Clubs new statement

[moribee]

I have just read the clubs new statement and though I appreciate that an effort has been made it doesnt answer anymore questions and is cloudy as ever. What gets up my nose is this constant winging about the gates.We have police and stewards who have harrassed young supporters all season,a manager last year who couldnt sort out the striker problem and missed the boat and they want 10000. When we got the championship things were on the up but RN let the profile drop that summer and then fiddled whilst we burned last season.We now have a real team to build on to be a first division club but only talk about transfers.....it is all counter productive when the main reason the gates are down is cos of the clubs incompetence.

 

[mhead bee]

yeah....basically!!!

Looks like PG trying to stop us speculating in order to keep players motivated.
If the "owner" is such a big fan, why doesn't he tell people what the hell it is he is trying to do and watch the team he "supports" play?
All we want is a clear answer not al this fudging around.
I must admit Mori, you hate ron noades because of what he did versus notts county last year and you would never forgive him so all this anti noades stuff is just what you want. RN is to you , what George graham is to spurs fans. You will always dispise him. I am not sure that he wants ill of the club, I just think he got pissed of and wants out. All this, "he is trying to kill us " stuff, is basically you showing your contempt of him for what happened that day. That is your perogative and I don't have problem with that, but your dislike of the man is clouding your opinion and you are overeacting to what is really happening because of you dislike of him.
I personally believe you have been waiting for an opportunity to spit fire at him since that day and now you can start the anti noades league because there are snippets of rumours that he may not be dedicated to ouyr cause anymore...feel free to disagree me!

 

[Peter G]

Mori, whilst for you and a number of others the new Press Release may not answer any more questions, I believe it was released to try and spell out in simpler and straightforward terms what was meant by the Press Release two days ago. It`s only a shame that the first Release was open to misinterpretation, as with The Daily Telegraph who covered it purely by saying "Brentford have announced plans to ground share with Woking in 2002/03..." Such reporting in the Press is misinformation, and a distortion of the truth, and for those Bees fans who do not have access to such as The Web and who choose not to call ClubCall for financial reasons, they will go, or have gone, into panic mode.
Hopefully the media, supporters and indeed anyone else reading today`s Release will see that it is an option, nothing more nothing less. Surely it`s better to have such an option, than no option at all.
Additionally it does mention transfer speculation which, to my mind, has rarely been spoken of officially. For when the Release mentions "transfers" which you suggest is counter productive, I beleve the Release has tried to dispel the speculation which surrounds the players and which I personally believe is counter productive (as in my rant of a few days back!). As the Release says "speculation with regard to our players is exactly what it is...speculation".

 

[TOMOGP]

Agreed Mori to be honest I think it clouds the issue even more because this is implying that no matter what we wont be at GP after next season.
Now assume we get promotion to the first next season the Football league are not going to like us playing at Woking and then what or are they saying that by then the new ground will be secure and the share is for a season it gets worse

 

[mhead bee]

Agree with that point, is there any plans for woking to improve their ground over the next couple of years?

 

[Chrisbee]

It seems to me that the club has decided to sell Griffin Park,when it can,in an effort to finance a new stadium then.Is this true?

Gates are down mainly because of our former manager's incompetence and poor early season form in general.Is this true?

"even given our league position" = we are 10th 9 points off a play off place.We might have been higher but for a spell where we couldn't score in a warm-up,possibly caused by the sale of a 15 goal player-Andy Scott.Is this true?

I understand the groundshare necessity(though I totally disagree).But why as far away as Woking?

I have 2 questions:-

1)Has an application regarding Feltham Arena ever been submitted to Hounslow Council?

2)Does the club have any other options re:- new stadium site/groundshare options?

Please BFC answer the questions.

 

[Bigbee]

I think there are plans to delevop it into a 25 k stadium.Fit for ours and Wimbledons use in 2003.Woking will play at Kingstonians ground

 

[mhead bee]

the 25K bit i wouldn't believe, the sending woking to kingston and bees and wombles to surrey I would believe!!!

 

[Chrisbee]

What is the sense in that?

I have posted a thread regarding Wimbledon returning to Merton yesterday.Read that!

 

[Simon B]

Who is going to send Woking anywhere?
Ron? Don't be daft. Woking FC own the freehold of their ground. The constitution of the club means that the ONLY shareholding available to an individual is ONE share, which can ONLY be sold back to the club, NOT exchanged with a third party.

Doesn't generate much share capital, but a lot of security.

So who exactly is going to send football clubs hither and yon across the south-east? Hmm?

 

[mhead bee]

Calm down chaps, this looks like one of bigbees sarky jokes to me!
Pinch of salt required!!

 

[AB]

If I were PG I'd wonder sometimes why I bother. The new clarification statement emphasises the interpretation that should be put on the original statement (Woking is an OPTION, IF it is NECESSARY in order to provide the Bees with a MODERN LONG TERM home)- we aren't definitely moving, if we can get a new stadium without moving we will stay at GP until the new ground is ready, the intention is that we get a new ground.

The aim is to build a club that can sustain itself in Division 1. Ie the intention is NOT to bankrupt the club and have it drop out of the league (unless it means Rymans Div 1!).

As part of this aim, transfers will be only in order to further the ambition of building the club so that it can be a Div 1 team. This is ambiguous. You could read it as meaning that we'll be bringing in players to reach Div 1, or that it will involve selling to make the club financially viable. Given the timescale for the move and the fact that the plans are medium-long term (a good thing) I reckon it does mean that we'll be selling more than buying at least this season. But if the intention is to build for long term Div 1 status, there is no point in a fire sale meaning that we end up being relegated. It might, however, mean that IF we do go up this season, that the club will not bring in a whole load of new players next season.

Of course there are plenty of conspiracies and bad motives that we can attribute to the changes. We should question what is happening and try to get as much information about what is happening. I just don't think that we should immediately think that everything we are being told is a pack of lies and wait to see (when we have more info) what is happening, then protest if it is bad.

 

[Peter G]

Thank you AB.

 

[Bigbee]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mhead bee:
Calm down chaps, this looks like one of bigbees sarky jokes to me!
Pinch of salt required!! </font>

Maybe I was a bit out then

????

 

[roddy]

I had determined not to make any more posts to this board following the discourteous remarks made by German Bee over my info re Paul Evans.

However I would say to Pg that I have no doubts whatsoever that you have nothing but the best interests of the Bees at heart. Due to this I often think you look at things through Rose Colored glasses as for as the club and management is concerned.

The actions and statements made recently by the club and RN in particular do little to engender a belief that they have the best interests of the club at heart. The recent falling gates is due in no short measure to the attitude of the owner /chairman and his inability or unwillingness to give straight answers both by word and deed.

I repeat what I have said time 7 time again that it is far from evident that RN has done anything other than get us into debt. If this is not the case please show some evidence that he has in fact funded the club. Is he still taking his obscene salary and is he still charging us a exorbitant rent to play in what used to be our own stadium.

Until these questions are addressed supporters will always have doubts about his intentions and veracity.

 

[Ace Face]

Peter G -- Doesn`t it just sum this club up that a pre-prepared press statement can be misunderstoodand can be totally ambiguous.As always there is never anything to re-assure us supporters.

How about this for a Press Release from the Board for the owners of Brentford FC ( ie: for the supporters)

"Brentford FC will only re-locate for a maximum of one year while an agreed Stadium Planning Application Development is being built at the Feltham Arena site.The club will then move to the newly built stadium.

Any one year re-location will be as a last resort and will be after every avenue has been investigated with regards staying at Griffin Park whilst the new stadium is being built.

The current Brentford FC board recognise that a proposed move to Woking FC is the least desirable of all options particularly to the large number of fans who will not travel to Woking FC."

People also need to realise that LBH will not do a deal with RN because like us they do not trust him. Would you as an elected official of LBH trust RN with any tax payers money.

Also I would like to see a proper Business Case for Groundsharing for one year against staying at GP while new ground is built.

 

[Chrisbee]

I accept that we do not have any rights regarding knowing future plans of BFC.

However,the things Bees fans have had to put up with over the years are bound to make us sceptical/cynical about any "official statement".

Let it be known here that the FA is already well aware of the Woking plan and will be monitoring it very closely,as indeed will the Nationwide Football League.

Peter,you know what it was like when you chaired the Supporters Association.Things aren't any better at the moment are they?

Please,BFC,understand the concerns that all fans have about this groundshare proposal!

 

[alikat]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Peter G:
Mori, whilst for you and a number of others the new Press Release may not answer any more questions, I believe it was released to try and spell out in simpler and straightforward terms what was meant by the Press Release two days ago.... ".</font>

I’m sorry, but I feel that it is another poor piece of PR on behalf of BFC to issue an EXPLANATION of a press release. I would also like to make the following personal comments:

1) I would LIKE to believe that the reason behind BFC purchasing the freehold of Griffin Park is to ensure that any money raised from any future sale of the ground can be used be the club. I hope that that is 100% true, but I fear that there is also a large element of RN looking after his own financial interests first rather than those of BFC.

2) Re the ground share option – your comments noted, but it worries me that the club is talking about groundsharing being the FIRST step towards providing the club with a modern, long term home. If, after the end of next season, BFC have made no definite progress to a new ground, then ground sharing would, I believe, be the beginning of the end. Not only would gates go down dramatically, but we would be out in the wilderness, in a both financial as well as a geographical sense. It simply makes no financial sense to leave GP if there is no DEFINITE progress to a new ground. I believe that it would be suicide.

3) Gates at GP this season are down for a number of reasons – e.g. indifferent form early on, the utterly ludicrous sale of an in form striker for peanuts, and generally the poor selection of players coming in from last season and during the close season, which has done nothing to enhance the team.

4) The Target 10,000 campaign fails to impress. It’s one thing to aspire to getting average gates of 10,000, but the club needs to think properly how it is going to achieve this. Surely, first and foremost, you must have a winning team. I’m absolutely delighted that, thanks mainly to Ray Lewington and the team, the latter is performing very well at the moment, but it strikes me that this success is DESPITE, rather than because of, RN. Isn’t it about time RN said what a great job Ray is doing and gave him the manager’s job permanently? He certainly deserves it.

5) “It is hard to maintain our current position while playing in front of around 3,000 home fans at Griffin Park” – firstly I think this is a deliberate underestimation of the normal number of home fans, but, more importantly, how many fans does Mr. Hargreaves believe will turn up at Woking? 6,000, or even 4,000? I fear not.

6) “I can only reiterate that the owner and directors of the club are fans too”. If that is true about the owner, why has he spent so much time in Spain recently? A true fan would want to go to as many matches as possible, surely.

7) “Our aim is to be successful both on and off the pitch.” I appreciate the financial problems of the club, but I fail to see how selling Andy Scott at the time that we did for a pittance, bearing in mind the goals he has scored, makes any contribution to success on or off the pitch. Surely you hold on to the best members of your team, giving you the best chance of sustained success and increased crowds. Alternatively, you get, at the very least, a reasonable price for somebody who was one of the season’s top scorers in the league. What you don’t do is let him go for the disgraceful amount that RN did!

8) “Speculation with regard to players...". This is fair comment, but the speculation has come about, I believe, because, following the transfer of Scott and Quinn, most fans fear that some of our other better players may soon be on their way if RN thinks fit, and obviously this is the last thing that they want to see, espcially if they are sold for much less than their true worth.

It is only human nature to speculate, and speculation has probably been particularly rife because practically every true fan knew about the departure of AS and RQ before the Club’s official announcement. Shouldn’t the Club be wondering why this was the case?

I would say that I have supported the team through thick and thin for nearly 25 years – BFC is in my blood. Quite honestly, though, I do not like what RN has done (or failed to do) this season and I fear for the club’s future. And as for the announcements from the club, well, suffice to say that they do not come across (to me) as the work of somebody at the top of the PR profession.

As always, come on you Bees and here’s to 3 points against Bournemouth.

 

[Edmundo]

It seems to me that how you regard the club's statements depends on what you think of Ron Noades. If you have always thought that he is an asset-stripping destroyer of football clubs, hell-bent on selling Brentford FC down the river in order to make a small addition to his substantial fortune, then you will naturally see the recent statements as supporting evidence. You probably won't be persuaded otherwise, whatever is said.

If, on the other hand, you think Ron Noades wants to leave Brentford FC in a strong position for the long-term, then you will probably feel that these statements show that the club is taking active steps towards that goal. "Ah, but why would he want to do that, isn't he an asset-stripping etc?" I hear some people ask. I'm sorry, but I don't see any evidence to support that idea - and the fact that he isn't everyone's cup of tea doesn't make him wicked.

Either way, you might be critical of the way the club has built up such a large debt, or feel that the club hasn't handled its relations with the Council as effectively as it might have hoped.

What I am trying to say is that while it's perfectly possible to put a positive or negative spin on what these statements really mean, I think people are only doing so on the basis of what they already think of Ron Noades and not on the basis of what he says or does.

By the way, before anyone repeats the accusation - I am not a fan or supporter of Ron Noades. But perhaps I am still reserving judgement.

[This message has been edited by Edmundo (edited 02 March 2001).]

 

[Baz Bee]

As said above I consider it a very sad indictment of the club's PR that they have to issue a further statement to clarify the first statement.

The club are aware of the feelings of supporters on this emotive issue and to put out such a poorly worded, ambiguous and evocative statement only sums up the way matters have been handled for the past year or so.

The other items in the latest statement are there to try and divert attention from the main issue, that is the sale of GP and any move to a ground share.

 

[German Bee]

If we get promoted this year or next then surely Woking is out of the Question.How could we make money on gates playing Birmingscum or Watford, Palace etc at a ground like Wokings.

 

[abee]

Peter Gilham I have just returned to London and read the new statement.I did post earlier in the week that I would if I had time over the week-end translate the first press release into supporter speak but the explanatory statement still raises questions.
First of all we now know that BFC is to buy Griffin Park. Two days ago it was acquire (dictionary definition "to gain possession of"). I suppose that we shall have to wait for the paper work to come out to see what the price is but presumably it will not be at more than book value to avoid GPS paying tax.The implication is that Martin Lange is bowing out for a price. There is no other reason for this deal to make sense to him i.e. he is hardly likely to pump 25% of GPS into a company where he has no shareholding and where he is no longer a director.The board should appreciate that it was of considerable comfort to many of us that Martin held what we believed to be a blocking vote against any move to sell Griffin Park however justified the reasons.
The board should also understand that it was Ron Noades who was talking of cutbacks, and teaching us all what it takes to run BFC.On his Sky interview prior to the Millwall game it was mostly doom and gloom and cutting the wage bill rather than "get down to Griffin Park and look at these exciting kids that we have".
I could shred both statements and I plead guilty to looking at everything in a negative light as I just do not trust this board.I do not believe that they are all fans and if Ron went off to Westchester United tomorrow all of them except Tana and Herting would be gone with him. The reference to falling gates is irrelevant. Following the pricing policy for the current season we all told Gary Hargraves what would be the result.The talk should be of income not attendances. The board sacrificed attendances for income as a deliberate policy.My take is that it is not Gary Hargraves but the "men in suits" who are running the club and deciding what can and what cannot be spent.
Peter, the questions that need answering are :
1)is the estimate of £4million debt accurate
2)does the board agree that the bank can only ever be repaid from the sale of assets i.e.players and/or Griffin Park or directly by a cash injection from Altonwood.(i.e. there is absolutely no prospect of generating sufficient profits to clear the estimated £4million of debt.
3)should the board decide upon an Altonwood cash injection would Altonwood ease supporters fears by surrendering its rights to GP as a secured creditor
4)can the board confirm that following the "purchase" of Griffin Park then the ground will become the prime security for the bank debt and any directors loans.
5)as the board based their acceptance of the staggering debt upon the expectation that BFC would be playing in a new stadium by as early as next season (BIAS newsletter)what was the expected equity/loan structure for the new stadium company (there must have been much thought and discussion given to this at board level as they were hoping that we could move into Feltham within five months (BIAS newsletter)
Peter I know that you cannot answer these questions but I am just trying to detail the suspicions that run through my mind and many of the contributors to this board who feel the same as I.
The questions are simple enough.If the answers are satisfying then I shall fold my tent.

 

[Isleworth Bee]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Edmundo:
It seems to me that how you regard the club's statements depends on what you think of Ron Noades. If you have always thought that he is an asset-stripping destroyer of football clubs, hell-bent on selling Brentford FC down the river in order to make a small addition to his substantial fortune, then you will naturally see the recent statements as supporting evidence. You probably won't be persuaded otherwise, whatever is said.

If, on the other hand, you think Ron Noades wants to leave Brentford FC in a strong position for the long-term, then you will probably feel that these statements show that the club is taking active steps towards that goal. "Ah, but why would he want to do that, isn't he an asset-stripping etc?" I hear some people ask. I'm sorry, but I don't see any evidence to support that idea - and the fact that he isn't everyone's cup of tea doesn't make him wicked.

</font>

In my opinion it is not as black and white as you make out Edmundo. There is a middle ground.

I certainly do not see him as a wicked asset stripper who only wants to make personal gain, however nor do I see him as a benevolent Sugar daddy who wants to keep supporting the club.

What I see is a man who has put money into the club which he now regrets because his preferred avenue for getting it back (big transfer sales)is no longer reliable. He therefore wants out and is prepared to put our traditional home at risk to get his cash back.

That may not make him a nasty so and so but it doesnt help us much.

 

[Bill Benn]

What does this new statement tell us ?Noad£S ,Hargreaves W£BBS old mate Herting are all Brentford fans acting in the best interest of the club .Well thats ok then is it A.B.When shall we start asking the questions before the bulldozers move in to Griffin park or after.I think we should protest at every oportunity home, away outside the E.G.M .we cannot give these people the benifit of the doubt .Noades was telling us this time last year re.Palace saga he "was not going to commit himself to anything ,never knows what he will be doing next week let alone next year ".Read Jim Levacks posting on last wednesday .Now he has had enough of his expensive "HOBBY"Noades thinks he can just piss all over us . PROTEST NOW

 

[shaggy]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Edmundo:
...By the way, before anyone repeats the accusation - I am not a fan or supporter of Ron Noades. But perhaps I am still reserving judgement...</font>

For what its worth I agree that perception is ruling the day. Problem is, Ed, that we wont have the information necessary to confirm judgement until after we have moved out of and sold GP, and by then there is no way back. BricklayersBee's statement is much better than the clubs because it is clear about the future. The club isn't clear about the future becuase not only is there no guarantee of a new stadium but we actually don't seem to be any closer to one than we were when Ron took over! Are we?? I can't see how.

Until we DO have a clear vision of when and how we are going to get a new stadium we shoud not leave GP.

[This message has been edited by shaggy (edited 02 March 2001).]

 

[Edmundo]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Isleworth Bee:
What I see is a man who has put money into the club which he now regrets because his preferred avenue for getting it back (big transfer sales)is no longer reliable. He therefore wants out and is prepared to put our traditional home at risk to get his cash back.

That may not make him a nasty so and so but it doesnt help us much.</font>

As far as I can tell, Ron Noades has not put a single penny piece into Brentford FC. He paid Dave W£bb somewhere in the region of £650,000 (I'm not sure of the precise figure, but no doubt someone can correct me), but since then I think all he has done is borrow money from the bank - Brentford FC pays the interest and Griffin Park is the security.

 

[Leicester Bee]

Sorry, but I think that if the club is trying to set up an alternative for the future, then it should be commended. Woking is an option, should Brentford FC need to use it.
If Feltham does not go through, then there is nothing that Brentford FC has said that suggests that it will sell the ground and become homeless.
If Feltham does go through, then it appears as if Brentford FC is trying its best to ensure we have somewhere for us to play football. IMHO, should another and more appropriate football ground become available, I reckon that Brentford FC would reject Woking's offer, and take up the new offer. At least Brentford FC have covered their arses.

 

[Bigbee]

Spot on Ed.As I posted yesterday if Noades was " funding " the club with his own seperate finances I would like him to show me how hes done it.It hurts me but old No Passport is REALLY funding Fulscum,remortgaging Harrods in the process to achieve success.If we dont get the answers to our questions soon,Im sorry but in my opinion the gloves are off.If hes nothing to hide then tell the truth

 

[Stanley]

Chilling though they are Abee's postings seem a very plausible explanation for what is going on. I can see no way that the debt can be paid off unless it comes out of the ground sale or the transfer system comes back on in a big way, (hardly likely).

Is RN as assett stripper? well ask Wimbledon and Crystal Palace fans what has happened to their grounds?

 

[Edmundo]

Wimbledon's ground was in the hands of Wimbledon FC when Ron Noades sold the club to Sam Hammam. The fact that they do not have a ground to call their own is not Noades' fault.

If Noades had sold Selhurst Park to Mark Goldberg at the same time as he sold him Crystal Palace, then they wouldn't have a club by now as the ground would have been sold to pay the debts.

What worries me is not that Ron will screw us, but that he will be chased away before he has sorted out our future so that we don't end up homeless. Whether or not it's his fault we're in this mess, we need someone to sort it out and who knows what the person who takes over might be like. What was the moral of the cautionary tale? Keep good hold of nurse, for fear of finding something worse. Or something like that anyway.

 

[abee]

Good point Ed but of course some of us are afraid that he will "sort out our future" before he is chased away!!!!!
If Noades is being unfairly maligned then he ought to take great pleasure in seeing us right and proving the doubters hopelessly wrong.

 

[Tommy69]

Can I just ask why is the proposed ground share all the way in Woking? People on this board continually bemoan the competition we face as a football club in West London well HELLO? Surely we can groundshare with one of them for a season OK we may not like the other team but its better than playing at a Conference ground?

 

[PJ]

The point everybody is missing (and i`m amazed at the amount of people STILL prepared to give RN their blessing for playing games with BFC`s existence) is the question re how "even the possibility" (is that PC enough for the Noades fans on here?) of a groundshare @Woking is more viable than staying @GP til the new ground is built? (if it ever is!)

The burning question is :

How can moving out of GP (even in an interim period) be cheaper than playing at a non-league ground with less than half our present capacity / non-existent corporate income (which is a lot less than even the "trivial corporate income" GP generates) be of benefit to BFC? There is no satisfactory answer IMHO. Hence why most of us are very , very angry at even a hint of moving out of GP b4 something CONCRETE/CAST-IRON is in place.
Nothing less is acceptable. Full stop....

Maybe somebody can explain to me.....

How could playing @Woking in front of 2000 be a better option than even taking out a bridging loan in between moving stadia, than staying @GP with our regular 5k gates?

It`s b***ocks, no amount of papering over the cracks will do it . GP should be collateral against a new stadium.
Even if we had an agreement to go to Feltham (which i personally will believe when i see it) was made, there is no reason to vacate GP. There`s even the option of selling GP (when the new stadium is fully approved), selling it to Wimpy/Barratts/Bovis (whoever) and leasing it back til the new place is ready to occupy.....still surely a better option than moving out and gambling with our future.

The club can make as many statements as they like .....bottom line is that the vast majority of us do not trust this current regime in charge of our club.

 

[yateleybee]

.

5) “It is hard to maintain our current position while playing in front of around 3,000 home fans at Griffin Park” – firstly I think this is a deliberate underestimation of the normal number of home fans, but, more importantly, how many fans does Mr. Hargreaves believe will turn up at Woking? 6,000, or even 4,000? I fear not.


[/B][/QUOTE]
wake up and smell the coffee mate
i have follwed the bees for the same time as you
attendances have fallen to an all time low
pre the andy scott sale, we had 5500 against millwall.... what a disgrace
we had 4800 against bristol city with 2000 away fans....what a disgrace
we gave away loads of tickets against reading, had 2500 away fans, and had 7500.....what a disgrace
fans MUST reciprocate the original genorosity shown by RN, otherwise, as he is not a fan, he was bound to lose interest.
I LOVE BRENTFORD
come on bees fans, support your team in numbers and with vocal passion.

 

[PJ]

Yateley - er, waking up/coffee, etc...

RN`s generosity?????
Do you call it generous running up an overdraft on BFC`s behalf approaching £4m??

In real terms, all RN has laid out on BFC is the £850k he paid to FEB. The rest of it is all on "an overdraft" which he wont be liable for, BFC will!

Why do you think peeps are so worried re the link between GP/overdraft??

Put it into real terms, Yateley, and RN has spunked around £6mill (incl Hermann dough) in @30 months. It`s called mismanagement (putting it politely).
Putting it unpolitely, oh sod it.... See you @Bournemouth

 

[Russell]

I read PG's missive today and would like to know who are these Bees fans on the board? Ron Noades? Don't make me laugh anymore - my sides ache too much.

As for funding the Club, did or did Noades not say he would "fund Brentford for 2 years"? My Oxford English Dictionary says fund means "permanently available capital". Where is this then? Where's the money Ron? Ah yes, stupid boy, it's Griffin Park and the available equity is frittered away by approximately £30k a week. So by my reckoning, this will all be gone by the end of next season (easily). I have never known anyone squander with such reckless abandon the assets of any company, let alone our football club.

As for not chasing Noades off, he's over 21 and a big boy. I reckon he knows exactly what he's up to and the split in opinion of Bees fans (cynics like me versus the Noades apologists amd sympathisers) will only allow him more time to complete his plans, the end of which will in my opinion see BFC well and truly up sh*t creek in a barbed wire canoe without a paddle.

Hitler promised the world he wasn't going to invade Poland yet he did. I am not of course wishing to draw any comparison of Hitler and anyone at Brentford but if anyone says they have a piece of paper handed to them by.... Didn't that effectively happen at The Mad Hatter's Tea Party?

 

[Edmundo]

What's all this b***ocks about the "Mad Hatter's Tea Party"? If anyone wants to try and say that to my face, I'll give them a piece of my mind.

Ron Noades invited representatives of all the fanzines and BIAS to a meeting at which he told us his view of the position and events at Brentford. So why is this a "Mad Hatter's Tea Party"? What should the fanzine editors and BIAS have done? Say, "Sorry Ron, we're not coming, we're not interested in hearing what you have to say."? And where exactly would that have got us?

But somehow, because we went to find out what he had to say for himself, somehow we're complicit with him. Or at least some of us are - others are excused for some reason.

Well it's a load of b***ocks. One minute people bemoan the lack of communication from Noades, the next they are taking a pop at their fellow fans who try to do something about it.

Perhaps we should have come back and said, "Well he told us this and that, but it's all a pack of lies, well, it must be, mustn't it, because he's Ron Noades." Maybe that would have made you happy?

 

[Mr Tree]

being a simpleton, i don't enter into these complicated debates, but i try and read and understand.... my q is this.... from what i can see, we have not got the money to afford another site, therefore we are selling GP to fund a new place.... someone explain to me what is wrong with this, in itself, please? am not defending Noades, just want this point clarifying, if ya could

 

[California Bee]

I would like to be able to understand from Brentford FC
(i) What candidate sites there are for a new ground for Brentford?
(ii) Where exactly does Brentford FC stand in the process of moving to selection, closure and finalization relative to any such sites?
(iii)If there should be no candidate sites, how and in what timeframe does Brentford FC expect to find one?

 

[abee]

Edmundo,forget the Mad Hatters Tea Party. It was an expression that I first used in one of my posts and was not intended to be personal. I just thought at the time that some of the standard "Alice" quotes were starting to be appropriate to the Noades situation i.e. "I'll be judge and I'll be jury. I'll try the whole cause and sentence you to death"
"Curiouser and curiouser" and
"I say what I mean and mean what I say-that's the same thing, you know".
The expression from my part was intended to be ironic but you have read it personally and I apologise.
The big problem I guess with the meeting is that with the exception of Noades you were all "playing away".He set the turf and it is very difficult if not impossible to be objective to the point of upsetting your host when you are in his living room enjoying his coffee and biscuits or whatever
This is a comment not a criticism and one written in sympathy.I think that few of us are happy with the current situation including Noades and we all have our own thoughts on what should be done.Your concern reasonably enough is that if Noades walked away because of the abuse then who is going to step in.My view is that we are dealing with a very brittle ego here and he can be shamed into at least a little more humility by drawing attention to the remarkably casual management of the clubs finances by himself and his board.
I shall however try to be more careful with my posts as we are all in this together.
Dan the Bee has of course a good point and my future thrusts will as long as I can contain my temper be concentrated on questions for the BFC board.
So referring to my post of last night as the board were hoping(expecting)to move into Feltham in time for next season(BIAS newsletter and I admit that this shook me)then they must have had considerable dicussions on the equity/loan structure.After all it was hoped to happen by say this July.
So what was the budget for the stadium, how would it be financed and who would hold the equity. Since Brentfords equity could only come from Griffin Park(it will now be possible following the sale of GP by GPS to BFC)what was the net income from the sale of Griffin Park expected to be available for BFC's share of the equity. I think that this is a reasonable enough question for any shareholder to ask of his board for a proposed major investment and I know that BIAS holds shares in both companies.Why should BFC consider the financing structure to be secret.

 

[Luton Bee]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by abee:
Edmundo,forget the Mad Hatters Tea Party. It was an expression that I first used in one of my posts and was not intended to be personal</font>

I suspect that the main problem with the phrase, abee was that others have "picked it up and run with it", on this and other boards. The manor in witch the news of the meeting came out was also unfortunate and has, in hindsight, done BIAS few favours. However this really is a case of dont shoot the messenger and I am absolutely confident that the efforts of all the board members of BIAS are in keeping with the best interests of Brentford FC and it's fans and I would urge everyone to get behind the efforts of BIAS and also the supporters trust. If for no other reason than to present a united front in the face of worrying times ahead.

 

[Baz Bee]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dan the Bee:
being a simpleton, i don't enter into these complicated debates, but i try and read and understand.... my q is this.... from what i can see, we have not got the money to afford another site, therefore we are selling GP to fund a new place.... someone explain to me what is wrong with this, in itself, please? am not defending Noades, just want this point clarifying, if ya could

</font>

Nothing at al is wrong with this.

The problem of course is how much of the GP sale may be available? It is likely GP will only fund the irresponsible overdraft that is still being run up. Additionally, at the present time no new ground (or land/site)is avaialable. Why, therefore, do we need to move before a new site is identified (Feltham?) and formal contracts or other arrangements entered in to so as to secure our own long term destiny?

I believe that the majority of us on the board concur that we need to move from GP. What we do not seem to be so unanimous upon is how and when this should occur!

 

[Chrisbee]

You can fool some of the people some of the time.........etc etc.
Seems like many Bees fans on this board have been duped by Ron's superior pr

Personally,like Mark Lawrenson depicted by a certain impressionist,I don't care any more.I think I'll just sit back and watch Brentford Football Club die

In truth,what we think doesn't matter to a man who gives not one iota about the genuine football supporter,especially those at Brentford.

I don't think I can be bothered with it all.

ISN'T IT SAD??!!

 

['Ayes B]

The clubs finances are a major cause of concern. I dested W£bb and did see Ron as our saviour.

the sale of Griffin Park will only balance the books. All of this talk of a new stadium is OK, but the club can not affoard it.

Ron got 26mil from palace and probably could but as we or I am learning is current funding of our club has not come from his pocket.

I am still a support of Ron although I must admit that voices in my head are starting to tell me that I might be a bit niave.

My brian is putting two and two together and getting five, the five being that:

• 
  [1.] Brentford FC purchase GP from Griffin Park Stadium Limited,
  [2.] Brentford FC secure a deal with Hounslow Council for the Feltham Areana site
  [3.] Brentford FC can not afford to leave or stay at Griffin Park
  [4.] Altonwood buy the Feltham Arean site from Brentford FC and build a 25k stadium complex at Feltham Areans, giving Brentford FC a 100 year lease
  [5.] Brentford FC sell Griffin Park and the money raised clears the clubs depts
  [6.] Brentford FC move into the new stadium at Feltham and were all happy that were tennents in Feltahm and are not going to Woking.

Hopefully I'm wrong but from reading between the lines of what people are saying on here I can not comprehend how the club:

• 
  [a] can affoard to build the new stadium,
  have not put in a planning application
  [c] have a busiess plan (e.g. a roof ala WIM so that it rivalled Wembley).

 

[Mr Tree]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Baz Bee:

Nothing at al is wrong with this.

The problem of course is how much of the GP sale may be available? It is likely GP will only fund the irresponsible overdraft that is still being run up. Additionally, at the present time no new ground (or land/site)is avaialable. Why, therefore, do we need to move before a new site is identified (Feltham?) and formal contracts or other arrangements entered in to so as to secure our own long term destiny?

I believe that the majority of us on the board concur that we need to move from GP. What we do not seem to be so unanimous upon is how and when this should occur!</font>

thanks baz

i think i'm gonna go cry

 

[Russell]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 'Ayes B:
[4.] Altonwood buy the Feltham Arean site from Brentford FC and build a 25k stadium complex at Feltham Areans, giving Brentford FC a 100 year lease</font>

How did Brentford buy the site to sell it? I don't think so some how.

 

[Mr Tree]

i'd say this recent thread contains info on debt, groundshare and BIAS's meeting with Ron

however, i can't be arsed with all this anymore, see you guys soon

 

[JonnieGee]

I caught a snippet of a programme on 5Live where Jeffery Richmond(?) chairman of Bradford City was talking about a meeting he and Jim Jefferies (manager) had with fans about the current problems at the club. He said something like this:

"Passions were running high but we spoke to the fans in an open meeting about the current situation. We explained about why we were moving out the older players on high salaries. What our plans for restructuring the club were and how we were facing up to relegation. During the whole meeting there was not one piece of good news, yet at the end of it Jim and I received a standing ovation. I think that was because we were honest about the situation. There is no point not telling the truth to football supporters. It will lead to; bad feeling speculation and ultimately destroy the positive things which are being attempted to remedy the situation. In any event the supporters will eventually find out the truth anyway".

Ron Noades & Co please note.

 

[Banana]

I'd like to briefly expand the how-is-the-new-stadium-to-be-paid-for bit...

GP will probably be sold to pay off debt and presumably whittle away on running costs in the future

BFC will move into Feltham (or whereever) as the tenants of a leisure company which probably wants to expand on its stadia portfolio. No needs for funds there then!

easy

 

[California Bee]

Hitler promised the world he wasn't going to invade Poland yet he did. I am not of course wishing to draw any comparison of Hitler and anyone at Brentford but if anyone says they have a piece of paper handed to them by.... Didn't that effectively happen at The Mad Hatter's Tea Party?[/B][/QUOTE]

In the book "100 years of Brentford" there is a photograph of Brentford's team in Germany. Before a match over there in the 1930s the squad is lined up in Brentford kit giving the "Heil Hitler" salute. Maybe the chickens have come home to roost?