England's Winter Tours

[timmy_boy5]

Now that the summer tests are gone who should be in the tours overseas
I hear caddick may be back for the Windies so at least the team will be able to get sky TV

 

[Edmundo]

I think Bicknell's efforts in this Test demand his selection for the winter.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

I would be surpriserd if they took Bicknell, I don't think he would get in a Test team when all our fast bowlers are fit, and you can't take him for the experience.

I think the batsmen will pick themselves, the 5 from The Oval plus Hussain. I think they should take a 2nd all-rounder if Flintoff gets injured, Collingwood or Rikki Clarke.

We'll take 2 or 3 spinners, Giles, Batty and AN Other.
Read and Foster as wicket keepers.

Bowlers; Anderson, Johnson, Kirtley, Harmison.

This is who I would take to Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, the WIndies tour is a different issue, with Simon Jones and Caddick possibly coming into the picture.

My 17 would be these:
Vaughan
Trescothick
Butcher
Thorpe
Hussain
Smith
Flintoff
Collingwood
Read
Foster
Giles
Batty
Tredwell
Anderson
Johnson
Harmison
Kirtley

 

[Perivale Bee]

Seems like a reasonable 17 to me. Bicknell did a great job at The Oval, but I think would be a waste in Bangladesh & Sri Lanka as he relies on getting the ball to swing - and it won't out there. The Oval though, would suggest that he should have played more for England at home, than he has done.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

Seems like a reasonable 17 to me. Bicknell did a great job at The Oval, but I think would be a waste in Bangladesh & Sri Lanka as he relies on getting the ball to swing - and it won't out there. The Oval though, would suggest that he should have played more for England at home, than he has done.

That was my thinking, and also why I left out Hoggard.

I think Bicknell could warrant a place for the home tests next summer if he continues to bowl like he has recently.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

I think we'll also take 17 for the ODI's. This is a bit easier.

I would go with these:
Vaughan
Trescothick
Solanki
Clarke
Collingwood
Flintoff
Giles
Read
Anderson
Gough
Johnson
Blackwell
Kirtley
Kabir Ali
McGrath
Gareth Batty
Jonathan Batty

 

[Perivale Bee]

Again, looks pretty sound - although maybe a question mark over Blackwell. Seen him a couple of times on the NCL and he's not really stood out (apart from being the most portly!).

 

[West Ealing Bee]

Again, looks pretty sound - although maybe a question mark over Blackwell. Seen him a couple of times on the NCL and he's not really stood out (apart from being the most portly!).

I think he has a lot of natural ability and could be useful for England coming in at 6 or 7. I think he was a bit harshly disgarded by England.

I would take him, tell him to improve his fitness and see if he knuckles down, if not then Ian

 

[Simon T]

Personally I'd lose one of the bowlers and take an extra batsman from your squad. My guess is we'll play 6 specialist batsmen, Flintoff, 1 keeper and 3 specialist bowlers in Sri Lanka so taking 7 specialist batsmen (I think Collingwood has shown he is worth a place for his batting last winter, no need to be an all rounder) & 7 specialist bowlers leaves the squad looking rather imbalanced, especially with someone as notoriously unreliable as Thorpe among the batsmen. Maybe Mr Strauss should get the call.

 

[The H]

can only see 2 pace bowlers playing in Tests (plus Flintoff)

 

[Jimbee]

On what I've seen and heard this Summer, I think Geraint Jones is likely to be picked as a wicket-keeper batsman ahead of Foster.

Personally, I'd send Anderson to the academy for the Autumn and bring him back for the Windies.

Also, not sure about Ed Smith, doesn't look the part for me at Test level. I wonder whether Nick Knight may get a look in.

 

[Mr Tree]

what's the story with Simon Jones at the moment? is he back yet?

i would agree with Jimbee, give Anderson a rest, he's worked hard over the summer...

 

[Jimbee]

Jones has just started playing 2nd XI cricket to build his fitness up

 

[Holysmit]

Test Squad For Bangladesh Will Be I Reckon (subject to fitness)

Vaughan
Tresco
Butcher
Thorpe
Hussain
Smith
Read
Jones
Flintoff
Clarke
Giles
Batty
Anderson (he'll be rested for the first test tho)
Harminson
Kirtley
Ali
Hoggard

I have left Bicknell out because I feel against Bangladesh they are more interested in giving younger players a chance so they will take Ali instead although I expect Bicknell to go to Sri Lanka and the West Indies. I won't bother naming a squad for those two tours yet because I think that will depend on fitness, form etc.

As for the one day squad I think it will be preety much the same as the one from this summer only with Collingwood added to the squad.

However a point of note re Jon Batty and one day cricket. His one day batting is woeful I believe hes only ever got one fifty in one day cricket.

 

[The H]

but it's Gareth Batty in your Test squad, correct!

 

[SC]

Geraint Jones will be the second wicket-keeper on the tours ahead and I expect it to be a close call between him and Reed, Reed will probably edge it at first due to his previous Intl experience but if the batting's a bit shaky and Reed doesn't deliver with the bat, Jones will be in.

The selection of bowlers could be a nightmare. I think they are unlikely to take more than 2 spinners cos I reckon they're already struggling as it is with whom to pick. Giles and Batty it is - who else is there ? Kent have a couple of young spinners (particularly Tredwell) and with Murali there, they may well develop nicely but they are not ready yet.

Pace bowlers is a nightmare. You could pick a fairly decent selection, the trouble is they're all injured or on the way back from injury. It'll be a big risk if they select more than 1 or the casualty crew. Bicknell, I don't personally rate - he did OK in the last test but had conditions to favour - he won't get much help in other parts of the world. Nevertheless I'd probably take him to keep a bit of control. Anderson and Harmison are still learning the game and can be pretty expensive when they're slightly off. Saggers might be in the running - quite often end of season form can just nick you a place in a touring party.

Batsmen have pretty much chosen themselves. Ed Smith, after a fine first knock, has been a bit shaky but if they can work on his off-side batting, he'll do OK.

OK, so my 16 for Bangladesh / Sri Lanka

Vaughan
Trescothick
Butcher
Thorpe
Hussain
Smith
Flintoff
McGrath
Read
Jones, G
Giles
Batty
Anderson
Hoggard
Harmison
Bicknell

Clarkes dropped from my original 17 as it seems we'll only be taking 16 according to sky

 

[timmy_boy5]

My Motley Crew would be:
Vaughan
Trescothick
Butcher
Thorpe
Hussain
Flintoff
Jones, G
Giles
Batty
Anderson
Harmison
Smith
Strauss
Collingwood
Read
Kirtley
Hoggard

For the Windies i would replace Batty with Caddick, Giles or maybe Anderson for Jones, injuriy depedent

 

[West Ealing Bee]

If we're only going to take 16 I think we'll only take 2 spinners, Tredwell would be the man left out of my 17.

With regard to Foster, don't you think it would be strange and unfair if they just dropped him without any warning. The took him to Australia ahead of many of teh others mentioned.

I think Read will be first choice but I also think Foster will go.

It also looks like Collingwood may go as just a batsman, which might leave space for another bowler, Hoggard.

 

[The H]

squad's announced today isn't it.

I'd imagine it would be:

Vaughan (c)
Trescothick (vc)
Butcher
Hussain
Thorpe
Collingwood
Flintoff
Read (w)
G Jones (w)
Giles
Batty
Croft
Anderson
Harmison
Kirtley
Hoggard

Kabir Ali, Bicknell and Johnson could all go to Bangladesh with Anderson and Harmison rested until Sri Lanka, but that would be unfair i suppose.

And the spin dept is obviously lacking. Like to see Jason Brown mentioned in despatches at least.

Andy Strauss as back-up batsman. They don't really need more than they have now.

Oh and James Foster is sooooo unlucky. Like him to go, but if Jones is a batsman/wk then he is a better bet.

 

[mattbee]

I think Jason Brown has got to be considered because i imagine the wickets will turn in Sri Lanka and Bangledesh and he has been the best english spinner this year in the county game.

 

[The H]

on a completely different note.

Mushtaq Ahmed's got 99 wickets in 14 games this season

next is Kabir Ali with 65

 

[Jimbee]

I think the problem with Foster is that he was in pole position to replace Stewie 12 months ago and was therefore taken to Oz but since then has not particularly impressed. Jones has appeared on the scene and had a much better Summer than Foster. One of the reasons that Stewie lasted so long is because there was no-one threatening his place but now he's gone, I reckon there will be a lot more competition for that position which will be as a No.7 not No.6 of course.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

I think the problem with Foster is that he was in pole position to replace Stewie 12 months ago and was therefore taken to Oz but since then has not particularly impressed. Jones has appeared on the scene and had a much better Summer than Foster. One of the reasons that Stewie lasted so long is because there was no-one threatening his place but now he's gone, I reckon there will be a lot more competition for that position which will be as a No.7 not No.6 of course.

I would have thought batting at 7 rather than 6 would put Foster in a better position.

He is a good keeper but not as a good a batsman, if the batting responsibility is less surely it would be better to go with the better keeper.

Having said that any 2 from those 3 would be right IMHO.

 

[The H]

IMHO David Nash is a superb stumper and decent with the bat. But if he was going anywhere, would have been involved 2-3 years ago..

 

[SC]

The thing is that nowadays Test cricket is not about 6 men who can bat, a wicketkeeper and 4 bowlers, one of whom may bat and three are rabbits. Cricket, in particular at the top level has evolved to such an extent that basically all 11 (or at least 10) should be able to bat a bit. You look at the Aussies and South Africans and they've got players going in at 10 and 11 with first class 100's to their name. Now, Hoggard, Harmison and Anderson in particular are a long way from that which puts a little added responsibility on the #7 wktkeeper and #8. For that reason alone I'd like to see Jones start as keeper although it will be Read, and also that's why I reckon Foster's never going to make it.

 

[The H]

wk averages:

Jones 49.65 - 100s: 2 - HS 108*
Nash 31.90 - 100s: 6 - HS 114
Read 27.32 - 100s: 2 - HS 160
Foster 26.16 - 100s: 1 - HS 103
Wallace 23.36 - 100s: 2 - HS 117


so no difference between Read and Foster, except that Read did pretty well in the ODIs.

 

[SC]

and those averages in my mind show why Jones should be #1 keeper now. The 1 thing in Read's favour is that he is currently the odi keeper and will probably be promoted to test keeper purely on that basis. I would be more than happy if they said the two keepers chosen are Jones and Nash but I just can't see it happening.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

Squads just announced.
Test:
Vaughan
Tescothick
Butcher
Hussain
Thorpe
Flintoff
Collingwood
Clarke
Batty
Giles
Harmison
Anderson
Hoggard
Geraint Jones
Read

Only 15 there.

No Ed Smith and only 3 seam bowlers, which is a bit of a surprise. Kirtley must be a bit disappointed.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

One day Squad:

Vaughan
Trescothick
Solanki
Clarke
Flintoff
McGrath
Batty
Giles
Anderson
Blackwell
Strauss
Johnson
Kirtley
Read
Collingwood

15 there too, only 1 wicket keeper, with Trescothick as the back up.

I thought Blackwell might get in

 

[SC]

No real surprise additions but why only 15 selected - cash running short at the TCCB

mind you, six players in 1 day squad not in test squad who I guess can be used as back-up

 

[West Ealing Bee]

No real surprise additions but why only 15 selected - cash running short at the TCCB

We aren't playing that many games so I guess we don't need the back up for the non Test Matches.

I also guess they will call back-up fairly smartly if there are injuries.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

I have to say I'm slightly surprised at these squads.

We seem to be short of bowling for the Test squad, where we need to bowl teams out. We also appear to lack specialist batsmen in the One Day team, but we have always done that.

Leaving Kirtley and Johnson out of the Test Squad could be a mistake IMHO, both have looked good for England and can contain, which is what lets Anderson and Harmison down.

I also can't think leaving Gough out of the One Day team is a good idea, we have a very inexperienced attack.

 

[The H]

If they are only going to take 2 spinners, then you'd think that an extra seamer is required.

However, i expect Flintoff/Clarke/Collingwood to provide adequate 5th bowler material for Test/tour matches.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

If they are only going to take 2 spinners, then you'd think that an extra seamer is required.

However, i expect Flintoff/Clarke/Collingwood to provide adequate 5th bowler material for Test/tour matches.

Flintoff will have to do a lot of bowling if we struggle to dismiss Sri Lanka.

If any of the other batsmen are left out/injured Clarke or Collingwood will play to add to the bowling. Vaughan should also do some bowling over there.

 

[The H]

Straussy

 

[Mr Tree]

i only see one spinner there, Gareth Batty....

oh wait, you mean Ashley Giles spins it



this may seem a silly question, but where's Hoggard been all summer?? injured??

 

[The H]

this may seem a silly question, but where's Hoggard been all summer?? injured??

yes

 

[Mr Tree]

righty-o (i've been trying to keep up but i've only been back in the country for 6 weeks!!)

i'm not sure about the bowling attack, and would rather have seen jonno or kirtley there, either as an extra player in a squad of 16 or replacing anderson...

 

[Simon T]

Very brave only taking 15 players if Thorpe is one of them - if he throws one of his usual touring hissy fits we'd only have 14 players to pick from which is too few even if they don't have too many non test games.

 

[Perivale Bee]

It says on the Sky Sports web site that David Graveney is "leaving the door open" for an additional spinner, if they think it's necessary once they get over there.

I still wouldn't have taken Blackwell for the one dayers though!

 

[Mr Tree]

i may be missing something (again), but what's the problem with Thorpe? he dropped out of one tour, last year, because the silly cow he was married to ran off with his kids - fair enough, i'd say. i wasn't particularly aware he had a "history"??

 

[Perivale Bee]

His problems (I'm 99% sure) started on a previous tour to NZ back in 1997 - when he had a fling. Since then, he's had phases where he's been "unfocussed" because of the pending / eventual marriage break up, which have caused him to miss tours and lose his form.

Back to his best form now though, judging by The Oval.

 

[Mr Tree]

but a focused Graham Thorpe gives us one of the world's best batsmen - it would be criminal to NOT pick him

cheers Perivale, was just wondering why Simon T was so anti-Thorpey...

 

[Brain-dead Bee]

In such a small squad for the tests, I think we may have gone overboard on the all-rounders: 3 seam bowling all-rounders (Flintoff, Collingwood and Clarke) and Batty as 2nd spinner must be there because he can also bat - for off-spin alone, it would have to be Jason Brown.

We seem to be relying on having no batsmen getting injured or out of form - or it could be Flintoff at 5, Collingwood 6, Reid 7, Batty 8, Giles 9 and 2 seamers - that doesn't seem deep enough batting to me!

 

[The H]

Very brave only taking 15 players if Thorpe is one of them - if he throws one of his usual touring hissy fits we'd only have 14 players to pick from which is too few even if they don't have too many non test games.

luckily it doesn't take 6 weeks to sail out a replacement these days

 

[West Ealing Bee]

We seem to be relying on having no batsmen getting injured or out of form - or it could be Flintoff at 5, Collingwood 6, Reid 7, Batty 8, Giles 9 and 2 seamers - that doesn't seem deep enough batting to me!

That would be my worry, except that I think Collingwood might well be good enough to bat at 5 in a Test team.

As The H points out, getting someone to Bangladesh won't be as difficult as it used to be.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

but a focused Graham Thorpe gives us one of the world's best batsmen - it would be criminal to NOT pick him

Exactly, the top 6 that England will field for the 1st Test against Bangladesh is very exciting, and could challenge Australia and India as the best line-up in World Cricket.

Vaughan
Trescothick
Butcher
Hussain
Thorpe
Flintoff

Experience, lots of test runs, the ability to play long innings as well as attacking ones. If the bowling comes right we're laughing.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

It says on the Sky Sports web site that David Graveney is "leaving the door open" for an additional spinner, if they think it's necessary once they get over there.

I still wouldn't have taken Blackwell for the one dayers though!

The way Blackwell is batting at the moment he might make that extra spot.

231 not out, from 151 balls.

 

[The H]

247 not out from 156 balls out of 409 all out (65ovs) run rate of 6.31!!!

 

[Mr Tree]

Experience, lots of test runs, the ability to play long innings as well as attacking ones. If the bowling comes right we're laughing.

I think the bowling has bags of potential - we've been down to about or 10th choice at times against SA and still got a draw. As well as Anderson, Harmison, Hoggard, there's Caddick, Jones, Kirtley, Jonno, Bicknell, Ali - the future is bright. I'm looking forward to being an English cricket fan for the next few years