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Ubee

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Corners

Why are we so effing sh1te at defending corners? Answers on a postcard to TW8 0RU
 

Corners

We need to improve on our defense from set pieces. Its an achilles heel of late.
 

Corners

Ubee said:
Why are we so effing sh1te at defending corners? Answers on a postcard to TW8 0RU
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Why are we so effing sh1te at taking corners?
 

Corners

We spend too much time trying to block the opposition . Against wolves Sorensen never looked at the ball coming in once he just watched the man and had no idea where the ball was. Ajer did the same at Liverpool. Obviously been told to do this but I’d rather they attacked the ball to clear it.
 

Corners

Probably the biggest reason is the turnover of personnel in goal and across the back line. Too many injuries but we have a chance to get a settled back line now.
 

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We seem to leave our big defenders in the 6 yard box regardless ,and leave our smaller players marking there centre backs who are attacking the ball from the penalty spot makes no sense.
 

Corners

For some reason we’ve clearly decided to use zonal marking. We leave ourselves with half our big players marking nobody at the near post and then leave Rico marking a centre back nearly every time. It’s absolutely shocking, and the fact it’s taken 2/3 months of it for Frank to finally acknowledge something needs to change is alarming, we’re pretty much starting every game 1/2-0 down because of it.
 

Corners

Our big men don’t seem to be able to get off the ground
 

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Great still frame. Just look at the non marking never mind loose marking, MBS , Pontus and AN other facing their own goal. At least no sign of height mismatches.

I have never thought the players knew what they were doing with the zonal marking thing, or they never have looked like they knew what they were doing.

Needs a lot of sorting.
 

Corners

The club have often said they place a lot of emphasis on set pieces - I am finding it hard to believe.

Our attacking set pieces are awful and don't look threatening, and we look really fragile when defending corners.
 

Corners

We have to guys who could put some ideas forward and help. Mcfarlane B Squad , Presley Individual Improvement Coach ( think thats his role)Maybe a 3rd the Tactics Coach

Said yesterday to one off my sons as we watched the game, first corner here’s Everton’s first goal.

Not sure if David Raya could of held the shot instead of pushing over the bar . Most keepers today seem to push a lot of shots away with both hands instead of catching the ball
 
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Corners

We are nowhere near aggressive enough in attacking the ball. Flat footed, struggling to get off the ground, on the back foot etc.

We have 3 massive CBs, Toney who is excellent in the air, Noorgard is 6 ft plus. Must be down to organisation and attitude.
 

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JasonBee said:
We could also go back to leaving 2 men up field pushing 3 oppo defenders back leaving a bit more space in box for keeper to claim / punch. It’s so crowded with everyone in our box.
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100% agree with this. Leave the 2 smallest players up the pitch. Having nobody left up there feels very negative, even if we manage to clear it, it’s always coming straight back.
 

Corners

Could we not put our wingbacks on the posts defending a corner, reckon about half we conceded would have been cleared. Centre halves man mark in the middle. If the argument against this is trying to play the opposition offside in the 2nd phase I think we are defending them far too badly at the moment to be worried about that.
 

Corners

got to start putting two players up field ( push out towards the wings ) this means teams would have to leave two/ three defenders back, then go man to man marking for the corner, enough of this zonal b0llocks
 

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YouReds123 said:
100% agree with this. Leave the 2 smallest players up the pitch. Having nobody left up there feels very negative, even if we manage to clear it, it’s always coming straight back.
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But, if we leave our two smallest players up the pitch for corners, the opposition will leave their two smallest players back, so the threat from headers is still going to be the same. When Mbeumo is playing, he does position outside the penalty area, so can make a run if the ball is cleared; he's about the only quick runner who can hold the ball up.

In the small and random sample of our goals conceded from corners in my head, most seem to be at the back post so it may be just that the players within the zones needs to be shifted about so that (for example) Rico is not left trying to mark a 6'6" centre back making a late run in.
 

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mattbee said:
Could we not put our wingbacks on the posts defending a corner, reckon about half we conceded would have been cleared. Centre halves man mark in the middle. If the argument against this is trying to play the opposition offside in the 2nd phase I think we are defending them far too badly at the moment to be worried about that.
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Leaves 2 men unmarked.
 

Corners

I think we've just been rumbled a bit, opposition scouting teams are very deep at this level and will pick up on weaknesses to exploit in a way that we probably weren't used to in The Championship. We just need to really focus on that (and keeping switched on defensively) and come up with ways to defend corners against the way that teams are now attacking them.

I don't think it's huge coincidence that these goals are all happening at around the same time. Each time one happens our next opposition sees it as an effective way to target us. Even if we believe in our defensive plan here, I think we need to vary it now to counter these points.
 

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jlove said:
But, if we leave our two smallest players up the pitch for corners, the opposition will leave their two smallest players back, so the threat from headers is still going to be the same. When Mbeumo is playing, he does position outside the penalty area, so can make a run if the ball is cleared; he's about the only quick runner who can hold the ball up.

In the small and random sample of our goals conceded from corners in my head, most seem to be at the back post so it may be just that the players within the zones needs to be shifted about so that (for example) Rico is not left trying to mark a 6'6" centre back making a late run in.
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Would mean a few things; less players in our box making it potentially easier for the keeper to come and claim, would create opportunity for a counter attack if we leave players up there instead of clearing it then having to face another cross/attack instantly. And also, Rico is usually the smallest, fastest player in the box (on the pitch)

For example, if we leave Mbeumo and Rico on the half way line and the opposition leave it 2v2, we're winning any foot race against any team to the ball if it's cleared up the pitch, whether we manage to do anything with it is completely different. If they have it 2v3, then it's already a win for us. How many times have we seen Rico win a header defending a corner? We could still leave 9 players in and around the box to defend which I feel is more than enough.

Also, agree regarding the players shifting around the zone if that's how we keep it. Rico marking Mina had very much a Forshaw marking Dan Burn feel about it. But I feel man to man works best, as in a zone the attacking players have a running jump to the ball instead of a stationary jump.
 

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YouReds123 said:
Would mean a few things; less players in our box making it potentially easier for the keeper to come and claim, would create opportunity for a counter attack if we leave players up there instead of clearing it then having to face another cross/attack instantly. And also, Rico is usually the smallest, fastest player in the box (on the pitch)

For example, if we leave Mbeumo and Rico on the half way line and the opposition leave it 2v2, we're winning any foot race against any team to the ball if it's cleared up the pitch, whether we manage to do anything with it is completely different. If they have it 2v3, then it's already a win for us. How many times have we seen Rico win a header defending a corner? We could still leave 9 players in and around the box to defend which I feel is more than enough.

Also, agree regarding the players shifting around the zone if that's how we keep it. Rico marking Mina had very much a Forshaw marking Dan Burn feel about it. But I feel man to man works best, as in a zone the attacking players have a running jump to the ball instead of a stationary jump.
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I sort-of agree but, regardless of the numbers in the box and the breakout potential, the rest also have got to defend!
 

Corners

Delivery & execution at this level is far better than the Championship add that in to the seeming uncertainty in the zonal system & a merry-go-round of keepers & you can see the underlying causes of the problem. Some interesting thoughts on here which a have merit. Really down to BR & the players to thrash this out in short time. Individual errors are also a factor & we seem to have a fair few of those of late. Individual & collective responsibility need to align pretty quickly. Over to you & the coaching staff TF....
 

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I think it was the first goal on Saturday Raya was blocked from leaving his line. That is easy to sort and I am sure that was down to a constant change of personal .
 

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Mark H said:
I think it was the first goal on Saturday Raya was blocked from leaving his line. That is easy to sort and I am sure that was down to a constant change of personal .
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I think maybe Raya or whoever in goal at the time should change starting position too. Have him stand 4 yards out instead of on his line. In theory it would make it easier to come and claim crosses but no keeper ever does it so it's probably a bad idea :unsure:

or maybe it's genius and BFC should employ me as the new defensive corner coach (y)
 

Corners

Believe Janelt circled surely he’s better picking up than Rico on there centre backs attacking the box for a start.
 

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Corners

I think it’s a case of trying to be too clever tbh. Your two smallest players go on the posts, you man mark the big men with your big men and you have someone like Toney at the front post to head away a near post inswinger. Your quickest couple of players stay up. This is Sunday League stuff ??‍♂️
 

Corners

I’ve always hated zonal marking even from back when I was playing
If your marking space and the ball doesn’t go there your doing NOTHING at least if your going man for man your marking a player to either win the ball,put them off or getting the 2nd ball,we simply must stop conceding from corners if we persevere and keep conceding it’s just unacceptable
 

Corners

Our penalty area always seems to be crowded, And as already pointed out why not leave 2 smaller players near the half way line, That will take at least 5 players out of the penalty area creating more space to manoeuvre, What about men on the back posts like the old days, Or is that old hat now, Our defenders seem to be more concerned watching the opposing players rather than the ball, This continuous disarray at the back is costing us dearly, The annoying thing is it's happening time and time again and nothing appears to be done about it.
 

Corners

Am I right in thinking we don't have a set piece coach any more after Andrea's Georgson left for Arsenal? Was that anything to do with cost-cutting, due to Covid? But it seems ever since he left, and we seemingly haven't appointed anyone, we have been abysmal from set pieces
 

Corners

This was City v Fulham when Fulham leaving 2 men up field.
 

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Corners

We have almost as much xG from throw-in's by ourselves as the rest of the Premier League combined has, so on this front we have been extremely innovative and the coaching is working.

I think we are about average on offensive set piece xG, which is fine I guess. Not a big issue, in any case, although I do tend to find the Premier League to be strangely poor at corners and set pieces, so you'd hope we could get more out of this.

On the defensive set pieces, we are just shambles. Whatever we're trying to do, whether it's zonal or mixed or whatever marking, it's been awful. Maybe it's down to personnel change, but that just means we have to develop a more robust system to that kind of change, because it's unacceptable for us to be climbing out of a hole every match because we concede on a corner in the 12th minute.
 

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Invipai said:
I think we've just been rumbled a bit, opposition scouting teams are very deep at this level and will pick up on weaknesses to exploit in a way that we probably weren't used to in
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No, that it an urban myth, you are sussed out after 4 minutes of the first game as the stadium is packed with spies with a 1 inch folder on every player. We have stopped winning the first header, no more, no less than that. We were dealing with it perfectly and atually causing chaos at the far end from the same thing.
 

Corners

Its unbelievable how many times per game the routine with Toney peeling away at the back seems to work !
 

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AB said:
Earlier in the season we had Pinnock doing that
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Shhh!

Defending corners has improved but the first ball is rarely cleared to a Brentford player. A bit like chess you need to know where all the pieces will be a few moves ahead. Eriksens head is on a swivel all the time noting where everyone is.
 
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Corners

I just looked up the stats on who scored.com

We've scored 14 goals from set pieces this season which is joint 3rd most in the premier league this season along with Southampton. Only Man City and Liverpool have scored more goals from set pieces than us.

We've conceded 9 goals from set pieces this season which is the joint 7th least amount of goals conceded in the league this season.

Our set piece differential of +5 is the joint 5th best in the premier league this season. Man City are the best with +19 ?

Credit to Brian Riemer who i believe is in charge of set pieces at the training ground.
 

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CTBee said:
We've conceded 9 goals from set pieces this season which is the joint 7th least amount of goals conceded in the league this season.
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and I have a feeling a lot of those were in a cluster when we seemed to have forgotten how to defend them during our run of poor results whilst missing key injured defenders.
 

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TeeJayBee said:
and I have a feeling a lot of those were in a cluster when we seemed to have forgotten how to defend them during our run of poor results whilst missing key injured defenders.
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I don't have the stats to back it up but I reckon the vast majority of goals conceded from set pieces were when Raya was out injured.
 
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