Bring Back The Stiffs?

[vcmazz]

Why haven't we got a reserve team? In a proper, competitive reserve league?

As someone (sorry I forget who) pointed out last night, it's important to stay in the cups as long as possible to give fringe players game time. That's all when and good unless we get knocked out at the first attempt in both cups, giving them two competitive games a year.

A competitive reserve league would give them regular game time and, as the first team now play in a league where you only have to play once every three or four months, we could actually go full on to try and win a bloody cup.

Seems too obvious. Someone is about to put me right. What am I missing?

 

[gbems92]

Surely the b team is the reserve team , mainly filled with young potential talents instead of crap players who arnt good enough for the first team. When players arnt deemed good enough they have stepped back to the b team, fosu and valencia for example have been playing for the b team until recently iirc

 

[smiffy superbee]

Why haven't we got a reserve team? In a proper, competitive reserve league?

As someone (sorry I forget who) pointed out last night, it's important to stay in the cups as long as possible to give fringe players game time. That's all when and good unless we get knocked out at the first attempt in both cups, giving them two competitive games a year.

A competitive reserve league would give them regular game time and, as the first team now play in a league where you only have to play once every three or four months, we could actually go full on to try and win a bloody cup.

Seems too obvious. Someone is about to put me right. What am I missing?

Agree ...the Football Combination games were very competitive, and a claim to fame (when we won!) ..... and then, after the First Team game, Brentford Town Juniors would follow, (and if you hadn't dashed off) you might talk about our next star! .... happy days!

 

[vcmazz]

Agree ...the Football Combination games were very competitive, and a claim to fame (when we won!) ..... and then, after the First Team game, Brentford Town Juniors would follow, (and if you hadn't dashed off) you might talk about our next star! .... happy days!

Slightly before my time. I'm more of a "Midweek League" man, where we would play Watford, Southend, Aldershot and Portsmouth on a constant loop. Even so, the ressies were trying their best to earn a first team slot and if a first teamer stood still for too long the following Saturday, they'd often earn one. Now, such players only get to play in practice matches or cup games that the first team really ought to be playing in. ?‍

 

[vcmazz]

Surely the b team is the reserve team , mainly filled with young potential talents instead of crap players who arnt good enough for the first team. When players arnt deemed good enough they have stepped back to the b team, fosu and valencia for example have been playing for the b team until recently iirc

No. Far from it. The B Team is a kids team - under 21 or summit? Of last night's starting eleven I think only Stevens is B Team? But most aren't regular first team starters either. They're halfway up the stairs. That's why I reckon we need a reserve team competing each week. Something to bridge the gap. I've seen enough of the B Team to know that not one of those players is capable of a Premier League performance yet. They need another stepping stone.

 

[AB]

Does an actual reserves league exist any more or has it had its place taken by the various age category academy-linked leagues? If the latter then I guess we’ll be in them to the extent that our academy qualifies for them. Seeing how the U21s of various PL teams haven’t set the world alight in the Papa Johns Trophy and the various local cups the B Team has entered seem before the finals to be at a very low standard I’m not sure it’s worth making much of a fuss over. Most if not all of our 25 man First Team squad when fit will be on a tight training schedule focusing on the next PL match so why chuck in regular reserves matches and disturb that rather than just letting those that would benefit go and play with the B Team now and again?

 

[jlove]

Why haven't we got a reserve team? In a proper, competitive reserve league?

As someone (sorry I forget who) pointed out last night, it's important to stay in the cups as long as possible to give fringe players game time. That's all when and good unless we get knocked out at the first attempt in both cups, giving them two competitive games a year.

A competitive reserve league would give them regular game time and, as the first team now play in a league where you only have to play once every three or four months, we could actually go full on to try and win a bloody cup.

Seems too obvious. Someone is about to put me right. What am I missing?

In which league do you imagine this team will compete?

 

[Mark H]

Why haven't we got a reserve team? In a proper, competitive reserve league?

As someone (sorry I forget who) pointed out last night, it's important to stay in the cups as long as possible to give fringe players game time. That's all when and good unless we get knocked out at the first attempt in both cups, giving them two competitive games a year.

A competitive reserve league would give them regular game time and, as the first team now play in a league where you only have to play once every three or four months, we could actually go full on to try and win a bloody cup.

Seems too obvious. Someone is about to put me right. What am I missing?

That was me??

 

[vcmazz]

In which league do you imagine this team will compete?

I've no idea? That's what I'm asking? Why isn't there one anymore? Would it not make sense to have one?

 

[Wise old Bee]

I used to go to the odd reserve game at GP back in the 60s when the first team was away at some northern outpost. I also used to like the Midweek league games in the 80s, used to sneak out of my office and turn up suited and booted in the Braemar seats after a couple in one of the pubs. I would go to the BCS for B team games as, I suspect, would quite a few others.

 

[hanworthbee]

In which league do you imagine this team will compete?

League two ?

 

[ruislip bee]

I'm thought the established clubs play a reserve side in a Prem League 2 or B or something like that or is that just for development sides?

 

[Bee(h)Iver]

With 9 named subs and 5 allowed it's important that the whole first team squad train together during the week. Can't start pulling half of them away to play in a meaningless match. Better we have a semi-regular behind closed doors game with the whole squad rather than this.

 

[BFC1997]

I'm thought the established clubs play a reserve side in a Prem League 2 or B or something like that or is that just for development sides?

That’s an U23 league (actually I think it’s been changed back to U21s now?), presumably you can have a few overaged players in each matchday squad though.

I think we are regularly playing BCD friendlies throughout the season as a “Brentford XI”. That is where fringe players are being kept sharp with minutes. Thomas Frank referred to one we played last week, in his post match interview from last night.

 

[vcmazz]

I used to go to the odd reserve game at GP back in the 60s when the first team was away at some northern outpost. I also used to like the Midweek league games in the 80s, used to sneak out of my office and turn up suited and booted in the Braemar seats after a couple in one of the pubs. I would go to the BCS for B team games as, I suspect, would quite a few others.

I too was often AWOL for Midweek League games, having bunked off school. I remember Dennis Piggott would often give me a stern word and a damn good finger wagging for running and not walking. Probably explains why I now sit in a derelict caravan in the middle of a field for 12 hours a night to earn a living. But I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[vcmazz]

That’s an U23 league (actually I think it’s been changed back to U21s now?), presumably you can have a few overaged players in each matchday squad though.

I think we are regularly playing BCD friendlies throughout the season as a “Brentford XI”. That is where fringe players are being kept sharp with minutes. Thomas Frank referred to one we played last week, in his post match interview from last night.

Well then why do they have to play in cup matches? The FA Cup used to be so prestigious - sometimes to the reverse extreme where teams would rest players if they had an important cup tie coming up! I miss the glamour of our cups and want it back. It was always the case on the continent, their cups have never been more than reserve team run outs as far back as my memory goes. I think it's a shame we followed suit.

 

[vcmazz]

With 9 named subs and 5 allowed it's important that the whole first team squad train together during the week. Can't start pulling half of them away to play in a meaningless match. Better we have a semi-regular behind closed doors game with the whole squad rather than this.

Tuesday nights? That's how it used to be done? Or afternoons in the winter (lights cost money). And it wasn't always meaningless. Sometimes we played Watford.

 

[rebus]

No. Far from it. The B Team is a kids team - under 21 or summit? Of last night's starting eleven I think only Stevens is B Team? But most aren't regular first team starters either. They're halfway up the stairs. That's why I reckon we need a reserve team competing each week. Something to bridge the gap. I've seen enough of the B Team to know that not one of those players is capable of a Premier League performance yet. They need another stepping stone.

We have nine subs on a matchday and a squad cap of 25 for players over 21 so this is for the birds I’m afraid.

The real issue is that academy football is not a great grounding for competitive football at the ages of 18-21 and it’s no wonder we originally pulled out six years ago.

We need limits on senior player registrations and a draft system a la NFL rather than tippy tappy academy football.

 

[vcmazz]

a draft system a la NFL

Now there's an idea on a stick. The rich would never allow it of course, but what a leveller that would be!

 

[Bee(h)Iver]

Tuesday nights? That's how it used to be done? Or afternoons in the winter (lights cost money). And it wasn't always meaningless. Sometimes we played Watford.

I just don't see it happening. For a start we play plenty of games on Sunday/Monday which rules out anyone involved on the bench. Secondly can you imagine the grief someone got crocked in one of these matches by some grizzled hardnut seeing out his last couple of years for Barnsley reserves?

 

[BFC1997]

Well then why do they have to play in cup matches? The FA Cup used to be so prestigious - sometimes to the reverse extreme where teams would rest players if they had an important cup tie coming up! I miss the glamour of our cups and want it back. It was always the case on the continent, their cups have never been more than reserve team run outs as far back as my memory goes. I think it's a shame we followed suit.

It’s not so much that they have to, although obviously it helps to keep them happy the more competitive minutes you give them.

It’s more that the early stages of these competitions allow for key players who will otherwise not get a rest throughout the season to drop out of the squad.

I think our performances in the League Cup for the last couple of years show that we do take it seriously. I guess the problem is that you can go full strength from the early stages and it’s all well and good until you’re drawn against a Man City and then it feels like it’s all been in vain. FWIW, they’ve won it 6 out of the last 8 years. Liverpool and Chelsea the other two times.

 

[Beat Poet]

A Brentford XI played plenty of friendlies last season, so I expect that to continue.

 

[BFC1997]

We have nine subs on a matchday and a squad cap of 25 for players over 21 so this is for the birds I’m afraid.

The real issue is that academy football is not a great grounding for competitive football at the ages of 18-21 and it’s no wonder we originally pulled out six years ago.

We need limits on senior player registrations and a draft system a la NFL rather than tippy tappy academy football.

Jack Harrison is one example of a player who dropped out of the academy system in the UK (having been with Liverpool and United) and joined the US College Soccer system, being picked up by NYCFC in the MLS Draft before transferring to Man City, then Leeds. He’s done fairly well and subject of a fair bit of interest this window.

 

[vcmazz]

It’s not so much that they have to, although obviously it helps to keep them happy the more competitive minutes you give them.

It’s more that the early stages of these competitions allow for key players who will otherwise not get a rest throughout the season to drop out of the squad.

I think our performances in the League Cup for the last couple of years show that we do take it seriously. I guess the problem is that you can go full strength from the early stages and it’s all well and good until you’re drawn against a Man City and then it feels like it’s all been in vain. FWIW, they’ve won it 6 out of the last 8 years. Liverpool and Chelsea the other two times.

Yeah I get it. But I miss old cup football mate. It was so exciting. Back in the 70's your second game of the season was usually the Tuesday night following your Saturday league opener in the 1st round of the League Cup, and the gate was usually bigger than your first league match. I remember early 80's (1983 possibly?) Liverpool coming down to GP with a team full of superstars in the League Cup. It was just electric that night. No question of them resting Dalglish. And no way we were putting some sub in for Trevor Swinburne. It meant something so much more back then.

 

[jlove]

As usual in English culture, any talk of the future ends up in the past.

What we have in the present is a B Team that play games outside any league that are arranged to give them experience much more varied than PL2, which is clearly not very useful in development. These games are often used to give first team players a run out but some seem to be against other Premier League teams "reserves", so not B Team games at all.

So @vcmazz's objective is almost achieved, just not in a competitive league and a Tuesday after-school distraction.

 

[vcmazz]

As usual in English culture, any talk of the future ends up in the past.

What we have in the present is a B Team that play games outside any league that are arranged to give them experience much more varied than PL2, which is clearly not very useful in development. These games are often used to give first team players a run out but some seem to be against other Premier League teams "reserves", so not B Team games at all.

So @vcmazz's objective is almost achieved, just not in a competitive league and a Tuesday after-school distraction.

I enjoyed that post. It has merit and you've seen right through my nostalgia. Which, did you know, until the late 19th century, was classified as a disease? ? However. I've seen enough Brentford B to know the gap between that level and League Two (forget the Prem) is massive. Non Brentford B fringe players sit on their arses until it's time to devalue a cup competition. For which I have a certain, oh never mind. Which is why I remain convinced we need something in between as a stepping stone. But wide open to being persuaded otherwise.

 

[LboroBee]

…Better we have a semi-regular behind closed doors….

I agree, always best to have a semi behind closed doors

 

[TadB]

Agree ...the Football Combination games were very competitive, and a claim to fame (when we won!) ..... and then, after the First Team game, Brentford Town Juniors would follow, (and if you hadn't dashed off) you might talk about our next star! .... happy days!

As someone who unfortunately is old enough not only to have watched some of those matches, but thankfully still able to remember them I have to disagree. I thought that they were far from competitive. in the days when footballers wages were poor, the reserve team was full of players who were never likely ever to play in the first team, and appeared to be completely disinterested, even though there was by todays standards a half decent crowd.

 

[kewbee]

As someone who unfortunately is old enough not only to have watched some of those matches, but thankfully still able to remember them I have to disagree. I thought that they were far from competitive. in the days when footballers wages were poor, the reserve team was full of players who were never likely ever to play in the first team, and appeared to be completely disinterested, even though there was by todays standards a half decent crowd.

Beating Chelsea in the London Challenge Cup final at Griffin Park in 1965. Great night.

 

[peterbees]

Beating Chelsea in the London Challenge Cup final at Griffin Park in 1965. Great night.

Was Peter Osgood playing that night ? I think I might have been there, but Osgood is all I can remember. I was only 7yrs old.

 

[HantsBee]

Micky Ball who played for our reserves back in the 60's used to turn up for games in his builder's van and had as much chance of getting into the first team as me... the reserves were often made up of non league players but as a young teenager I enjoyed going along and having a chat behind the goal with Fred Ryecraft and if I had sweets with me he would always ponce them off me.

 

[kewbee]

Was Peter Osgood playing that night ? I think I might have been there, but Osgood is all I can remember. I was only 7yrs old.

Osgood played and scored. Summers and Block scored for the Bees. Mickey Ball was on the wing and Gerry Cakebread who never turned pro was in goal. Gerry of course was an outstanding goalkeeper who played over 300 first team games whilst working at the Admiralty.