BIAS Dossier

[abee]

Hello...........anyone from BIAS out there........earth calling BIAS..........

It's life but not as we know it...........

 

[Bee H]

abee, depends whether BIAS are really angry about the cock-ups and lies that were told - or whether they're all friends again and don't really want the boat rocked anymore.



S'pose it would help if we'd all been kept informed by BU of exactly what is happening re Lionel Road, New Road/GP improvements, the position with Noad€$ and Altonwood etc., etc., etc.

BFC is an old boys Club being run by Mess(e)rs Noad€$ and Waddington, always has been !

 

[Baz Bee]

Well, we knew that our system is out of date and basically crap. We need to implement the installation of a modern efficient system. But hey, f**k the supporters if in the meantime we just have to muddle along. Chaos, who cares? Not our problem if the stupid thick pratts cannot get a ticket or have to queue for hours in the freezing cold.

Anyone fancy another junket to look at another sytem. Hear Dallas Cowboys have a neat one in place. And whilst we are over in that neck of the woods may as well pop down to Rio and see what they use at the Maracanã. Hey Eddie, got the travel agent on the phone wanting to know if First Class is ok as all club class sold out?

Bloody hell, they know the system is sh*t but have no contingency or back up plan to deal with the issues.

I just cannot understand why there have been no sackings at the very top.

I suggest that next season we will not have any red stripes on our shirts as the amount of whitewash being splashed around at the club will have obliterated them!!! :sad:

 

[abee]

Well let me save beezy babe time.

Dear Bias,
Thank you for your dossier which has been consigned to the wastebin.

Lessons have been learned, no one to blame, see no sense in pursuing this and the recent administration changes will ensure that this type of thing will never happen again until the next time.

It's time to draw a line under the unfortunate events and move on but thank you for your interest and support.

Sincerely
Graham Hall (on behalf of Eddie Rogers)

(Note to secretary.........if Eddie pitches up get him to sign this if not I'll do it )

(Note to Mark Chapman.........if you're still around I don't want to see this on the BFC official web site.......okay.......if it gets on there and has to be pulled you're fired......whaddaya mean you're leaving anyway.........nobody tells me anything and I'm a consultant........)



Cheer up Beezy Babe........believe it or not I was young and innocent once.......but when you are an old **** like abee is now you will have got the hang of dealing with mind numbing incompetents desperate to keep their jobs and who surround themselves with............(continues for 109 pages)

 

[Bee H]

it's a small world ................

Anyone fancy another junket to look at another sytem. Hear Dallas Cowboys have a neat one in place. And whilst we are over in that neck of the woods may as well pop down to Rio and see what they use at the Maracanã. Hey Eddie, got the travel agent on the phone wanting to know if First Class is ok as all club class sold out ?

Funny that one Baz Bee, I'm sure that one of my clients had the contract to install the ticket system at Southampton FC - a company called PCS Technology Ltd based in Cookham, Berks.

There, if the Club would like to e-mail me I'll pass on the MD's name and number and hey presto, that's possibly a few bob saved flying to North America eh !

All depends on what Noad€$ and Waddington have to say on the matter though eh !

 

[Ace Face]

I did push Bias to have plans in place to be able to react to the club again breaking the clubs charter. But I get the feeling that a hell of a lot of people have fallen for the latest Altonwood Eddie statement. For me personally that statement has made matters worse as we now have another layer of management treacle, an extra salary committment and incompetent managers given a job for life.

Sorry broke my promise not to comment. I will go back to the world of the private emails.

I would like to say that I agree with Atonwood Eddie and that Noades was just guilty of honest mistakes.

 

[Banana]

Re: it's a small world ................

Funny that one Baz Bee, I'm sure that one of my clients had the contract to install the ticket system at Southampton FC - a company called PCS Technology Ltd based in Cookham, Berks.

There, if the Club would like to e-mail me I'll pass on the MD's name and number and hey presto, that's possibly a few bob saved flying to North America eh !

All depends on what Noad€$ and Waddington have to say on the matter though eh !

You're not keeping up are you.

I remember reading someone - on the club's site I think - that the club went down to see Southampton's system before the 5th round draw.

 

[eghambee]

Re: it's a small world ................

You're not keeping up are you.

I remember reading someone - on the club's site I think - that the club went down to see Southampton's system before the 5th round draw.

Correct!

The club , after 6 months of investigating new ticket systems, have decided to go for the new offering from the current company! (Could be ok , but 6 months!)

Mind you it is now almost 3 weeks since i sent an e-mail about the project, asking such difficult questions like:

Was a specification document drawn up.

Have the process's been agreed by all potential users before the system goes in?

Will everyone be trained before it goes in ? etc etc

System is last thing to go in!!

No response yet. I live in hope.

 

[Bee H]

it's a small world ................

You're not keeping up are you.

I remember reading someone - on the club's site I think - that the club went down to see Southampton's system before the 5th round draw.

Don't have go at me :banana: http://www.bias.org.uk/news_story.php?id=47_0 was published on the day abee and I flew out to watch Monaco play last week

I'm just a little confused about the Toronto business that's all :scratch:

 

[abee]

Re: it's a small world ................

Correct!

The club , after 6 months of investigating new ticket systems, have decided to go for the new offering from the current company! (Could be ok , but 6 months!)

Mind you it is now almost 3 weeks since i sent an e-mail about the project, asking such difficult questions like:

Was a specification document drawn up.

Have the process's been agreed by all potential users before the system goes in?

Will everyone be trained before it goes in ? etc etc

System is last thing to go in!!

No response yet. I live in hope.

Note to secretaries.........send this guy egham bee standard response letter D.......you know the one that thanks him for his interest, letter being studied, appreciate his time etc.........oh that's letter K is it?? What's the difference between letter D and letter K then.........oh right D finishes "Yours sincerely" and K finishes "Very truly yours"..........anyway get one of them off to him today.........how the **** do I know where he lives .......Egham I suppose........send it to him care of Egham and let the Royal Mail sort it out........God do I have to everything around here.........I'm a consultant not a dogsbody..........

 

[eghambee]

Re: it's a small world ................

Note to secretaries.........send this guy egham bee standard response letter D.......you know the one that thanks him for his interest, letter being studied, appreciate his time etc.........oh that's letter K is it?? What's the difference between letter D and letter K then.........oh right D finishes "Yours sincerely" and K finishes "Very truly yours"..........anyway get one of them off to him today.........how the **** do I know where he lives .......Egham I suppose........send it to him care of Egham and let the Royal Mail sort it out........God do I have to everything around here.........I'm a consultant not a dogsbody..........

As i said in my previous note I live in Hope!

 

[beezy babe]

OK, ok, I do have a job to do as well you know...

BIAS received this response from Mr Rogers yesterday.

http://www.bias.org.uk/news_story.php?id=48_0

We will be responding to this letter today in order to urge Mr Rogers to provide us with a more complete response to the points raised in our report. We will also be discussing our next course of action at our meeting on Saturday.

All BIAS members are welcome at this meeting as usual. Alternatively, if anyone would like to comment please email us at [email protected].

 

[Ace Face]

I really can`t understand why Bias didn`t have plans already in place to act.

 

[beezy babe]

We've now written back to Mr Rogers.

http://www.bias.org.uk/news_story.php?id=49_0

 

[abee]

We've now written back to Mr Rogers.

http://www.bias.org.uk/news_story.php?id=49_0

Dear Luke,

Yes. That is my full, complete and only response.

I don't know how many times BIAS has to be told. The BFC management has investigated itself twice and the individuals who made the decisions regarding the ticket allocation and wrote the withdrawn statements posted on the official website have come to the totally independent conclusion on both occasions that they did nothing wrong.

I really wish that we could draw a line under this very minor issue. I have said that it was a shame that some fans could not get to Southampton but hey that's life. Deal with it and get over it.

Surely you must have better things to do. Ron Noades (who incidentally is not a friend of mine and I can hardly recall meeting) warned me about BIAS but I had hoped that your organization would have grown up and moved forward by now.

I consider this correspondence closed and having provided you with the courtesy of one lengthy and detailed letter commenting upon your dossier then.............(continues indignantly for 236 pages)

Yours,

Eddie Rogers
Chairman

 

[Ace Face]

Now we have to give the club a week to acknowledge Lukes letter and then another week to reply.

Can we either act or just accept Altonwood Eddie are unbeatable, but for gawds sake can we do something about it.

I would suggest a evening meeting next week and possibly work for a BU EGM.


Now Mr Trees going to be after me for breaking my silence.

 

[Mr Tree]

Now we have to give the club a week to acknowledge Lukes letter and then another week to reply.

Can we either act or just accept Altonwood Eddie are unbeatable, but for gawds sake can we do something about it.

I would suggest a evening meeting next week and possibly work for a BU EGM.


Now Mr Trees going to be after me for breaking my silence.

if we arranged a meeting, how many people would turn up, do ya reckon? (not a criticism, an honest question)

i'm not after you AF, it's the Silent Majority - they don't like me cos i spoke out

 

[Ace Face]

Your probably right Mr Tree, but I am all for trying and I remember being one of the original five who set up ABeeC and it soon snowballed into the triumph it became.

What is clear is that it will take a group/organisation to communicate to the fans, media, FA and all other avenues.

I am up for helping in anyway.

But what really annoys me are the posters who were screaming blood and have now all gone for a Burton.

 

[Mr Tree]

Your probably right Mr Tree

cool - i didn't even say anything

Ace Face - we need a group/organisation? I'm still confused as to where Bias starts and BU ends.

you can mark me down as a "nay-sayer" - i can only find things wrong with people's plans, i can't work out what we actually should be doing

 

[beezy babe]

Mr Tree - we are totally separate from BU (although obviously we do work closely with them at times). In fact many of the current Committee (myself included) feel very strongly that BIAS should be totally independent of BU so we make sure that we keep it that way.

I am also confused as to why AF thinks we need a group other than BIAS. Perhaps it is because we are not meeting his demands. But then how would we be representing the fans if we acted in the interests of only one of them?

We have published Eddie Rogers response to our report and have asked him to confirm that that is all he is going to say. In the mean time we are also canvassing fans opinions regarding what we should do next. So far AF is the only supporter demanding action right now. If other people feel like this then I suggest that they contact us on [email protected] or PM me. BIAS will act in a well considered measured fashion rather than rushing in screaming and shouting because one fan thinks we should.

 

[stedders]

I would suggest a evening meeting next week and possibly work for a BU EGM.

The issue of a BIAS response was discussed in detail at the last BIAS Committee meeting on 26 February.

The next Committee meeting, all BIAS members are more than welcome to attend, is this coming Saturday, 19 March.

BIAS Meetings

 

[stedders]

I really can`t understand why Bias didn`t have plans already in place to act.

(to repeat my earlier thread) This was discussed at our most recent meeting on 26 February.

The consensus was that it seemed a sensible idea to wait to see exactly what the Club had to say first and then respond accordingly.

Too many variables to make it a worthwhile exercise, in my opinion.

Not enough hours in the day for most of us I'm afraid!

 

[stedders]

'm still confused as to where Bias starts and BU ends.

Do me a favour!

 

[stedders]

But I get the feeling that a hell of a lot of people have fallen for the latest Altonwood Eddie statement.

Who exactly?

 

[Mr Cynical]

BFC is an old boys Club....

Bit like the ol' GPG!!!

 

[Ace Face]

Beezy - Poor posting. I mean`t Bias should arrange a meeting and don`t think for one minute that as one fan my views are the be all and end all. At the end of the day, nothing is going to change at BFC and with the lack of any real sustained willingness to force change by BEES fans. Maybe we should just enjoy the foorball while we keep MA.

 

[Luton Bee]

Beezy - Poor posting. I mean`t Bias should arrange a meeting

The meeting is on Saturday Bish, as beezy has already posted:

We will also be discussing our next course of action at our meeting on Saturday.

All BIAS members are welcome at this meeting as usual. Alternatively, if anyone would like to comment please email us at [email protected].

 

[Mr Tree]

Do me a favour!

:nutty:

 

[Edmundo]

The meeting is on Saturday Bish, as beezy has already posted:

What Bish meant was that the meeting hadn't been arranged for his convenience, but for everyone else's!

 

[abee]

We have published Eddie Rogers response to our report and have asked him to confirm that that is all he is going to say.

Hi doctor beezy babe ,

I see that the BIAS letters to the BFC chairman are now addressed rather coldly to "Mr Rogers" rather than the earlier matey "Eddie".

Do we next week move on to Dear Sir and then To Whom It May Concern......I think we should be told........

 

[eghambee]

I have suddenly realised why the communication is so poor at BFC.

Mr Rogers must read the GPG.

He has therefore come to the conclusion that most supporters have the same surname 'Bee' and therefore they must be related and therefore only one person needs to hear about something and they will tell they're relatives.

It is all becoming clearer.

 

[Ace Face]

I think you will find that evening meetings are much more convenient for fans than sats due to child care etc. We never had any NO TO WOKING and public ABeeC Meetings on a Saturday.

But it is all pointless anyway as there is no willingness to force change anyway. I am just blooming glad I didn`t take out a loan note to fund this lot.

 

[Ace Face]

On a different note.

Can Bias put pressure on BU to demand an answer from BFC, as they allegedly have four directors on the BFC Board?

 

[Edmundo]

I think you will find that evening meetings are much more convenient for fans than sats due to child care etc. We never had any NO TO WOKING and public ABeeC Meetings on a Saturday.

I think you'll find that with so many Bees fans not living near to Brentford, evening meetings are inconvenient. Saturdays are match days and therefore it is not unreasonable to suppose that fans can get to TW8, perhaps a little earlier than usual, but they would be coming anyway.

ABeeC was slightly different in that candidates had to live in the area anyway and canvassing etc is a weekday evening activity - as that's when you find people at home.

Anyway, as I said - it's not convenient for you, so it's obviously wrong as BIAS should be organised around your convenience!

 

[Les Beeavinu]

We could do it online via a GPG forum Mind you, people would have to promise not to get uppity if views differed.

 

[Ace Face]

I think Bias already know my views and it isn`t to keep on with the Dear Eddie`s.

An idea for the less militant BEES fan is some sort of online petition or letter template to send to BFC to pressurise for answers?

 

[Mr Tree]

I have suddenly realised why the communication is so poor at BFC.

Mr Rogers must read the GPG.

He has therefore come to the conclusion that most supporters have the same surname 'Bee' and therefore they must be related and therefore only one person needs to hear about something and they will tell they're relatives.

It is all becoming clearer.

is this why i miss out on so much

 

[JoeBourke]

Ace Face,

As noted in the club statement, the enquiry into the ticketing problems for the Southampton away tie was undertaken by the Chairman with the assistance of non-executive directors not involved with the decisions, including the two non-executive BU representatives on the board, who have the advantage of direct access to both club staff and relevant documents.

The BU reps on the BFC board are consequently, far better positioned to assess the underlying issues at the club than other members of the BU board or any other outside party, for that matter. The conclusions have since been published on the club’s website.

As a consequence of the inquiry and recommendations from the Bees United board a new CEO is to be appointed.

A PR and communications director has also been appointed. Public relations is an important aspect of the clubs activities and particularly following the appointment of a new director with this specific remit, I feel it would be in the interests of the club to leave communication and public statements on club matters to the people with the factual knowledge and direct responsibility for these tasks.

Insofar as the organisation of Bees United and its relationship with the BFC board is concerned we are in the process of conducting a review.

So that BU is able to take on board as wide a range of views of possible, I would urge any fans that have not yet done so, to log on at the link below and register your views by the cut-off date of March 18.

http://www.beesunited.org.uk/news/2005/review090305.html

 

[Mr Tree]

An idea for the less militant BEES fan is some sort of online petition or letter template to send to BFC to pressurise for answers?

Just so we're all clear on this - what answers do you want, exactly? I think if you just make a sweeping "i want answers!!!" statement, they'll argue that they've issued their statement and the matter is settled...

 

[Ace Face]

Joe - I think you have lost touch with reality and more importantly members views if you think this refusal to answer the points raised by Bias is acceptable. If you wanted to look at improving PR that would be a giant first step.

If you were to put the dossier in front of BU members I am confident that 99% would say that BFC should reply fully to the points raised. Then by all means move on to a full blown communications revolution.

The crux of the matter is that fans I believe don`t like the idea of being lied to by the BFC Board and until their questions are answered, everything spewing out from the now 3 man communication team will be treated with contempt.

Joe this is a bottle job and you shouldn`t try and cover for those in power without the backbone to answer the fans. eg: Cancelling the Fans Forum.

 

[Ace Face]

Mr Tree - Simply the questions raised in the Bias Dossier. I am at work, so can`t go trawling through to copy and paste.

I also get the impression that the Bias committee aren`t satisfied either, so don`t think it is me just banging on about openness and transparency.

 

[abee]

.........including the two non-executive BU representatives on the board, who have the advantage of direct access to both club staff and relevant documents.

The BU reps on the BFC board are consequently, far better positioned to assess the underlying issues at the club than other members of the BU board or any other outside party, for that matter. The conclusions have since been published on the club’s website.

Joe, I take it that the two non-executive BU representatives on the board to whom you refer are Andrew Wainwright and Graham Hall.

But according to Eddie Rogers recent statement "John Mac relinquished his Executive role for day to day management last June............"

If John Mac is concentrating on the new stadium why on earth would he need to be Executive anyway.

Is he still an Executive director and if so why????????

Thank you.......

 

[JoeBourke]

Ace Face,

I am aware that BIAS have written requesting a specific response to the recommendations in the report they have submitted to the club, and I believe they are right to do so.

The Bees United survey is open now to all fans and presents an opportunity for anyone to have their say on what happens in the future. This is how we keep in touch with reality and more importantly members views in addition to feedback from info points, direct communications to the trust and members meetings.

One of the options for improving communucations is regular fans forums throughout the season with the BFC board. Why not highlight this as one of your preferred choices for improving matters? If enough fans do so, then this will come about.

 

[JoeBourke]

abee,

without getting into semantics, I think the more important issue is whether we as the supporters trust remain comfortable with our representatives on the BFC board undertaking executive roles within the club, whether broadly based or with a specific remit.

This again is a subject covered in the survey and a matter on which the BU board will be informed by the responses received.

 

[Brickie Chap]

Can no one from either BFC or BU answer a simple question these days rofl

 

[Mr Tree]

Mr Tree - Simply the questions raised in the Bias Dossier. I am at work, so can`t go trawling through to copy and paste.

I also get the impression that the Bias committee aren`t satisfied either, so don`t think it is me just banging on about openness and transparency.

my apologies Bish, i was being dim

i worry about Joe's answers a bit - is this internet survey the ONLY way you are getting fans opinions? how truly representative are answers given in an internet survey going to be?

 

[Ace Face]

Joe

Can BU put pressure on the BFC Board to fully answer the questions and concerns highlighted in the Bias dossier?

I believe BFC has again broken the clubs charter and BU is being harmed by all this.

 

[abee]

abee,

without getting into semantics, I think the more important issue is whether we as the supporters trust remain comfortable with our representatives on the BFC board undertaking executive roles within the club, whether broadly based or with a specific remit.

This again is a subject covered in the survey and a matter on which the BU board will be informed by the responses received.

It's not semantics Joe, it's real life.

Rogers told us in his statement that John Mac had given up his Executive role last June.

You posted on February 16 2005 on the "Our Club is a Public Joke" thread that

"..........since last year although part of the Executive Management team (John Mac) has been endeavouring.........."

It's a simple enough question is it not???

I am a shareholder, supporter and member of Bees United and BIAS. I do not have the faintest idea if John Mac is an executive director or not. The chairman suggests that he is not.......you posted a month ago that he is.

Is he or isn't he???

I'm not asking for a justification or whether he should be or not.

Just whether he is or not. Tell me yes or no and I'll take it away from there........

 

[JoeBourke]

Mr Tree,

It is a very good point. In the consultation on the Altonwood option last year we were able to conduct a postal survey and hand out copies of the questionnaire at Griffin Park. This method is preferred and would have been used had the governance survey been conducted at the end of the season.

In light of the need for a speedier response, we have gone for an online survey, together with direct communications received by the trust via post, email or telephone from concerned fans. This feedback is further bolstered by discussions held by BU board members with active fans prior to games and elsewhere. Enough to gather a representative sample of views and inform the views of the board on policy changes that need to be implemented.

Constitutional changes would require a meeting of the membership.

 

[abee]

Can no one from either BFC or BU answer a simple question these days rofl

Right but at least Joe Bourke comes on here and communicates with us.

I assume that will soon be the job of our new BFC Director of Communications and I've got some prizes lined up for when he finally surfaces....... lol