Consolidation

NorthamptonBee

NorthamptonBee

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Consolidation

Does it mean buy crap old players and give them 2 year contracts and hope that the young loanees pull us out of it. If so I'd like to say that it is going well as we struggle to compete this season and then it all turns around in the next one.:confused:
I'm lost as I can't see anything offering us anything resembling a rosy future.
Daish was the man and we all know it.
 
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Consolidation

Les Beeavinu said:
Why was Daish the man. :confused:
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He lost 40 goals and his captain but still has his side near the top of their league on a very tight budget. Maybe he knew some players from the level we are at who would have helped whereas our man's info came from other people.:confused:
 

Consolidation

NorthamptonBee said:
He lost 40 goals and his captain but still has his side near the top of their league on a very tight budget. Maybe he knew some players from the level we are at who would have helped whereas our man's info came from other people.:confused:
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I see what you mean, and have to agree. Does raise questions about the current pair in charge as well - who's responsible for what? Who makes decisions/recommendations on players to be signed, and what position has priority? Would like to know the answers to those questions...
 

Consolidation

Not too sure about Daish but what worries me is that I do not see this squad getting much better.

It's not as if we have a lot of youngsters gaining expereince. Ide has regressed, Osbourne and Charles are not trusted and we are kindly giving our young loanees league practice so that Ipswich , Sheffield United and Plymouth can benefit in the long run.

The core (or soft underbelly) of our squad is comprised of a load of journeymen nonentities, none of whom are likely to improve much or play above their current sphere of operation.

They are also mostly sitting there in the comfort zone of 2 year contracts (which surely would not have been gifted them but any/many other clubs).

This squad will go nowhere and as far as consolidation is concerned - forget it.

Eventually someone will have to rip it apart and start again.
 

Consolidation

NorthamptonBee said:
Daish was the man and we all know it.
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With what's gone on at Ebbsfleet this week, I'm sure he'd jump at the chance to manage a league club as well. Shame we can't afford to put right a poor managerial appointment for the third time in succession.
 

Consolidation

North London Bee said:
Not too sure about Daish but what worries me is that I do not see this squad getting much better.

It's not as if we have a lot of youngsters gaining expereince. Ide has regressed, Osbourne and Charles are not trusted and we are kindly giving our young loanees league practice so that Ipswich , Sheffield United and Plymouth can benefit in the long run.

The core (or soft underbelly) of our squad is comprised of a load of journeymen nonentities, none of whom are likely to improve much or play above their current sphere of operation.

They are also mostly sitting there in the comfort zone of 2 year contracts (which surely would not have been gifted them but any/many other clubs).

This squad will go nowhere and as far as consolidation is concerned - forget it.

Eventually someone will have to rip it apart and start again.
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Unfortunately, I agree with you 100%.
 

Consolidation

I know a lot on here had high hopes or even expectations of us going straight back up this season, but after last year's debacles and our dire financial situation this season has to be about steadying the ship and making sure that we don't succumb to a second successive relegation. Lincoln, Luton and Bradford showed that we can do it. Macclesfield and Darlington show that we are far from consistent. Maybe it's not pretty and not what we want and not even what we were led to expect after all the talk about promotion budgets and the like but mid table consolidation is probably what this season will be about. Enjoy the ups and tolerate the downs, hopefully over the season there'll be more of the former.
 

Consolidation

Butcher has brought some decent players to the club - I think that the midfielders and full back are good enough players. However, we have two holes that you can drive several London buses through - a lack of a decent partner for Heywood and a forward to work off Thorpe's bits and pieces. For that, you can blame the manager, the assistant, the budget, whatever but it remains a fact and until its solved any manager who comes to Brentford will find a team that doesn't have enough to achieve what our "promotion budget" was set up to do. Unless someone's going to allow Butcher to change it (which they won't because of budget), we're stuck with it.
 

Consolidation

We aren't a a complete loss to be fair. If we get the system right.

Brown

Starosta
Heywood
Charles/Osbourne
O Connor

Pead
Poole
Moore
Dickson

Thorpe
Connell

in a 4-4-2 looks the best bet at the moment with Shakes, Ide, Osbourne/Charles and Montague on the bench with Masters as GK.

With the players we have at the moment and given that we're struggling to score goals arguably the striker who can play the best football is Connell so we need to start playing him again and having them both up front, at home particularly.

I don't mind the 4-5-1 today as it worked at Luton and from what Ive heard is the best we'd played so sticking with it to see how it went today was fair enough and at least he did change it. But we've seen it won't always work now and we don't really have the strength in midfield to play that way. Mousinho when fit will add a bit but who s to say when he'll be fit.

Mackie looked like he might do a decent enough job at first but he's got progressively worse each time Ive seen him and today he was just shocking.
 

Consolidation

MetalBee said:
We aren't a a complete loss to be fair. If we get the system right.

Brown

Starosta
Heywood
Charles/Osbourne
O Connor

Pead
Poole
Moore
Dickson

Thorpe
Connell

in a 4-4-2 looks the best bet at the moment with Shakes, Ide, Osbourne/Charles and Montague on the bench with Masters as GK.

With the players we have at the moment and given that we're struggling to score goals arguably the striker who can play the best football is Connell so we need to start playing him again and having them both up front, at home particularly.

I don't mind the 4-5-1 today as it worked at Luton and from what Ive heard is the best we'd played so sticking with it to see how it went today was fair enough and at least he did change it. But we've seen it won't always work now and we don't really have the strength in midfield to play that way. Mousinho when fit will add a bit but who s to say when he'll be fit.

Mackie looked like he might do a decent enough job at first but he's got progressively worse each time Ive seen him and today he was just shocking.
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Wouldn't disagree with most of your post.

No team with any aspiration of winning games at home should contemplate 1 up front unless

a) It's the only option due to injuries/suspension
b) The opposition is a lot better than ever will face in this division
c) The one up front is lightning quick and capable of 30+ goals a season

John Mousinho IMHO has an important part to play in the team this season. When fit, he has the bite and physical presence in midfiled that we need to compliment the lightweight clones.

He also I believe could do a job alongside Heywood, we know he's not slow, and he has more idea of winning tackles fairly than Mackie.

I doubt if TB will drop Mackie but we would be stronger without him. He certainly doesn't lead by example, and has no obvious redeeming qualities.

Brown

Starosta
Mousinho
Heywood
O'Connor (new left back required)

Pead
Moore (Mousinho to replace as and when loan expires)
Poole
Dickson

Connell (Priority is new strike partner with pace for Thorpe)
Thorpe

Subs

Ide (Who should start every week if he realsise his potential)
Osbourne
Montague
Smith
Masters
 

Consolidation

This 'team tactics' thing is the heart of the problem but the problem is that we don't have the players. Yesterday, there seems to be criticism for not combatting Darlo's midfield and, equally, not playing 4-4-2. We could not play 12 players!

So, for the midfield challenge, TB chose the appropriate formation: 4-5-1/4-3-3. The big problem was that both wide players were neither good enough midfielders for the '5' and even worse at the '3'. We also do not have anyone who can play the 'midfield general' role.

As for the 4-4-2, there is no-one who can play the second forward: Ide has no awareness and cannot gamble; Shakes is... pathetic; Connell seems better playing behind the strikers (just like Moore/Moose). So, as has been said endlessly, we need another striker - let's hope a loanee turns up.

That's not to say that taking Heywood off made any sense at all; Mackie had just got booked and was made to look a donkey all game. But... the tactical change to 3-5-2 made a lot of sense when you're chasing the game, it's just that the wrong player was left in the middle of defence.
 

Consolidation

Consolidation is what you aspire to after promotion, not relagtion FFS.

We should be aiming to bounce back at the first opportunity or risk finding a new "level" or even worse, dropping down another tier.

Or should that be tear.....
 

Consolidation

We were weak, small and basically bullied by a half decent side. It was men against boys and that is not going to change, we play one forward in most games and he can't hit a barn door as his comical double chance showed. We have a thug as captain who gives away too many penalties, is too busy trying to fight Wright rather than watch the ball as he scores a sitcom goal. The team tries but the Butch/Scott revolution has left with some right average and very small players on 2/3 year contracts. The tactics are baffling and to have a crowd singing " You don't know what you're doing" at this early stage is frightening and tells it's own story. Yesterday will have lost us some fans and you need to thank youer lucky stars that you weren't at Macclesfield or Hereford as you wouldn't have been there yesterday.
Sad but true.
 

Consolidation

North London Bee said:
The core (or soft underbelly) of our squad is comprised of a load of journeymen nonentities, none of whom are likely to improve much or play above their current sphere of operation.

They are also mostly sitting there in the comfort zone of 2 year contracts (which surely would not have been gifted them but any/many other clubs).
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:imwith:

No one wanted Connell for more than one year and we were the only club to offer him a two year contract and the same can probably be said of Mackie and Thorpe. Also, it is slightly disconcerting that nearly all of the new signings stated that their main reason for joining was that Terry Butcher was in charge! :eek: Very worrying indeed.
 

Consolidation

jlove said:
This 'team tactics' thing is the heart of the problem but the problem is that we don't have the players. Yesterday, there seems to be criticism for not combatting Darlo's midfield and, equally, not playing 4-4-2. We could not play 12 players!

So, for the midfield challenge, TB chose the appropriate formation: 4-5-1/4-3-3. The big problem was that both wide players were neither good enough midfielders for the '5' and even worse at the '3'. We also do not have anyone who can play the 'midfield general' role.

As for the 4-4-2, there is no-one who can play the second forward: Ide has no awareness and cannot gamble; Shakes is... pathetic; Connell seems better playing behind the strikers (just like Moore/Moose). So, as has been said endlessly, we need another striker - let's hope a loanee turns up.

That's not to say that taking Heywood off made any sense at all; Mackie had just got booked and was made to look a donkey all game. But... the tactical change to 3-5-2 made a lot of sense when you're chasing the game, it's just that the wrong player was left in the middle of defence.
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Mackie is a donkey, said that he was going to be a liability on the first day of the season.

But to change to a 3-5-2 makes sense, how?? Admitted we had an extra "striker" up front but we still had 5 in the midfield, if he was chasing the game surely a 3-4-3 or 4-2-4 would have made more sense??
 

Consolidation

love and mercy said:
its no good Butcher saying the players need time to gel together as most of them will be gone by January
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They have had plenty of bloody time to gel together, we are in November and we have had the majority of the squad together since August, does he want the whole season to get the players to gel??
 

Consolidation

If Mackie had been playing superbly, the substitution might(??) have made sense - but as (1) he wasn't and (2) Mackie was potentially one foul away from a red card, it made no sense at all. As soon as the yellow came out for Mackie, TB should have changed his decision and left Heywood on.

And all that is in addition to the fact that imo Heywood was our best player in any case!!!!
 

Consolidation

IverBee said:
Consolidation is what you aspire to after promotion, not relegation FFS.

We should be aiming to bounce back at the first opportunity or risk finding a new "level" or even worse, dropping down another tier.

Or should that be tear.....
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Couldn't agree more! All season long I have been in despair at those who believe we should see this season as one of consolidation. How long do people want to consolidate 1,2, 3 or more years.
 

Consolidation

golferbee said:
Mackie is a donkey, said that he was going to be a liability on the first day of the season.

But to change to a 3-5-2 makes sense, how?? Admitted we had an extra "striker" up front but we still had 5 in the midfield, if he was chasing the game surely a 3-4-3 or 4-2-4 would have made more sense??
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Because 2 of a midfield 5 should always be prepared to get forward to support the front 2, making 4 - that's how it should be played in football; it's basic coaching. If the ball's on the left, then your right wide man should be in on the edge of the box and the foward midfielder (Connell or Moore) should be coming in centrally to support the front 2. To play with 4 "up front" would mean they get no service.

The "formation" we ended up with seemed to be Thorpe & Ide up the middle, Starosta wide right, Dickson wide left, with Connell forward of Moore behind them. You could argue that it was a 3-4-3, with Connell also up front but, to me, he plays best behind the striker/s. Having all your outfield players in the opposition penalty box is not a tactic at all.
 

Consolidation

jlove said:
Having all your outfield players in the opposition penalty box is not a tactic at all.
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Anyone else notice how we brought all 10 outfield players behind the ball for two Darlo free kicks 30+ yards out in the first half yesterday?
 

Consolidation

Luton Bee said:
Anyone else notice how we brought all 10 outfield players behind the ball for two Darlo free kicks 30+ yards out in the first half yesterday?
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What's happening to our club is a tradegy, Butcher and Scott have no idea.
Dyke should stand up and take responsibility for putting Brentford FC in the worst situation for decades, if not ever.
All the poor signings and lack of tactics have been said and still some come on here and defend the clown.

Just read Butcher's post match press conference and it that doesn't convince you he's a man who's lost the plot BIG TIME you need to wake up and smell the coffee. The damage he's doing to our club is monumental, many fans have had enough, the crowds are falling and we're drifting towards the conference, he and Scott should go now and we should give the job to the youth team coach, he couldn't do any worse....
 

Consolidation

shouldbee said:
What's happening to our club is a tradegy, Butcher and Scott have no idea.
Dyke should stand up and take responsibility for putting Brentford FC in the worst situation for decades, if not ever.
All the poor signings and lack of tactics have been said and still some come on here and defend the clown.

Just read Butcher's post match press conference and it that doesn't convince you he's a man who's lost the plot BIG TIME you need to wake up and smell the coffee. The damage he's doing to our club is monumental, many fans have had enough, the crowds are falling and we're drifting towards the conference, he and Scott should go now and we should give the job to the youth team coach, he couldn't do any worse....
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Well said. All this it's not 4-5-1 it's 4-1-4-1 with a bit of 3-5-2 thrown in when the 4-4-1-1 needs defending!!:confused: The guy sounds as pathetic as he does on the radio giving his punditry skills to the nation.
People suggest that you shouldn't be negative on here but this is the place, the team get my backing across the country but if they are sh*t I will type it on here and try and be positive at the games.
Some people still pretend that we are moving in the right direction and we are clearly not, those players try their best but are lightweight and can't really perform as a team very regulary. This team is here to stay for 2 seasons apart from Heywood who no doubt will leave and do you trust these two to pick a replacement? I certainly don't.
 

Consolidation

shouldbee said:
... he and Scott should go now and we should give the job to the youth team coach, he couldn't do any worse....
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... and then when he hasn't done any better by mid-February, we can get rid of him and find someone else to do no better until the end of the season, to be replaced by a new manager for the start of next season (until mid-November), followed by ... (continues ad infinitum).
 

Consolidation

Edmundo said:
... and then when he hasn't done any better by mid-February, we can get rid of him and find someone else to do no better until the end of the season, to be replaced by a new manager for the start of next season (until mid-November), followed by ... (continues ad infinitum).
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Or we wait for a Wally to virtually take us down but strike lucky with a manager who produces championship winning form to keep us up with his 10 game great escape.:sorted:
 
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