Brickie Chap
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Rogers stays as long as we owe money to Noades. Seem to remember a post to this effect not so long ago. We cant repay him and ask him to f**k off.
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Why can't we appoint another 4 directors from the BU stable?
I asked BB some time ago whether or not there was an agreement with the other funders about the number of directors BU could have on the BFC Board and was told there is not. So that leaves me wondering why we don't do it.
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Quite right.
I was prepared to pay Rogers off and drop kick him back to Purley but was advised at the end of December 2005 that Bees United had already done a deal with Rogers and Herting that their loans were extended to five years (formerly on demand) and that Rogers almost certainly wouldn't accept to be paid off 'cos he wished to remain as a director. I was also advised that the deal was that if I paid off Rogers and possibly Herting then I couldn't do that unless I paid off the Altonwood loans first.
I made my excuses and left.
longdistancebee
Active member
jlove
Well-known member
BU Blog
However Chris Gammon did bring some bite-size milky-ways and someone brought some cans of coke.
Why was this blatant attempt to exert undue influence over certain sweet-eating and carbonated sugar beverage drinking board members exposed in your original report?
BU Blog
I wanted to keep it a secret but you forced my hand
Now they'll probably never appear again forcing me to miss the train at Waterloo for a refuel.
BU Blog
According to the "Agenda" for Wednesdays meeting posted on the BU website, the following items were also due up for discussion (amongst others).
The GP Redevelopment
The New Stadium
I'd be far more interesting in hearing some "blog" material or feedback from the meeting on these more important issues . I also can't believe that merely telling us that the playing budget including injury reserve has been "spent" is as much as we can be told. Surely there was a bit more debate on that or was it a case of "we've been asked to tell you its been spent. Now lets move onto the next item"?. I doubt it. Did anyone ask if Reading are now paying all of Cox's wages now he has gone back to them.............or is Wijnhard on a pay per play deal....................what is the score with getting compo out of Ghana? etc etc.......
As well as some things we have been told (unnecessarily), perhaps comment is warranted on here about some of the things that have not been reported back!
...............or do we have to wait for the minutes?
The GP Redevelopment
The New Stadium
I'd be far more interesting in hearing some "blog" material or feedback from the meeting on these more important issues . I also can't believe that merely telling us that the playing budget including injury reserve has been "spent" is as much as we can be told. Surely there was a bit more debate on that or was it a case of "we've been asked to tell you its been spent. Now lets move onto the next item"?. I doubt it. Did anyone ask if Reading are now paying all of Cox's wages now he has gone back to them.............or is Wijnhard on a pay per play deal....................what is the score with getting compo out of Ghana? etc etc.......
As well as some things we have been told (unnecessarily), perhaps comment is warranted on here about some of the things that have not been reported back!
...............or do we have to wait for the minutes?
BU Blog
Re The GP Redevelopment - we were asked to keep details about that to ourselves for commercial reasons. Hopefully there will be some news on this in the very near future.
As for the new stadium, I'm not sure what's confidential and what isn't. There are meeting/presentations planned with the Rail Minister and Ken Livingstone in the near future and we were told that we will know by the end of the year whether the project is a go-er or not.
I don't believe that the BU Board should be getting involved in the minute detail of the BFC budget so I can't tell you Wijnhard wage details. Regarding the compo for Owusu I understand that one of the BFC directors is talking with UEFA about the situation, but whether that path will bear fruit is dependent on whether or not the match was UEFA santioned or not. This is news from weeks ago, before I joined the BU Board.
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...Look PJ....you and JTofBFC (and also shaggy in a more subtle way that is not lost on me) have issues with Banana. I don't care about that......you can kick the sh*t out of him for all I care and if he is wrong I'll happily put the boot in myself (preferably when he is down and sobbing on the floor 'cos he's bigger than me) and after you guys and the BYE have finished with him.......but this is not a good issue to have you all polishing your respective coshes.
I don't have anything against banana at all, but I think this is actually a good issue to demonstrate completely different opinions about what we want from BU and its board members.
To start with, I didn't miss the fact that Trev didn't say anything overtly negative about PW, or that it was you who reacted. If Trev had questionned what reaction he expected from his comment about PW, your reaction was not only predictable, it was entirely probable - in fact I would have been stunned if it hadn't happened. Therefore, expecting a negative reaction towards PW, I think its entirely reasonable to question what he thought was going to be achieved by posting it.
More generally on BU, I don't want Trev (or Mark, or anyone else) going to BU board meetings in "investigative reporter" mode. I want BU board members going to board meetings in "everything I say, every subject I raise, and every vote I make will clearly contribute to the success of BU" -mode. Correction - I want board members to ALWAYS be in that mode.
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If BU own the majority shareholding they absolutely CAN force the board of BFC to do almost anything - they just need to get a shareholders resolution in an AGM/EGM/SGM, and their majority ownership will mean it gets passed almost automatically (there are a few exceptions where minority shareholders can challenge decisions in court, but only if it is blatantly unfair).
I'm not an expert on the BU constitution, but I would have thought that a motion passed by the BU board would be sufficient to FORCE BB (and BFC) to get that BFC resolution issued and carried. Failing that, a vote of the members.
If you go down this path and people (BB, BFC directors, whoever) object, then they resign. So, just make sure its an important issue that you want to force everyone's hand on, because you may find you get your reolution passed and have no leadership figures left.
For what its worth, I can't think of a single issue to date that I would want the BFC board to be so publically overuled on.
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lol lol
..........which is I suppose why you came last in the recent election.......as entirely predictable as was my pricking of Wheatleys pompous bubble.
BU Blog
lol lol
..........which is I suppose why you came last in the recent election.......as entirely predictable as was my pricking of Wheatleys pompous bubble.
yep! Doesn't mean it was wrong to stand, but I certainly wasn't betting the house on sweeping to victory!
I still think its an important point though. A lot of "whingers" (yourself included) constantly snipe from the sidelines about BU's performance (often with justification, I must confess). I am worried that you guys just want BU board members who can snipe more publically (eg Trev), whereas I want BU board members who will make the sniping unwarranted in the first place.
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yep! Doesn't mean it was wrong to stand, but I certainly wasn't betting the house on sweeping to victory!
I still think its an important point though. A lot of "whingers" (yourself included) constantly snipe from the sidelines about BU's performance (often with justification, I must confess). I am worried that you guys just want BU board members who can snipe more publically (eg Trev), whereas I want BU board members who will make the sniping unwarranted in the first place.
Trevor's "blog" raised a number of interesting arguments. If Trevor had not posted his "blog" most people would be unaware that the playing budget and the injury budget had all been spent. I was well aware of that anyway but as the budget for the season (including the contingency for injuries) had all been spent before the middle of September do you believe that he should have "blogged" this subject or not. For myself I couldn't care less whether Trevor "blogs" or not as I knew most of the stuff anyway having a nominee on the BFC board and where one of the agreed conditions for my loan is that I have if I wish it access to the BFC board papers, management accounts etc. I just shrugged.
However I do have a stake in BU's performance but I have posted more than once in the past that I believe that BU should now just concentrate on fundraising having surrendered its right to a majority on the BFC board. Banana (and possibly Nurse Betty judging by her post) seem inclined to the view that since the present BFC board is weighted 5-4 against BU nominees then why don't BU just nominate two further names for the BFC board and the argument is over. The BU nominated directors would then always have the majority vote on the BFC board and I happen to believe that most contributors to Bees United thought that this was how it was gonna be.
Me.......I think that the whole structure is ridiculous.....and I suppose that you can put this down as a another "snipe/whine" whatever you wish to call it. A thirteen man BU board and a nine man (rising to ten when Keith Dickens gets on after his probationary period) BFC board looking after a small leisure business with a turnover of £3million. What is needed is a small executive of say three (including Keith Dickens) to make the decisions and generally get on with it. That argument can also apply to Bees United where it is already in place but the members just haven't been told yet.
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David, I take it that you and the other three all stood for the BU board because you individually believed that you could improve its function.
You put me down as a "whinger/sniper" and that's your take......I've been called worse things on here which is why I shut down my PM facility.
I'll give you one example which concerned me regarding the post take-over Bees United. I happened to believe that there was a window of opportunity for fundraising immediately following January 20. To assist this I offered to incentivise a membership/standing order drive by matching any new members who signed standing orders of at least £10 per month up to a commitment by me with a ceiling of £5,000. Thus if BU had signed up forty new members with standing orders of £10 per month each that would have given them £4,800 in the first twelve months from the new members and £4,800 from me. Rod Gowers got in touch almost immediately and said that he wanted to build something around that but then Rod resigned for well publicised reasons. Several months passed and I heard not a word until Nurse Betty contacted me and asked if my offer still stood. I said yes of course but I thought that the momentum had gone out of Bees United. I haven't heard a word since and of course I understand that the reality David is that Bees United is now a "big boys only" club. They won't tell you that but you must have worked it out for yourself. The bucket monies, Stripes functions, Quiz nights matter very little in the scheme of things.....it's wonderful that people wish to do their bit but the numbers have always been so big in relation to turnover that a substantial re-financing is needed.
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Hi abee,
noticed your posting above and just wanted to make sure you were aware that this offer had gone out with the membership renewal correspondence back in June. See below:
http://www.beesunited.org.uk/2006/memberrenewal040706.php
PS:
See below for how it is done in the Premiership:
http://www.charlton-athletic.co.uk/directors.ink
Edmundo
Whinging pom
Brickie Chap
Muppet Hunter
BU Blog
No I hadn't Joe but it's not very well worded is it.
I thought that it was for £10 per month minimum (and not "over £10 per month) and it gives the impression that if one or more persons take out a standing order of £5,000 per month then I'll match it..........I hope Roman Abramovitch is not reading this.
"I don't care too much for money" (copyright Paul McCartney)..... but if mrs abee reads this stuff about £5000 (per month????) then my life expectancy can be measured in microseconds.
I hadn't realised that we had either based our structure on a Premiership model or were looking at Charlton as an example but that's very interesting.......BFC seems extraordinarily top heavy to me all the same but I'm not involved and it's not my problem.
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BU Blog
abee, surely if its worth insulting someone its worth doing it in public??
I didn't say it to be offensive - I said it because its become quite fashionable in the cesspit of vitriol to have a pop at BU/BB/etc. I might not agree with all your comments about how BU ought to be run, but I do understand your logic (and appreciate the financial contribution). However, the vast majority of the whingers have made little (if any) effort to suggest solutions to the problems. Eg, Lots of whinging about BB, but no-ones made a serious suggestion as to who would be better.
I think its likely to be an unmitigated disaster if BU has a majority on the BFC board. I am MUCH happier with a team of professionals on the BFC board. BU still has the ability to overule the club board (via its majority shareholding) if it really needs to, but to go further we risk the club being run like some kind of working mens social club. We'll be bankrupt quicker than you could say "Bosman".
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abee, surely if its worth insulting someone its worth doing it in public??
I didn't say it to be offensive - I said it because its become quite fashionable in the cesspit of vitriol to have a pop at BU/BB/etc. I might not agree with all your comments about how BU ought to be run, but I do understand your logic (and appreciate the financial contribution). However, the vast majority of the whingers have made little (if any) effort to suggest solutions to the problems. Eg, Lots of whinging about BB, but no-ones made a serious suggestion as to who would be better.
I think its likely to be an unmitigated disaster if BU has a majority on the BFC board. I am MUCH happier with a team of professionals on the BFC board. BU still has the ability to overule the club board (via its majority shareholding) if it really needs to, but to go further we risk the club being run like some kind of working mens social club. We'll be bankrupt quicker than you could say "Bosman".
I don't follow your logic David. Bees United has appointed three persons to the BFC board being Messrs Dyke, Burgess and Bourke. In addition Jon Gosling was elected and I accept happily that all four are "professionals" as you term them. Are you suggesting that there are not two other "professionals" within the BU membership that could not do a job on the BFC board.......how about you for example. As sure as God made little apples you will be on the BU board and the BFC board probably in my life time unless BU starts issuing further notices to members suggesting that I am willing to match standing orders from new members up to £5,000 per month.......in which case my tombstone will probably read "Shot Dead October 2006".
On the other side we have Messrs Rogers and Herting who lets face it have a far from glorious "track record" during their respective tenures as BFC directors and it is the votes of these two which could technically outvote the BU appointed directors. You are relaxed with that........I'm not.
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I don't follow your logic David. Bees United has appointed three persons to the BFC board being Messrs Dyke, Burgess and Bourke. In addition Jon Gosling was elected and I accept happily that all four are "professionals" as you term them. Are you suggesting that there are not two other "professionals" within the BU membership that could not do a job on the BFC board.......how about you for example. As sure as God made little apples you will be on the BU board and the BFC board probably in my life time unless BU starts issuing further notices to members suggesting that I am willing to match standing orders from new members up to £5,000 per month.......in which case my tombstone will probably read "Shot Dead October 2006".
On the other side we have Messrs Rogers and Herting who lets face it have a far from glorious "track record" during their respective tenures as BFC directors and it is the votes of these two which could technically outvote the BU appointed directors. You are relaxed with that........I'm not.
I remain more relaxed with the performance of the current BFC board as a whole, than I do with performance of the current BU board as a whole.
Rod Gowers
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I remain more relaxed with the performance of the current BFC board as a whole, than I do with performance of the current BU board as a whole.
The BFC board have a function- ie to run the club.
The BU board have yet to work out what their function, aims and responsibilities are.
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
BU Blog
To raise money and to protect their shareholding. Everything else if BFC, who have BU representatives to act on behalf of the BU members. Is there anymore to it than that?
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agree. My fear is that in their search they say "oooh, I know, why don't we run the club". :hang myself smilie:
Rod Gowers
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100% correct Les.
However, until BU as a collective whole understand this they have no function.
It is fine for board members/ prospective board members and even (gasp) ex-board members to suggest BU needs to communicate better, but the real issue is what to communicate when you have no function. Sometimes no news means what it says. No news.
BU bogs itself down in words, titles etc.
What it should say is
A)Why we need to raise money.
B How much money we need to raise.
C) When do we need it by.
D) How can we achieve it.
They can then communicate this to the BU populace and other interested parties at large, and thus properly engage them in what they are trying to achieve.
What BU actually does is
A) Notice they have no money.
B) Think up a catchy title ( Back the Bees)
C) Say what it is (A money making scheme- Da! Da!)
D) Wait for everyone to say "Wow, back the Bees, let's throw all our hard earned cash at it."
E) Return to A) whilst scratching collective heads.
It is't easy to raise money for a "failing" organisation, but unless you focus on the problem as a major priority you won't raise any significant funds.
Fundraising must be a collective BU priority with all BU board members actively and totally involved. (If they are not prepared to be, they shouldn't be on the BU board).Not the work of one person asked to head up a committee running separately from the BU executive.
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I fear it because of the amount of questions on here about relatively detailed BFC operational/budgetary issues that are directed at the BU board, rather than people like Mr Gosling (for example).
Under that pressure I think it will be very easy for the BU board to question more and more detail about BFC operations, to the point where they are running it by proxy. As I said in my (failed) election campaign I think that will be disastrous.
BU Blog
I don't think anyone on the BU Board thinks we run the club. We do get a report from those BU Board Members that sit on the BFC Board about financials and major operational issues. However this didn't stop two points being raised in AOB on minor BFC operation issues - doormen on the Princess Royal and the ticketing policy at GP for away fans
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
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Does BU have a process for passing such questions to BFC via the BU reps? If not, shouldn't one exist so that the BU board meetings can be more focussed?
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I don't know why they can't be asked directly to the club. There is no need for them to be raised at BU Board meeting in my opinion.
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
BU Blog
I suppose it depends on the question. If it's just an enqury, fine, but if it's a concern rasied on behalf of the members then I asssumed that there would be a formal way of bringing this to the attention of the BU reps. AOB after a 4 hour meeting doesn't seem appropriate.
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There doesn't have to be a formal way for chickenshit items to be brought to the attention of the BU reps. An email to [email protected] should do, or a chat with one of them next time you see them.
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
BU Blog
What if you're in dispute with the club about said chickenshit item or you feel that, as a member, BU are there to represent you? BTW, this is all hypothetical.
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This is exactly what worries me.
BU exists to secure the long term future of the club. Members who think BU is some kind of fan union to represent supporters on minor issues will stop it achieving its objective.
The hypothetical supporter should take his hypothetical issue either direct to the club, or to BIAS.
PS. Banana, is "chickenshit" defined in the BU constitution?
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
BU Blog
Is BIAS represented on the BU board (in an official capacity)? Should it be, as a means of filtering supporter enquiries into the BIAS organisation. Any finally, does BIAS have regular meetings with BFC or are they all ad-hoc?
I'm bored now - I won't ask any more questions - I don't why I started really - slow day in the office I guess.
I'm bored now - I won't ask any more questions - I don't why I started really - slow day in the office I guess.
BU Blog
PS. Banana, is "chickenshit" defined in the BU constitution?
I'll point it out to you when you point out to me where the BU Constitution says under objectives "to secure the lnog-term future of Brentford Football Club"
Rod Gowers
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I'll point it out to you when you point out to me where the BU Constitution says under objectives "to secure the lnog-term future of Brentford Football Club"
A tongue in cheek quote i know, but perhaps about time the objectives were re-written, or more importantly re-prioritised?
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I believe I posted earlier in the thread that the entire Constitution is being reviewed over the next 12 months.
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Lokster
Man on a Mission
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No, BIAS are not represented on the BU board, although we have sent an observer along. I do not know whether we need to formalise this arrangement or not.
No, we don't have regular meetings with BFC. So far they have been organised as and when an issue has emerged. There has been talk of regular meetings but so far this has not been formalised.
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
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Thanks for that. Looks like anyone with a chickenshit issue is on there Jack Jones then. BTW, does anyone, BIAs or BU, think that the well-documented problems in Brook Road are a matter for attention and discussion with BFC?
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No they are not. If they don't get any luck with the club then there are both Jon Gosling (who is the supporters' elected representative on the board and holds regular surgeries) AND BIAS.
Lokster
Man on a Mission
BU Blog
We have actually raised them with the club already and were told that it was being looked into.
This seems to have led to nothing happening so...we will raise it again and I'll let you know what the response is.
This seems to have led to nothing happening so...we will raise it again and I'll let you know what the response is.
BU Blog
I remain more relaxed with the performance of the current BFC board as a whole, than I do with performance of the current BU board as a whole.
lol lol
Kerchunk........can we put that down then to one board having an experienced chairman who knows what chairing meetings is all about and the other... erm.........erm.....
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This is exactly what worries me.
BU exists to secure the long term future of the club. Members who think BU is some kind of fan union to represent supporters on minor issues will stop it achieving its objective.
The hypothetical supporter should take his hypothetical issue either direct to the club, or to BIAS.
PS. Banana, is "chickenshit" defined in the BU constitution?
.......but if Bees United doesn't have enough "professionals" available to even think of adding any numbers to the BFC board to provide a majority (see shaggy passim) then how on earth are these erm......amateurs gonna secure the long term future of the Club.
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.......but if Bees United doesn't have enough "professionals" available to even think of adding any numbers to the BFC board to provide a majority (see shaggy passim) then how on earth are these erm......amateurs gonna secure the long term future of the Club.
I believe one of the highly respected and renowned contributors to this message board has already provided the answer... by raising funds.
Oh... that was you.
BU Blog
I believe one of the highly respected and renowned contributors to this message board has already provided the answer... by raising funds.
Oh... that was you.
Wrong on all three counts........
I was gently making the point shaggy that you bang on about "whingers and snipers" taking pot shots at the Bees United board and then you tell us that you are much happier with the performance of the BFC board (resident comedians Rogers and Herting) than the BU board........all I can say is that were I on a holding company board that according to you failed to meet the performance of a subsidiaries board that included Rogers and Herting then I would be contemplating life through the bottom of a whisky bottle and reaching for my revolver.
I really have no idea what you believe in or what you want frankly. You have tried to get onto both the BFC and BU boards during 2006 and narrowly missed out both times. As I posted earlier in this thread you will no doubt finish up on both boards sooner or later. The difference between you and me David is that I did not feel that I had anything to offer to the BFC board and I found someone who I believed could do a much better job than I in David Heath. I thought that was what it was all about......not the Rogers and Herting way of buying a seat to add to their prestige or having a title or whatever. I thought that it was all about providing monies to the club and then helping the club put together the best team possible.
I did not believe that my presence would have benefitted the BFC board given the way that it and the holding company board was structured; you believe that yours would and I have to respect that.
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I think shaggy was having a gentle dig, as he has suggested elsewhere that other BU Board members haven't commented on this thread because "Probably that they need to maintain a working relationship with everyone else on the new board?". Have I got this wrong shaggy?
Mind you northants bee went on to say that I didn't represent all the facts and luckily Nurse Betty has corrected them. I can't find these corrections. So northants, if you could oblige please - I'd be ever so grateful.
Mind you northants bee went on to say that I didn't represent all the facts and luckily Nurse Betty has corrected them. I can't find these corrections. So northants, if you could oblige please - I'd be ever so grateful.
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Yes I read that as well and shaggy suggesting that the reason that chappers and northants bee had not joined in on this thread was they clearly disapproved and wanted to keep a working relationship with the other members of the BU board....conclusion.......you are antagonising all of the little darlings on the BU board and they are likely to burst into tears and cry for their mummies if you keep this up. And yet when I posted a few days ago that certain posters (including shaggy) had issues with you he sort of backed off.
I too went looking for Nurse Betty's "correction" post and drew the same blank as you.