Crowds under Noades

[NorthamptonBee]

Now crowds under Noades were appalling for the talent on show and yet we have 10k plus under Scott and the current regime with some big ones to follow. I always hated Noades and have stated a few times that I stopped coming to GP as he turned me off Brentford, I can't have been alone. Noades was his own worst enemy thank feck that us "thick pratts" have got our Brentford back, I'm still waiting to raise a glass when I next hear some news regarding Ronny baby.

 

[Sandhurstbee]

We won the league under Noads, Like it or not, Have not got figures for crowds but Only One of 10,000 under Scott. Good to see you remained `Loyal` NB - Most of Noads team went onto play higher level Why worry about Noads now? A couple of more victories and we can celebrate under Scott, should even top 10,000 again against Luton Pikies.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

We won the league under Noads, Like it or not, Have not got figures for crowds but Only One of 10,000 under Scott. Good to see you remained `Loyal` NB - Most of Noads team went onto play higher level Why worry about Noads now? A couple of more victories and we can celebrate under Scott, should even top 10,000 again against Luton Pikies.

I don't worry about Noades now but he said we were nothing whereas I feel we are something and the feel good factor will always bring people through the gates rather than telling them they must turn up.
How could we not win the title under Noades, it was a disgrace that it took so long.

 

[MarkBexleyBee]

Everything's going well, everybody is happy so why open up a debate that drags us back into the Noades era again. Pointless.

 

[wanderer paul]

we averaged 5444 in 98-99, Cardiff was 9500 and Orient was 8200. (Attendances of note.)

 

[Brian Mason]

I think it's an interesting comparison that shows the current regime in a much better light than that of dear old Uncle Ron.

Our crowds are higher now as it feels like OUR club now.

 

[SmiffyBee]

.....Why worry about Noads now?

It's like saying, why worry about the collapse of the sub-prime mortgage market in the US.....we will be suffering the effects of the Noades era for many years to come

 

[NorthamptonBee]

I think it's an interesting comparison that shows the current regime in a much better light than that of dear old Uncle Ron.

Our crowds are higher now as it feels like OUR club now.

So it's not a pointless thread and precisely my point. You go to games now thinking that we are Brentford and not wondering what the old c***(not abee) would be up to next. The sun shone the same as it did back then but it's far sunnier now.

 

[jharvey85]

What prompted you to post this? Is he in the news or something?

 

[SmiffyBee]

What prompted you to post this? Is he in the news or something?

He gets flashbacks

He is one of those "what if..." kind of guys

 

[wanderer paul]

averaging 5283 this season to date in League games (20)

if we have 24000 attending in our last 3 matches (7000 v Exeter/5500 v Accy/11500 v Luton) then our average attendances this season will be better than 1998-99.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

What prompted you to post this? Is he in the news or something?

Sadly not, just one more bit of news about him I would imagine.
I was geeking at Simon Jordan's rant about Newcastle and read his Noades bit again.

 

[rebus]

We won the league under Noads,

Yes, but at what cost? We lost £1.5million that season with Hermann on 3k a week. Noades was sold the line that the crowds would flock back if he flashed a bit of cash and when it didn't happen he whinged like crazy.

The best thing about this season is that it's an organic way of - touch wood - success.

 

[Brain-dead Bee]

Yes, but at what cost? We lost £1.5million that season with Hermann on 3k a week. Noades was sold the line that the crowds would flock back if he flashed a bit of cash and when it didn't happen he whinged like crazy.

The best thing about this season is that it's an organic way of - touch wood - success.

Hermann was arguably our main financial success, even on £3k pw, as we made such a big profit on selling him. I think where it seemed to go haywire was on paying OTT fees and wages for decent lower division players, with little prospect of good profits... especially when the Bosman rule came in

This season we seem to have controlled the finances much better though - with the possible exception of Sam Wood - I see no-one likely to bring in substantial transfer income.

Interesting to note that the average crowd seems likely to be the same as 10 years ago +/- 100.

 

[HertfordBee]

Yes, but at what cost? We lost £1.5million that season with Hermann on 3k a week. Noades was sold the line that the crowds would flock back if he flashed a bit of cash and when it didn't happen he whinged like crazy.

It's precisely that which has always puzzled me about Noades "success" as a businessman. The simplest of research would have told him that history shows the sort of crowds he hoped for/anticipated just weren't going to happen.

 

[Luke Kirton]

especially when the Bosman rule came in

Just to pick you up on this one point. Ron often quoted Bosman as a reason for not being able to sell players at a resonable profit.

However the Bosman rule didn't come in during is tenure.

Bosman ruling December 1995
Ron Noades started at Brentford July 1998.

All players bought at that time were done so in the full knowledge of the Bosman Ruling and its implications

 

[Alan D]

It's precisely that which has always puzzled me about Noades "success" as a businessman. The simplest of research would have told him that history shows the sort of crowds he hoped for/anticipated just weren't going to happen.

Believe you me I have no love whatsoever for Uncle Ron. Yet somehow I think he came with good intentions, but soon got pissed off when he realised that what people told him about crowd potential simply did not happen.

He fell for the line that a successful Brentford would attract crowds bigger than QPR. Whilst that may have been true in the 60's, it most certainly wasn't true when he took over. Nevertheless, one would have thought that a so called successful business man would have done better research before making a move for the club.

 

[abee]

Just to pick you up on this one point. Ron often quoted Bosman as a reason for not being able to sell players at a resonable profit.

However the Bosman rule didn't come in during is tenure.

Bosman ruling December 1995
Ron Noades started at Brentford July 1998.

All players bought at that time were done so in the full knowledge of the Bosman Ruling and its implications

Thanks for saving me the trouble Luke.

This was one of my (many) beefs with Noades and the way that he ran the club; I believe that it was in a Beesotted interview that he started blaming the Bosman ruling and his attention was gently drawn to the fact that it was in place two years before he started giving Brentford FC the benefit of his business management skills.

 

[jharvey85]

When i type Ron Noades into my google toolbar, it gives me the option of selecting:

Ron Noades Mum
Ron Noades Racist
Ron Black Players

Something to ponder.

 

[Bungy Bee]

Believe that one of the reason's RN left was because of the small crowds...and having a successful team..he even sold AS...

 

[cheekybee74]

Believe that one of the reason's RN left was because of the small crowds...and having a successful team..he even sold AS...

didn't he sell him to Oxford after he scored a hat-trick against them??

 

[Wise old Bee]

I can't accept that there was anything about BFC that came as a surprise to RN. He knew football and he knew football in west London, he had even been chairman of dear old Southall before his Palace days. I was still really pleased when he came to GP because I thought he would have the nous to take the club on, but I got that wrong. I can't believe that anyone would stay away because of dislike of RN. Chairman, boards, managers and players come and go and some we like and some we don't but supporters stay loyal, don't they?

 

[NorthamptonBee]

I can't believe that anyone would stay away because of dislike of RN. Chairman, boards, managers and players come and go and some we like and some we don't but supporters stay loyal, don't they?

I felt that with Noades he played a "will he, wont he" game and in the end/middle I decided to determine my own fate and not have that souless personality decide how I was going to feel. I keep reading stuff begging him not to sell players and his question and answer session sort of replied with "Well, it's your fault." Obviously we can never control our football club but he was a control freak who I didn't want to control me. The next season under Wally where we led the league after 9 games with a sh*te team was far more satisfying to me than any of the cloak and dagger Noades doing us favour crap.

 

[Wise old Bee]

I actually found the Webb/Swaisland period one of the more distateful but it was a mere fart in the wind compared to Noades. By and large I am usually oblivious to what is going on behind the scenes and have no contact with the club other than as a bloke on the terraces. I have rarely spoken to players or directors over the years and prefer it that way. Ignorance was certainly bliss when looking back on what Noades was up to.

 

[Luke Kirton]

Obviously we can never control our football club

We do

 

[Sweepy]

When i type Ron Noades into my google toolbar, it gives me the option of selecting:

Ron Noades Mum
Ron Noades Racist
Ron Black Players

Something to ponder.

I assume that safesearch on your work's computer mean that Ron Noades C*nt and Ron Noades Pr*ck didn't come up as options.

 

[JOABee]

It's like saying, why worry about the collapse of the sub-prime mortgage market in the US.....we will be suffering the effects of the Noades era for many years to come

neither of those things really warrant a tumbs up.......

 

[Carri Bee Un]

Everything's going well, everybody is happy so why open up a debate that drags us back into the Noades era again. Pointless.

It's just a comparison and an interesting one. While it's always important to focus on now and the future, there are lessons from that era that should never be forgotten. People that forget Noades are often the ones who want BU to give it all up to some fairy godmother millionaire.

 

[Banana]

Thanks for saving me the trouble Luke.

This was one of my (many) beefs with Noades and the way that he ran the club; I believe that it was in a Beesotted interview that he started blaming the Bosman ruling and his attention was gently drawn to the fact that it was in place two years before he started giving Brentford FC the benefit of his business management skills.

IIRC (there is a thread on the GPG relating to this started by yours truly). The Beesotted interview was very early in Noades's tenure and Noades himself referred to the Bosman ruling and its implications for BFC et al.

Later in his tenure he started blaming the Bosman case,

Edit: Here is the thread that refers to the Beesotted interview https://griffinpark.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14898

and the thread here relating to him blaming Bosman https://griffinpark.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16410 which includes various rebutals to that statement he made at the time

Finally, after the GPG broke the news about Ron's return to GP we had a vote the results of which were conclusive.

 

[JVT4000]

Mutch as I dislike Noades, no one seems to be taking any notice of Wanderer Paul's stats that show the idea that crowds are flocking back under the 'good times' isn't exactly happening, and the averages for the two seasons are pretty similar.

Yes, we all know he f*cked up the club, but we need to be focussing on the future and how to increase the attendances. Easier said than done so I'll leave that to the good people in charge of the club now.

 

[GEOFFBEE]

Mutch as I dislike Noades, no one seems to be taking any notice of Wanderer Paul's stats that show the idea that crowds are flocking back under the 'good times' isn't exactly happening, and the averages for the two seasons are pretty similar.

Yes, we all know he f*cked up the club, but we need to be focussing on the future and how to increase the attendances. Easier said than done so I'll leave that to the good people in charge of the club now.

Well said.
The only point I would add to the 'crowd comparison' is that we are now virtually matching the previous average without the 'benefit' of big signings etc., which does, I believe, reflect very well on AS. etc. If we should win this division it will, in my opinion, be much more creditable than last time.Hopefully, the crowds will grow and grow.
We can certainly learn from the past, but, yes, now is the time for all of us to focus on getting more support for the club, on and off the pitch.

 

[SH]

If we should win this division it will, in my opinion, be much more creditable than last time. Hopefully, the crowds will grow and grow. We can certainly learn from the past, but, yes, now is the time for all of us to focus on getting more support for the club, on and off the pitch.

Found the below chart of attendances 95-06 on an interesting site about football economics http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats2/eng_brentford.htm

Looks like this year will be very much in line with the "average" since 94/5, i.e. a hardcore 5500-6000. The two years under MA (04/05 and 05/06) seem to suggest a bit of publicity can pull in another 1000 or so.

Hopefully, the return to League One with more attractive and better followed oppo, some consistent good publicity about the way Andy sets out his sides and the plain and simple feelgood factor that has returned - as well as the attractive early bird season tickets - could point towards a 7000 average next year. What do you think?

View attachment 8865

 

[LostBee]

So to sum up....

The crowds are more or less the same as the last time we were doing OK in this poxy division and Ron Noades is,was and always will be a bastard....

thanks for the vital info guys

 

[MetalBee]

The crowds in general are pretty similar because we seem to have a core support of about 4,000 give or take a few hundred.

When things are going well we can attract twice as many and then some. When they're not and we're in the bottom division and those who only come when things are going well seem to have a general view that we're just little old Brentford whose results they look out for on the tele down the pub after the Man United/Liverpool/Chelsea/Arasenal results. When they fancy watching a game and the weather is nice if we're doing well they'll come to us as it's cheaper.

Others are an older generation who have become disilusioned with it all over the years they're currently only coming now and then to see how things are going.

Next year of we're having a decent season we should average closer to 6,000. These will likely be made up mostly of the disilusioned "old guard" but unfourtunately as far as regular attendances go we won't get that many until we're at a higher level.

On the plus side though there does seem to be a very high number of young kids and teenagers at the games now who'll bring mates along etc so that bodes well for the future and hopefully we can get our core support up by a few more thousand.

Atm it's still that core of about 4 thousand who'll attend every game they can however well we're playing and in whatever division. Same as it was 10 years ago. Doesn't matter who's in charge so much as far as getting those disillusioned ones back.

Scotty and Terry are doing a good job and it's generating a good atmosphere. With the high amount of a younger generation in attendance their first/greatest football memories are hopefully going to be good ones and they're hopefully going to stick around for more of the same and encourage their mates to come and see a winning team.

I can only just about remember ten years ago but can very much remember the nearly years under Martin Allen and unfourtunately relegations and struggling seasons so this season for me if we do win it will be my greatest season memory. I consider myself one of the core 4,000 odd but I certainly know what kind of season I prefer and we're all much happier when it's going well obviously.

I'd rather focus on the good times now and think hopefully about a changing future than worry about the past

 

[West Wilts Bee]

Believe you me I have no love whatsoever for Uncle Ron. Yet somehow I think he came with good intentions, but soon got pissed off when he realised that what people told him about crowd potential simply did not happen.

He fell for the line that a successful Brentford would attract crowds bigger than QPR. Whilst that may have been true in the 60's, it most certainly wasn't true when he took over. Nevertheless, one would have thought that a so called successful business man would have done better research before making a move for the club.

Sorry your wrong, he came with the intention of selling GP, and making himself £millions end of>

 

[Markybee]

Now crowds under Noades were appalling for the talent on show and yet we have 10k plus under Scott and the current regime with some big ones to follow. I always hated Noades and have stated a few times that I stopped coming to GP as he turned me off Brentford

Sorry Big man. No one individual could turn me off Brentford. :shrug:

Not even Murray Jones

 

[Newport Pagnell Bee]

Sorry your wrong, he came with the intention of selling GP, and making himself £millions end of>

Abosolutely! Ron "good intentions" Noades. Do me a favour!! Thank God some bees fans saw through him at the time. Not enough of us though (& unfortunately that includes me.

 

[Carri Bee Un]

The crowds are more or less the same as the last time we were doing OK in this poxy division and Ron Noades is,was and always will be a bastard....

thanks for the vital info guys

We aim to keep you informed and up to date :yes:

 

[Luton Bee]

Sorry your wrong, he came with the intention of selling GP, and making himself £millions end of>

So how come he didn't?

 

[Les Beeavinu]

So how come he didn't?

He certainly made money out of BFC didn't he? The reason he didn't do the former was because of the actions of BFC fans.

 

[SmiffyBee]

So how come he didn't?

He certainly made money out of BFC didn't he? The reason he didn't do the former was because of the actions of BFC fans.

Toast the Success of Fan Power Luton Bee.....

 

[GEOFFBEE]

Found the below chart of attendances 95-06 on an interesting site about football economics http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats2/eng_brentford.htm

Looks like this year will be very much in line with the "average" since 94/5, i.e. a hardcore 5500-6000. The two years under MA (04/05 and 05/06) seem to suggest a bit of publicity can pull in another 1000 or so.

Hopefully, the return to League One with more attractive and better followed oppo, some consistent good publicity about the way Andy sets out his sides and the plain and simple feelgood factor that has returned - as well as the attractive early bird season tickets - could point towards a 7000 average next year. What do you think?

View attachment 8865

Well done.I think you have made some good points, and thanks for the graph!
Very interesting. I also agree with the sentiments in your last paragraph.I can only add that, as we are up against the strong counter-attractions of much bigger clubs in West London, we have to continually look for additional ways of enticing fans back to Griffin Park, and ensuring that they enjoy the experience when they are here.Now that we have some more guys with marketing and business experience on the BFC and BU boards, I hope this will result in more initiatives, and I wish them well with this. Additionally, I think we can all play our part by bringing more folk with us, and creating a great atmosphere that will, hopefully,make these new fans want to come back for more!

 

[AB]

A 7000 average next year will only happen if we are consistently in the mix for the top 6 from early on in the season. It will be helped by L1 having the maximum number of teams with large away followings and their games at GP being on Saturday afternoons (if we're doing well, we should be looking at 10k for Saturday pm games against Charlton, Southampton, Leeds, Norwich, decent crowds for Southend, Wycombe, Gillingham and Orient getting up towards 10k if they are also doing well). However, if we are tipped to do well, I suspect that some or all of those big games will get scheduled for midweek to get on telly, Ok for Charlton or Saints, not so good for big clubs who have unfeasible round trips to complete.

If we're bumping around mid-table attendances are not going to be substantially higher than this season.

 

[Paul O'Brien]

It's interesting going back and seeing what the attendances were under Ron. I could have sworn we had bigger gates then, but I was totally wrong. Mind you, having said that the attendances this year will be artificially oomphed by the WW game.

Re Bosman: I think I'm right in saying that although Bosman came into effect in 95, the interpretation for the first two or three years was that you had to play a transfer fee if a player was moving between two clubs in the same country: if he was moving abroad, you didn't.

In 98, a review took place that reinterpreted the ruling. Thereafter Bosman as we know it today (as affected by Webster) kicked in. I'm not sure of exactly when in 98 the change took place though. Surely the issue at the time thnat affected the transfer market even more, however, was the ITV Digital collapse?

 

[AB]

Does anyone know why the football365 stats don't include our attendance for the Wycombe game?

 

[Simon C]

It's interesting going back and seeing what the attendances were under Ron. I could have sworn we had bigger gates then, but I was totally wrong. Mind you, having said that the attendances this year will be artificially oomphed by the WW game.

Re Bosman: I think I'm right in saying that although Bosman came into effect in 95, the interpretation for the first two or three years was that you had to play a transfer fee if a player was moving between two clubs in the same country: if he was moving abroad, you didn't.

In 98, a review took place that reinterpreted the ruling. Thereafter Bosman as we know it today (as affected by Webster) kicked in. I'm not sure of exactly when in 98 the change took place though. Surely the issue at the time thnat affected the transfer market even more, however, was the ITV Digital collapse?

Ron had already given up when ITV digital collapsed

 

[Brain-dead Bee]

It's interesting going back and seeing what the attendances were under Ron. I could have sworn we had bigger gates then, but I was totally wrong. Mind you, having said that the attendances this year will be artificially oomphed by the WW game.

Why "artificially"? If we'd let everyone in free, that might have been an artificial boost, but it was no more artificial than whatever was the largest gate in the Noades season

 

[rebus]

Surely the issue at the time thnat affected the transfer market even more, however, was the ITV Digital collapse?

Ron "gave up" around October 2000 when Rotherham came here and won 3-0 without breaking sweat. The final seal was delivered after the Kingstonian game, when he stepped down as manager. This was eighteen months before the problems of ITV digital.

As quick as a flash, all the trappings were taken away. The club sent back its very expensive loanees (Crowe, Austin), moved to a cheaper training ground and so on.

I was told at the time that Noades was willing to put money in on a cash basis when he arrived but David Waddington, his FD at Altonwood, persuaded him otherwise. Waddington never wanted Noades to get involved in BFC after the windfall Goldberg gave him for buying Palace and he made Brentford pay, emotionally and literally.

Waddington asked the then club bankers Nat West for a £5million overdraft, they - quite rightly - refused and BFC to turned to Barclays, who said yes. The rest is history.

 

[Paul O'Brien]

Ron had already given up when ITV digital collapsed

Yes, checking back you're right.

 

[West Wilts Bee]

So how come he didn't?

Perhaps you had better ask PJ, Paul Steadman, Bish, abee, Luke Kurton(hope I spelt it right) and others. Because they had the bastard weighed up. and without their insight I very much doubt we would be enjoying this season.
What does amaze me is how naive many of our fans are.
,