Les Beeavinu
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Director Allen
Do we think MA barking instructions at players every movement helps them express themselves or makes them introverted and scared of failure?
Director Allen
- Thread starter Les Beeavinu
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Claire
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Bigbee
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Canadian Bee
GPG's Public Enemy No1
wobblywombat
Very definitely a woman..
Director Allen
Like it makes a real difference - do you really think they can hear what he's saying with all that noise going on...!
JANORAK
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Director Allen
King Bee said:
Yeah, but I don't think they bothered listening to Wally, did they?
blunstone
Active member
Director Allen
two year's ago we would have been thrilled and delighted top be in the top six ---- and to have the squad we have today.
let's not get too carried away with a couple of losses!
our main problems are off the field not on.
let's not get too carried away with a couple of losses!
our main problems are off the field not on.
OP
OP
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
Director Allen
The two are linked. The board backed an increased playing budget in the hope that crowds would rise and promotion would follow.
MA is therefore not immune from the criticism because the inability to find the right formula for successful attacking football is his reponsibility. If we have many more performances like last Saturday (and it's been coming for a while) then we aren't going to achieve either of the above and therefore he will have failed in his objective.
Of course promotion can never be guaranteed but when you see one dimensional footballers being embarrassed by quick and nimble Bournemouth reserves, you know there's a lot of work to be done.
Let's hope that MA pulls it off because we have adopted an extremely high risk strategy.
MA is therefore not immune from the criticism because the inability to find the right formula for successful attacking football is his reponsibility. If we have many more performances like last Saturday (and it's been coming for a while) then we aren't going to achieve either of the above and therefore he will have failed in his objective.
Of course promotion can never be guaranteed but when you see one dimensional footballers being embarrassed by quick and nimble Bournemouth reserves, you know there's a lot of work to be done.
Let's hope that MA pulls it off because we have adopted an extremely high risk strategy.
banburybee
Active member
Director Allen
So Les you dollied up this post to deliver your opinion on MAs failings.
I do not disagree that the football has been poor but to talk of a high risk strategy is to ignore the fact that without more money we could not build a team to stay in the division let alone get promotion. I think the unpalatable truth is that Brentford FC do not have the income nor the prospect of an income sufficient to remaining a viable Div 1 club and probably not a viable Football league club.
However we cling to the micawberesque hope that 'something will turn up'. I just hope it will.
I do not agree with the MA tactics making us hard to beat but also hard to take nor do I think he has bought especially wisely but I do not think that pointing at increased budgets as his particular fault is fair. I have no insider knowledge unlike many on this site but my amateur supporter view is that the club had no option like most other clubs than to gamble on success. Rangers did it and it worked (so far) but it looks like at the moment it will not work for us.
I am of the school that says go down playing football so the tactics must change but I do not think we have the players to do this nor a manager with the tactical nous to achieve it.
HOWEVER having said that most of the past 18 months have been fun so why not back it for a while longer or at least til we go under?
See you at Rochdale
I do not disagree that the football has been poor but to talk of a high risk strategy is to ignore the fact that without more money we could not build a team to stay in the division let alone get promotion. I think the unpalatable truth is that Brentford FC do not have the income nor the prospect of an income sufficient to remaining a viable Div 1 club and probably not a viable Football league club.
However we cling to the micawberesque hope that 'something will turn up'. I just hope it will.
I do not agree with the MA tactics making us hard to beat but also hard to take nor do I think he has bought especially wisely but I do not think that pointing at increased budgets as his particular fault is fair. I have no insider knowledge unlike many on this site but my amateur supporter view is that the club had no option like most other clubs than to gamble on success. Rangers did it and it worked (so far) but it looks like at the moment it will not work for us.
I am of the school that says go down playing football so the tactics must change but I do not think we have the players to do this nor a manager with the tactical nous to achieve it.
HOWEVER having said that most of the past 18 months have been fun so why not back it for a while longer or at least til we go under?
See you at Rochdale
BournemouthBee
Active member
Director Allen
I'm a bit confused here - having seen most of the Bees' matches last season just when did MA get the formula right for successful attacking? With the exception of Doncaster at home at the beginning of the season (where we scored 4 goals) we never turned over any team in style. MA's teams work hard, can be moderately aggressive and tend to hang onto 1-0 leads once getting their noses in front.
I think we're expecting a little too much from the team at the moment and last Saturday was just one of those days. Yes, we do need someone to bang in the goals but as has been stated on other threads the supply only comes from Tabby and when he's off form I don't see the likes of Junior Lewis and Eddie Hutch playing through balls or taking on defenders down the wing!
I think we're expecting a little too much from the team at the moment and last Saturday was just one of those days. Yes, we do need someone to bang in the goals but as has been stated on other threads the supply only comes from Tabby and when he's off form I don't see the likes of Junior Lewis and Eddie Hutch playing through balls or taking on defenders down the wing!
OP
OP
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
Director Allen
I appear to have broken the golden rule "Whatever happens, don't blame Martin Allen".
Sorry, but when the product on this pitch is poor, he takes responsibility and he said as much in his press conference on Saturday. He must also take responsibility for delivering the expected results that I'm sure he would have persuaded the board he could achieve. That's why football mangers get paid a lot of money and he can't be immune for from criticism because he's a diamond geezer. Wally Downes got half his budget and didn't receive that luxury and quite rightly so.
I'm not basing my opinion on a knee jerk reaction to Saturday but as an observation on our inability to consistently score goals last season and this.
Sorry, but when the product on this pitch is poor, he takes responsibility and he said as much in his press conference on Saturday. He must also take responsibility for delivering the expected results that I'm sure he would have persuaded the board he could achieve. That's why football mangers get paid a lot of money and he can't be immune for from criticism because he's a diamond geezer. Wally Downes got half his budget and didn't receive that luxury and quite rightly so.
I'm not basing my opinion on a knee jerk reaction to Saturday but as an observation on our inability to consistently score goals last season and this.
BournemouthBee
Active member
Director Allen
Re: breaking golden rule - I've been supporting BFC since 1977 and I've never known one of our managers to be held in such high esteem as Martin Allen is.
I met him for the first time in the summer holidays when I took my daughter along to watch them train. He came over and introduced himself, we had a chat, he arranged for photos to be taken and even offered to make me a cup of tea! He is charming and a thoroughly nice guy.
But....however nice he may be he is not immune to criticism. I'd like to think of myself as a good manager for my staff at work but if I get it wrong I expect constructive criticism from those in the know. Surely 30 odd years of supporting gives us some knowledge of how a team should be managed and play?
I met him for the first time in the summer holidays when I took my daughter along to watch them train. He came over and introduced himself, we had a chat, he arranged for photos to be taken and even offered to make me a cup of tea! He is charming and a thoroughly nice guy.
But....however nice he may be he is not immune to criticism. I'd like to think of myself as a good manager for my staff at work but if I get it wrong I expect constructive criticism from those in the know. Surely 30 odd years of supporting gives us some knowledge of how a team should be managed and play?
jlove
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Director Allen
I think that anyone listening to (or reading) his AFCB post-match interview will know that the biggest criticism has come from himself.
He has put his hand up, admitted he made a poor selection and has expressed a determination to win on Saturday. Not much more we can add to that.
An observation I have is that we have a goal-keeping coach; we have a defensive coach in Whit and; a mid-field coach in MA - we don't seem to have a forwards' coach. Under Clownes we did have Gary Thompson and it was noticeable that he was out on the pitch working on crosses and shooting with the strikers. Never seen that under MA.
Not that we can afford anyone extra on the staff! Surely Martin can rope in an old pal for a week or two?
He has put his hand up, admitted he made a poor selection and has expressed a determination to win on Saturday. Not much more we can add to that.
An observation I have is that we have a goal-keeping coach; we have a defensive coach in Whit and; a mid-field coach in MA - we don't seem to have a forwards' coach. Under Clownes we did have Gary Thompson and it was noticeable that he was out on the pitch working on crosses and shooting with the strikers. Never seen that under MA.
Not that we can afford anyone extra on the staff! Surely Martin can rope in an old pal for a week or two?
OP
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Les Beeavinu
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exiledbee
Active member
Director Allen
All I can sat is if any professional player, let alone a striker, needs coaching on how to shoot, then he probably needs to find another job! When you consider how many thousands play competative football at various levels in the U.K., then it would seem reasonable to me to expect pros playing two divs from the very top ,to be very talented indeed. Am I being unfair?
jlove
Well-known member
Director Allen
I think a coach would be analysing their weak points and improving their technique - I think they need it!
Primarily, a coach will be working on getting them to play together, on various tactics to be used in the game and particularly on set plays - an area where we are particularly awful. The long throw to the near post is particularly predictable and I can't remember us scoring from a set piece this season, except when gifted by the opposition (Chesterfield).
Primarily, a coach will be working on getting them to play together, on various tactics to be used in the game and particularly on set plays - an area where we are particularly awful. The long throw to the near post is particularly predictable and I can't remember us scoring from a set piece this season, except when gifted by the opposition (Chesterfield).
Director Allen
exiledbee said:
A little....all players need constant coaching and practice, Beckham achieves his Hollywood passes and free kicks by practising them 50/100 times a day. Players go off form or lose their confidence and they need a good coach to get it back.
What's worrying is that some of these comments about current tactics and coaching are very reminiscent of those made in Wally's latter days.
It struck me watching last Saturday's debacle that some of the techniques for taking shots at goal were park football in standard, no composure or getting body shape over the ball... i put it down to confidence but you do wonder.
Director Allen
The near post throw in or corner might have more success if we posted a man on the back post. It often reaches that far.
In addition we don't use the width of the pitch. I feel that in Sam Tillen and Paul Brooker we have a couple who could do this and get in telling crosses. Or am I in a dream world?e
In addition we don't use the width of the pitch. I feel that in Sam Tillen and Paul Brooker we have a couple who could do this and get in telling crosses. Or am I in a dream world?e
Director Allen
I thought a lot of his shouting/directing on Sat was an attempt to get Hutch to at least impersonate a footballer... Didn't work though.
As for the tactics - I think that Allen deserves most of the credit he gets (and will continue to get) from the fans. But I think there are genuine question marks over his tactical and coaching abilities. He is very charismatic with both team and support, and excellent at motivating - but does he have what it takes in terms of team organisation?
I don't think we can answer that yet. But I'm glad we've got him.
As for the tactics - I think that Allen deserves most of the credit he gets (and will continue to get) from the fans. But I think there are genuine question marks over his tactical and coaching abilities. He is very charismatic with both team and support, and excellent at motivating - but does he have what it takes in terms of team organisation?
I don't think we can answer that yet. But I'm glad we've got him.
Director Allen
...............maybe the manager and First Team Coach are too similar and don't have complimentary skills?
Whatever you thought about Coppell and Downes they were as like as chalk and cheese, it was only when the cheese (or was it the chalk) left that things started going pear shaped.
Whatever you thought about Coppell and Downes they were as like as chalk and cheese, it was only when the cheese (or was it the chalk) left that things started going pear shaped.
Silly Chip
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Director Allen
You obviously accept the mediocre style of play under MA. Yes MA is doing an incredible job given the limitations....but watching Brentford has become very chore like. Perhaps it's me...frustrated and bored with the off the field s**t going on, it's finally soured the on the pitch side of Brentfordblunstonebabe said:
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JANORAK
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Egham Pete
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Director Allen
I think that we have played some quality stuff under MA, which is why he is held in such high esteem, and thought of as better than Downes. Just remember some of the games last season where we doubled up hunt and solako, tabb and o’connor, (and even hunt, tabb and solako) against opposition fullbacks, we were playing some particularly sweet attacking football, and getting the results.
Unfortunately this year does not appear to have happened with injuries to skulason and newman and a lack of width at times, but somehow we still remain fourth, which seems to be testament to the quality (or lack of) in this division. Personally I would like to see a bit more composure in possession and more wing play, although only having tabb and brooker capable of beating a defender and putting a decent ball in, I might be waiting a while.
Unfortunately this year does not appear to have happened with injuries to skulason and newman and a lack of width at times, but somehow we still remain fourth, which seems to be testament to the quality (or lack of) in this division. Personally I would like to see a bit more composure in possession and more wing play, although only having tabb and brooker capable of beating a defender and putting a decent ball in, I might be waiting a while.