to resign before information being with held is published



So now its clarified by PJ we have three nominated BU members on the BFC board, how as BEES FANS can they NOT want Downes out ? .If nothing is changed how can these three show their faces at GP again ?

 

[gj]

BU a nice idea that didnt work

 

[Mr Cynical]

BU a nice idea that didnt work

With respect that's absolute rubbish!! How long have they been going? Alright we're having problems on the pitch but BU have managed to turn around a precarious financial situation to one where we have managed to break even and are now looking to take the club from Noades' hands (something we've all wanted for some time). If they can secure the majority shareholding whilst persuading Noades to pay off some (if not all) of the debt that he is responsible for then I suggest that they should be regarded as heroes.

It is an incredibly difficult job to run a football club, especially one that has been teetering on the brink of disaster for so long, and mistakes are bound to be made. I personally think they have made a huge mistake in backing Wally, he should have gone long ago. However, this does not mean that BU are useless far from it, they have done an awful lot of good for this club and will continue to do so, as long as they have the fans support. If we drive them out then where would we be? Imagine that, Brentford, first club managed by their own fans to be destroyed by their own fans. Great stuff!

 

[King Bee]

With respect that's absolute rubbish!! How long have they been going? Alright we're having problems on the pitch but BU have managed to turn around a precarious financial situation to one where we have managed to break even and are now looking to take the club from Noades' hands (something we've all wanted for some time). If they can secure the majority shareholding whilst persuading Noades to pay off some (if not all) of the debt that he is responsible for then I suggest that they should be regarded as heroes.

It is an incredibly difficult job to run a football club, especially one that has been teetering on the brink of disaster for so long, and mistakes are bound to be made. I personally think they have made a huge mistake in backing Wally, he should have gone long ago. However, this does not mean that BU are useless far from it, they have done an awful lot of good for this club and will continue to do so, as long as they have the fans support. If we drive them out then where would we be? Imagine that, Brentford, first club managed by their own fans to be destroyed by their own fans. Great stuff!

Well said Mr Cynical:yes:

 

[Brickie Chap]

I would second that

 

[casual]

Whoever thinks that BU are the problem with Brentford is a ****ing idiot they are doing the best they can to try and help the club.

 

[West Wilts Bee]

BU the problem.

What utter bolloxs BU are good for this club, the only trouble is they should have been formed ten years ago. If every bees fan joined bu the job would be a lot easier. I dont agree with them about keeping Downes on, but then it's not a perfect world. It's the fans that will make BU , so why not support them.

 

[glorybee]

As BU have not taken over the control of BFC yet, could it be that BU are not allowed to sack Wally.If so, this would explain a lot
Glorybee

 

[Lokster]

No Bees United are not the problem with Brentford.

The problem with Brentford is decades of under investment, followed by the antics of Ron 'Loads of Money - But Not Mine' Noades.

I do think that they could have moved to get assistance from someone who knows more about running a football club but then when they tried Wally got his knickers in a twist.

Perhaps, in retrospect, Wally might have wished they had got some support - for his benefit as well as theirs.

 

[IsleofWight_Bee]

Totally agree West Wilts but then the people who make the most noise (with a couple of exceptions I can think off) are in my opinion just Internet Warriors who get off in stirring things up and offering quick fixes to our many problems. The people who keep slagging off John Mac can have no real idea of his contribution to BFC

Don't get me wrong, I want Downes to go, his style of play is not what I pay good money to see but, I have to accept that the board have made a decision (for reasons best known to themselves) to stick with him. If we avoid the drop great, if we don't then surely he has to go.

Div3 is becoming a reality and its ironic that it was Noades taking on the management and spending, what is now our debt, that got us out..the rest is history and pretty painful too.

My real concern is that, although the club may break even, there will be no money available to spend on the thing we've needed for the last 2 years - 2 good strikers. If we go down we wont get them and a long stay in Div3 is just not on. I'm sure the board are well aware that our long term future cannot include a long stay in the basement.

Anyway we're not doomed yet, lets get behind the lads on Saturday, on what is the first of many real battles to come.

Long live Brentford FC

 

[Pauly Paul]

Is the setup within BU similar to that at members clubs like FC Barcelona? The members there elect presidents who bring in financial backing. I know no one is queueing up to take over BU but if they were would we operate a similar policy?

 

[CJC]

The people who keep slagging off John Mac can have no real idea of his contribution to BFC

True, however to support Wally Downes in such a way as he has in the Chronicle worries me, and a lot of the more supportive people for the board when others have criticised.

Is the setup within BU similar to that at members clubs like FC Barcelona? The members there elect presidents who bring in financial backing. I know no one is queueing up to take over BU but if they were would we operate a similar policy?

PJ can you answer this? I wouldn't know, though I would like to think once we get our hands on the club we can change things with the way BFC is run, so put in place elections for the Chairmanship and so on. What do the Barcelona chairmen get financially from their position, or rather what would they get if it were a currently smaller club like BFC (i can imagine with a club like that the business contacts created from the position would be worth millions). I bet I get picked up on the smaller bit, there's no reason our club can't become a challenger for European places in the long-term future if we get a new stadium, especially if the ****ing bastard scum ****ing f****m can

 

[Baz Bee]

So can it be accepted then that all BU members, or the majority at least, support their Board reps in actively and publicly saying that they do not think the managers performance is an issue? So when he takes us down after 18 months of totally incapable management they will not criticise in the least. Well, I'm not too sure how that sits with your “Wally Must Go Now” signature Casual!! After all, it is only John Mac who has been quoted on more than one occassion in the Chronicle and elsewhere that he is not concerned about our predicament or the ability of our manager.

BU have great aspirations, that cannot be disputed. They have tireless and selfless people working on their behalf. But those attributes alone are just not good enough. You can get upset at criticism, but the facts speak for themselves: BU in their naivety were suckered by Noades when he made the option offer. They took over a burden that they should never have agreed to. And now they are taking our club back towards a black hole where all the financial savings made and future projections will be lost overnight. They re-appointed a manager who for the last half of the 2002/2003 season had us in relegation freefall mode. They have presided over that manager now taking us to the abyss of relegation and all we get are mealy mouth words of support rather than addressing the problem. I know, I use the word “they” when it is not really BU but the Board that are responsible for these matters. However, as far as I can see it is the BU Board members who are the executive directors responsible for the day to day management and organisation of the club. And it is John Mac who is actively “supporting” the manager who has given us the worse set of results of any in recent history.

Can someone please post up John Mac's CV so we can see why he should enjoy this undying and never critical adulation that a voiciferous number seem to have for him?

Our financial problems will escalate tremendously when we get relegated. Supporters will become disillusioned and income will decrease dramatically. It could, and may still with luck, be avoided, if the Board (and particularly the BU Board members) act and sack the present inept managerial incumbent. But sadly I believe we are in for the big drop because when a big decision is needed I consider it has been ignored.

Bucket. Sand. Ostrich.

:sad: :sad:

 

[Bigbee]

Is the setup within BU similar to that at members clubs like FC Barcelona? The members there elect presidents who bring in financial backing. I know no one is queueing up to take over BU but if they were would we operate a similar policy?

Didnt we have this option last year ?

 

[JBN]

I don't believe the problem is with BU.

They are a group of people that have never run a football club who are running a football club.

Some of the communication could be improved, i.e our current situation on the pitch, however, they are attempting to wean BFC of the life support that is the bank and get us up on our own two feet.

Not an easy job when you consider that the club has been financially raped on several occasions.

The down side is, the club is being half run by the fans, fans who have no eperience of running a football club. There is a learning curve and it is a big one. Perhaps one or two more experienced business heads should be bought in?

It would be good to get a communication out the club regarding their views on our current on pitch/managerial situation, but I won't hold my breath.

 

[Boston Bee]

Yes. And no. I agree that there is a massive learning-curve; that running a football club is at least slightly unique in business.

However, long-time readers here will know that due to a lack of humility or simply an inability to get along BU and our board ignored and/or alienated two ideal "experienced business heads".

I'm not qualified to run Brentford, and I'm honest with myself about it. Have these members of the board ben pro-active as they could and should have been about seeking the intellectual resources at their disposal?

The down side is, the club is being half run by the fans, fans who have no eperience of running a football club. There is a learning curve and it is a big one. Perhaps one or two more experienced business heads should be bought in?

 

[Baz Bee]

I don't believe the problem is with BU.

They are a group of people that have never run a football club who are running a football club.

Some of the communication could be improved, i.e our current situation on the pitch, however, they are attempting to wean BFC of the life support that is the bank and get us up on our own two feet.

Not an easy job when you consider that the club has been financially raped on several occasions.

The down side is, the club is being half run by the fans, fans who have no eperience of running a football club. There is a learning curve and it is a big one. Perhaps one or two more experienced business heads should be bought in?

It would be good to get a communication out the club regarding their views on our current on pitch/managerial situation, but I won't hold my breath.

No disputing that, but the sad fact is that it is not rocket science to look at how the managers performance since November 2002 has been abysmal. Your contract is terminated are not or should not be words difficult for our Board to mutter towards Mr Downes.
Surely?

Whilst I agree that the finacial implications of such a decision could have been expensive a month or two ago, the consequences now are irrelevent. Four months left on his contract is not too much a burden to carry and must be worth a punt against what presently looks like inevitable relegation being staved off.

 

[Lokster]

I also can't believe that the financial consquences of sacking Wally are comparable with those of Brentford dropping into Division Three.

 

[JBN]

I also can't believe that the financial consquences of sacking Wally are comparable with those of Brentford dropping into Division Three.

Can't disagree with that.

The trouble is we see BU as running the club, which they don't.

It has been said before, but Saturdays result is vital, If we loose and there is no official statement from the Board, then fans will start voting with their wallets.

Not just stop going to the games, withdrawl of standing orders and BU membership. The feelings are that strong and the Board need to ease the fans worries otherwise there will be no BFC to save.

It is all very well saying if you were real fans you wouldn't pull the plug, but if you bang you head against a wall long enough, it hurts and you stop, you don't keep doing it.

 

[Russell]

It has been said before, but Saturdays result is vital, If we loose and there is no official statement from the Board, then fans will start voting with their wallets.

Not just stop going to the games, withdrawl of standing orders and BU membership. The feelings are that strong and the Board need to ease the fans worries otherwise there will be no BFC to save.

It is all very well saying if you were real fans you wouldn't pull the plug, but if you bang you head against a wall long enough, it hurts and you stop, you don't keep doing it.

I dare say it's hard enough to get people to do a standing order to BU, drop money into buckets and renew a season ticket. It's gonna be almost fecking impossible to get them to start again if they stop.

 

[-superbees2k3-]

Got a few mates interested now, and the 4-5 of us will be ordering ST's for the first tiem next season, as well as new shirts

Pat on the back please

 

[King Bee]

Got a few mates interested now, and the 4-5 of us will be ordering ST's for the first tiem next season, as well as new shirts

Pat on the back please

well done:banana: :bound:

:beer: - if you're old enough to that is!

 

[Baz Bee]

Nothing yesterday changed my view. BU have the power to either sack Downes through their Board reps or give us an explanation why they cannot. For weeks we have deserved one or the other. What do we get mealy mouth words from John Mac. Well John the four points adrift and one match remaining may well be 18 points adrift and 5 games remaining.

You have treated us all with contempt and it is a disgrace. You were suppose to preside over the finest hour that OUR club has seen. The fans running it. What have you done? Not run it but ruined it! Do we get any explanatuion - the hell we do. :sad: :sad: