GARY HARGRAVES INTERVIEW

[rebus]

Part one now online:
http://www.brentfordfc.co.uk/today/view/breaking_news_detail/0,,10421~218446,00.html

 

[Brickie Chap]

Reasonable interview by the MD. More positive than you might expect and financial comments whilst uncomfortable are true.

Time will tell, although his loyalty to RN is the reason he must follow him out of the door.

A fresh approach will be needed once RN decides to go and any lingering connection to the Great One must go with him.

Up the BEES

 

[Wee Dave]

Originally posted by Mark Chapman:
Part one now online:
http://www.brentfordfc.co.uk/today/view/breaking_news_detail/0,,10421~218446,00.html

Good reading, thanks Mark.

Looks like straight talking from Mr H. He seems keen to inject a dose of reality into proceedings.

 

[Stanley]

Originally posted by Brickie Chap:


Time will tell, although his loyalty to RN is the reason he must follow him out of the door.

Why??????

Some of the successes of this season has been the ticketing policy, changing the home end and so it appears increasing our turnover which must in part be due to better off field commercial activities. All the evidence is that GH is a bit of an unsung hero rather than villian....you'd expect him to be loyal to whoever's in charge, what else can he do?

Frankly this article cheered me up a bit as at least its' looking postively at another season at GP, other posts/comments have been far more negative.

 

[Brickie Chap]

Originally posted by Stanley:
Why??????

Well for one because he is RN's right hand man. That is good enough for me.

Once the Great One leaves, I want every trace of him gone forever. We can argue till the cows come home as to the in's and out's of whats happened but you can't take the fact away that RN's brought him in to run things and when/if BU take over we need to be able to trust who we are dealing with.

FLASHBACK - 'I am funding the club'

Who said that...you guessed it...RN's. Is it ture?

Well lets see....no, I think BFC is in debt to the tune of £7m(including directors loans etc). Who worked with RN on this wonderful plan.....Mr Hargreaves.

I really could go on but some people wont accept my point of view just like I wont accept theirs. All I know is that I do not beleive that if RN and his cronies stay at GP we will have a football club left.

[ 15 May 2002: Message edited by: Brickie Chap ]

 

[feltham]

Interesting interview, did I read the bit correctly that they (the board) are thinking of selling the ground and then staying there whilst using the cash to pay off the ongoing debts?

Isn’t this a bit like mortgaging your house to pay the gas and electric bills

 

[smilely]

Not bad! Pretty on the fence stuff where SC is concerned but expected nothing more really. If our income has effectively doubled in four yrs than has our outgoings? I know there r a few people on large wage pkts and the squad, at times was very big but we have not exactly spent ludricous amounts, Big Mac! Does any1 know the money spent on players and re-couped (Ha Ha) since uncle Ron took over? Im a little bit bored 2day!

 

[Mr Tree]

is he delusional, ridiculously optimistic, or is the situation at BFC a lot better than we all think?! he seems to think a promotion push is on next year, i nearly fell off my chair

 

['Ayes B]

Oh well the clubs in the mire........

But how are we going to get out of it!!!!!!

What are those at the club doing.....

Have they arranged any prestigeous pre-season froendlies that will attract full houses to GP and cancel out our debt.
Arsenal/ Chelsea/ Newcastle/ Leeds/ Rangers/ Liverpool etc....

Are the board going to say hey look we have got all these shares, we owe lots of cash, lets have a share issue. If we create an additional share for every share that we own and then offer those shares to the supporters we use the money we raise to reduce the debt. (After all the only asset is the ground).

Are they going to introduce mini season tickets for all of our supporters who work shifts (Shifts are quite common be near an airport). A scheme where supporters could get 16 matchday vouchers for the price of 13 might go down quite well.

The interview acknowledge there is a problem, but gave no specific answers and did nothing to dispel fears of a 97 repeat.

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by Brickie Chap:


Once the Great One leaves, I want every trace of him gone forever.

[ 15 May 2002: Message edited by: Brickie Chap ]

So does that mean you want Rowlands, Powell, Paul Smith and Steve Hunt banished from the club as well? I mean Noades was responsible for all these players coming to the club. Are they such an awful legacy?

I would also like to ask whether anyone on here could explain how the club should have been run differently over the past four or five years so as to avoid going into debt?

 

[Brickie Chap]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
So does that mean you want Rowlands, Powell, Paul Smith and Steve Hunt banished from the club as well? I mean Noades was responsible for all these players coming to the club. Are they such an awful legacy?

I would also like to ask whether anyone on here could explain how the club should have been run differently over the past four or five years so as to avoid going into debt?

So be it players wise if thats what it takes. Do you really think that as a club we can afford to hold on to any decent players we have got if the right offer comes in?

Hello, we owe £7m. The bank, Barclays, wont allow any further OD increases without a viable plan. The chairman wants 'his' money back and wants to retire to Spain to play golf or whatever. All I am saying is...BYE

How could the club have been run different....lets see.....

HE COULD HAVE TOLD THE TRUTH FROM THE START

He mislead the fans. He made is own bed but we have to lie in it

[ 15 May 2002: Message edited by: Brickie Chap ]

 

[saffrey]

would anyone agree that this bloke would make a damn site better chairman than ron noades? at least he's positive about Brentford...

 

[abee]

Originally posted by Jimbo:

I would also like to ask whether anyone on here could explain how the club should have been run differently over the past four or five years so as to avoid going into debt?

The same way that Hargraves intends to run it next season (assuming that he is still in place). On a break-even basis.
The board of directors has now decided it seems that the club can indeed be run by matching the expenditure to income (see Hargraves latest interview)and not approving a business plan based upon having to sell player(s)for at least £1million each year.

I suggest that you also direct your very pertinent question to Mr Hargraves. I could give you a more complete answer but it is better coming from him.

 

['Ayes B]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
I would also like to ask whether anyone on here could explain how the club should have been run differently over the past four or five years so as to avoid going into debt?

Firstly, Ron should have appointed a manager to run the team, supported by a single coach.

Would another chairman have employed an unproven manager (Himself) on that salary and with that high calibre of coaching staff.

Dont forget, Micky Adams left Brentford FC for Brighton, a club with similar problems to ours. Where are Brighton now, in the first division with, waht is at the end of the day the team that Micky Adams built.

If you add up the wages of Ron the manager and his legion of coaching staff and then subtract the wages of Coppell and Downes, you will see how much of our debt could have been saved or exactly how much money was wasted playing Championship manager with our club.

I would get high profile friendlies, games against Aresenal, Chelsea, Rangers, Liverpool, Newcastle, Manchester United. Four high profile preseason games agianst opposition of this calibre would generate revenue equalling an additional four home games.

But one thing I would not have done is spent money that I haven't got, which must be really easy to if you can just walk away and leave the supporters of the club with your debt to pay off.

 

[BRENT]

All in all a positive collection of points. My confidence for next season is increasing. Please stay Sir steve, we can do it next year!

 

[Bucks Bee]

I reckon he'll go to Stoke!!!

 

[smilely]

Part 2 is now online! We have withdrawn from the Avon league as expected, so no reserve games 4 us this season, oh I forgot you need a reserve team first!
On a positive note membership is up! U Beez

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by Brickie Chap:

So be it players wise if thats what it takes. Do you really think that as a club we can afford to hold on to any decent players we have got if the right offer comes in?

Hello, we owe £7m. The bank, Barclays, wont allow any further OD increases without a viable plan. The chairman wants 'his' money back and wants to retire to Spain to play golf or whatever. All I am saying is...BYE

How could the club have been run different....lets see.....

HE COULD HAVE TOLD THE TRUTH FROM THE START

He mislead the fans. He made is own bed but we have to lie in it

[ 15 May 2002: Message edited by: Brickie Chap ]

My point regarding the players was that , as you agree, Noades has brought in decent players that we can sell. Most important for a small club like us. Your first point suggested that getting rid of Hargreaves was on principal, your second suggets that you acknowledge the worth of the players Noades bought in.

Whether he was Honest or not it doesnt stop the club going into debt.

Thanks also to abee and hayes b for taking the time to put forward some interesting points. However I dont remember anyone worrying about Noades being manager or buying herman at the time. Is the real problem the money he spent or the fact that we now have to pay it back?

Abee, I expect then that you would be happy for Hargreaves to stay on and see this plan through rather than just cut all ties with him due to his affiliation with Noades?

Finally I would imagine every club in the country will want to play the teams mentioned in pre seasons.

 

[ChinaBee]

Originally posted by Bucks Bee:
I reckon he'll go to Stoke!!!

My money is on this also

 

[abee]

Originally posted by Jimbo:

Thanks also to abee and hayes b for taking the time to put forward some interesting points. However I dont remember anyone worrying about Noades being manager or buying herman at the time. Is the real problem the money he spent or the fact that we now have to pay it back?

Abee, I expect then that you would be happy for Hargreaves to stay on and see this plan through rather than just cut all ties with him due to his affiliation with Noades?

I woke up to what was going on in December 1999 when the May 1999 accounts were issued to shareholders and it was obvious that far from "funding" the club Mr Noades and the directors were merely racking up an overdraft against the security of Griffin Park. Earlier at the December 1998 shareholders meeting I questioned the Chairman on why, if he was funding the club he needed to increase the borrowing powers to £6million. David Waddington then jumped in and gave some woolly answer which left me a bit puzzled but I admit that I bought the funding argument. So as far as Noades salary, the transfer activity and other expenditure was concerned I didn't at that time give a toss because I thought Noades was spending his own monies and had decided to have a bit of fun with the rumoured £22million that he had trousered from Goldberg. Did not everyone think the same at that time??

As far as Hargraves is concerned I have had my say on the "Why Pick On Gary Hargraves" thread. I will just repeat that he is not very good at his job. And before you jump all over me, his job is MANAGING DIRECTOR. He has substituted another job for the one he should be doing and spends what seems to be an inordinate amout of time on marketing issues where he clearly feels comfortably even though we have two full time (I believe) marketing staff.

It is a human trait that rather than do the job you are actually paid for you do another one that makes you feel more comfortable.

So no I do not believe that GH has the background or experience to sort out the mess and is considerably overpaid considering our circumstances.

 

[Epsom Bee]

Jimbo says that Noades has brought in decent players that we can sell. Unfortunately, due to Bosman, it is rare that we can do that now. Evans, Owusu, Ingimarsson et al will all go for nothing.

If we didn't have Bosman, we perhaps could have broken even by selling one or two of our better players for decent fees. We might then be viewing the Noades era rather differently.

 

[abee]

Originally posted by Epsom Bee:

If we didn't have Bosman, we perhaps could have broken even by selling one or two of our better players for decent fees. We might then be viewing the Noades era rather differently.

I have written before that given the post 1998 climate in football it was a high risk strategy to have a business plan which involved having to sell a player(s) for at least £1million per season to balance the books.

To me any transfer income should be treated as bunce and spent after the proceeds are in and not be a part of the overall business strategy.

If flogging £1million of talent every year to balance the books was that easy (even in the old days)don't you think that everyone would be doing it.

 

[Bee H]

when Mr Noades unfortunately took over Brentford, he acknowledged the implications of the pending Bosman ruling !

When he uses Bosman as yet another convenient excuse for ripping the ar5e out of the Club, it makes me wanna puke

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by Jimbo:

I would also like to ask whether anyone on here could explain how the club should have been run differently over the past four or five years so as to avoid going into debt?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The same way that Hargraves intends to run it next season (quoting abee from above)

Originally posted by abee:
As far as Hargraves is concerned I have had my say on the "Why Pick On Gary Hargraves" thread. I will just repeat that he is not very good at his job.

So he doesnt do his job right but next season the club should be run along the lines he has laid out?

 

[Jimbo]

This is me again but its not a double posting.

I was also just considering whether the busines plan that has been drawn up for next season ( by the board of directors and club officials as mentioned above) has been compiled in liason with Bees United?

Particularly now we have a Bees United member ( i think) sitting on the board.

 

[abee]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
Originally posted by Jimbo:

So he doesnt do his job right but next season the club should be run along the lines he has laid out?

Yes Jimbo, belatedly understanding what needs to be done and having the ability to do it are two different things. I wish he had "laid out these lines" as you put it four years ago.

No point in you and I crossing swords over Hargraves and/or Noades. It is like religion and politics, you can argue all day long but no-one ever changes their minds.