Cheating

larrysigny

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Cheating

Seen on website from the D.Mirror:
Had Glenn Nyberg awarded a penalty after Gabriel handled David Raya’s goal-kick in Tuesday night’s Champions League match at the Emirates, it would have been interesting to see the reaction of Thomas Tuchel, head coach of grand, old, noble Bayern Munich.

We know what Harry Kane’s reaction would have been - plant the ball on the spot, wait for Raya to dive ludicrously early and roll in his umpteenth goal of the season. But Bayern has always prided itself on being a principled institution. How would taking a goal from the most innocent, most rare, most hapless of mix-ups have sat with the spirit of the game?


They could not have refused to take the penalty, and good luck trying to tell Kane to deliberately miss it. But had it been given and converted, would Tuchel have told his players to allow Arsenal to score?

We all know the answer to that one, and Tuchel’s post-match comments confirmed it. In fact, the above scenario is utterly preposterous … in the way that the idea that there remains any sort of ‘spirit of the game’ is equally preposterous.

Certainly not at elite level, where elite cheats have never been so numerous. The biggest malfunction of the VAR system and the disciplinary process is that it is not getting rid of the constant con-artistry that has long been a plague on the professional game.

Take the Ben White incident at Brighton last weekend. The only repercussion for White from his shameless, pathetic play-acting was ridicule on social media. At the end of the match, Pervis Estupinan shook White’s hand. Why? There was only one thing White was trying to do, Pervis, and that was to get you, a fellow professional, sent off.


But Estupinan was merely accepting what every player now seems to accept. Cheating is part of the game. There is no concept of fair play. There is no honour.

Honour, to varying extent, still exists in other sports. One of the most famous quotes in golf came from Bobby Jones in 1925 when he called a penalty on himself during the first round of the US Open, which he ended up losing in a play-off.

Fullscreen button


Ben White, of Arsenal, tussles with Brighton's Pervis Estupinan

Ben White, of Arsenal, tussles with Brighton's Pervis Estupinan© Getty Images
When praised for his sportsmanship and honesty, Jones disdainfully replied: “You might as well praise me for not robbing a bank.” And golf still has a code of honour, while snooker players also call fouls on themselves.

Obviously, footballers cannot do that - but they could stop trying to get their fellow pros sent off by duping officials. That would be a start. But, of course, they will not, because cheating has become the instinctive norm. Or has long been the norm.


From limited dealings with the young man, there is no nicer guy in football than Bukayo Saka. But there he was on Tuesday night, having to be dragged away from Nyberg, raging at the Swedish referee for not awarding Arsenal a last-second penalty, which was ironic considering the official’s leniency over the Raya-Gabriel mix-up.

In those dying moments, Saka went out of his way to kick Manuel Neuer's leg, simple as that. The estimable Nyberg was not conned, no penalty, and no big deal in the grand scheme of things. Just a reminder that even the nicest are not immune to football’s plague of con-artistry. Sad.

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Cheating

Seen on website from the D.Mirror:
Had Glenn Nyberg awarded a penalty after Gabriel handled David Raya’s goal-kick in Tuesday night’s Champions League match at the Emirates, it would have been interesting to see the reaction of Thomas Tuchel, head coach of grand, old, noble Bayern Munich.

We know what Harry Kane’s reaction would have been - plant the ball on the spot, wait for Raya to dive ludicrously early and roll in his umpteenth goal of the season. But Bayern has always prided itself on being a principled institution. How would taking a goal from the most innocent, most rare, most hapless of mix-ups have sat with the spirit of the game?


They could not have refused to take the penalty, and good luck trying to tell Kane to deliberately miss it. But had it been given and converted, would Tuchel have told his players to allow Arsenal to score?

We all know the answer to that one, and Tuchel’s post-match comments confirmed it. In fact, the above scenario is utterly preposterous … in the way that the idea that there remains any sort of ‘spirit of the game’ is equally preposterous.

Certainly not at elite level, where elite cheats have never been so numerous. The biggest malfunction of the VAR system and the disciplinary process is that it is not getting rid of the constant con-artistry that has long been a plague on the professional game.

Take the Ben White incident at Brighton last weekend. The only repercussion for White from his shameless, pathetic play-acting was ridicule on social media. At the end of the match, Pervis Estupinan shook White’s hand. Why? There was only one thing White was trying to do, Pervis, and that was to get you, a fellow professional, sent off.


But Estupinan was merely accepting what every player now seems to accept. Cheating is part of the game. There is no concept of fair play. There is no honour.

Honour, to varying extent, still exists in other sports. One of the most famous quotes in golf came from Bobby Jones in 1925 when he called a penalty on himself during the first round of the US Open, which he ended up losing in a play-off.

Fullscreen button


Ben White, of Arsenal, tussles with Brighton's Pervis Estupinan's Pervis Estupinan

Ben White, of Arsenal, tussles with Brighton's Pervis Estupinan© Getty Images
When praised for his sportsmanship and honesty, Jones disdainfully replied: “You might as well praise me for not robbing a bank.” And golf still has a code of honour, while snooker players also call fouls on themselves.

Obviously, footballers cannot do that - but they could stop trying to get their fellow pros sent off by duping officials. That would be a start. But, of course, they will not, because cheating has become the instinctive norm. Or has long been the norm.


From limited dealings with the young man, there is no nicer guy in football than Bukayo Saka. But there he was on Tuesday night, having to be dragged away from Nyberg, raging at the Swedish referee for not awarding Arsenal a last-second penalty, which was ironic considering the official’s leniency over the Raya-Gabriel mix-up.

In those dying moments, Saka went out of his way to kick Manuel Neuer's leg, simple as that. The estimable Nyberg was not conned, no penalty, and no big deal in the grand scheme of things. Just a reminder that even the nicest are not immune to football’s plague of con-artistry. Sad.

Join our new WhatsApp community and receive your daily dose of Mirror Football content. We also treat our community members to special offers, promotions, and adverts from us and our partners. If you don't like our community, you can check out any time you like. If you're curious, you can read our Privacy Notice.
True story, played for Chertsey Old Salesians against Corinthian Casuals in a cup game mid 80’s.
The ref gave a penalty against our keeper who came out to the edge of his box in a one on one with their centre forward.
He dived at his feet and took the ball cleanly but he was 6ft 4 and 15 stone so the nippy winger flew up in the air on impact and the ref blew for a pen.
Des the keeper was beside himself as took the ball as clean as you like but the ref was having none of it. We launched into their player and captain asking where was the Corinthian spirit now and they were cheats.
Anyway after a conflab they told the ref that the player thought the keeper took the ball cleanly and no penalty. Ref was arrogant and dismissed their views and awarded the pen.

Their captain stepped up and from the spot kick passed the ball back to our keeper.
We won 1-0 and it made the national newspapers next day, that was about 1985/86 so long before we had the playing for penalties that is part and parcel now.
 

Cheating

True story, played for Chertsey Old Salesians against Corinthian Casuals in a cup game mid 80’s.
The ref gave a penalty against our keeper who came out to the edge of his box in a one on one with their centre forward.
He dived at his feet and took the ball cleanly but he was 6ft 4 and 15 stone so the nippy winger flew up in the air on impact and the ref blew for a pen.
Des the keeper was beside himself as took the ball as clean as you like but the ref was having none of it. We launched into their player and captain asking where was the Corinthian spirit now and they were cheats.
Anyway after a conflab they told the ref that the player thought the keeper took the ball cleanly and no penalty. Ref was arrogant and dismissed their views and awarded the pen.

Their captain stepped up and from the spot kick passed the ball back to our keeper.
We won 1-0 and it made the national newspapers next day, that was about 1985/86 so long before we had the playing for penalties that is part and parcel now.
This thread is about cheating not sportsmanship and bullying
 

Cheating

Just spat my coffee out you buffoon, me a bully how very dare you. I prefer honest and forthright ???
Swindon away when you refused to sit down blocking some old ****s view………….
 

Cheating

Admittedly you did look dapper and may have been pheasant shooting prior to the game
 

Cheating

True story, played for Chertsey Old Salesians against Corinthian Casuals in a cup game mid 80’s.
The ref gave a penalty against our keeper who came out to the edge of his box in a one on one with their centre forward.
He dived at his feet and took the ball cleanly but he was 6ft 4 and 15 stone so the nippy winger flew up in the air on impact and the ref blew for a pen.
Des the keeper was beside himself as took the ball as clean as you like but the ref was having none of it. We launched into their player and captain asking where was the Corinthian spirit now and they were cheats.
Anyway after a conflab they told the ref that the player thought the keeper took the ball cleanly and no penalty. Ref was arrogant and dismissed their views and awarded the pen.

Their captain stepped up and from the spot kick passed the ball back to our keeper.
We won 1-0 and it made the national newspapers next day, that was about 1985/86 so long before we had the playing for penalties that is part and parcel now.
Having read the first post, I was just about to quote this story which you told me when we watched our two girls play against each other at CC, years ago.
 

Cheating

To take umbrage with cheating in modern football is like being incredulous that snakes bite.
Its always been there. It will always be there. It is what it is.
I dont like it. You can get upset about it, or perhaps revel in the comic ironic tragedy when it benefits your team one week, then confounds them the next. But its just there. Like taxes.
There is no moral high ground on this from anyone's perspective I'd suggest.
 

Cheating

To take umbrage with cheating in modern football is like being incredulous that snakes bite.
Its always been there. It will always be there. It is what it is.
I dont like it. You can get upset about it, or perhaps revel in the comic ironic tragedy when it benefits your team one week, then confounds them the next. But its just there. Like taxes.
There is no moral high ground on this from anyone's perspective I'd suggest.
But it hasn’t always been there to the extent that it is today, and it doesn’t have to remain that way. I agree that generally we’re quite happy to accept it when it benefits our team, but that doesn’t mean we are all happy for it to continue across the board. Almost every player does it to some extent, some more than others. The grimacing, groaning and rolling around once a player hits the ground is tiresome. As for slapping the turf repeatedly to show how hurt a player is - that’s ludicrous. If you’re properly hurt, you don’t move about and risk increasing the pain.

Refs should yellow-card the offender and there should also be retrospective punishment for obvious instances not spotted by the ref. That should rein in instances like Ben White’s nasty play-acting.
 

Cheating

But it hasn’t always been there to the extent that it is today, and it doesn’t have to remain that way. I agree that generally we’re quite happy to accept it when it benefits our team, but that doesn’t mean we are all happy for it to continue across the board. Almost every player does it to some extent, some more than others. The grimacing, groaning and rolling around once a player hits the ground is tiresome. As for slapping the turf repeatedly to show how hurt a player is - that’s ludicrous. If you’re properly hurt, you don’t move about and risk increasing the pain.

Refs should yellow-card the offender and there should also be retrospective punishment for obvious instances not spotted by the ref. That should rein in instances like Ben White’s nasty play-acting.
You sure about that? Go watch Italia 90. Watch the national teams of Italy and Argentina.
 

Cheating

I disagree. I think its just changed to match the way the sport has 'evolved' .And as spectators we get to SEE alot more now.
 

Cheating

But it hasn’t always been there to the extent that it is today, and it doesn’t have to remain that way. I agree that generally we’re quite happy to accept it when it benefits our team, but that doesn’t mean we are all happy for it to continue across the board. Almost every player does it to some extent, some more than others. The grimacing, groaning and rolling around once a player hits the ground is tiresome. As for slapping the turf repeatedly to show how hurt a player is - that’s ludicrous. If you’re properly hurt, you don’t move about and risk increasing the pain.

Refs should yellow-card the offender and there should also be retrospective punishment for obvious instances not spotted by the ref. That should rein in instances like Ben White’s nasty play-acting.
Yes to all of that. And the main reason you don't roll around when injured is so as not to exacerbate the injury.
 

Cheating

To take umbrage with cheating in modern football is like being incredulous that snakes bite.
Its always been there. It will always be there. It is what it is.
I dont like it. You can get upset about it, or perhaps revel in the comic ironic tragedy when it benefits your team one week, then confounds them the next. But its just there. Like taxes.
There is no moral high ground on this from anyone's perspective I'd suggest.
The Leeds team of Hunter/Bremner et al - and the club is still hated today. Accept cheating and you condone it.
 

Cheating

The Leeds team of Hunter/Bremner et al - and the club is still hated today. Accept cheating and you condone it.
subtle difference between accepting something and accepting it happens and has always happened.
 

Cheating

As the late, great Terry Venables once astutely observed: "Football doesn't build Character, it reveals it."

And ever since football started, there will always have been some people who have been inclined to cheat - it's a part of human nature.

This will surely have increased with the advent of professionalism a century ago, and is currently increasing rapidly now that there's so much more money involved - the higher the stakes, the greater the temptation.
 

Cheating

subtle difference between accepting something and accepting it happens and has always happened.
I accept that - and have seen it most of my spectating life (I was even known as a CF who would deliberately kick the opposition's centre half and goalie within the first five mins of any game*) - but accepting it happens AND DOING NOTHING TO STOP IT AS YOU SUGGEST BECAUSE IT ALWAYS HAS is morally wrong. It's still cheating.
*and they would automatically kick me - just a question of who got in first.
 

Cheating

I accept that - and have seen it most of my spectating life (I was even known as a CF who would deliberately kick the opposition's centre half and goalie within the first five mins of any game*) - but accepting it happens AND DOING NOTHING TO STOP IT AS YOU SUGGEST BECAUSE IT ALWAYS HAS is morally wrong. It's still cheating.
*and they would automatically kick me - just a question of who got in first.
We called it putting a marker down, hated oppo players who tried to be pleasant, made it harder to leave one on them
 

Cheating

The Leeds team of Hunter/Bremner et al - and the club is still hated today. Accept cheating and you condone it.
Hunter and Bremner cheating? They were just hard, if you were a Leeds fan, or dirty if you weren't. They weren't divers. You had some of the most honest pro's in the game with the likes of Reaney, Cooper, Madeley.
 

Cheating

I disagree. I think its just changed to match the way the sport has 'evolved' .And as spectators we get to SEE alot more now.
I disagree (and football is all about opinions). Cheating is far more prevalent now than it was in the 70s 80s and even 90s. When I watched football as a boy , there was definitely players who would happily kick lumps out of opponents (each team had one or two - at least) but there was very little to no diving and trying to con referees into giving free-kicks, penalties. There also seems to be a lot more cynical time wasting and gamesmanship/sh!thousing (prime example the Wolves keeper being "injured" just long enough to get their centre-half back on the pitch).

I think it is happening more and more and with ever greater tv coverage, we are exposed to it more and more. I would suspect that most supporters would prefer it wasn't part of the game.

The other point in @larrysigny post (that I took anyway) is that cheating is far more prevalent in football than in other sports. I would also agree that is the case.

Anyway @Wouldbee, loud and proud tomorrow :sorted:
 

Cheating

I disagree (and football is all about opinions). Cheating is far more prevalent now than it was in the 70s 80s and even 90s. When I watched football as a boy , there was definitely players who would happily kick lumps out of opponents (each team had one or two - at least) but there was very little to no diving and trying to con referees into giving free-kicks, penalties. There also seems to be a lot more cynical time wasting and gamesmanship/sh!thousing (prime example the Wolves keeper being "injured" just long enough to get their centre-half back on the pitch).

I think it is happening more and more and with ever greater tv coverage, we are exposed to it more and more. I would suspect that most supporters would prefer it wasn't part of the game.

The other point in @larrysigny post (that I took anyway) is that cheating is far more prevalent in football than in other sports. I would also agree that is the case.

Anyway @Wouldbee, loud and proud tomorrow :sorted:
Absolutely. You've only got to watch some of the 'big match revisited' programmes on ITV4 from the 70s and 80s. There is literally NO diving, rolling around, holding their face, time wasting, trying to win a penalty, etc. I never saw much at GP till this century, either. First player I remember diving around for us regularly was Clayton. He fell down a lot for a big man. Won lots of pens too.

Cheating clearly DID exist in World football in the 70s and 80s and you can see plenty from the 60s too.

As we all know, football wasn't invented in England till 1992 and with that, came an army of continental stars who taught us all about how to cheat** on a grand scale. And now all teams are at it. It's the thing I despise about football now the most. Players and managers should be embarrassed by their antics. But they're not, because it gets them points. And money.

** Display gamesmanship, some would say.
 

Cheating

Absolutely. You've only got to watch some of the 'big match revisited' programmes on ITV4 from the 70s and 80s. There is literally NO diving, rolling around, holding their face, time wasting, trying to win a penalty, etc. I never saw much at GP till this century, either. First player I remember diving around for us regularly was Clayton. He fell down a lot for a big man. Won lots of pens too.

Cheating clearly DID exist in World football in the 70s and 80s and you can see plenty from the 60s too.

As we all know, football wasn't invented in England till 1992 and with that, came an army of continental stars who taught us all about how to cheat** on a grand scale. And now all teams are at it. It's the thing I despise about football now the most. Players and managers should be embarrassed by their antics. But they're not, because it gets them points. And money.

** Display gamesmanship, some would say.
Diving to win pens I hate and so difficult to call sometimes but what needs to be stopped with a red card is players feigning injury to get opponents sent off.
I can find no mitigation or circumstances when that is ok, I’d rather see players trading blows and getting an orange card or sin bin as it’s a passionate game.
 

Cheating

Hunter and Bremner cheating? They were just hard, if you were a Leeds fan, or dirty if you weren't. They weren't divers. You had some of the most honest pro's in the game with the likes of Reaney, Cooper, Madeley.
“The first thing you can do for me is throw your medals in the bin because you've never won anything fairly; you've done it by cheating.”

Brian Clough, upon taking over at Elland Road, 1974.
 

Cheating

“The first thing you can do for me is throw your medals in the bin because you've never won anything fairly; you've done it by cheating.”

Brian Clough, upon taking over at Elland Road, 1974.
That worked out well for him ????

In fairness after Leeds and Brighton fiasco he got it right at Forest that is a shame as they didn’t deserve him.
 

Cheating

Diving to win pens I hate and so difficult to call sometimes but what needs to be stopped with a red card is players feigning injury to get opponents sent off.
I can find no mitigation or circumstances when that is ok, I’d rather see players trading blows and getting an orange card or sin bin as it’s a passionate game.
No argument. It astounds me with all the video evidence we have that there isn't a process for a retrospective severe (minimum 3 match ban) punishment for feigning injury. And if it's conclusive someone's dived for a pen (e.g. Havertz) they can have the same.
 

Cheating

Absolutely. You've only got to watch some of the 'big match revisited' programmes on ITV4 from the 70s and 80s. There is literally NO diving... ... trying to win a penalty, etc.
Ever heard of Francis Lee aka "Lee Won Pen"? They used to say that you could tackle him on the half way line and he'd still manage to land in the penalty area!

Though as this Granada TV clip points out, that "having himself mastered the art of diving" [sic], he didn't like it whenever someone else did it to him


View: https://twitter.com/1968Tv/status/1733118382340256153
 

Cheating

No argument. It astounds me with all the video evidence we have that there isn't a process for a retrospective severe (minimum 3 match ban) punishment for feigning injury. And if it's conclusive someone's dived for a pen (e.g. Havertz) they can have the same.
Agree 100% @Hippobee
It would be so easy to do but it won’t happen because the players are the stars of the show and to call them out as ‘cheats’ isn’t a good look.
 

Cheating

I accept that - and have seen it most of my spectating life (I was even known as a CF who would deliberately kick the opposition's centre half and goalie within the first five mins of any game*) - but accepting it happens AND DOING NOTHING TO STOP IT AS YOU SUGGEST BECAUSE IT ALWAYS HAS is morally wrong. It's still cheating.
*and they would automatically kick me - just a question of who got in first.
I don’t think modern football is the place to go if you want to engender high moral standards. I also think it’s dangerous taking moral high ground . All teams cheat in one form or another . I think the thing fans take umbrage with is amateur dramatics and conning the referee but then if you are being morally polaric where do you stand on ‘ taking one for the team?’ The practice of executing a clear foul to
Stop the oppo which technically is cheating is breaking the rules .
 
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