Help me understand

[northantsbee]

I am probably being incredibly thick, however i need some points clarified please. We seem to be spending an awful lot of time bitching on here about this person or that person. how this is being run and how that isnt..... once we get the most important part of our current set of problems sorted i.e. the raising of the £1m to pay off Noades does this mean some any or all of hte following.....

1. Noades and Altonwood will have no claim on BFC or any of its assets including GP?

2. That BFC will be owned by the Supporters Trust Bees United?

If the answer to number 2 is Yes then surely we are entitled to appoint a staff that is satisfactory to all those that have a vested interest in the club and as such, unless there is a clause in their contracts protecting them from termination whomever is in charge, get rid of the idiots that would have difficulty in oganising a pee up in a brewery.

Am i being too simplistic? Or just simply thick?

Actually perhaps you could all just stick to answering the numbered questions otherwise i may get a complex

 

[Luton Bee]

1. No we could need upto approx. £3.5M to leave Noades and Altonwood with no claim whatsoever.

2. Perhaps, there is no guarantee that BU will own if the million is raised.

 

[Brickie Chap]

Your questions indicate why BU have failed in my opinion to address some of the basic issues. The man in the street is no wiser to our position now than when BU was first formed. The majority(?) of the ones that understand a little more are considered doom merchants and holding personal grudges.

 

[JoeBourke]

Northants,

I think the following from Bee H is the most relevant post here in recent weeks:

I have been one of the severest critics of the Bees United strategy and particularly its management of Brentford Football Club since March 2003. I have however reflected whilst on hols recently on the situation that we are in and now believe that Bees United as a vehicle is the only viable solution to the problems of the club.

I state here and now that I am putting all other issues behind me and hope/pray/ask/plead others to join me as it is essential to raise the million and secure control of the majority of the BFC and GPS equity.

This certainly does not mean that I now endorse and excuse every decision that has been criticised in the past..... so very far from it believe you me but I now accept that the BU "raise a million" campaign is the only safe option and the way forward to stave off the property vultures currently circling GP.

The most important and only issue now is for Bees United to exercise the option, take full control of the club and then and only then can we start to argue about the finer points and if we are unhappy with the structure of a future BFC board of directors.

There will be no further negative posts from Bee H regarding Bees United until the option is exercised or if the option date is passed without an orderly transfer of control to BU. However following that momentous day if I believe that we have been let down regarding the structure of the board of directors put in place by Bees United and that clearly lessons have not been learned then once again they will be receive the benefit of my views. I am hoping however that they do realise and proceed immediately both as a Board and as individuals in the proper and correct way forward to try to help save our great Club - one person in particular should take note btw (hello JMc) !

I am today applying to rejoin BU and I will commence a standing order. I will however be sending it with a letter to Brian Burgess confirming my views and would ask all of you who have felt as strongly as I to join me in doing so - please !

As to your specific questions, raising £1 million and securing a bank refinancing of £2.5m puts BU in a position to acquire Altonwood's majority shareholding in the club. The overdraft is £4.5m, so Altonwood needs to put in £1m as well, interest free, as a direct loan to the club. The new £1m Altonwood loan together with the existing interest free Altonwood loan of £250k would be secured on Griffin Park. The overall debt is unchanged but interest savings of around £100k per year are made by replacing £2m of the overdraft with interest free loans.

Following the acquisition of the majority shareholding, a restructure of the board will take place with a number of new appointees coming on board to replace retiring directors. That board, which I believe Bee H is referring to in his penultimate paragraph above, will undertake future staffing decisions at the club.

 

[abee]

Your questions indicate why BU have failed in my opinion to address some of the basic issues. The man in the street is no wiser to our position now than when BU was first formed. The majority(?) of the ones that understand a little more are considered doom merchants and holding personal grudges.

 

[northantsbee]

Thank you so much, that was how i understood it but with all the wrangling going on it is impossible to tell. I fully and totally endorse what Bee H is stating and have been behind the principal of BU at all times.

In fact i dont want to think about the money i could have saved had i not been contributing, it would probably cover a fairly luxurious holiday.......

And no i dont want praise or acknolwedgement for putting my hand in my pocket but i would like all the Brentford fans who have stopped contributing to BU because of the inept way we are represented at Board level to start again.

We must all do what we can to save our club, and i hope this doesnt upset too many fans, but if i can attend race nights, balls and other events put on by the club to raise money for BFC why cant a few others. It is the same old faces everytime i go to these evenings, if i can make it early enough to shake a bucket (although admittedly i have only made it once!) then again why cant a few others....

Please everybody can we just put aside our grievences until after 30th September and pull together to raise this £1m then we can start finding true fans with half a brain to run the club. Incidentally it is my very humble opinion that a few more women getting involved with the everyday issues would be a great idea.

 

[abee]

Incidentally it is my very humble opinion that a few more women getting involved with the everyday issues would be a great idea.

I suggested to Brian Burgess a while back that at least one of our female supporters should be on any re-constituted BFC board and he was receptive without making promises.

 

[abee]

The man in the street is no wiser to our position now than when BU was first formed.

Actually Brickie I am never quite certain exactly from which sources the BFC supporting "man in the street" does get his information about the club.

The official site is a bit sparse frankly and clearly is not the place to go for any down to earth assessments (and I am not suggesting that it should be), the Chronny has a very small circulation and the other locals tend to skirt around the issues. The Nationals of course don't give a toss about some scrubby little club in west London who during the past fifty three years have only spent one season outside the bottom two divisions.

The official programme is a mixed bag.....since Bees United assumed the management role at BFC we have had articles from both Eddie Rogers and Graham Haynes eulogising Noades for example plus of course my favourite reporter telling anyone who cares to read the programme that "Noades and Altonwood cannot take the club back now anyway".......(attributed to Stephen Callen by Larry Signy a year or so ago) and that the new Bees United nominated director was "in a daze at all of the good news". On the other hand we have had some Doomsday articles (and quite right too) but somehow the lesson never gets punched across. No wonder regular programme readers are groggy with it all.

The Chronny runs a decent article on our plight but in the same edition we are told by "a source close to Brentford Football Club" that it's not the end of the world if we don't raise the million anyway and life wll just go on if we don't and anyway we are more attractive now to a buyer following a couple of years of Bees United's management......... ..... I'm still reeling from that one but again it didn't seem to faze Bees United particularly.

If anyone tries to get GPG readers exercised about where we are headed then the usual response is that it's all about personal agendas and even the official web site did not want anyone "bearing a grudge" to dare to ask to attend the recent "Fans Forum".

The GPG is a strange animal. The BFC CEO and John McGlashan openly tell us that they never visit it so what we say about them should not be of much concern.........clearly according to them the GPG doesn't register on the radar at Griffin Park and yet Joe Bourke takes time out from his very busy day to engage with us on here ( and we appreciate that) so maybe the GPG does have a few posters who are on the "find and discredit" list. I dunno frankly where Bees United should go to punch the message across and I would hazard a guess that not one in one hundred Bees fans (i.e. perhaps fifty supporters in total) could explain to a neutral intelligent listener what is our current situation, how did we get into it in the first place, who made the decisions that lead to this situation, who approved those decisions, what can we do to get out of it, how far have we got and what happens if we don't succeed.

 

[northantsbee]

Well done abee.

I just think that in terms of day to day things women sometimes seem to have more of a grip and have cost effective ideas.

Incidentally there are a number of things that i think ought to be bought up with the club.... i usually find Matt Davies very receptive but has liitle clout, JM takes forever to respond to anything RK is just a ..... well words fail me and really not sure who else to talk to. Points are as follows

1. The ladies loos on Brook Rd are appalling they havent even been cleaned since before the end of last season!! In fact the ladies at the training ground are in a better state.

2. There is a constant problem with falling water where i stand on Brook Rd, i think a bit of guttering might be locked.

3. Now we are no longer able to go from Brook Rd to Braemar would it not be a good idea to a) publicise this b) put up a table with some merchandise on it

4. Why cant we have a link from our 'official' website to the Back the Bees campaign

5. Who is in charge of promoting the club to potential sponsors and how is this done

6. Do we sell advertising space regularly or just in close season

7. Can we/ Do we organise sponsorship of BU material - advertising space etc

8. We are very local to Sky and they seem to like MA would it be possible to find out how to approach him about promoting the Back the Bees campaign or would he be not allowed to do that?

9. BU & The Club presumably has contact lsits of fans why do these not seem to be used for promoting events, fundraising ideas etc

10. I believe we use outside caterers for the abysmal food at GP, is there not a way it could be done by the club itself, therefore actually making money out of it.

I could go on but i will bore you all anyone got any answers please let me know if not i wonder if Mr Finch would like to hear from me!!!!

 

[abee]

Well done abee.

There are many posters on here who believe that I should be.

 

[northantsbee]

Lol i prefer my meat rare......................

 

[Ace Face]

Help me understand who are Altonwood and what is a monorail?

 

[abee]

Help me understand who are Altonwood and what is a monorail?

I'll explain it all to your little lad. It'll be much easier......

 

[JoeBourke]

Well done abee.

I just think that in terms of day to day things women sometimes seem to have more of a grip and have cost effective ideas.

Incidentally there are a number of things that i think ought to be bought up with the club.... i usually find Matt Davies very receptive but has liitle clout, JM takes forever to respond to anything RK is just a ..... well words fail me and really not sure who else to talk to. Points are as follows

1. The ladies loos on Brook Rd are appalling they havent even been cleaned since before the end of last season!! In fact the ladies at the training ground are in a better state.

2. There is a constant problem with falling water where i stand on Brook Rd, i think a bit of guttering might be locked.

3. Now we are no longer able to go from Brook Rd to Braemar would it not be a good idea to a) publicise this b) put up a table with some merchandise on it

4. Why cant we have a link from our 'official' website to the Back the Bees campaign

5. Who is in charge of promoting the club to potential sponsors and how is this done

6. Do we sell advertising space regularly or just in close season

7. Can we/ Do we organise sponsorship of BU material - advertising space etc

8. We are very local to Sky and they seem to like MA would it be possible to find out how to approach him about promoting the Back the Bees campaign or would he be not allowed to do that?

9. BU & The Club presumably has contact lsits of fans why do these not seem to be used for promoting events, fundraising ideas etc

10. I believe we use outside caterers for the abysmal food at GP, is there not a way it could be done by the club itself, therefore actually making money out of it.

I could go on but i will bore you all anyone got any answers please let me know if not i wonder if Mr Finch would like to hear from me!!!!

Thats a lot of questions Northants Bee:

1. If that is the case then this is inexcusable. I'll bring that to the attention of the operations manager - you might reinforce the point by using the Q&A facility and posting a question to [email protected], who will in turn direct it to the appropriate party for a response.

2. As in 1, happy to notify the club - but again it won't do any harm to reinforce that through the Q&A facility.

3. Access to Braemar from Brook road seems to be a safety certifcate issue - not sure if the store franchise would sell merchandise from a table, but no harm in suggesting it.

4. Legal advice is preventing the club, as the target of an acquisition, from directly publicising this particular Bees United campaign.

5. The new commercial manager (starting today I believe) is directly responsible for promoting the club to sponsors. Perhaps we will be hearing from him shortly, as to future plans.

6. I think advertising space is sold principally at the start of each season but throughout the season if there is unsold space.

7. There have been occassional sponsors for BU material, but most businesses appear more interested in the club programme as a means of reaching potential customers.

8. MA as a representative of the club may be proscribed from publicly promoting the BTB campaign.

9. BU sends out regular enewsletters - to subsribe forward a request to be placed on the list to [email protected]

10. Lindleys are the clubs catering contractors and I understand that the current contract runs to 2007. From what I have seen, quite a few clubs have gone this route as being more cost effective than in-house operation. Complaints of poor quality and high prices are a common factor at several clubs though - so service improvement is an ongoing issue to be addressed.

 

[jay]

9. BU sends out regular enewsletters - to subsribe forward a request to be placed on the list to [email protected]

Do they!
i've never got one! I've never been told they exist or where to sign up to them (other than the above obviosuly!)
- on the BU website front page would be a good idea

why doesnt BU just add all its members to its email list - and they can unsubscribe themselves if they wish!

Fair enough BFC cant promote BTB, but surely there can't anything wrong with BFC lending their email list to BU who can then send out an email to all!?

 

[abee]

1. If that is the case then this is inexcusable. I'll bring that to the attention of the operations manager - you might reinforce the point by using the Q&A facility and posting a question to [email protected], who will in turn direct it to the appropriate party for a response.

I respectfully suggest Joe that you bring it to the attention of the Operations Managers boss that is Mr Andy Finch who having been singing King's praises could shortly be starting to learn exactly what we have got in Mr Roy King. King clearly does not believe in "management by wandering about" as he seemed surprised that a door was hanging off the ladies loo in New Road (I think it was ) judging by the reporting on the Fans Forum.

As a CEO I have always insisted that every complaint about every division is copied to my desk and I would form my own judgements and I am surprised that Mr Finch has not instituted this already at BFC.......how else does he judge the competence or otherwise of his managers. (That's a question for the Q&A forum......it would never be answered of course and I'm certain that the BFC board has already asked Mr Finch on what he based his judgements about the competences of his staff all of whom we have been told are excellent....... )

 

[JoeBourke]

Do they!
i've never got one! I've never been told they exist or where to sign up to them (other than the above obviosuly!)
- on the BU website front page would be a good idea

why doesnt BU just add all its members to its email list - and they can unsubscribe themselves if they wish!

Fair enough BFC cant promote BTB, but surely there can't anything wrong with BFC lending their email list to BU who can then send out an email to all!?

Jay,

This is today's email from BU - goes to every member who has provided an email address and not unsubscibed. It's managed by Stedders, among the myriad of other things he does, so an email to BU or PM to stedders should get you on the circulation list. I'm sure he will pick up your suggestion of featuring the service prominently on the BU website.

The BTB campaign literature went out with the Season ticket mailings from the club and is distributed at home games. The enewsletter service is specifically for BU members.

LAUNCH A BALOON TO BACK THE BEES!

One of the events that climax the Back the Bees Week will be a Balloon Race. The Balloons will be released, at Griiffin Park, Brentford, at approximately 2.40 pm on 10 September 2005 - just before the start of the Brentford FC home game to MK Dons.

The owner of the balloon that has travelled the furthest and has it?s label returned by 10 October 2005 will win either; four match-day hospitality packages worth £260, at a Brentford FC home game during the current season (subject to availability) or an alternative £100 cash prize.

We are aiming to use the balloon race to target fundraising at non-Brentford supporters. It?s an ideal opportunity for Bees fans to sell to; family, friends, neighbours and school, college or work mates and it could make the difference between the £1 million appeal succeeding or failing.

The seller of the most balloons will receive two match-day hospitality packages, worth £130, at a Brentford FC home game during the current season (subject to availability).

Balloon cost: £1.50

All forms and money must be returned by 7 September 2005 to:

Back The Bees Balloon Race
Bees United
Griffin Park
Braemar Road
Brentford
TW8 0NT

Send no cash in the post- all cheques made payable to Bees United


So why not pick-up a form today from either the Club Shop or download one from http://www.beesunited.org.uk/news/2005/balloons270805.php Start selling the balloons to your family, friends, neighbours and school, college or work mates and have a chance to win those 2 free tickets!

There is just under a week left to sell these balloons please help!

+++++++++++++++

COMING TO STRIPES:

Friday 2nd September:
DUSTIN'S BAR MITZVAH
Gloriously shambolic West London mod-punks stop off at Stripes en route to taking over the world.

For all gigs admission is £5 (£3 concessions), payable on the door, with doors open at 7:45, and the concert starting at 8:30, and finishing at 11:00, unless otherwise stated.
For more information www.stripesmusic.org

 

[JoeBourke]

Northantsbee,

I am informed the toilet concerned has been completely redecorated this week. The broken seat has been repaired and the debris on the back of the door cleaned.

If you can detail the area where there is water spillage on the Brook Road this may help in expediting a check of the guttering there.

 

[northantsbee]

Mr King has actually addressed point one see other thread entitled My God I am in shock

 

[Gee Bee]

BU newsletter is always received by me. Always get sent to emails though.

 

[JoeBourke]

I respectfully suggest Joe that you bring it to the attention of the Operations Managers boss that is Mr Andy Finch who having been singing King's praises could shortly be starting to learn exactly what we have got in Mr Roy King. King clearly does not believe in "management by wandering about" as he seemed surprised that a door was hanging off the ladies loo in New Road (I think it was ) judging by the reporting on the Fans Forum.

As a CEO I have always insisted that every complaint about every division is copied to my desk and I would form my own judgements and I am surprised that Mr Finch has not instituted this already at BFC.......how else does he judge the competence or otherwise of his managers. (That's a question for the Q&A forum......it would never be answered of course and I'm certain that the BFC board has already asked Mr Finch on what he based his judgements about the competences of his staff all of whom we have been told are excellent....... )

Understand the point abee and fully commend your practice of insisting that every complaint is copied to the CEO.

 

[Banana]

4. Legal advice is preventing the club, as the target of an acquisition, from directly publicising this particular Bees United campaign.

How come they can publicise it in the programme then

 

[northantsbee]

Northantsbee,

I am informed the toilet concerned has been completely redecorated this week. The broken seat has been repaired and the debris on the back of the door cleaned.

If you can detail the area where there is water spillage on the Brook Road this may help in expediting a check of the guttering there.

Certainly i stand on the concrete block at the back by the third exit directly level with the left hand post of the goal.........

I even got dripped on on Sat and i cant remember it raining!!!

I hope to god it is the guttering and not something else!!!!

 

[Luton Bee]

Certainly i stand on the concrete block at the back by the third exit directly level with the left hand post of the goal.........

Are you that Blonde girl who stands there, usually wears a home shirt by any chance?

 

[JoeBourke]

How come they can publicise it in the programme then

It seems to be a bit of a grey area Banana, I guess in the legal world that's Bees United taking space to publicise the trusts activities.

 

[northantsbee]

Are you that Blonde girl who stands there, usually wears a home shirt by any chance?

Um dunno bout blond but certainly wear a home shirt...... im very noisy (well usually) and theres usually two or three of us on there (not sure if i should admit to my identity tho) lol

 

[Banana]

It seems to be a bit of a grey area Banana, I guess in the legal world that's Bees United taking space to publicise the trusts activities.

And the same would be so of a website as it is of a programme.

 

[JoeBourke]

And the same would be so of a website as it is of a programme.

I can't see any significant difference personally, Banana, but I'll leave it to the lawyers to advise, if there are other considerations to be taken into account.

 

[Brickie Chap]

I can't see any significant difference personally, Banana, but I'll leave it to the lawyers to advise, if there are other considerations to be taken into account.

...like not everyone at BFC actually wanting BU to win 'control'...

 

[Kay 4 Bee]

Fair enough BFC cant promote BTB, but surely there can't anything wrong with BFC lending their email list to BU who can then send out an email to all!?

I think you would find it contravenes the Data Protection Act.

 

[Banana]

I think you would find it contravenes the Data Protection Act.

Only if BU said in their declaration to the Registrar that they wouldn't share it with BFC

 

[Kay 4 Bee]

Only if BU said in their declaration to the Registrar that they wouldn't share it with BFC

Consulting the Register it would appear that neither BU nor BFC have signed up.

I can feel a Q&A coming on.

 

[Banana]

Consulting the Register it would appear that neither BU nor BFC have signed up.

I can feel a Q&A coming on.

Whoops!

 

[Kay 4 Bee]

Pause thread until next Thursday's Q&A response.


yawn

 

[jlove]

And the same would be so of a website as it is of a programme.

The programme has always had a disclaimer in it "Please note that the views expressed in the Programme are not necessarily those of Brentford Football Club"

This just shows what an anorak I am reading even the small print!

 

[Banana]

The programme has always had a disclaimer in it "Please note that the views expressed in the Programme are not necessarily those of Brentford Football Club"

This just shows what an anorak I am reading even the small print!

Add it to the website and BONGO!

 

[Silly Chip]

I think you would find it contravenes the Data Protection Act.

Presumably not if there is a disclaimer asking people to tick if they mind whether their details are passed onto a third party?!

 

[Banana]

Presumably not if there is a disclaimer asking people to tick if they mind whether their details are passed onto a third party?!

I believe that when an organisation registers under the DPA that they say with whom they will share the data - this information is given to those that are considering registering their personal data who can then choose whether or not to register.

However it seems from Kay 4 Bee's post that the "data controllers" of BU abd BFC (presumable the Chief Executive of Bees United and the de-facto chief Executive Director of Brentford Football Club Ltd) may have overlooked a rather large legal obligation.

 

[Kay 4 Bee]

I believe that when an organisation registers under the DPA that they say with whom they will share the data - this information is given to those that are considering registering their personal data who can then choose whether or not to register.

Not allowed to share the data unless permission has been given i.e when registering with BFC in whatever form there would have to be the infamous tick box saying "Tick if you do not want info to be passed on to 3rd party" and BU would count as a third party. That's a major point of having the DPA.

 

[abee]

I wouldn't be surprised if some had figured out who the source was, but naming names would put a huge question mark against my integrity, which is kinda important in my trade.

rofl

I offered at the time and on this website to name the source for Bees United's benefit but no one at BU was the slightest bit interested. Strange that as Joe Bourke is usually all over negative GPG posts like white on rice.

I wonder why they had no interest but no doubt plain vanilla members on the BU board would have run down your source at the following BU board meeting and demanded answers..........or not.

 

[Kay 4 Bee]

However it seems from Kay 4 Bee's post that the "data controllers" of BU abd BFC (presumable the Chief Executive of Bees United and the de-facto chief Executive Director of Brentford Football Club Ltd) may have overlooked a rather large legal obligation.

I have spoken to both BU and BFC today and it would appear that neither actually needs to be registered under the DPA. Having re-read the rules I concur other than one minor detail awaiting clarification.

 

[Banana]

I have spoken to both BU and BFC today and it would appear that neither actually needs to be registered under the DPA. Having re-read the rules I concur other than one minor detail awaiting clarification.

How have you arrived at this conclusion??

 

[Kay 4 Bee]

How have you arrived at this conclusion??

Read the criteria yourself and make up your own mind.

I did however suggest it would be worth joining up just for safety's sake. After all it is only £35 pa

 

[Banana]

Read the criteria yourself and make up your own mind.

I did however suggest it would be worth joining up just for safety's sake. After all it is only £35 pa

I could do that - and indeed I may already have done so.

However, what I asked was how did you arrive at your conclusion?

 

[Kay 4 Bee]

However, what I asked was how did you arrive at your conclusion?

You're not saying you value my opinion are you? I'm sincerely flattered.

 

[Banana]

You're not saying you value my opinion are you? I'm sincerely flattered.

Who knows - seen as you won't show us your working

 

[Kay 4 Bee]

Who knows - seen as you won't show us your working

Why do you want to see my working so much if you don't value it?

 

[nocoat]

So he can copy it :yes: Put your hand over your work and careful those who pretend they are just staring into space

 

[Kay 4 Bee]

So he can copy it :yes: Put your hand over your work and careful those who pretend they are just staring into space

Most incisive comment I've read on here all day I think.

 

[Banana]

Why do you want to see my working so much if you don't value it?

Who says I don't value it? How can I value something when I don't know what it is!