Foul Throws

[Lionel Bart-At]

Are the foul throw laws applied evenly throughout the sport?

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

@Edmundo : The most obvious reason most throw-ins are foul throws is that they aren’t taken from where the ball went out.

@Lionel Bart-At : Agreed, although in theory, the ref generally stops these at source and asks the taker to move back.

I was thinking more of the two foul throws Jansen was penalised for when he chose not to take the long option. Yes, technically they were foul throws. But the confusion lies in the application (or not) of the law. Most refs do not bother to apply this law unless a throw is outrageously foul. He would usually have got away with both. So why did Tierney blow when most refs wouldn’t have?

What’s more confusing is that, whilst I don’t feel that the throw-in laws are generally enforced in the men’s professional game, they seem to be applied rigorously in women’s and junior football.

Or maybe I’m wrong?

@Cbee : The amount of foul throws in the game has increased as there are a lot where both feet aren’t on the ground, I think JDS did that at one point on Saturday.
It surprises me that the officials miss a lot of these it seems.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

@Edmundo : The most obvious reason most throw-ins are foul throws is that they aren’t taken from where the ball went out.

@Lionel Bart-At : Agreed, although in theory, the ref generally stops these at source and asks the taker to move back.

I was thinking more of the two foul throws Jansen was penalised for when he chose not to take the long option. Yes, technically they were foul throws. But the confusion lies in the application (or not) of the law. Most refs do not bother to apply this law unless a throw is outrageously foul. He would usually have got away with both. So why did Tierney blow when most refs wouldn’t have?

What’s more confusing is that, whilst I don’t feel that the throw-in laws are generally enforced in the men’s professional game, they seem to be applied rigorously in women’s and junior football.

Or maybe I’m wrong?

@Cbee : The amount of foul throws in the game has increased as there are a lot where both feet aren’t on the ground, I think JDS did that at one point on Saturday.
It surprises me that the officials miss a lot of these it seems.

Replying to @Cbee . I have assumed for some time that there is a deliberate turning of a blind eye to all but extreme misdemeanours in this area in recent times. As I say, if this is the case, it is confusing when an individual referee almost randomly decides to apply the law in isolation, and when the laws seem, to me at least, to be rigorously followed in junior and women's football.

 

[Lippy18]

Why was Jensen’s throw foul? Couldn’t see it on TV.

 

[Mike]

@Edmundo : The most obvious reason most throw-ins are foul throws is that they aren’t taken from where the ball went out.

@Lionel Bart-At : Agreed, although in theory, the ref generally stops these at source and asks the taker to move back.

I was thinking more of the two foul throws Jansen was penalised for when he chose not to take the long option. Yes, technically they were foul throws. But the confusion lies in the application (or not) of the law. Most refs do not bother to apply this law unless a throw is outrageously foul. He would usually have got away with both. So why did Tierney blow when most refs wouldn’t have?

What’s more confusing is that, whilst I don’t feel that the throw-in laws are generally enforced in the men’s professional game, they seem to be applied rigorously in women’s and junior football.

Or maybe I’m wrong?

@Cbee : The amount of foul throws in the game has increased as there are a lot where both feet aren’t on the ground, I think JDS did that at one point on Saturday.
It surprises me that the officials miss a lot of these it seems.

Why were both of Jensen throw in’s foul throws ? ( you say obviously, but nor why ? )

 

[Mike]

Also not wishing to be pedantic but at what point is the ball ‘behind the head’ , this seems arbitrary to me. All the ball, behind all the head, the ball past half of the head etc etc

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

Also not wishing to be pedantic but at what point is the ball ‘behind the head’ , this seems arbitrary to me. All the ball, behind all the head, the ball past half of the head etc etc

Especially when the thrower will incline his head to different angles, depending on the type of throw, as well as within the time span of each throw. Jensen finished both foul throws with a bowed head as a consequence of his intention to project the ball downwards.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

Why were both of Jensen throw in’s foul throws ? ( you say obviously, but nor why ? )

That's a very good question. I instinctively felt like they should have been foul throws (even though I was astonished to see "foul throw" awarded). Not sure why, though. Will need to revisit the laws. GPG refs? Probably because they were not "thrown from behind the head"? But, as you hint above, if you examine any throw, would you not see the final point of release being unavoidably forward of the head?

 

[Banana]

Why was Jensen’s throw foul? Couldn’t see it on TV.

Good question

This was the one the ref complained about in the first place, but permitted

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

Is there a video clip?

 

[Lippy18]

Good question

This was the one the ref complained about in the first place, but permitted

View attachment 37976

View attachment 37977

Yeah, what’s he complaining about? Either it’s a foul throw, in which call it, or it’s not so get on with the game.

It does go behind Jensen’s head, although briefly and not fully I would say, but there are worse in almost every other game.

I find Tierney to be a picky ref, to the point where it seems as though he’s favouring one team over the other.

 

[Delbee]

Last season at Spurs Conte was complains that Goodes throws were foul throws as part of his foot was on the pitch, 4th Offical spent time explaining to him as log as some of his foot was touching the line or behind the line it was not a foul throw .

To me today you see a lot of foul throws as one hand is behind the ball rather that at the side, Tippier at Newcastle is a prime suspect when trying to throw long

 

[TW1Bee]

Last season at Spurs Conte was complains that Goodes throws were foul throws as part of his foot was on the pitch, 4th Offical spent time explaining to him as log as some of his foot was touching the line or behind the line it was not a foul throw .

To me today you see a lot of foul throws as one hand is behind the ball rather that at the side, Tippier at Newcastle is a prime suspect when trying to throw long

I remember Roger Cross being pulled up for foul throws by picky refs when lauching his long throws because one hand was slightly behind the ball to help project it further. Other players were too. When I did a refs course years ago i was always told it was the job of the linesman to watch the feet and the ref to watch the actual throw.

 

[Edmundo]

Do the laws say anything about where the hands need to be placed on the ball? I thought the requirement is that both hands are used (I don’t think equally is specified) and that the ball must be thrown from behind the head. This latter rule is vague imho. Does it just mean the ball must be behind the head at the start of the throw, or when it’s released? If the latter, then I think it’s impossible to enforce.

 

[Untouchable]

Do the laws say anything about where the hands need to be placed on the ball?

This is Law 15 in full

 

[Brentford77]

@Edmundo : The most obvious reason most throw-ins are foul throws is that they aren’t taken from where the ball went out.

@Lionel Bart-At : Agreed, although in theory, the ref generally stops these at source and asks the taker to move back.

I was thinking more of the two foul throws Jansen was penalised for when he chose not to take the long option. Yes, technically they were foul throws. But the confusion lies in the application (or not) of the law. Most refs do not bother to apply this law unless a throw is outrageously foul. He would usually have got away with both. So why did Tierney blow when most refs wouldn’t have?

What’s more confusing is that, whilst I don’t feel that the throw-in laws are generally enforced in the men’s professional game, they seem to be applied rigorously in women’s and junior football.

Or maybe I’m wrong?

@Cbee : The amount of foul throws in the game has increased as there are a lot where both feet aren’t on the ground, I think JDS did that at one point on Saturday.
It surprises me that the officials miss a lot of these it seems.

We don’t miss them. It’s just that nobody in football wants to see throws reversed for something only the officials have seen such as a foot slightly off the ground. Jensen’s throw was so obviously a foul throw to everyone that it surprised few when it was reversed. If a thrower is consistently having a foot off the ground (and in most games there are only a few players that take the vast majority of throws) a word of warning that to the player that s/he is going to get penalised tends to suffice. I think the prob with Jensen Saturday is that (I think) he was warned after the first one but chose not to heed it

 

[Invipai]

The foul throw which was given looked a foul throw to me, and I thought the same for one he took earlier as well! I think he threw them with a very low trajectory to get more power but I do think they didn't go upwards over the head.

You don't get pulled up on it very often (one of the lax rules) but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be pulled up either. It's probably an area we know we can get away with it a bit so usually go for it.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

We don’t miss them. It’s just that nobody in football wants to see throws reversed for something only the officials have seen such as a foot slightly off the ground. Jensen’s throw was so obviously a foul throw to everyone that it surprised few when it was reversed. If a thrower is consistently having a foot off the ground (and in most games there are only a few players that take the vast majority of throws) a word of warning that to the player that s/he is going to get penalised tends to suffice. I think the prob with Jensen Saturday is that (I think) he was warned after the first one but chose not to heed it

Yes, but going by @Banana 's second still above, foot off the ground wasn't the issue?

 

[Delbee]

FA rule for throw ins

throw-in is awarded to the opponents of the player who last touched the ball when the whole of the ball passes over the touchline, on the ground or in the air.

A goal cannot be scored directly from a throw-in:

• if the ball enters the opponents’ goal – a goal kick is awarded
• if the ball enters the thrower’s goal – a corner kick is awarded

1. Procedure

At the moment of delivering the ball, the thrower must:

• stand facing the field of play
• have part of each foot on the touchline or on the ground outside the touchline
• throw the ball with both hands from behind and over the head from the point where it left the field of play

All opponents must stand at least 2 m (2 yds) from the point on the touchline where the throw-in is to be taken.

The ball is in play when it enters the field of play. If the ball touches the ground before entering, the throw-in is retaken by the same team from the same position. If the throw-in is not taken correctly it is retaken by the opposing team.

If a player, while correctly taking a throw-in, deliberately throws the ball at an opponent in order to play the ball again but not in a careless or a reckless manner or using excessive force, the referee allows play to continue.

The thrower must not touch the ball again until it has touched another player.

2. Offences and sanctions

If, after the ball is in play, the thrower touches the ball again before it has touched another player an indirect free kick is awarded; if the thrower commits a handball offence:

• a direct free kick is awarded
• a penalty kick is awarded if the offence occurred inside the thrower’s penalty area unless the ball was handled by the defending team’s goalkeeper in which case an indirect free kick is awarded

An opponent who unfairly distracts or impedes the thrower (including moving closer than 2 m (2 yds) to the place where the throw-in is to be taken) is cautioned for unsporting behaviour and if the throw-in has been taken an indirect free kick is awarded.

For any other offence the throw-in is taken by a player of the opposing team.

 

[jlove]

... throw the ball with both hands from behind and over the head...

I think this is the one that made both throws foul, even though the first only got a warning.

 

[Alan D]

Slightly off topic, but for some reason really winds me up, is it's not unusual to players taking throw-ins anything up to 10/15 yards further forward than where the ball originall left the field of play. Most referees just ignore it.

 

[jlove]

Slightly off topic, but for some reason really winds me up, is it's not unusual to players taking throw-ins anything up to 10/15 yards further forward than where the ball originall left the field of play. Most referees just ignore it.

Even worse, the referee stands in line with where the ball went out, the player moves in stages up the pitch and the referee just moves with the player.

 

[Vid]

Even worse, the referee stands in line with where the ball went out, the player moves in stages up the pitch and the referee just moves with the player.

Swap the lazy football linesthem (yes I’ve lost the plot) for the rugby ones.

 

[James30]

Why was Jensen’s throw foul? Couldn’t see it on TV.

He threw it down I saw the ref tell him and he done it again lol

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

I think this is the one that made both throws foul, even though the first only got a warning.

I think you’re right. And at least he gave him a warning (I don’t think I noticed that during the game). What irritates me is that you see this offence go unpunished week in, week out. Referees have, by their inaction, been complicit in allowing players to get into bad habits. Then one comes along who randomly decides he’s going to sanction the offence for one week only. Either you all do it or you all don’t do it, then we know where we stand.

 

[Mike]

He threw it down I saw the ref tell him and he done it again lol

I think you are right…….however I have scoured the rules and cannot see anywhere that this action is a foul throw. Please explain

 

[jlove]

I think you are right…….however I have scoured the rules and cannot see anywhere that this action is a foul throw. Please explain

See post #20

 

[Mike]

I think you are right…….however I have scoured the rules and cannot see anywhere that this action is a foul throw. Please explain

See post 20

In post 20 the part of the throw in rule is stated…..
‘ throw the ball from behind and over your head’
I’m sorry but this does not sufficiently define what action must be taken and certainly leads to ambiguity.
It does not say when the ball should be released or at what angle it should be thrown relative to the ground. I honest don’t think Mr Jensen knows either as he looks completely confused by the refs decision.
Surely any rule needs to be ‘water tight’ otherwise it will be misunderstood at best or exploited at worst.
if the throw taker bends his body as he throws the ball, the ball can still be released above his head, but can in fact be directed at the ground !
it’s nonsense I’m afraid and needs to be sorted !
Ah……I feel better for getting that off my chest ?

 

[jlove]

In post 20 the part of the throw in rule is stated…..
‘ throw the ball from behind and over your head’
I’m sorry but this does not sufficiently define what action must be taken and certainly leads to ambiguity.
It does not say when the ball should be released or at what angle it should be thrown relative to the ground. I honest don’t think Mr Jensen knows either as he looks completely confused by the refs decision.
Surely any rule needs to be ‘water tight’ otherwise it will be misunderstood at best or exploited at worst.
if the throw taker bends his body as he throws the ball, the ball can still be released above his head, but can in fact be directed at the ground !
it’s nonsense I’m afraid and needs to be sorted !
Ah……I feel better for getting that off my chest ?

I don't believe 'the ground' has got anything to do with it, the ball did not go behind his head at the start of the throw. That rule has been there for a long time and is clear. I noted this to my son on the first throw, that he got a warning on, and he did it again a few minutes later.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

I don't believe 'the ground' has got anything to do with it, the ball did not go behind his head at the start of the throw. That rule has been there for a long time and is clear. I noted this to my son on the first throw, that he got a warning on, and he did it again a few minutes later.

Maybe so, but when was the last time you saw a top-flight ref pull this up?

 

[jlove]

Maybe so, but when was the last time you saw a top-flight ref pull this up?

I can't recall... but I think the point in this specific case is that Jensen winds up for long throws but not taking the full throwing action and 'dropping' it to a player close by is deceiving and rule-breaking. A pedantic referee noticed it. He just has to move the ball back over his head a fraction and there's no problem.

 

[Mike]

I don't believe 'the ground' has got anything to do with it, the ball did not go behind his head at the start of the throw. That rule has been there for a long time and is clear. I noted this to my son on the first throw, that he got a warning on, and he did it again a few minutes later.

If Banana’s post #9 is correct, the first time the ref warns Jensen about a possible foul throw, the photo attached clearly shows the ball is behind Jensen’s head. See below

 

[Inappropriate Smilies Bee]

If Banana’s post #9 is correct, the first time the ref warns Jensen about a possible foul throw, the photo attached clearly shows the ball is behind Jensen’s head. See below


View attachment 38023


View attachment 38022

But that doesn’t show the point he released the ball. The law says he has to throw it over his head, ie not still have hold of the ball when it’s on front of his head. This is basic stuff isn’t it? Both looked like foul throws to me from 100 yards away and I remember making a comment that he’s the new Fosu at the time, if anyone remembers him and his foul throws on the Covid tv season.

 

[jlove]

If Banana’s post #9 is correct, the first time the ref warns Jensen about a possible foul throw, the photo attached clearly shows the ball is behind Jensen’s head. See below


View attachment 38023


View attachment 38022

I’ve not rewatched anything but it looked a foul throw to me at the time. At school, I was often lectured on my throw-in technique.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

Let's have a concerted fan-watch next game. Cos I still maintain that you will see foul throws a-plenty every game. What you don't normally see is foul throws penalised. Maybe I'm wrong - a bit like refs, I don't look too closely anymore. It's consistency we need, though. We can't afford to give away possession just because officials, who have lulled players into laziness with a decade-long turning of a blind eye, decide that today's the day to crack the whip.

Alternatively - and I know this is obviously the correct course of action - let's just get it right so that it doesn't happen again.

 

[Bangor Bee]

I think it was given as a foul throw simply because it didn't look like the normal throwing action, but in fact any throw delivered "with both hands from behind and over the head" should be permitted according to the rules, even if it looks different and the ball is projected downwards.

 

[Mike]

But that doesn’t show the point he released the ball. The law says he has to throw it over his head, ie not still have hold of the ball when it’s on front of his head. This is basic stuff isn’t it? Both looked like foul throws to me from 100 yards away and I remember making a comment that he’s the new Fosu at the time, if anyone remembers him and his foul throws on the Covid tv season.

Not wishing to be pedantic…..but yes, you guessed it I am going to be. In my previous post I said that if you bent from the waist forward as you released the ball, it would meet the rule as it would still be over your head, but at the same time make an ass of the rule. The rule is not sufficiently clear and I believe you are right. The rule is making a poor attempt to Require that a throw in, should be released whilst over the head and therefore presumably ( because it is not stated anywhere ) the ball should leave the hands on an upward trajectory…..
but this is all conjecture as the rule is not bleeding clear !!! ?

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Jesus you lot really are over analysing this ?? Jensen always has a questionable throw or two in him.

This thread hurts my head

 

[Brentford Bob]

Refs seem happy to have let them go for a couple of seasons, as well as letting keepers kick the ball out of their own hands while several feet outside the area.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

Jesus you lot really are over analysing this ?? Jensen always has a questionable throw or two in him.

This thread hurts my head

Jensen hater! ?

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Jensen hater! ?

Wow wow wow, don't tar me with that tainted brush. ?

 

[Stormy the Spook]

The Law is rubbish and should be changed. I get two hands and both feet on the ground but other than that I don't see what advantage is gained?

 

[W5BeesFan]

Slightly off topic, but for some reason really winds me up, is it's not unusual to players taking throw-ins anything up to 10/15 yards further forward than where the ball originall left the field of play. Most referees just ignore it.

I like when everyone sitting groundside go mental standing up, effing and jeffing when the opposition try to nick a few yards. It's part of football culture.

 

[Inappropriate Smilies Bee]

I like when everyone sitting groundside go mental standing up, effing and jeffing when the opposition try to nick a few yards. It's part of football culture.

The Old Den was good for that in 80s & early 90s. Oppo couldn’t steal an inch.

 

[BS7Bee]

Jesus you lot really are over analysing this ?? Jensen always has a questionable throw or two in him.

This thread hurts my head

Isn't this the GP? Presumably you have quite a lot of threads set to ignore on this forum! ??