Directors' Loans

[Bigbee]

Directors loan

Does any one know if Doug White and all the other directors have fully paid up their directors loans ? I know Dougs was £100k to be on the board and the others were less .

 

[Ace Face]

Doug was invited on for free because of his experience and the cost savings he has delivered for our aspirations for the LR development.

I am not sure about whether ER has delivered the promised extra funding.

 

[Banana]

Doug was invited on for free because of his experience and the cost savings he has delivered for our aspirations for the LR development.

Why wasn't John Mac invited on for free then?

 

[Bigbee]

My mate works in a big corporate and has guaranteed me the toner business,I know alot about toners.I'll ask if I can be on their board ,good idea.Hes promised he wont get any other quotes

 

[Russell]

Why wasn't John Mac invited on for free then?

'Cos it would've saved paying JM £18k a year wouldn't it?!!

 

[Russell]

Doug was invited on for free because of his experience and the cost savings he has delivered for our aspirations for the LR development.

I am not sure about whether ER has delivered the promised extra funding.

I'm a bit confused by all this directorship malarky.

First off, Noades said £25k per director so that's what BU coughed up for JM to join the board. Then the "entrance fee" got hoicked up to £100k for AW and SC to join, but Noades had final say on the suitablility and credentials of the personality. I'm not sure if this was for both or each, no doubt abee can fill in the gaps. Then DW joins the board and pays.... nothing. How is DW's "expertise", of which I am not qualified to question and do not, count as a place on the board for free but AW's for instance doesn't? Is DW spending weeks and months working on Lionel Road and Griffin Park development plans and then invoicing Brentford with "paid in full" stamped on the bottom? And when DW considers he's done £100k's worth of work, does he start faxing invoices through in time-honoured fashion?

Now before Bish starts saying I'm having a bash at DW, I ain't. What I'm confused and concerned about is what appears to be the double, nay treble standards of what "supporters" are asked to give for a place on the board as I've just listed above. I thought any work done by supporters was for the love of Brentford, not for commercial gain. If it's not, watch out for PJ's invoice for the last few years!!

Maybe it's "all supporters are equal but some supporters are more equal than others".

Cue the abuse.....

 

[King Bee]

I'm a bit confused by all this directorship malarky.

First off, Noades said £25k per director so that's what BU coughed up for JM to join the board. Then the "entrance fee" got hoicked up to £100k for AW and SC to join, but Noades had final say on the suitablility and credentials of the personality. I'm not sure if this was for both or each, no doubt abee can fill in the gaps. Then DW joins the board and pays.... nothing. How is DW's "expertise", of which I am not qualified to question and do not, count as a place on the board for free but AW's for instance doesn't? Is DW spending weeks and months working on Lionel Road and Griffin Park development plans and then invoicing Brentford with "paid in full" stamped on the bottom? And when DW considers he's done £100k's worth of work, does he start faxing invoices through in time-honoured fashion?

Now before Bish starts saying I'm having a bash at DW, I ain't. What I'm confused and concerned about is what appears to be the double, nay treble standards of what "supporters" are asked to give for a place on the board as I've just listed above. I thought any work done by supporters was for the love of Brentford, not for commercial gain. If it's not, watch out for PJ's invoice for the last few years!!

Maybe it's "all supporters are equal but some supporters are more equal than others".

Cue the abuse.....

I think Brickie Chap is well suited to answer your concerns on DW.

 

[Bigbee]

I think Brickie Chap is well suited to answer your concerns on DW.

what a suprise ,mates . eh ? Thats the whole ****ing problem with the way this club is run ! JM asks for money and no ****a has ponyed up what they should of done to be in the infuencial ( sp ? ) positions they find them selves in .

Mates club run by close mates,fans club my ****ing mates arse

and that isnt a chat up line Scarrymonga

 

[Brickie Chap]

I think Brickie Chap is well suited to answer your concerns on DW.

On the grounds that it wasnt my decision to make , can I refer you to either BU or BFC for the answer to this


Of course you could always search for the answer to this question/issue, which has been raised at least once before on either the BFC or BU web sites

 

[Brickie Chap]

what a suprise ,mates . eh ? Thats the whole ****ing problem with the way this club is run ! JM asks for money and no ****a has ponyed up what they should of done to be in the infuencial ( sp ? ) positions they find them selves in .

Mates club run by close mates,fans club my ****ing mates arse

and that isnt a chat up line Scarrymonga

Oh dearrofl , do you ever think before you type

 

[Brickie Chap]

Actually after re-reading this thread, I think you'll find that abee has answered all of these issues at least once and if memory serves not so long ago either

 

[Bigbee]

Oh dearrofl , do you ever think before you type

yes BC ,I do think alot before I type rofl

But as were a bit short of dosh,I think the directors loans,paid in full.would of seen us through the close season ? As Smudgers money has been spent elsewhere ? rofl lol

great these smilies ,eh?

 

[Bigbee]

Actually after re-reading this thread, I think you'll find that abee has answered all of these issues at least once and if memory serves not so long ago either

fanstastic ! You archieve like Abee then , then WTF has happened in the mean time to his questions ? Jack sh*te ?

 

[Brickie Chap]

Smilies are wicked, but better on other sites

Well we all know we need every penny but if we are to stay at GP for lets say the next five years, how do we improve the potential revenue stream

I know, lets get someone/a team of people who can make change happen

How much might that be worth to us


Can LR happen without monorail

Can monorail happen without DW

Is this fair

 

[Brickie Chap]

fanstastic ! You archieve like Abee then , then WTF has happened in the mean time to his questions ? Jack sh*te ?

No I dont but can recall abee answering these questions before. In my opinion abee's version of events is always a must read, as he does have his finger on the pluse, although I dont always agree with his end conclusions

 

[Bigbee]

I would like to talk to you face to face, BC .



me bed now .nite

 

[abee]

Can LR happen without monorail

Can monorail happen without DW

On October 27 2003 Bill Benn, David Heath and myself met with John Mac, Stephen Callen and Doug White. Bill and I were exploring ways in which we could put monies into BFC. Right at the start of the meeting I asked Doug White if he had put monies into the club by way of loans and he said no he had not but he was ready to "........when the time was right".

I then asked who decided when the time was right, the BFC board of directors, the BFC Exec Comm or Doug White personally and frankly I did not receive a proper answer to what I considered a reasonable question. (I add at this point that what I consider reasonable questions are generally not viewed as such by others and I am not talking about BFC or GPG particularly here just business life in general. It is a serious failing of mine which I seem unable to remedy in this world so must try harder in the next rofl ).

I also asked why Rogers (then recent) much trumpeted increased loan was not injected through the Bees United Loan Note Scheme and again there was no answer that satisfied me. (Well we all know the answer anyway don't we but I wanted to hear them say it?? Rogers wants his monies back at some time and that would never happen with a Bees United Loan Note...........)

Back to Doug White and I read a few months ago that the feasibility study for the proposed improvements to Griffin Park and costing (if I remember) around £30,000 had been funded privately and as this is a project that Doug White has been charged with I wondered if it was indeed Doug who had provided the funds.

The issue of directors loans is pretty murky and it is frankly a convenient tool to frighten off "undesirables" when necessary but clearly can comfortably be waived when it suits i.e. Ebbs, Tana, Miller...........(in recent years). It should be taken for granted that all directors bring something to the party and certainly we have the anomaly that Stephen Callen is working as full time Finance Director (well that is how he signed himself in a recent programme article) without remuneration and yet Bees United paid £50,000 to get Stephen onto the board. Doug White clearly is vital for the Lionel Road and Griffin Park projects and yet assuming that Bees United supported his appointment BU did not provide any funds for Doug's directors loans. In other words the rules do not apply when the directors decide that er........the rules do not apply.

Finally the highlighted Brickie Chap quote above. I thought that the stadium and monorail projects were no longer inextricably linked and that the monorail link had been emphasised in the past to bring a bit of seasoning to the stadium project and to provide publicity. That was my understanding but then the much trumpeted Ken Livingstone letter of support particularly mentioned that his support for the stadium was subject to the corresponding transport links so I am probably more confused than anyone else and furthermore.............

 

[RodBee]

Going off at a tangent but still relating to Brentford's continuing existance.............

There are lots of veiled references to Paul Smith's money disappearing but I have no clue what it has been spent on.

I accept I am pretty dim but I am sure that I am not alone and that there are many of us who would like to know.

 

[abee]

I accept I am pretty dim.................

rofl rofl rofl

The abee seventh golden rule of business is that when anyone ever says to me :-

1) "Look I know that I am dim but could you explain to me......."

or

2) "In my ignorance could you just go through one more time........"

then I run for cover 'cos the guy asking me this knows the answers already, has the whole thing buttoned down and I am about to be taken to the cleaners.

Just a comment like..............

 

[Ace Face]

BigBEE - If DW develops GP into a stadium which can help support a football club in 2004 or if LR development comes off. I don`t care if he hasn`t paid the £50k at the time now £100k. My understanding is that his contacts and efforts have already saved BFC money on investigating upgrading GP.

I am also led to believe that a Director tag would help DW in his negotiations with third parties.

Sorry Bigbee I don`t see aqny scandal in this corner.

But if you look at the eastern europe trampoline industry it is full of bounced cheques. - private joke.

 

[RodBee]

Quote from abee 'The abee seventh golden rule of business is that when anyone ever says to me :-

1) "Look I know that I am dim but could you explain to me......."

or

2) "In my ignorance could you just go through one more time........"

then I run for cover 'cos the guy asking me this knows the answers already, has the whole thing buttoned down and I am about to be taken to the cleaners.

Just a comment like..............'

That was a serious question abee.

I am really in the dark about where the Smith monies have gone as I thought they would keep us in business until the end of next season.

It now seems from many veiled comments that this is not so and like many others I wonder why.

 

[abee]

Sorry Bigbee I don`t see aqny scandal in this corner.

:sad: :sad: :sad:

So it's back to the BIAS finances then...............

 

[Ace Face]

Bias finances have been outsourced.

 

[abee]

That was a serious question abee.

I am really in the dark about where the Smith monies have gone as I thought they would keep us in business until the end of next season.

It now seems from many veiled comments that this is not so and like many others I wonder why.

Well it was a sort of serious answer RodBee to what is a very pertinent question. It was certainly suggested that the Smith monies would get us through to the end of next season and indeed only a few days ago I asked Mr Lawrence Brimicombe who is close friends with some of the BFC directors if he could ask them to confirm that the continuance of the club was assured through this coming close season and all of next season. In other words through to say31 May 2005 the present expiry date on the Altonwood option.

That did not seem a particularly tricky question to me but I really don't expect either an answer or an announcement. However if there was any question that BFC was likely to be trading insolvently then we would have heard by now.

 

[abee]

Bias finances have been outsourced.

Oxford Concise Dictionary

outsourced

" the removal or transfer of funds to purchase a villa (usually overseas) for the benefit (usually) of the removor and without the knowledge or approval of the removee".

bish (slang)

" a recent addition and can be used in place of outsource (qv).

i.e. The church poor box was bished.

 

[Bee H]

Bias finances have been outsourced.

"finances outsourced" =

Oxford Concise Dictionary - Cayman Islands or Switzerland and wave goodbye to it

Arse Face - his new house in Ashford and new net curtains to keep the missus happy

Would you trust this man ?

 

[King Bee]

"finances outsourced" =

Oxford Concise Dictionary - Cayman Islands or Switzerland and wave goodbye to it

Arse Face - his new house in Ashford and new net curtains to keep the missus happy

Would you trust this man ?

BeeH,

clearly 'something has got a hold of your heart' with that picture of Bish! Are you sure there isn't a bit of 'tainted love' there?

 

[Bee H]

clearly 'something has got a hold of your heart' with that picture of Bish! Are you sure there isn't a bit of 'tainted love' there?

No King Bee, I'm with Greenholme & Co that dear Bosh is the spitting image of Boy George without make up :yes:

 

[Bigbee]

BigBEE - If DW develops GP into a stadium which can help support a football club in 2004 or if LR development comes off. I don`t care if he hasn`t paid the £50k at the time now £100k. My understanding is that his contacts and efforts have already saved BFC money on investigating upgrading GP.

I am also led to believe that a Director tag would help DW in his negotiations with third parties.

Sorry Bigbee I don`t see aqny scandal in this corner.

But if you look at the eastern europe trampoline industry it is full of bounced cheques. - private joke.

who told you what to write for that last statement?,it cant be you, you havent got a sense of humour,just a funny green coat

 

[Ace Face]

Count to 10 and then wait for Russell`s reply.

 

[Bigbee]

BigBEE - If DW develops GP into a stadium which can help support a football club in 2004 or if LR development comes off. I don`t care if he hasn`t paid the £50k at the time now £100k. My understanding is that his contacts and efforts have already saved BFC money on investigating upgrading GP.

I bulit my own house.I didnt get my hands dirty though,plus I didnt have a clue where to start.So I spoke to the council FREE OF CHARGE ,I had millions of buiders around the site to discuss my ideas FREE OF CHARGE,I spoke to an architect, he submitted drawings based on my idea, cost me £3000. Gave the plans out to builders who quoted FREE OF CHARGE ( Can you see a pattern developing here ? ) I awarded the contract to the builder who gave me confidence and had a good track record ,he wasnt the cheapest. Now that builder built my house, he MADE A PROFIT OUT OF ME ,cos thats what builders do,its their living.What he didnt do was not give £100 k that he had promissed me ,nor did he move in with me .

Shall I ask him to run over plans for GP ? FREE OF CHARGE ? Then we can get the money off Doug that we're owed.Have the other all coughed up or are they making money out of the club out of the goodness of thier hearts ?

Bish, can you please let us know who the real finance office is for BIAS ? youve had your joke, its wearing a bit thin now......

 

[Baffled]

Directors' loans

I asked Doug White if he had put monies into the club by way of loans and he said no he had not but he was ready to "........when the time was right".

In view of John McGlashan's comment that the club is up against it cashwise in August, then that time is surely fast looming.

 

[Ace Face]

Bigbee - If you think that BFC inviting DW to join the BFC Board is a big mistake, I simply don`t agree.

What exactly has BFC lost by DW working unpaid as a type of project manager?

What has DW gained from all this?

I only know the bloke to say hello to, but your chasing the wrong target with this quest.

I do find it unbelievable, that people demand he coughs up £100k - what if he says no. Do BFC kick him out and pray the work is done for no fee by speculators. Maybe Matt D could do the architecture work.

 

[Bigbee]

Sorry Bish ,I thought we were a bit skint like, and the £100k might help ? Will any builder do any work at no profit ? Matty D may well do the work , at least he wont charge for it.Did you see the photos of his sand castle ?

 

[Brickie Chap]

I would like to talk to you face to face, BC .



me bed now .nite

Match days suit me

 

[Brickie Chap]

On October 27 2003 Bill Benn, David Heath and myself met with John Mac, Stephen Callen and Doug White. Bill and I were exploring ways in which we could put monies into BFC. Right at the start of the meeting I asked Doug White if he had put monies into the club by way of loans and he said no he had not but he was ready to "........when the time was right".

I then asked who decided when the time was right, the BFC board of directors, the BFC Exec Comm or Doug White personally and frankly I did not receive a proper answer to what I considered a reasonable question. (I add at this point that what I consider reasonable questions are generally not viewed as such by others and I am not talking about BFC or GPG particularly here just business life in general. It is a serious failing of mine which I seem unable to remedy in this world so must try harder in the next rofl ).

I also asked why Rogers (then recent) much trumpeted increased loan was not injected through the Bees United Loan Note Scheme and again there was no answer that satisfied me. (Well we all know the answer anyway don't we but I wanted to hear them say it?? Rogers wants his monies back at some time and that would never happen with a Bees United Loan Note...........)

Whilst I and many others I assume, knew about this meeting, up till now, we have never be told of what happened or was said(I THINK ).

Can you let us into what else was discussed?

 

[Brickie Chap]

Shall I ask him to run over plans for GP ? FREE OF CHARGE ? Then we can get the money off Doug that we're owed.Have the other all coughed up or are they making money out of the club out of the goodness of thier hearts ?

Are you implying that as of this moment in time DW is making or has made money out of BFC? How is this happening? What evidence do you have to back this up?

You might not like it Bb, but the BFC Board invited DW to join them to manage/run/oversee the LR and GP refurbishment project. Although at the time, no one had seriously looked into GP and what we could do with it, and most certainly no one had discovered that we had c.£1.5m of Football Trust money available. For if they had, they certainly kept it quiet.

 

[abee]

Whilst I and many others I assume, knew about this meeting, up till now, we have never be told of what happened or was said(I THINK ).

Can you let us into what else was discussed?

It was six months ago now and has been overtaken by events and the passage of time. Bill Benn and I were exploring ways to provide financial assistance but the directors of BFC never came back to us. Its on the GPG somewhere ................

 

[King Bee]

Although at the time, no one had seriously looked into GP and what we could do with it, and most certainly no one had discovered that we had c.£1.5m of Football Trust money available. For if they had, they certainly kept it quiet.

On the contrary, revitalising GP had been tried once before during the mid-90s. I recall the Chronicle publishing a full middle page spread on the proposed extension of GP that incorporated boxes and took seating capacity up to 15000. Football Trust monies were to be part of this investment.

The only reminder I've been able to dig up is this small little excerpt from the Sunday Times April 7, 1996 titled How to avoid planning blight by Nick Gardner:

" For example, last week Brentford football club had its application for a grandstand extension turned down after fierce opposition from residents who argued it would restrict light to their properties and intrude on their view."

I used Lexis Nexis to dig this article up for those of you that have access to the product.

 

[Brickie Chap]

It was six months ago now and has been overtaken by events and the passage of time. Bill Benn and I were exploring ways to provide financial assistance but the directors of BFC never came back to us. Its on the GPG somewhere ................

So the meeting wasnt confidential?

 

[abee]

So the meeting wasnt confidential?

No. What made you think that it was????

The meeting was well publicised and indeed the offer to meet was actually made on the GPG and John Mac accepted through the GPG.

There were some issues that were brought up and were confidential at the time but they have since been brought into the public arena by either Bees United or the BFC directors.

No confidences were leaked at the time and as I have posted the meeting was nearly seven months ago now.

 

[Brickie Chap]

Fair enough

 

['Ayes B]

I think Doug White was brouight onto the board to move the lionel road/ griffin park development projects forward as he had the expertese.

In my view, giving him a directorship of the club gives him the authority to talk and negotiate on the clubs behalf.

Can you imagine the difficult postion he would be in if in negotiations he would have to describe his role role as being that of an intertested Brentford supporter as opposed to the club director with the responsibility of the new stadium

 

[Beebop]

It's not as if he can sign on behalf of the board so an elaborate title such as Chief Negotiator or even Associate Director would have been as good,as long as he kept everyone informed.

 

[Banana]

I think Doug White was brouight onto the board to move the lionel road/ griffin park development projects forward as he had the expertese.

In my view, giving him a directorship of the club gives him the authority to talk and negotiate on the clubs behalf.

Can you imagine the difficult postion he would be in if in negotiations he would have to describe his role role as being that of an intertested Brentford supporter as opposed to the club director with the responsibility of the new stadium

One doesn't have to be a director of, say, British Airways to have the authority to talk and negotiate on the company's behalf.

 

[abee]

I think Doug White was brouight onto the board to move the lionel road/ griffin park development projects forward as he had the expertese.

In my view, giving him a directorship of the club gives him the authority to talk and negotiate on the clubs behalf.

Can you imagine the difficult postion he would be in if in negotiations he would have to describe his role role as being that of an intertested Brentford supporter as opposed to the club director with the responsibility of the new stadium

In that case I respectfully suggest that he should be an Executive Director. The role that you describe is an unusual one for a non-Executive whose functions are usually to advise the Executives on strategy and implementation and then maintain a watching brief.

If your premise is correct regarding the reasons for "giving" him a directorship is he working under and reporting to an Executive Director or does he have independent authority to "talk and negotiate on the club's behalf" as your post suggests.

I ask as you seem to have some knowledge of Doug White's appointment to the board and the reasoning behind it.

 

['Ayes B]

I ask as you seem to have some knowledge of Doug White's appointment to the board and the reasoning behind it.

No, just 'Ayes B logic

 

['Ayes B]

One doesn't have to be a director of, say, British Airways to have the authority to talk and negotiate on the company's behalf.

in my expierence, when it comes to business, people talk in peer levels, ie.e directors talk to directors, heads of departments talk to heads of departments and juniors talk to juniors.

 

[Banana]

in my expierence, when it comes to business, people talk in peer levels, ie.e directors talk to directors, heads of departments talk to heads of departments and juniors talk to juniors.

I've just appointed myself Chairman and CEO of Banana's Very Tiny Industries Ltd. (turnover zero, assets £1), I'm on the phone to Bill Gates now.

 

[abee]

in my expierence, when it comes to business, people talk in peer levels, ie.e directors talk to directors, heads of departments talk to heads of departments and juniors talk to juniors.

Not in any bloody company that I run they don't. They talk to the person who can solve their problem............

However this seems to be a heavy hint that it was Wally Downes who negotiated the Martin Allen deal and furthermore.............