Bournemouth Reports & Reaction

[nick logan]

This thread makes me sick, the two pops at Hypa123, just for trying to have a postive attitude are a disgrace.

I'm sick and tired of the negativity at this bloody club. Why can't people just be happy for once, yes Bournemouth was a sh*t game, but we've taken 10 points from our last 12. Were in a whisker of the carling cup quarter finals and still its all doom and ****ing gloom.

You don't want to go up Brentford has become a joke at Brentford down the years, but judging by some posters on this thread it seems to be true. Nobody seems to be happy at Brentford unless they have something to moan about.

I'm sick and tired of this sh*t, can we just for once be postive that the club is moving in the right direction at last. Rome wasn't built in a day and while there have been set backs this season. There have been some fantastic ones as well.

I'll be at Aldershot to watch my team make the 2nd round of the FA Cup, and i'll be there the week after to see us beat the Dons and then at Plymouth the week after with a full dose of PMA, but I don't know if i'll be reading the reports any more, just can't take the negativity.

Great post.

 

[Streetboy]

It was pretty crazy after Birmingham too. Clearly not after Exeter or Tranmere as hardly anyone was there .

Obviously there will be more comment after a home game.

If you think that hundreds of Bees fans have a hidden agenda then paranoia is setting in.

Perhaps rather than slating hpya123 for not being at games, people shouldn't just base rants on home performances then? I have already come to the conclusion that either most of the doom merchants were neither at Birmingham nor Exeter, or saw different games to me...

 

[sussexb]

A spin-doctor writes:

Look at it this way - for most of the season so far, Brentford have been in promotion-winning form. Over a period of eleven matches, to be precise. That's three-quarters of the games played so far, so I think that can count for "most" of the season. And what do we find? We find that in these 11 matches, Brentford have taken 18 points. Multiply that by four, that's 72 points from 44 games, add on a few for the extra couple of games, call it 75 points from 46, and they're in the play-off places at least. Given the bunched-up nature of the table this season, that could even - at a stretch - be enough for automatic promotion. We could add in, though we won't because it's irrelevant with regard to the promotion issue, the six cup games - three wins and three draws, including two against premiership sides. Is this the form of a side that plays crap and has a crap manager? I think not. Is this a misleading, selective use of statistics? Again, given that we are talking here about three quarters of the league games played so far plus half a dozen cup games, I think not. It's clear that if instead of that stuttering start Brentford had taken a reasonable haul from those first four games, say a total of six points, they would now be among the front-runners in the promotion charge.

So let's hear it for the lads and the manager - for most of the season, they've been in promotion-winning form. It hasn't always been pretty, and they've had moments of good fortune as well as moments of bad luck, but you can't argue with that form overall. (Well, clearly some of you can. Clearly some of you will leave no stone unturned to find a negative perspective, something to gripe about and snipe from the sidelines). Me, I'm looking for the team to get better still, and I think they will. If they do, it certainly won't be thanks to the negativity squad. Once again, then, remember this (especially shouldbee, wayfarer, bill benn and the rest): for most of the season so far, Brentford have been in promotion-winning form.

lol You've been very quick to damn others for their use of statistics in the past, so I find this a bit bizarre.

The only stat that matters is the current league table. Everything else is conjecture, and none of us can know who's right or wrong.

 

[shouldbee]

A spin-doctor writes:

Look at it this way - for most of the season so far, Brentford have been in promotion-winning form. Over a period of eleven matches, to be precise. That's three-quarters of the games played so far, so I think that can count for "most" of the season. And what do we find? We find that in these 11 matches, Brentford have taken 18 points. Multiply that by four, that's 72 points from 44 games, add on a few for the extra couple of games, call it 75 points from 46, and they're in the play-off places at least. Given the bunched-up nature of the table this season, that could even - at a stretch - be enough for automatic promotion. We could add in, though we won't because it's irrelevant with regard to the promotion issue, the six cup games - three wins and three draws, including two against premiership sides. Is this the form of a side that plays crap and has a crap manager? I think not. Is this a misleading, selective use of statistics? Again, given that we are talking here about three quarters of the league games played so far plus half a dozen cup games, I think not. It's clear that if instead of that stuttering start Brentford had taken a reasonable haul from those first four games, say a total of six points, they would now be among the front-runners in the promotion charge.

So let's hear it for the lads and the manager - for most of the season, they've been in promotion-winning form. It hasn't always been pretty, and they've had moments of good fortune as well as moments of bad luck, but you can't argue with that form overall. (Well, clearly some of you can. Clearly some of you will leave no stone unturned to find a negative perspective, something to gripe about and snipe from the sidelines). Me, I'm looking for the team to get better still, and I think they will. If they do, it certainly won't be thanks to the negativity squad. Once again, then, remember this (especially shouldbee, wayfarer, bill benn and the rest): for most of the season so far, Brentford have been in promotion-winning form.

"It hasn't always been pretty",
Please explain how you know, you don't attend matches ?

 

[Newbee]

"It hasn't always been pretty",
Please explain how you know, you don't attend matches ?

Humour me here, why don't you ask that question to the posters who are unable to get to GP yet think Andy Scott is not a good manager?


You never seem to question their posts?


Actually as a sidenote. Hypa123 has been to a match, the Posh match that we won 2-1 (which funnily enough is the one game a few "Anti Scott" posters didn't make it too.... :shrug: )

 

[hairman]

Humour me here, why don't you ask that question to the posters who are unable to get to GP yet think Andy Scott is not a good manager?


You never seem to question their posts?

Actually as a sidenote. Hypa123 has been to a match, the Posh match that we won 2-1 (which funnily enough is the one game a few "Anti Scott" posters didn't make it too.... :shrug: )

 

[Bill Benn]

This thread makes me sick, the two pops at Hypa123, just for trying to have a postive attitude are a disgrace.

I'm sick and tired of the negativity at this bloody club. Why can't people just be happy for once, yes Bournemouth was a sh*t game, but we've taken 10 points from our last 12. Were in a whisker of the carling cup quarter finals and still its all doom and ****ing gloom.

You don't want to go up Brentford has become a joke at Brentford down the years, but judging by some posters on this thread it seems to be true. Nobody seems to be happy at Brentford unless they have something to moan about.

I'm sick and tired of this sh*t, can we just for once be postive that the club is moving in the right direction at last. Rome wasn't built in a day and while there have been set backs this season. There have been some fantastic ones as well.

I'll be at Aldershot to watch my team make the 2nd round of the FA Cup, and i'll be there the week after to see us beat the Dons and then at Plymouth the week after with a full dose of PMA, but I don't know if i'll be reading the reports any more, just can't take the negativity.

Best keep off the GPG then things could get worse.lol

 

[Gee Bee]

"It hasn't always been pretty",
Please explain how you know, you don't attend matches ?

I've been going more than 40 years and can't remeber to many pretty times. Some said just a few weeks back lets win ugly if necessary forget the style. We pick up 10 out of 12 points doing a bit of both and still despondency proceeds.
I noted earlier someone mentioning Danny Hollands as a creative midfielder, well sort of, but he did play a hell of alot of long diagonal balls that went out of play or were uncontrollable. Is that creative? How many creative midfielders are there in this division (Harley mentioned any others of real note?).

 

[Houghton Bee]

This thread makes me sick, the two pops at Hypa123, just for trying to have a postive attitude are a disgrace.

I'm sick and tired of the negativity at this bloody club. Why can't people just be happy for once, yes Bournemouth was a sh*t game, but we've taken 10 points from our last 12. Were in a whisker of the carling cup quarter finals and still its all doom and ****ing gloom.

You don't want to go up Brentford has become a joke at Brentford down the years, but judging by some posters on this thread it seems to be true. Nobody seems to be happy at Brentford unless they have something to moan about.

I'm sick and tired of this sh*t, can we just for once be postive that the club is moving in the right direction at last. Rome wasn't built in a day and while there have been set backs this season. There have been some fantastic ones as well.

I'll be at Aldershot to watch my team make the 2nd round of the FA Cup, and i'll be there the week after to see us beat the Dons and then at Plymouth the week after with a full dose of PMA, but I don't know if i'll be reading the reports any more, just can't take the negativity.

excellent post

to give an example of the 'you dont wanna go up brentford' mentality of some of our fans, there is a tall bloke, bald on top but has hair going round the back and side of his head who stands to the left of the ealing road goal as you look towards the pitch, who just does not shut his whinging boring mouth all through the game, regardless of how well we're playing, or whether we're winning. against sheff wed he was moaning all the way through, on tuesday he declared weston as the worst player we have, osborne and legge the worst centre back pairing ever. he even wanted bournemouth to score asap so as to put us out of our misery i swear the ***** doesnt even cheer when we score, he may clap a little at most. honestly why would you waste the time and money to be like that, doing something you clearly hate? he's like a little kid kicking off because his computer game wont let him win. we even moved at half time to get away from the clown.

 

[Northwalesbee]

Where's the dude with the glasses that used to moan about us all the time didn't see him on the Ealing road tues ? I have been away for a while though ! Really wanted to chin him once last season!!!!

Doesn't supporter mean cheer on and support encourage ? Whats with all the negativity flying round ? lol

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Where's the dude with the glasses that used to moan about us all the time didn't see him on the Ealing road tues ? I have been away for a while though ! Really wanted to chin him once last season!!!!

Doesn't supporter mean cheer on and support encourage ? Whats with all the negativity flying round ? lol

I see negative stuff at the ground all the time, one bod on ER(50s) kept calling Simpson a useless, lazt c**t. Myles gets the same, Karleigh still gets some. Most of us support and leave any negatives that we have to the internet, where IMO it's a good place to say what's pissing you off?

 

[maddogging]

excellent post

to give an example of the 'you dont wanna go up brentford' mentality of some of our fans, there is a tall bloke, bald on top but has hair going round the back and side of his head who stands to the left of the ealing road goal as you look towards the pitch, who just does not shut his whinging boring mouth all through the game, regardless of how well we're playing, or whether we're winning. against sheff wed he was moaning all the way through, on tuesday he declared weston as the worst player we have, osborne and legge the worst centre back pairing ever. he even wanted bournemouth to score asap so as to put us out of our misery i swear the ***** doesnt even cheer when we score, he may clap a little at most. honestly why would you waste the time and money to be like that, doing something you clearly hate? he's like a little kid kicking off because his computer game wont let him win. we even moved at half time to get away from the clown.

you best not buy his book then

 

[Northwalesbee]

I see negative stuff at the ground all the time, one bod on ER(50s) kept calling Simpson a useless, lazt c**t. Myles gets the same, Karleigh still gets some. Most of us support and leave any negatives that we have to the internet, where IMO it's a good place to say what's pissing you off?

I admit I said to someone Tuesday that Simpson and Wood look off the pace and should be brought off but hearing the c**t word thrown at our players is wrong . I did call MK mongs that a few times in the game last season but they were the dirtiest team I'd seen in years !

 

[NorthamptonBee]

you best not buy his book then

Tall = yes, bald = not a chance. People will believe that you silly so and so.
Have you ever heard me get negative at any game? Course you haven't, I didn't celebrate either of the first 2 goals at Exeter though, I didn't think either were in until I saw the players celebrating.

 

[maddogging]

Tall = yes, bald = not a chance. People will believe that you silly so and so.
Have you ever heard me get negative at any game? Course you haven't, I didn't celebrate either of the first 2 goals at Exeter though, I didn't think either were in until I saw the players celebrating.

Mr Postive I like to call you on the terraces

 

[ACbee]

My view of things, 48 hours late but hopefully still valid.

Tuesday night was a dire game between a team who played pretty football, but had no quality end product, and a team who huff, puff and battle, but lacked quality when it was needed.

It still surprises me at how misunderstood KOC's role in the 11 is, and as a result, how unappreciated the work he does is. Bean, and Dave before him, are the legs in the middle of the park, and it is their job to cover ground, and pick up loose balls in the opponents half, those edge of the box knock downs that we seem to lose out on often. KOC is criticised for playing sideways football, but the nature of his role is that he tackles and intercepts infront of his own back 4, often in his half, before playing a pass. We want to play wide through 2 wingers, so the most common pass he plays is to a full back to start this off. You cannot pass the ball to someone who is not available to receive it, and often the full backs are the only players open to receive this. If KOC was able to play 40 yard passes into the paths of forwards making diagonal runs behind the opponents back 4, as well as tackle and breakdown play, then I'm sorry but he wouldn't be playing for the Bees, but another club in West London. So in League 1 you make a sacrifice, and ours is to play a midfielder who protects the back 4, but perhaps doesn't have the creative vision to inspire an attack. I am happy with the compromise that we have made.

I felt we missed out by having Sam Wood on the right, as for all his industry and hard work, we lose an area of the pitch that he does not attack into. On the right he was receiving the ball and coming in field on to his stronger foot, in previous games Spillane has made up for this by his attacking nature and being prepared to attack the opposing full back. On first impressions Wright is more of a defensive organiser, than a overlapping Dickson-type full back, and so we lost out when we did have the ball in attacking areas on Tuesday. This is no criticism of Wright, I was more comfortable with him and Woodman outside of a potentially car-crash pairing of Legge and Osborne (exceptional on their day, but still with the knowledge that they are inexperienced and that a basic error could be around the corner), however well I think Spillane has played when I've seen him. Also, this is no criticism of Wood either, but I think we either have to have a Spillane-Wood (attacking full back, winger who defends) pairing or a Wright-Grabban/Simpson (winger who plays higher up the pitch and a covering full back) pairing.

I don't buy the pretty football and the fans will come flooding back theory, it's results that count, and while I was very disappointed with the performance on Tuesday, I'm content now that we are 1 point further away from that bottom 4. Supporters want to see winning teams; would Arsenal fans take a Premier League title over playing attractive football this season? I suspect so. If we were at the top of the table there would've been 8,000 there, pretty football or not. As far as I can remember, we have always been a direct team, ie getting the ball into the 'back to goal' forward quickly who's job it is to bring others into the game, even in our most recent successful times under MA, promotion with AS, and even under Coppell. I believe it was only that Burgess, under SC, had more than League 1 quality on the ball that he was able to bring others into play, rather than him being on the end of glorious passing football. We have always moved the ball quickly and forward, but we are not alone in this as the vast majority of teams in the lower 2 leagues try to do the same.

The above is reflected in that the 'fan favourite' players at the moment, Legge, Wood, McDonald, Bean are all players known for their industry and graft, as opposed to their footballing ability. Granted they can all play the game, but Maradona they are not.

So where to go from here? Save a massive change in personnel, there is not going to be a huge change in style, it will still be direct, but there is a difference between direct and long. The squad that we have isn't designed in the main for pretty football from what I can see. So I think we will have to rely on getting a bit better at what we do. The midfielder providing more impetus and industry, and pushing us further up the field, this player really should provide the energy for the whole team to work from. Encouraging our full backs to play slightly higher to squeeze the opponents wide players back into their own half. Improving our delivery into dangerous areas, from open play and set pieces. Improving the movement of our centre forwards when we do have the ball, with less reliance on a spin off the opposing CB and run into the channel, and more open to exploit the space in front of a back 4 and receiving the ball to feet.

All of these things are achievable, and we have seen glimpses of this during 2010. The challenge is now for us to be more consistent in doing so.

 

[sonofabee]

excellent post

to give an example of the 'you dont wanna go up brentford' mentality of some of our fans, there is a tall bloke, bald on top but has hair going round the back and side of his head who stands to the left of the ealing road goal as you look towards the pitch, who just does not shut his whinging boring mouth all through the game, regardless of how well we're playing, or whether we're winning. against sheff wed he was moaning all the way through, on tuesday he declared weston as the worst player we have, osborne and legge the worst centre back pairing ever. he even wanted bournemouth to score asap so as to put us out of our misery i swear the ***** doesnt even cheer when we score, he may clap a little at most. honestly why would you waste the time and money to be like that, doing something you clearly hate? he's like a little kid kicking off because his computer game wont let him win. we even moved at half time to get away from the clown.

He's not alone, we've a fair few sitting towards the back of the New Road who give the impression they hate Karleigh, Marcus and Gary Alexander as well as AS.

I'd love us to play flowing, Brazilian style footballer but can any fans remind me of what they think they're suddenly missing under AS as who was the last Manager who set us up to play attractive, ball on the deck, "tippy tappy" football. I suspect it was Leroy but it really didn't work and I didn't enjoy watching us get destroyed week in week out.

I can go through every manager since Jimmy Sirrell in 1968 and as much as I love Brentford and I see things with the glass half full believe me, Griffin Park has never been synonymous with free flowing, attractive, academy style football.

In my time, I remember one season under Frank Blunstone with us winning games and scoring hatfuls in div 4 but we were very direct and relied completely on with wee John Doc supplying great crosses for Big John O'Mara but it wasn't pretty football. I loved it by the way but the purists wouldn't have and as soon as we sold O'Mara we were f****d.

Bill Dodgin had us playing good football, again in div 4 as we had a very lightweight side that couldn't outbattle teams (Metchick, Carlton, Shrubb, Willie Graham, Doug Allder (except Sheff U) ) and we had two great forwards in Stevie Phillips and Andy Mac that only needed a half chance.

O'Callaghan got some real footballers in but we never achieved anything.

Steve Coppells team did play great football at times but that's about it in the last 40+ years, we've never been a pretty footballing side. I understand that now with a bigger budget that for many years we expect to see better footballers playing a better brand but it's not like AS has suddenly changed us from Barca into Wimbledon.

 

[Streetboy]

He's not alone, we've a fair few sitting towards the back of the New Road who give the impression they hate Karleigh, Marcus and Gary Alexander as well as AS.

I'd love us to play flowing, Brazilian style footballer but can any fans remind me of what they think they're suddenly missing under AS as who was the last Manager who set us up to play attractive, ball on the deck, "tippy tappy" football. I suspect it was Leroy but it really didn't work and I didn't enjoy watching us get destroyed week in week out.

I can go through every manager since Jimmy Sirrell in 1968 and as much as I love Brentford and I see things with the glass half full believe me, Griffin Park has never been synonymous with free flowing, attractive, academy style football.

In my time, I remember one season under Frank Blunstone with us winning games and scoring hatfuls in div 4 but we were very direct and relied completely on with wee John Doc supplying great crosses for Big John O'Mara but it wasn't pretty football. I loved it by the way but the purists wouldn't have and as soon as we sold O'Mara we were f****d.

Bill Dodgin had us playing good football, again in div 4 as we had a very lightweight side that couldn't outbattle teams (Metchick, Carlton, Shrubb, Willie Graham, Doug Allder (except Sheff U) ) and we had two great forwards in Stevie Phillips and Andy Mac that only needed a half chance.

O'Callaghan got some real footballers in but we never achieved anything.

Steve Coppells team did play great football at times but that's about it in the last 40+ years, we've never been a pretty footballing side. I understand that now with a bigger budget that for many years we expect to see better footballers playing a better brand but it's not like AS has suddenly changed us from Barca into Wimbledon.

I'd add in the first, and at times, the last season under Webb too, but that's about it...

 

[Brentford_till_die]

Forster's best game for us this season, dont think hes scored yet as he?

 

[BYFLEET BEE]

My view of things, 48 hours late but hopefully still valid.

Tuesday night was a dire game between a team who played pretty football, but had no quality end product, and a team who huff, puff and battle, but lacked quality when it was needed.

It still surprises me at how misunderstood KOC's role in the 11 is, and as a result, how unappreciated the work he does is. Bean, and Dave before him, are the legs in the middle of the park, and it is their job to cover ground, and pick up loose balls in the opponents half, those edge of the box knock downs that we seem to lose out on often. KOC is criticised for playing sideways football, but the nature of his role is that he tackles and intercepts infront of his own back 4, often in his half, before playing a pass. We want to play wide through 2 wingers, so the most common pass he plays is to a full back to start this off. You cannot pass the ball to someone who is not available to receive it, and often the full backs are the only players open to receive this. If KOC was able to play 40 yard passes into the paths of forwards making diagonal runs behind the opponents back 4, as well as tackle and breakdown play, then I'm sorry but he wouldn't be playing for the Bees, but another club in West London. So in League 1 you make a sacrifice, and ours is to play a midfielder who protects the back 4, but perhaps doesn't have the creative vision to inspire an attack. I am happy with the compromise that we have made.

I felt we missed out by having Sam Wood on the right, as for all his industry and hard work, we lose an area of the pitch that he does not attack into. On the right he was receiving the ball and coming in field on to his stronger foot, in previous games Spillane has made up for this by his attacking nature and being prepared to attack the opposing full back. On first impressions Wright is more of a defensive organiser, than a overlapping Dickson-type full back, and so we lost out when we did have the ball in attacking areas on Tuesday. This is no criticism of Wright, I was more comfortable with him and Woodman outside of a potentially car-crash pairing of Legge and Osborne (exceptional on their day, but still with the knowledge that they are inexperienced and that a basic error could be around the corner), however well I think Spillane has played when I've seen him. Also, this is no criticism of Wood either, but I think we either have to have a Spillane-Wood (attacking full back, winger who defends) pairing or a Wright-Grabban/Simpson (winger who plays higher up the pitch and a covering full back) pairing.

I don't buy the pretty football and the fans will come flooding back theory, it's results that count, and while I was very disappointed with the performance on Tuesday, I'm content now that we are 1 point further away from that bottom 4. Supporters want to see winning teams; would Arsenal fans take a Premier League title over playing attractive football this season? I suspect so. If we were at the top of the table there would've been 8,000 there, pretty football or not. As far as I can remember, we have always been a direct team, ie getting the ball into the 'back to goal' forward quickly who's job it is to bring others into the game, even in our most recent successful times under MA, promotion with AS, and even under Coppell. I believe it was only that Burgess, under SC, had more than League 1 quality on the ball that he was able to bring others into play, rather than him being on the end of glorious passing football. We have always moved the ball quickly and forward, but we are not alone in this as the vast majority of teams in the lower 2 leagues try to do the same.

The above is reflected in that the 'fan favourite' players at the moment, Legge, Wood, McDonald, Bean are all players known for their industry and graft, as opposed to their footballing ability. Granted they can all play the game, but Maradona they are not.

So where to go from here? Save a massive change in personnel, there is not going to be a huge change in style, it will still be direct, but there is a difference between direct and long. The squad that we have isn't designed in the main for pretty football from what I can see. So I think we will have to rely on getting a bit better at what we do. The midfielder providing more impetus and industry, and pushing us further up the field, this player really should provide the energy for the whole team to work from. Encouraging our full backs to play slightly higher to squeeze the opponents wide players back into their own half. Improving our delivery into dangerous areas, from open play and set pieces. Improving the movement of our centre forwards when we do have the ball, with less reliance on a spin off the opposing CB and run into the channel, and more open to exploit the space in front of a back 4 and receiving the ball to feet.

All of these things are achievable, and we have seen glimpses of this during 2010. The challenge is now for us to be more consistent in doing so.

 

[BYFLEET BEE]

cracking post my friend,

 

[Guildford Bee]

Good post above. The only Brentford side I have ever seen that really looked to get the ball down and pass it was under Ray Lewington. Even under SC, we looked to get the ball to the wingers very quickly and put balls in the box - much like the current team.

Tuesday was dire and I stand by ny comment that I was embarassed to come away from that with a point especially after seeing the way Bournemouth looked to play it out from the back. But some of the ciriticism has gone OTT again, especially that of O'Connor who I thought was MOM. I think the problem is finding a way for him to play alongside a creative 'passer' - much like Arter. Whether that would work or not I don't know but AS obviously doesn't want to move away from O'Connor sitting in front of the back for and Bean or Dave winning everything in front of him. Unfortunately it means we don't see much football played through the middle.

 

[nick logan]

cracking post my friend,

Agreed

 

[KGB]

I suppose the basic argument from the recent posts is: 'We've never played attractive football, therefore we shouldn't try to do so now or in the future'.

Obviously, if true, this approach has had a terrific amount of success over the last 50+ years - we had a season in the 2nd division for heaven's sake!!!

Btw, some of the splendid performances were not quite as good as has been claimed on this board. P'borough played us off the park until the 'disputed penalty save' incident ignited a response (very creditable from the players btw) that never looked likely beforehand. Charlton were undone by Myles in the 1st half, playing against his old club and given confidence by his 1st minute effort, but were probably the better side in the 2nd. Even Sheff Weds have proved not to be the side everyone thought they were at the time.

I loved all three of those wins but that doesn't mean that there weren't, imo, problems that needed to be addressed. I think a number of 'doubters' also pointed that out at Exeter, and certainly Bournemouth, who have lost their leading striker & are poor as the proverbial church mouse, would not have been flattered by a two or three goal victory.

 

[Fish Bee]

My view of things, 48 hours late but hopefully still valid.

Tuesday night was a dire game between a team who played pretty football, but had no quality end product, and a team who huff, puff and battle, but lacked quality when it was needed.

It still surprises me at how misunderstood KOC's role in the 11 is, and as a result, how unappreciated the work he does is. Bean, and Dave before him, are the legs in the middle of the park, and it is their job to cover ground, and pick up loose balls in the opponents half, those edge of the box knock downs that we seem to lose out on often. KOC is criticised for playing sideways football, but the nature of his role is that he tackles and intercepts infront of his own back 4, often in his half, before playing a pass. We want to play wide through 2 wingers, so the most common pass he plays is to a full back to start this off. You cannot pass the ball to someone who is not available to receive it, and often the full backs are the only players open to receive this. If KOC was able to play 40 yard passes into the paths of forwards making diagonal runs behind the opponents back 4, as well as tackle and breakdown play, then I'm sorry but he wouldn't be playing for the Bees, but another club in West London. So in League 1 you make a sacrifice, and ours is to play a midfielder who protects the back 4, but perhaps doesn't have the creative vision to inspire an attack. I am happy with the compromise that we have made.

I felt we missed out by having Sam Wood on the right, as for all his industry and hard work, we lose an area of the pitch that he does not attack into. On the right he was receiving the ball and coming in field on to his stronger foot, in previous games Spillane has made up for this by his attacking nature and being prepared to attack the opposing full back. On first impressions Wright is more of a defensive organiser, than a overlapping Dickson-type full back, and so we lost out when we did have the ball in attacking areas on Tuesday. This is no criticism of Wright, I was more comfortable with him and Woodman outside of a potentially car-crash pairing of Legge and Osborne (exceptional on their day, but still with the knowledge that they are inexperienced and that a basic error could be around the corner), however well I think Spillane has played when I've seen him. Also, this is no criticism of Wood either, but I think we either have to have a Spillane-Wood (attacking full back, winger who defends) pairing or a Wright-Grabban/Simpson (winger who plays higher up the pitch and a covering full back) pairing.

I don't buy the pretty football and the fans will come flooding back theory, it's results that count, and while I was very disappointed with the performance on Tuesday, I'm content now that we are 1 point further away from that bottom 4. Supporters want to see winning teams; would Arsenal fans take a Premier League title over playing attractive football this season? I suspect so. If we were at the top of the table there would've been 8,000 there, pretty football or not. As far as I can remember, we have always been a direct team, ie getting the ball into the 'back to goal' forward quickly who's job it is to bring others into the game, even in our most recent successful times under MA, promotion with AS, and even under Coppell. I believe it was only that Burgess, under SC, had more than League 1 quality on the ball that he was able to bring others into play, rather than him being on the end of glorious passing football. We have always moved the ball quickly and forward, but we are not alone in this as the vast majority of teams in the lower 2 leagues try to do the same.

The above is reflected in that the 'fan favourite' players at the moment, Legge, Wood, McDonald, Bean are all players known for their industry and graft, as opposed to their footballing ability. Granted they can all play the game, but Maradona they are not.

So where to go from here? Save a massive change in personnel, there is not going to be a huge change in style, it will still be direct, but there is a difference between direct and long. The squad that we have isn't designed in the main for pretty football from what I can see. So I think we will have to rely on getting a bit better at what we do. The midfielder providing more impetus and industry, and pushing us further up the field, this player really should provide the energy for the whole team to work from. Encouraging our full backs to play slightly higher to squeeze the opponents wide players back into their own half. Improving our delivery into dangerous areas, from open play and set pieces. Improving the movement of our centre forwards when we do have the ball, with less reliance on a spin off the opposing CB and run into the channel, and more open to exploit the space in front of a back 4 and receiving the ball to feet.

All of these things are achievable, and we have seen glimpses of this during 2010. The challenge is now for us to be more consistent in doing so.

Amen..... and hear hear! The voice of reason at last.

(By the way that's "hear hear"... not "here here".... ok, folks?)

I agree with every word you say. And put much more eloquently than I would have done.

(And by the way that's "I would have done"... not "I would of done"... ok?)

Grammar police signing off for now...

 

[hairman]

My view of things, 48 hours late but hopefully still valid.

Tuesday night was a dire game between a team who played pretty football, but had no quality end product, and a team who huff, puff and battle, but lacked quality when it was needed.

It still surprises me at how misunderstood KOC's role in the 11 is, and as a result, how unappreciated the work he does is. Bean, and Dave before him, are the legs in the middle of the park, and it is their job to cover ground, and pick up loose balls in the opponents half, those edge of the box knock downs that we seem to lose out on often. KOC is criticised for playing sideways football, but the nature of his role is that he tackles and intercepts infront of his own back 4, often in his half, before playing a pass. We want to play wide through 2 wingers, so the most common pass he plays is to a full back to start this off. You cannot pass the ball to someone who is not available to receive it, and often the full backs are the only players open to receive this. If KOC was able to play 40 yard passes into the paths of forwards making diagonal runs behind the opponents back 4, as well as tackle and breakdown play, then I'm sorry but he wouldn't be playing for the Bees, but another club in West London. So in League 1 you make a sacrifice, and ours is to play a midfielder who protects the back 4, but perhaps doesn't have the creative vision to inspire an attack. I am happy with the compromise that we have made.

I felt we missed out by having Sam Wood on the right, as for all his industry and hard work, we lose an area of the pitch that he does not attack into. On the right he was receiving the ball and coming in field on to his stronger foot, in previous games Spillane has made up for this by his attacking nature and being prepared to attack the opposing full back. On first impressions Wright is more of a defensive organiser, than a overlapping Dickson-type full back, and so we lost out when we did have the ball in attacking areas on Tuesday. This is no criticism of Wright, I was more comfortable with him and Woodman outside of a potentially car-crash pairing of Legge and Osborne (exceptional on their day, but still with the knowledge that they are inexperienced and that a basic error could be around the corner), however well I think Spillane has played when I've seen him. Also, this is no criticism of Wood either, but I think we either have to have a Spillane-Wood (attacking full back, winger who defends) pairing or a Wright-Grabban/Simpson (winger who plays higher up the pitch and a covering full back) pairing.

I don't buy the pretty football and the fans will come flooding back theory, it's results that count, and while I was very disappointed with the performance on Tuesday, I'm content now that we are 1 point further away from that bottom 4. Supporters want to see winning teams; would Arsenal fans take a Premier League title over playing attractive football this season? I suspect so. If we were at the top of the table there would've been 8,000 there, pretty football or not. As far as I can remember, we have always been a direct team, ie getting the ball into the 'back to goal' forward quickly who's job it is to bring others into the game, even in our most recent successful times under MA, promotion with AS, and even under Coppell. I believe it was only that Burgess, under SC, had more than League 1 quality on the ball that he was able to bring others into play, rather than him being on the end of glorious passing football. We have always moved the ball quickly and forward, but we are not alone in this as the vast majority of teams in the lower 2 leagues try to do the same.

The above is reflected in that the 'fan favourite' players at the moment, Legge, Wood, McDonald, Bean are all players known for their industry and graft, as opposed to their footballing ability. Granted they can all play the game, but Maradona they are not.

So where to go from here? Save a massive change in personnel, there is not going to be a huge change in style, it will still be direct, but there is a difference between direct and long. The squad that we have isn't designed in the main for pretty football from what I can see. So I think we will have to rely on getting a bit better at what we do. The midfielder providing more impetus and industry, and pushing us further up the field, this player really should provide the energy for the whole team to work from. Encouraging our full backs to play slightly higher to squeeze the opponents wide players back into their own half. Improving our delivery into dangerous areas, from open play and set pieces. Improving the movement of our centre forwards when we do have the ball, with less reliance on a spin off the opposing CB and run into the channel, and more open to exploit the space in front of a back 4 and receiving the ball to feet.

All of these things are achievable, and we have seen glimpses of this during 2010. The challenge is now for us to be more consistent in doing so.

I'm sorry my friend but you have & write too much sense. This won't do. Scott in or Scott out?

Top comment in my opinion - there could soon be a vacancy in football management available. Are you up to it though?

 

[IslandBee]

My view of things, 48 hours late but hopefully still valid..

Absolutely so, and intelligent, balanced, insightful and well-informed to boot! I may well print off this post and frame it!!

 

[IslandBee]

I admit I said to someone Tuesday that Simpson and Wood look off the pace and should be brought off but hearing the c**t word thrown at our players is wrong . I did call MK mongs that a few times in the game last season but they were the dirtiest team I'd seen in years !

Two blokes almost came to blows over Simpson in the Braemar. One had been shouting at him all game, right in the ear of the bloke in front, who obviously didn't agree because just before Simpson was substituted he turned round and yelled 'shut the f**k up' in the bloke behind's face. Both sat sulking anrgily for the rest of the game. Funny what football can do to you!

 

[Brentford_till_die]

Acbee
You say our squad aint built for pretty football, Ive said for ages now that the team / squad we have, if they were to pass the ball about etc then we would be up the top of the league.
We did this second half vs P.Boro

 

[Billy Hunt]

Absolutely so, and intelligent, balanced, insightful and well-informed to boot! I may well print off this post and frame it!!

An excellent read.

 

[sussexb]

I suppose the basic argument from the recent posts is: 'We've never played attractive football, therefore we shouldn't try to do so now or in the future'.

Obviously, if true, this approach has had a terrific amount of success over the last 50+ years - we had a season in the 2nd division for heaven's sake!!!

Btw, some of the splendid performances were not quite as good as has been claimed on this board. P'borough played us off the park until the 'disputed penalty save' incident ignited a response (very creditable from the players btw) that never looked likely beforehand. Charlton were undone by Myles in the 1st half, playing against his old club and given confidence by his 1st minute effort, but were probably the better side in the 2nd. Even Sheff Weds have proved not to be the side everyone thought they were at the time.

I loved all three of those wins but that doesn't mean that there weren't, imo, problems that needed to be addressed. I think a number of 'doubters' also pointed that out at Exeter, and certainly Bournemouth, who have lost their leading striker & are poor as the proverbial church mouse, would not have been flattered by a two or three goal victory.

 

[sonofabee]

I suppose the basic argument from the recent posts is: 'We've never played attractive football, therefore we shouldn't try to do so now or in the future'.

Obviously, if true, this approach has had a terrific amount of success over the last 50+ years - we had a season in the 2nd division for heaven's sake!!!

Btw, some of the splendid performances were not quite as good as has been claimed on this board. P'borough played us off the park until the 'disputed penalty save' incident ignited a response (very creditable from the players btw) that never looked likely beforehand. Charlton were undone by Myles in the 1st half, playing against his old club and given confidence by his 1st minute effort, but were probably the better side in the 2nd. Even Sheff Weds have proved not to be the side everyone thought they were at the time.

I loved all three of those wins but that doesn't mean that there weren't, imo, problems that needed to be addressed. I think a number of 'doubters' also pointed that out at Exeter, and certainly Bournemouth, who have lost their leading striker & are poor as the proverbial church mouse, would not have been flattered by a two or three goal victory.

KGB,

My point was that the moaners around me suggest that AS has suddenly turned us from Barca to Wimbledon with his style of football. I believe that by and large he has signed players with a plan to get control of the ball and then quickly play in the wide men.

When we have done this we have looked exciting, effective and strong if not cultured. I'm happy not being a cultured side as I've become accustomed to it and as long as we're not a hoofball side (as it was at times on Tuesday) and play like we have in the games I mentioned, I go home happy.
I'll concede that we probably haven't looked like world beaters in any games but I've still seen some of the most exciting games of recent years already within the first third of the season.
I'm sick of the times over the years that we never used to turn up or underperformed against the big sides in our division, well AS seems to have changed that, the issue now appears to be getting players to raise their games against the lesser sides.

 

[scruff puppy pup]

Acbee
You say our squad aint built for pretty football, Ive said for ages now that the team / squad we have, if they were to pass the ball about etc then we would be up the top of the league.
We did this second half vs P.Boro

We did it last season in the League Cup against Bristol City. It does seem that AS doesn't have a lot of faith in this method. We're a bit like Sheff Utd have been in the Championship, direct with lots of muscle.

 

[Brentford_till_die]

We did it last season in the League Cup against Bristol City. It does seem that AS doesn't have a lot of faith in this method. We're a bit like Sheff Utd have been in the Championship, direct with lots of muscle.

Huddersfield at home too.
On the fair few occasions we play like that we look so good, shame we cant play like it week in week out.

 

[Ghost]

The way I see it is that if anyone thinks we are going to be stroking the ball around and releasing the forwards with defence splitting passes all day long then they need a lie down. However, there is a big difference between "Direct" and "Hoof" I have no problem with going direct to Alexander or even maybe Simpson but lumping it aimlessly to Charlie/Grabban/Forster is about the level you will see down the park of a Sunday. Hitting a target man is a deliberate tactic, launching it as you don't know what else to do, isn't.

 

[rhprice]

The way I see it is that if anyone thinks we are going to be stroking the ball around and releasing the forwards with defence splitting passes all day long then they need a lie down. However, there is a big difference between "Direct" and "Hoof" I have no problem with going direct to Alexander or even maybe Simpson but lumping it aimlessly to Charlie/Grabban/Forster is about the level you will see down the park of a Sunday. Hitting a target man is a deliberate tactic, launching it as you don't know what else to do, isn't.

Game set and match;
New balls please.

 

[Owlsmoor_Bee]

Two blokes almost came to blows over Simpson in the Braemar. One had been shouting at him all game, right in the ear of the bloke in front, who obviously didn't agree because just before Simpson was substituted he turned round and yelled 'shut the f**k up' in the bloke behind's face. Both sat sulking anrgily for the rest of the game. Funny what football can do to you!

I believe the group of us sitting just to their right were responsible for this. The bloke in question had spent the entire game slagging off most of the team, as he seems to do every game, but Simpson especially copped it this week. When he was eventually substituted the bloke called him every name under the sun and, unfortunately, we had enough and told him to shut up and try supporting. The chap in front of him had obviously been thinking this too and took his chance to tell him the same thing to general amusement and applause of several other fans who'd obviously also got fed up of hearing this bloke. lol

 

[NorthamptonBee]

I believe the group of us sitting just to their right were responsible for this. The bloke in question had spent the entire game slagging off most of the team, as he seems to do every game, but Simpson especially copped it this week. When he was eventually substituted the bloke called him every name under the sun and, unfortunately, we had enough and told him to shut up and try supporting. The chap in front of him had obviously been thinking this too and took his chance to tell him the same thing to general amusement and applause of several other fans who'd obviously also got fed up of hearing this bloke. lol

I go with you on this, I wanted to say something to my Simpson hater but am a bottle job with no balls. Beyond the comedy though, isn't it sad that the football is so crap that we are all up for having it away with our own fans.

 

[Braemar's Northoltian Bees]

I go with you on this, I wanted to say something to my Simpson hater but am a bottle job with no balls. Beyond the comedy though, isn't it sad that the football is so crap that we are all up for having it away with our own fans.

its not the footie tho is it,really.like we have had to put up with sh*t football in the past.and as for bees fans having it amongst emselves,though this one doesnt sound much like having it,its not new is it ? we have more between ouselves than we do with oppo fans

 

[Owlsmoor_Bee]

I go with you on this, I wanted to say something to my Simpson hater but am a bottle job with no balls. Beyond the comedy though, isn't it sad that the football is so crap that we are all up for having it away with our own fans.

The football and performance was dire on Tuesday, agreed, certainly the worst I've seen this season, maybe even the season before. All that aside though, there is simply no excuse in my book for spending match after match screamed expletives at the manager and players like this chap does. It's incredible and the bloke deserved the various mouthfulls he got.

We all get frustrated when we're crap, but there are limits of acceptability in how you vent that frustration IMO.

 

[hairman]

Some idiot along from me was 'supporting' Bournemouth from about the 8th minute. Unfortunately, as I couldn't tell where he was I ended up shouting at the wrong bloke to 'shut the f**k up'. :blush Speaking to others, it seems he does it on a regular basis. What enjoyment can he get out of that?

 

[SmiffyBee]

Some idiot along from me was 'supporting' Bournemouth from about the 8th minute. Unfortunately, as I couldn't tell where he was I ended up shouting at the wrong bloke to 'shut the f**k up'. :blush Speaking to others, it seems he does it on a regular basis. What enjoyment can he get out of that?

Has he relocated from Hartlepool ?

 

[ianbees1]

For Christ's sake, so it wasn't a classic but we have recently played Everton and Birmingham off the park. Just not sure what people expect here.

 

[Brentford St George]

Two blokes almost came to blows over Simpson in the Braemar. One had been shouting at him all game, right in the ear of the bloke in front, who obviously didn't agree because just before Simpson was substituted he turned round and yelled 'shut the f**k up' in the bloke behind's face. Both sat sulking anrgily for the rest of the game. Funny what football can do to you!

The bloke who sat abusing Simpson wearing the blue hat was strangely very quiet after that older bloke put him correctly in his place lol

The bloke who abused Simpson FYI abuses different players every week and it was only a matter of time before someone reacted.He spends 90 minutes berating them team and shouting utter tripe.

He got what he deserved in my opinion

 

[hatfieldbee]

Doovster's and my 'friend' in NR got spoken to again on Tuesday by a Senior Steward. This is at least the 2nd time this season since the dugouts crossed the pitch during the Summer. His crime? Giving Eddie Howe & Co some harmless stick during the 1st half. He was as quiet as a mouse afterwards, but what is GP coming to if you can't have a bit of banter with the away team's staff? The Assistant Mgr/Coach had an exchange in the 2nd half with another Bees' fan, with grins all round after. No reprimand on that occasion!

 

[paulyc31]

The bloke who sat abusing Simpson wearing the blue hat was strangely very quiet after that older bloke put him correctly in his place lol

The bloke who abused Simpson FYI abuses different players every week and it was only a matter of time before someone reacted.He spends 90 minutes berating them team and shouting utter tripe.

He got what he deserved in my opinion

Indeed. He is sat behind me and he spouts abuse at our players every home game. Fair play to the old fella because for the last half hour the guy didn't make a peep which was nice.

Having said that Griffin Park is becoming an increasingly frustrated place.