Bobby Charlton

Bobby Charlton

Brother Jackie suffered something similar in the years before his death.

What with Nobby Stiles and the other Boys of '66, you have to wonder about the frequency of this blight afflicting that team.

But afaik there is also often a strong genetic link to certain forms of dementia, which might be more relevant to the Charltons?

Either way, it's truly sad and terrible news.
 

Bobby Charlton

Lots of the 66 heroes sadly suffered/ or suffering with dementia as mentioned.
Can’t be a coincidence.
 

Bobby Charlton

Sad news, hopefully he won't suffer too much.
 

Bobby Charlton

Ealing Bee said:
Brother Jackie suffered something similar in the years before his death.

What with Nobby Stiles and the other Boys of '66, you have to wonder about the frequency of this blight afflicting that team.

But afaik there is also often a strong genetic link to certain forms of dementia, which might be more relevant to the Charltons?

Either way, it's truly sad and terrible news.
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I believe that there can be a hereditary link which may or may not of course be relevant to their family . also about 1in 4 people in their 80's and above will suffer from it.

Very sad in any event.
 

Bobby Charlton

My very best wishes to Sir Bobby and his family.

It is a truly horrible disease, which I know from personal experience as firstly my father-in-law suffered from it in his late 70s/early 80s and now my wife has early onset mixed dementia, having been diagnosed at the age of 60.
 

Bobby Charlton

HaylingBee74 said:
Isnt the link heading the heavier footballs of yesteryear, such as Jeff Astle’s suffering
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The link is heading footballs. Probably worst for strikers and, especially, centre backs, but applies to all. I was listening to some scientist talking on the radio a few months back about a recent study into this. As I remember it, they concluded that there was no real difference in effect between balls of that era and the ones which are still headed today. It was all carefully explained at the time, but I can't remember how now (probably headed too many footballs over the years!).
 

Bobby Charlton

Lionel Bart-At said:
As I remember it, they concluded that there was no real difference in effect between balls of that era and the ones which are still headed today. It was all carefully explained at the time, but I can't remember how now
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It is a myth that the old leather footballs were routinely heavier than modern footballs - they were actually marginally lighter. However, they became heavier in wet weather as they absorbed water. But only a minority of matches are played in the rain.

I remember some neurosurgeon saying that it wasn't so much the weight of the ball, or even the force with which it was headed, which was the problem. Rather it is the movement of a (soft) brain up against a (hard) skull. Think of it like an egg in an egg box - the eggs don't break since they are snug and cannot move.

Obviously in football, the brain will move most frequently with headers, but in sports like rugby and NFL, the problem comes with big hits, where whiplash causes the brain to be jerked in all directions, even when there is no actual contact to the head.

I'd be interested to know what the brain damage stats are for goalkeepers. Similarly eg with orthodox wingers, who rarely head the ball, either in games or in training.
 

Bobby Charlton

Ealing Bee said:
Brother Jackie suffered something similar in the years before his death.

What with Nobby Stiles and the other Boys of '66, you have to wonder about the frequency of this blight afflicting that team.

But afaik there is also often a strong genetic link to certain forms of dementia, which might be more relevant to the Charltons?

Either way, it's truly sad and terrible news.
Click to expand...
Sad news but the main correlation is with age- Sir Bobby is 83.
 

Bobby Charlton

Sad news. For me Bobby Charlton was arguably our best ever player. Total world class.
 

Bobby Charlton

alikat said:
My very best wishes to Sir Bobby and his family.

It is a truly horrible disease, which I know from personal experience as firstly my father-in-law suffered from it in his late 70s/early 80s and now my wife has early onset mixed dementia, having been diagnosed at the age of 60.
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My very best wishes to you @alikat.
 

Bobby Charlton

Ealing Bee said:
It is a myth that the old leather footballs were routinely heavier than modern footballs - they were actually marginally lighter. However, they became heavier in wet weather as they absorbed water. But only a minority of matches are played in the rain.

I remember some neurosurgeon saying that it wasn't so much the weight of the ball, or even the force with which it was headed, which was the problem. Rather it is the movement of a (soft) brain up against a (hard) skull. Think of it like an egg in an egg box - the eggs don't break since they are snug and cannot move.

Obviously in football, the brain will move most frequently with headers, but in sports like rugby and NFL, the problem comes with big hits, where whiplash causes the brain to be jerked in all directions, even when there is no actual contact to the head.

I'd be interested to know what the brain damage stats are for goalkeepers. Similarly eg with orthodox wingers, who rarely head the ball, either in games or in training.
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That's interesting. The state of pitches was such that invariably the football got heavier and if the pitch got very wet the ball became a lot heavier. Aged 12, I had concussion from heading one of those soggy footballs. There was also the lace to contend with. If you were unlucky enough to make headed contact with that then you knew all about it. I would have thought that the newer ball from the 1960s onwards was definitely heavier than the beach balls used now?
Just out of interest did you play in that era like me? My first boots had nail in leather studs. Happy days⚽ Looking back, it definitely felt heavier or maybe it's just age.
 

Bobby Charlton

beebopalula said:
That's interesting. The state of pitches was such that invariably the football got heavier and if the pitch got very wet the ball became a lot heavier. Aged 12, I had concussion from heading one of those soggy footballs. There was also the lace to contend with. If you were unlucky enough to make headed contact with that then you knew all about it.
Just out of interest did you play in that era like me? My first boots had nail in leather studs. Happy days⚽ Looking back, it definitely felt heavier or maybe it's just age.
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I've related this story before so I wont repeat it all. My Mum worked at the Bees in the 1960's. She was sometimes given old balls to bring home for my brother and I. They were like cannon balls. When we went over to the park with our mates no one could kick them. My brother however developed into a free kick expert and me a decent keeper.
 

Bobby Charlton

Ealing Bee said:
It is a myth that the old leather footballs were routinely heavier than modern footballs - they were actually marginally lighter. However, they became heavier in wet weather as they absorbed water. But only a minority of matches are played in the rain.

I remember some neurosurgeon saying that it wasn't so much the weight of the ball, or even the force with which it was headed, which was the problem. Rather it is the movement of a (soft) brain up against a (hard) skull. Think of it like an egg in an egg box - the eggs don't break since they are snug and cannot move.

Obviously in football, the brain will move most frequently with headers, but in sports like rugby and NFL, the problem comes with big hits, where whiplash causes the brain to be jerked in all directions, even when there is no actual contact to the head.

I'd be interested to know what the brain damage stats are for goalkeepers. Similarly eg with orthodox wingers, who rarely head the ball, either in games or in training.
Click to expand...
Maybe it was cheaper leather and rubber then. No, rubber alone is heavier than the modern ball and when the leather was scuffed and wet, they were like medicine balls. I used to head both. I know.
 

Bobby Charlton

(An article from 2010)

An Enduring Football Myth: The Weight of the Ball

It is a myth that the modern ball is lighter than the balls used in the past.

Since 1937, the dry weight of the ball has been specified by Law 2: 14-16oz. Prior to that, the rules governing the ball’s dry weight specified something lighter – 13-15oz.

This goes for the new ball used in 2010 just as much as it did for the 1966 ball. Whenever you read a comment along the lines of “I’d like to see modern players heading the leather pudding the ’66 boys had to put up with” you can assume that they don’t know what they’re talking about.

What has changed are (1) the material from which the ball is made, and thus the ability of the ball to avoid weight gain during the game through water absorption, and (2) the aerodynamics of the ball i.e. the smoothness of the surface.

The new ball isn’t lighter in of itself – which is what people seem to be assuming: but the new ball won’t get so wet in play. So in the broad sunshine of the ’66 World Cup Final, the famous orange balls were the same weight as the ones we see today. And so it has been on every dry day, on every dry pitch, since the balls were first standardized in the early 1870s.
An Enduring Football Myth: The Weight of the Ball – More Than Mind Games
An Enduring Football Myth: The Weight of the Ball – More Than Mind Games
 

Bobby Charlton

ruislip bee said:
Since 1937, the dry weight of the ball has been specified by Law 2: 14-16oz. Prior to that, the rules governing the ball’s dry weight specified something lighter – 13-15oz.
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Oh FFS. All this proves is that when a ball left the factory it was lighter. The materials meant it was lighter until it touched the first piece of moisture or mud (of which there was plenty). Please take this argument elsewhere.
 

Bobby Charlton

beebopalula said:
Sad news. For me Bobby Charlton was arguably our best ever player. Total world class.
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A blueprint for Ollie. Started at outside left and then moved more central. Not only for MU, but also with England. I can remember a couple of biographical details from then. He made himself a two-footed player, simply by hours and hours and hours of practice...and
“The more I shoot, the more I score.”
 

Bobby Charlton

Just on his illness etc, I know he scored a glancing header in the 1968 ECF, but I don't recall Sir Bobby ever heading the ball very often, at least nowhere near so frequently eg as brother Jack.

And it's not just in games we're talking. I remember from Alan Shearer's documentary on the subject, he pointed out that he practised different types of headers headers literally thousands of times in training. Centre halves like Jack will doubtless have done the same, but Sir Bobby?

This is a very complex topic - I'm not sure the specialists even understand it that well.
 

Bobby Charlton

JANORAK said:
A blueprint for Ollie. Started at outside left and then moved more central. Not only for MU, but also with England. I can remember a couple of biographical details from then. He made himself a two-footed player, simply by hours and hours and hours of practice...and
“The more I shoot, the more I score.”
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Watching some old footage the other day, and I was reminded that Sir Bobby was very left footed - when running with the ball, which he did frequently, he normally pushed it in front of him with his left foot.

Yet he also scored some absolute crackers with his right foot, as you say.
 

Bobby Charlton

Banana said:
Oh FFS. All this proves is that when a ball left the factory it was lighter. The materials meant it was lighter until it touched the first piece of moisture or mud (of which there was plenty). Please take this argument elsewhere.
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Oy Banana I never posted what you have in the box down to me.
 
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