experienced striker needed?

[masterblaster]

good news the young lad signing from harlow,but still think we need experienced target man,they are there eg.mike sheron to blackpool,any other ideas anyone or rumors???

 

[Bush Tuckerman]

Absolutely and completely agree!

Need some experience big time...some one to win the ball in the air and knock it to our impressive midget strikeforce!

Am really struggling to come up with available names right now but Akinbiyi is available and could probably do that job no probs and score a hatful to boot!

 

[Jimbee]

Absolutely and completely agree!

Need some experience big time...some one to win the ball in the air and knock it to our impressive midget strikeforce!

Am really struggling to come up with available names right now but Akinbiyi is available and could probably do that job no probs and score a hatful to boot!

 

[D_Block]

Guaranteed that this new signing will sit in the reserves for a year
and then be released after wasting our money on his wages.

This guy is not the answer. Wally look for experience !!

 

[Scratchy]

Am really struggling to come up with available names right now but Akinbiyi is available and could probably do that job no probs and score a hatful to boot!

I suggest you step back and take another look at what you've written Bush Tuckerman.

Next thing you'll be suggesting we get Robert Taylor back.

 

[Booker Bee]

Don't think Paolo Di Canio has got a new club yet!

We might be able to get him and I'm sure he'll bag a few in this division!

Come on Wally what are you doing? There are plenty of strikers out there!

Realism please people

 

[Bush Tuckerman]

I suggest you step back and take another look at what you've written Bush Tuckerman.

Next thing you'll be suggesting we get Robert Taylor back.

hmmm...when I see that other clubs such as Wrexham have signed Chris Armstrong & Chris Lewellyn, Swindon signed Tommy Moooney, Gretna signed Deano.....all players that have been mentioned on the board as players both too expensive and unwilling to play at this level.....then you have to wonder!

as much as Akinbiyi was a rash throw away...we do need an experienced striker...I don't know how anyone can argue with that?

And with the promising young lads that are coming through it would be helpful if it was in the form of a target man.....unfortunately at this stage most of the decent experienced strikers of this ilk are being signed up by OUR rivals!!:sad: :sad:

Unless of course you are suggesting he isn't good enough for this level, in which case you may be correct, however I think he would be ideal for what we need!

In relation to Di Canio.....Akinbiyi is not even in the same class and anyone suggesting so is clearly insane!!rofl

 

[West Ealing Bee]

hmmm...when I see that other clubs such as Wrexham have signed Chris Armstrong & Chris Lewellyn, Swindon signed Tommy Moooney, Gretna signed Deano.....all players that have been mentioned on the board as players both too expensive and unwilling to play at this level.....then you have to wonder!

Holdsworth is a long way past his best and has probably found his level.

As for the others I really don't think you grasp the situation BT. We have the lowest wage bill in the country. We cannot afford anyone. We can't really afford the players we've got but we know that we need a team to actually play some games.

I don't know how much the guys at Wrexham and Swindon are on but I am sure they have more disposable income than us. Anyone with more than one option will not be coming to Brentford.

 

[chippendale]

How many players come the start of the season will only have one option THE DOLE. Thier must some experienced players who would prefer approx 500 pounds rather than the dole, especially if they live in the South-East.

Our location, West London, is always going to be a problem as the price of housing is so high.

 

[JBN]

We do have Mark Peters, he could have been experienced if Wally had given him a break last season. He had to wait until Mac had gone before he got on the pitch.

From January of last year, he could have started a few games, but Wally left until the last few games. Even now, he can only get 20 mins in a friendly.

 

[Bush Tuckerman]

Holdsworth is a long way past his best and has probably found his level.

As for the others I really don't think you grasp the situation BT. We have the lowest wage bill in the country. We cannot afford anyone. We can't really afford the players we've got but we know that we need a team to actually play some games.

I don't know how much the guys at Wrexham and Swindon are on but I am sure they have more disposable income than us. Anyone with more than one option will not be coming to Brentford.

I fear that the attitude that we are adopting and are accepting is one that will slowly kill our club that's all....we will struggle this year without one or two experienced players!

You also forget that we are by no means the worst off financially in the nationwide....in fact I think if statistics were provided you would be quite surprised at how many clubs were in a worse position!

We have also now got all our most expensive players off the books...so we are in a good position to make some astute signings.

One experienced striker and one experienced midfielder is about all we need....be it on loan with the lending club paying the majority of the wages or whatever....but we must show some ambition to fill these roles as they could be the difference between the playoffs or relegation I feel!

So far we are showing no signs of solving these problem areas and us the fans are sitting back and accepting that, with the promise of a new stadium...

problem is that we are all going to have to work hard and campaign for that and it's going to be a long hard struggle.....and I fear that taking the approach that we are we may not have a team to fill it at this rate!

 

[Bush Tuckerman]

How many players come the start of the season will only have one option THE DOLE. Thier must some experienced players who would prefer approx 500 pounds rather than the dole, especially if they live in the South-East.

Our location, West London, is always going to be a problem as the price of housing is so high.

Completely agree here!

and the players available are starting to wise up to this in my opinion...

we can get experienced players in!

 

[Edmundo]

I fear that the attitude that we are adopting and are accepting is one that will slowly kill our club that's all....we will struggle this year without one or two experienced players!

You also forget that we are by no means the worst off financially in the nationwide....in fact I think if statistics were provided you would be quite surprised at how many clubs were in a worse position!

BT - it could be said that your approach will kill our club quickly. Whatever the state of other clubs, we must live within our means, or it really will be 'goodbye Brentford.' Even with our current miserly wage bill, we will struggle to meet interest payments on the overdraft in the coming year. If we blow the budget, we are risking administration and the forced sale of Griffin Park. With nowhere else to play, this would be curtains.

I'm sure Wally knows that a couple of experienced players who will play for next to nothing would help us on the pitch. But whether players who are 35+ fall into that category, I'm not sure.

 

[Simon C]

The state of alot of other clubs financial situations does not seem to have cut their reckless spending, something we are thankfully not doing. Todays Chronicle reveals that Southend offered Jamie Fullarton double what we did and that Leyton Orient were prepared to offer £1500 a week for him!! This kind of insanity has been stopped at Brentford and we are a much better club for going down this road now rather than a few years down the line.

 

[Bush Tuckerman]

BT - it could be said that your approach will kill our club quickly. Whatever the state of other clubs, we must live within our means, or it really will be 'goodbye Brentford.' Even with our current miserly wage bill, we will struggle to meet interest payments on the overdraft in the coming year. If we blow the budget, we are risking administration and the forced sale of Griffin Park. With nowhere else to play, this would be curtains.

I'm sure Wally knows that a couple of experienced players who will play for next to nothing would help us on the pitch. But whether players who are 35+ fall into that category, I'm not sure.

Edmundo...I dont think you understand my point at all - I have never once said we should be free spending like other clubs....I am glad we are not!

However we do not seem to be very creative in finding alternatives...such as players on loan with the majority of their wages being paid by the other club...such as Portsmouth did with Festa last season!

Simply because players are ASSUMED to have wages above our station does not actually mean that they will not sign for us...this is a very pessimistic view and it is this which I feel is going to kill our club!

We are systematically selling ourselves short by not even looking at such players...

further does it make more sense to have four 18 year old strikers none of whom have scored at competitive level at £500 per week (total £2k per week)..or one more experienced striker who will almost certainly score goals at £1.5k per week?

 

[JBN]

Bush Tuckerman has not, from what i can see, said anything about breaking the budget.

We seem to have adopted a head in the sand, 'he won't accept £500pw so we won't approach them' attitude.

There are 700 or so players out of work. There will be those that will take the attitude that £500 per week is better than the dole. There are also those at other clubs that will be looking to be loaned out. They may be on £10k per week, if the loaning club knows we can only stump up £500 per week, but need to loan them out to get them in the shop window, then a deal can be struck.

There are those that are to quick to say 'can't afford him' without actually asking the bloke.

If they turn their nose up at it, and end up on the dole or festering in the reserves, thats their problem.

We have a budget to keep to and I hope we keep to it, but don't rule out a player just because you think he won't accept the wage, there may come a point when the player has too.

 

[Simon T]

further does it make more sense to have four 18 year old strikers none of whom have scored at competitive level at £500 per week (total £2k per week)..or one more experienced striker who will almost certainly score goals at £1.5k per week?

If you can guarantee that the £1.5k per week striker will neither be suspended or injured and won't lose form then it might be considered a sensible option, but nobody can do that. Until then I think we are better off having 4 players available for Wally to choose from.

 

[Bush Tuckerman]

Bush Tuckerman has not, from what i can see, said anything about breaking the budget.

We seem to have adopted a head in the sand, 'he won't accept £500pw so we won't approach them' attitude.

There are 700 or so players out of work. There will be those that will take the attitude that £500 per week is better than the dole. There are also those at other clubs that will be looking to be loaned out. They may be on £10k per week, if the loaning club knows we can only stump up £500 per week, but need to loan them out to get them in the shop window, then a deal can be struck.

There are those that are to quick to say 'can't afford him' without actually asking the bloke.

If they turn their nose up at it, and end up on the dole or festering in the reserves, thats their problem.

We have a budget to keep to and I hope we keep to it, but don't rule out a player just because you think he won't accept the wage, there may come a point when the player has too.

Absolutley I would hate to think that we would struggle all season in fornt of goal again simply becasue we did not approach a striker and see what his demands were!

It seems to be cutting your nose off to spite your face, in that I have no doubts that our young team will create chances however if we don't put them away like last season we are in trouble!

How about signing someone on £500 per week but giving them a good goal bonus and excellent promotion bonus structure!

If we are up the top towards the end of the season the additional crowds and ensuing promotion would more than pay for this!

 

[JBN]

Far too radical

 

[Bush Tuckerman]

If you can guarantee that the £1.5k per week striker will neither be suspended or injured and won't lose form then it might be considered a sensible option, but nobody can do that. Until then I think we are better off having 4 players available for Wally to choose from.

If you want guarantees from football then you shouldn't be a supporter..an integral part of the whole ethic of the game is to take risks!

Who's to say all the 18 year olds (being as young as they are) won't experiment with drink and drugs together and therefore render all 4 useless?

A bit extreme but there you go!!

The crux of the point however is that there has to be a balance!

 

[Simon T]

We're not in a position to take risks with the finances of the club (unless you are in a position to up your standing order to BU by a couple of grand a week). Gambling away the future of the club on one player isn't a sensible move - we could end up with the next Paul Davis (waster) or Scot Marshall (injured) or Ian Benjamin (not very good) rather than a Neil Smillie type player who was the last older player to really make a big impact at the club. If we end up with a dud then you don't need to worry about playing 18 year olds on £500 a week, we'll be playing 1st or second year YTS boys that are a lot less able to cope than the 18 year olds.

Playing the four 18 year olds does have a slight risk of relegation this season. Your strategy could see us playing in the Combined Counties league against AFC Wimbledon god knows where next year after we have gone bankrupt, assuming BU could get some new finance through after p1$$!ng away all the collections, loan notes & standing orders. It's not a risk I'd like to see BU take.

A further thought is that if you break the wage structure, you can end up causing divisions in the ranks, set a bad precedent when it comes to future negotiations and make the exec committee look unprofessional in the eyes of the clubs bankers (who are our main creditor). Not a good idea.

 

[Edmundo]

by not even looking at such players...

You must know more than me, then. I don't know what Wally is or isn't doing to try to bring more experience in. On the other hand, I'd be surprised if he walks into Griffin Park each day and hands Mark Chapman a list of players that he's looking at.

I'm simply not going to start panicking on July 24th!

 

[JBN]

Virtually every player suggested on the GPG has been met with a chorus of 'we can't afford him', 'he won't take £500pw etc etc. There may come a point when they have too.

I agree July 24th is to early to panic. Wally is still working on bringing in another player or two by the sound of things.

Simon T, in the words of whinging Winner, calm down dear, its only a suggetion.

Your route of completly dismissing any experienced signing by using a bit of creative thought, could be just as damaging as not signing anyone, playing with a group of 16-18 year olds and still ending up in the combined counties league.

Success on the pitch will bring financial success. It is a gamble, whichever way you look at.

 

[Simon T]

I'm not ruling out signing an experienced player, merely suggesting that we shouldn't break the bank to do so. If Wally can find some experienced players that are within our budget I'll be delighted to see them signing for the Bees, if he can't then we aren't in any position to show the same financial irresponsibility that Noades did.

 

[Bush Tuckerman]

We're not in a position to take risks with the finances of the club (unless you are in a position to up your standing order to BU by a couple of grand a week). Gambling away the future of the club on one player isn't a sensible move - we could end up with the next Paul Davis (waster) or Scot Marshall (injured) or Ian Benjamin (not very good) rather than a Neil Smillie type player who was the last older player to really make a big impact at the club. If we end up with a dud then you don't need to worry about playing 18 year olds on £500 a week, we'll be playing 1st or second year YTS boys that are a lot less able to cope than the 18 year olds.

Playing the four 18 year olds does have a slight risk of relegation this season. Your strategy could see us playing in the Combined Counties league against AFC Wimbledon god knows where next year after we have gone bankrupt, assuming BU could get some new finance through after p1$$!ng away all the collections, loan notes & standing orders. It's not a risk I'd like to see BU take.

A further thought is that if you break the wage structure, you can end up causing divisions in the ranks, set a bad precedent when it comes to future negotiations and make the exec committee look unprofessional in the eyes of the clubs bankers (who are our main creditor). Not a good idea.

Yes but in my view - equally we don't have money to through at 3 inadequate players that are just going to sit on the bench all season!

And in terms of putting us into an AFC Wimbledon situation..that is a bit over the top...when I am suggesting initially to approach players to play within our structure and then highlighting that it may be worth going a little over our budget per individual player to recruit the experienced striker that we require!

Just as a note do you actually believe that all 19 of our players are on exactly the same weekly wage?

Surely by having a 11.5k a week team wage bill with a striker scoring vital goals week in week out is much more valuable than a team with a 11k a week wage bill which is eeking out 0-0 draws!

As at the very least their will be 500+ on the crowd if we are scoring goals each week, and at maximum it is also very possible that we could go up!

My message is simple...we do have a very good team of youngsters...but we do need experience!

I would urge caution in recruiting that experience however to discount a solution based solely on the immediate impact of more than 500 per week on the wage bill is a little foolish!

I'm not talking about offering huge contracts just sensible educated ones based on the benefit to the team in terms of results and the club in terms of increased gate receipts!

 

[Bush Tuckerman]

A further thought is that if you break the wage structure, you can end up causing divisions in the ranks, set a bad precedent when it comes to future negotiations and make the exec committee look unprofessional in the eyes of the clubs bankers (who are our main creditor). Not a good idea. [/B]

Just as an additional note...I can kind of see where you are coming from on this one...however it is nonsense about the impact on the bankers.

Other buisnesses who find themselves in these situations are not audited and then given the ultimatim to make all employees regardless of role or experience adopt the same wage structure!

As I have said before I am very keen on the fact that we have taken these measures to cut the wage bill and have come out with an team of excellent youth prospects as a result, however we havetaken a very hefty amount off the wage bill now and I feel that we have some breathing space to look at creative ways to lure the right key players (Striker and probably an expereinced centre midfielder to the club)

 

[Edmundo]

BT, you and me both. It's statements like "not even looking at such players" that wind me up, because it assumes that Wally just has his feet up and is not trying to build as strong a squad as possible on a shoestring.

 

[Brickie Chap]

If only the fans gave up some of the cash they poured down their necks down in the West Country we would have been bidding recently for Beckham...

 

[High Street Bee]

Surely there is the possibility of a greater adverse financial impact if the young uns without guidance start losing and the crowds drop

Im certainly not going to pre-judge before a ball is kicked, but last season I started off going in a group of seven and by the end of the season there was only two of us.

Apart from die hards, people wont always pay £15 or whatever on a Saturday afternoon if theres bad football or no hope on offer

Being an accountant myself, Im not averse to the concept of spending money to make money. If a PC system costs you £5k but enables you to make £20k then spend the money you must.

There is no clear cut answer IMHO but I do feel bums on seats is what the club is about. Give fans hope and summat good to watch then your gate goes up - give em drab football like the back end of last season and crowds and atmosphere dwindle.

Ive renewed my season ticket but four mates havent - financial break even is a hard sell to a paying public

 

[Bush Tuckerman]

BT, you and me both. It's statements like "not even looking at such players" that wind me up, because it assumes that Wally just has his feet up and is not trying to build as strong a squad as possible on a shoestring.

Fair enough...I am not looking to attack Wally at all. I don't know whether Wally reads any of these or not, but I do like to make what I think are on the whole valid suggestions and am fed up with them being rubbished by others on the board without consideration as 'too expensive' or 'unwilling to play in this division' - especially as many of the names I have suggested will be playing in this division this season...

...further and whilst I do not know conclusively I would hazard a guess that some of these players are on contract which wouldn't have broken our bank ...if we were creative with goal bonuses, appearance bonuses, and promotion bonuses to such key players!

If a post on this board ultimately leads to us signing a striker on reasonable terms who goes onto bang 20+ goals away from us this season and take us up....then why not explore some of the options rather than put blinkers on...like some on the board.

I am sure that Wally is looking to bring experience in...hence Dirk Lehmann a couple of weeks ago....

 

[GP]

...further and whilst I do not know conclusively I would hazard a guess that some of these players are on contract which wouldn't have broken our bank ...if we were creative with goal bonuses, appearance bonuses, and promotion bonuses to such key players!

I think Bush Tuckerman has hit on a very valid point here. The magic figure of £500.00 a month seems in principle not to be that attractive. However I'm pretty sure most, it not all of the players contracts have additional appearance bonuses, win bonuses etc.
If I was offered a job for £500.00 a week would I currently accept. Answer is no. However if I was offered a contract of £500.00 a week, plus additional payments should I turn up every week and perform well would I accept. Answer is probably yes. I would guess that someone playing once a week in a winning team (wishfull thinking I know) could double his money. We are all in agreement (including Wally) that we need an experienced head. I am sure that with the right bonus incentives we can get the right man.

 

[JBN]

Got to agree with the great Brickie Chap here, if we stopped drinking for a week or two, and gave the cash to BU, we would clear the debt very quickly. :beer:

Drastic times call for drastic measures.

Suggestion for BU fund raising, a sponsered sober?

 

[Mr Tree]

Got to agree with the great Brickie Chap here, if we stopped drinking for a week or two, and gave the cash to BU, we would clear the debt very quickly. :beer:

Drastic times call for drastic measures.

Suggestion for BU fund raising, a sponsered sober?

it'd never work, too many alkies on here

 

[JBN]

Did I realy write that.

I must have been pi55ed when I posted that stupid idea