Howard Webb

Howard Webb

Really felt sorry for him tonight, he didn't stand a chance with the Dutch thugs. He's criticised for not having sent more of them off, but had he sent a couple off in the first half, as he could easily have done, he would have been equally slated for reducing the Final to a 9 v 11 farce.
 

Howard Webb

Keighley Bee said:
Really felt sorry for him tonight, he didn't stand a chance with the Dutch thugs. He's criticised for not having sent more of them off, but had he sent a couple off in the first half, as he could easily have done, he would have been equally slated for reducing the Final to a 9 v 11 farce.
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Spot on.

:imwith: :thetruth: :imwith: :thetruth:
 

Howard Webb

Still should have sent them off. Can you see him not producing a red in the Premier League
 

Howard Webb

He respected the importance of the match for fans, teams and individual players and his approach would have been applauded if the disgraceful behaviour of the Dutch hadn't pushed him too far.
 

Howard Webb

...........................I thought he had a poor game, too many 'whistle-stop' moments (which in themselves didn't allow the game to flow), inconsistency in handing out (or not, as the case may be) yellow cards, some important decisions were wrong, too many yellow cards (but then I believe he dishes out yellow cards as if they were invitations to his 40th birthday party)..................
 

Howard Webb

WisBee said:
.....................too many yellow cards..................
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Which yellow card was wrong ?
I thought he had a good game but I suppose it is always easy to blame the ref
 

Howard Webb

Is that Moat in the background.
 

Howard Webb

.......................evening all........................
 

Howard Webb

WarrenBee said:
Gazza is just behind him with lager, chicken & a fishing rod.

:cool:
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......................do you mean Gazza's step-daughter, Bamber?......................




........................(and just out of interest, how come HW gets so much time off from being a Plod - he must have been in SA for the best part of a month, he also referees most Saturday afternoons, and usually has a midweek somewhere (often in Europe) - given the time he must take up with training and fitness etc, I'm not altogether sure that there are enough hours in his week to do his 'proper' job?)...........................
 
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Howard Webb

WisBee said:
......................do you mean Gazza's step-daughter, Bamber?......................




........................(and just out of interest, how come HW gets so much time off from being a Plod - he must have been in SA for the best part of a month, he also referees most Saturday afternoons, and usually has a midweek somewhere (often in Europe) - given the time he must take up with training and fitness etc, I'm not altogether sure that there are enough hours in his week to do his 'proper' job?)...........................
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read my lips, FIVE MORE YEARS...

http://www.thestar.co.uk/football/Referee-Webb-blows-whistle-for.4135843.jp

nice work if you can get it!!!

:love2:
 

Howard Webb

Howard Webb

Keighley Bee said:
Really felt sorry for him tonight, he didn't stand a chance with the Dutch thugs. He's criticised for not having sent more of them off, but had he sent a couple off in the first half, as he could easily have done, he would have been equally slated for reducing the Final to a 9 v 11 farce.
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Don't necessarily feel sorry for him, he is a ref afterall;), but the way the Dutch played was disgraceful.

As you say, they could quite easily have finished the first half with9, may be less. Robbens constant pratting about should have seen him take the walk of shame. Before Van Marwijk shoots his mouth off over Webbs display, he should look at why his own team managed to pick up so many bookings in what is the pinacle of football tournements.
 

Howard Webb

Was the brandishing of 14 cards a record for a World Cup match?
 

Howard Webb

All the bookings he gave were warranted, but he did seem to get overtaken by the occassion a little in extra time.

Really should have spotted the deflection from the Dutch free kick off of the Spanish wall when he instead awarded a Spanish goal kick kick.

Also should have made Robben walk after he knocked the ball into the net once he had been whistled as being offside. Robben clearly stopped and then kicked the ball into the net as Casillas came to pick it up.

Could possibly have booked a couple of Spanish players for gesturing for him to show a card as well.

However, mainly the Dutct, but also the Spanish in part, helped ( or hindered) in making the game a poor spectacle of sportsmanship.
 

Howard Webb

I think he waa given the hardest match of the tournament to control and did a pretty good job - he wasn't faultless but I can't think of another referee who could have handled what happened last night.

The main error for me was that he probably wasn't harsh enough, he showed 14 cards (is that right?) but could perhaps have made it 20 with at least opne or two more reds, but then he'd been criticised the other way.

De Jong should have gone, Inesta was lucky for his reaction off the ball to another disgraceful late challenge by somone (probably van Bommell), Robben should have gone but I also think Puyol was very fortunate not to have got a second yellow for his pull back on Robben when he stayed on his feet and shot weakly towards the end of the 90 minutes.

No-one wanted to see lots of red cards or yellow cards and it is arguable if he sends someone off after 30 minutes it might quieten down, or it could go completely the other way.

It's always easy to have a pop at a ref but the Dutch reaction is a disgrace IMHO. Their main complaints seem to be over a poor decision to not give a corner - fair enough, very poor call - and that it lead to a goal about three minutes later :scratch: There is no way their other complaint about a foul on Elia holds up, it wasn't a free kick and doesn't excuse the poor defending for the goal.

IMHO the Dutch players and management should be looking closer to home for the reasons they lost.
 

Howard Webb

Thought he did well to keep 11 on the pitch for most of the game, only have to think back to the champions league final the other year when an early red ruined the game, he gave the players a couple of chances and did well in my opinion
 

Howard Webb

Banshee Mildew said:
Was the brandishing of 14 cards a record for a World Cup match?
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not sure - i remember betting on bookings in graham polls classic Croatia v Austraila match at the last one and wasn't there even more in that? i was delighted anyway.

:kingkev:

to be fair to ken i thought he did well to nearly control yesterdays final. it was rapidly turning into the classic film Rollerball (from 1975 starrring James Caan). if he had nicked one of two of them in the first half that might have ruined the game.
 

Howard Webb

Webb did very well given the circumstances, he was trying not to send players off in a world cup final did those Dutch cloggers not see that?

Dutch moans are those of very poor losers and a team that deliberately resorted to physical thuggery to try and upset a superior side...they should hang their heads in shame....to think they once had the tag of "total football"!
 

Howard Webb

Webb could've sent off two in the first half and another two in the second, so he did really well under the circumstances.
 

Howard Webb

TW3Bee said:
Webb could've sent off two in the first half and another two in the second, so he did really well under the circumstances.
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well i am not sure he did. I know what he was doing and was trying not to let the biggest game in the world beome a 11 versus 8 freak show, but to be fair the dutch not webb would have been responsible for that.

He should have sent van Bumhole of in the first half and anyone who responded to that went the same way. It is all well and good saying he done well not to show the red but the reality is that if holland had won on penalties and van bomell lifted the cup it would have been one of the biggest travesties in WC history.

Holland could have been rewarded for effectively cheating, they were given the freedom to kick and stud the best players in the world. Imagine iniesta went off for the retaliation on VB, retaliation is one thing but to not be punished is worse as it gives you cart blanch to do what the hell you like.

Webb virtually gave holland the right to whatever they liked as they knew he was never going to react.

He got lucky with the spain goal.

I also think that he got tired of holland so decided to let a couple of quick fire fouls on the dutch go unoticed on the back of two fouls they committed and just thought, sod you, i am playing on... and the second one led to the goal.
 

Howard Webb

mhead bee said:
I also think that he got tired of holland so decided to let a couple of quick fire fouls on the dutch go unoticed on the back of two fouls they committed and just thought, sod you, i am playing on... and the second one led to the goal.
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Did you really think Elia was fouled?

Looked standard modern footballer to me, kick ball too far, run into man, scream for obstruction. Not a foul.
 

Howard Webb

WisBee said:
.......................but that's his job; if he's not up to it, he should retire......................
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But who would have been up to reffing that acting?
Football is in trouble and I doubt think it's the ref's fault.
 

Howard Webb

Can you imagine if Mr Webb had sent off the Dutch players for the committed fouls? He would then be remembered for abandoning the World Cup final because the Dutch wouldn't have had enough players on the field.
 

Howard Webb

NorthamptonBee said:
But who would have been up to reffing that acting?
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..................Not the point, but maybe no-one was up to reffing that game, although I didn't see as much acting as many on here have - however, this thread is about Webb, and IMHO, he was not doing his job properly, for the reasons I've previously mentioned..................


NorthamptonBee said:
Football is in trouble and I doubt think it's the ref's fault.
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......................money is the problem within football, and it is the greed and the spinelessness of the governing bodies, both international and national, that has lead to this - when we see the next Portsmouth appear on the Premiership horizon (and I hope that when it happens, it will be to a really big club, for instance Chelsea, Liverpool or either of the Manchester clubs who seem to be the main culprits in terms of foreign owners with bottomless pockets) then maybe the football world will sit up, take notice and see sense....................................
 

Howard Webb

West Ealing Bee said:
Did you really think Elia was fouled?

.
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No I dont as it happens, but then i also think around 80% of all fouls given in the world cup are not fouls either, but they are still given.

I have seen that Elia one given as a foul about 10 times a game and I think webb just gave the benefit of the doubt to spain due to mitigating circumstances.
 

Howard Webb

The spanish fans are saying he was too lenient, the dutch are saying he was too harsh... it cant be both ways?

It was one of the dirtiest finals in memory and he didnt want to ruin the spectacle (which the dutch seemed hell bent on doing) by sending 2 players off in the first half. At the end of the day, the ones who can really ruin a game are the 22 players on the pitch, and HW did his utmost to keep it a balanced contest. He spotted every major incident though he was perhaps lenient, but he simply interprets the rules and as they say: his decision is final.

The spanish fans should not be moaning that they wanted to be playing against 9 men by half time. Great teams simply get on with it, and thats what the Spanish team did.

And the Dutch? They completely let themselves down, but as always a scapegoat is needed when there is no-one to blame but yourself.
 

Howard Webb

Phoenixkeeper said:
Really should have spotted the deflection from the Dutch free kick off of the Spanish wall when he instead awarded a Spanish goal kick kick.

Also should have made Robben walk after he knocked the ball into the net once he had been whistled as being offside. Robben clearly stopped and then kicked the ball into the net as Casillas came to pick it up.
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Yes he should have spotted that, but come on... that was one decision (not punishment) he got wrong in 120 minutes, I think he is allowed that much, and it wasnt a game-changing decision.

Also with Robben kicking the ball away, I thought HW dealt with it very well. Dissent is not an automatic yellow card, in the way that say... a professional foul is, and HW was exercising his own discretion in the incident. The punishment for dissent could be anything from a talking to, to a straight red. He knew the player was frustrated and already on a yellow, and that a red card would be a disproportionate response, so told him 'Final warning - if you do that again you're off'.

Dissent is the only time when the referee has complete discretion over the punishment, and it would have been a very weak offence to be sent off for in a world cup final. HW was very calm and used his head, unlike some other referees would have in that situation
 

Howard Webb

What annoys me is if he'd given a red in the first half for any of the 3 potential red cards, all the old lazy ex pros woudl have come out and said

'He's got to understand that the its the most important game of these palyers careers and they are understandably on edge. I';m afraid the referee showed no understanding of the situation'

Basically he couldnt win and I think the only thing he got really wrong was not sending off Puyl for pulling back Robben but even then he played advantage but Robben ballsed up.
 

Howard Webb

I think after the Netherlands performance Webb was going to get criticised for either not sending off players or sending them off. I thought he did pretty well, not sure if any other referee would have kept his cool under that sort of pressure. Interesting hearing some former Netherlands internationals saying they thought Webb was lenient in not sending players off!

By the way any one else when typing Webb started off just by habit putting We££?
 

Howard Webb

I thought hid did well too under extremely difficult circumstances.
 

Howard Webb

detours said:
Also with Robben kicking the ball away, I thought HW dealt with it very well. Dissent is not an automatic yellow card, in the way that say... a professional foul is, and HW was exercising his own discretion in the incident. The punishment for dissent could be anything from a talking to, to a straight red. He knew the player was frustrated and already on a yellow, and that a red card would be a disproportionate response, so told him 'Final warning - if you do that again you're off'.

Dissent is the only time when the referee has complete discretion over the punishment, and it would have been a very weak offence to be sent off for in a world cup final. HW was very calm and used his head, unlike some other referees would have in that situation
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Not wishing to be too picky, honestly, but dissent cannot be punished by a straight red card! Dissent is a cautionable offence, and while you feel Webb possibly acted with discretion in not issuing a second caution when Robben kicked the ball away, I still feel he should have sent him off.

Imagine if it had gone to penalties and Robben had scored the winning kick!!

Still I guess it is all about opinions!
 

Howard Webb

I'm sure Howard Webb had at the front of his mind not to ruin the most important football match in the world by sending players off.

But, rules are rules and in FIFA's eyes the rules are black and white and not open to individual referee's interpretation of them.

A studs up, almost chin high kung-fu kick is a red.
Kicking the ball away deliberately after the whistle has gone is a yellow.
Gesticulating an imaginary card at the ref is a yellow.
etc etc.

The referee is there to administer the rules, not interperet them to his own liking.
But isn't he a policeman?
I see a link there somewhere!
 

Howard Webb

corfubee said:
But, rules are rules and in FIFA's eyes the rules are black and white and not open to individual referee's interpretation of them.
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I suspect it is not quite as simple as that. I cannot believe Webb was not given a whole lot of instructions before the game, with quite possibly making every effort to keep 22 players on the pitch, at least for as long as possible, high among them.
 

Howard Webb

corfubee said:
I'm sure Howard Webb had at the front of his mind not to ruin the most important football match in the world by sending players off.

But, rules are rules and in FIFA's eyes the rules are black and white and not open to individual referee's interpretation of them.

A studs up, almost chin high kung-fu kick is a red.
Kicking the ball away deliberately after the whistle has gone is a yellow.
Gesticulating an imaginary card at the ref is a yellow.
etc etc.

The referee is there to administer the rules, not interperet them to his own liking.
But isn't he a policeman?
I see a link there somewhere!
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At the end of nearly every law of the game there is a statement which says "at the referees discretion". All bookable or sending off offences are down to each different referee, there is no such rule which states must be be booked for this must be sent off for that. In my eyes I thought he did an exceptional job last night.
 

Howard Webb

Robben and Kuyt have been publicly and stridently blaming Howard Webb for their defeat although they seemed to have overlooked Webb's forgiveness of blatant red card behaviour by De Jong, Van Bommell and Robben himself. Fortunately, Johann Cruyff brought reality to the Netherlands position as he delivered a scathing attack on his countrymen's behaviour on the field on Sunday.
 

Howard Webb

BeeHomeSoon said:
At the end of nearly every law of the game there is a statement which says "at the referees discretion". All bookable or sending off offences are down to each different referee, there is no such rule which states must be be booked for this must be sent off for that. In my eyes I thought he did an exceptional job last night.
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I agree BHS, Webb was exceptional as he refereed the final. He was exceptionally lenient to almost the entire Netherlands team who should have been reduced to eight men by the end of the match. Just because a ref can use his discretion that does not make every decision he makes a correct one.
 

Howard Webb

snowybee said:
Can you imagine if Mr Webb had sent off the Dutch players for the committed fouls? He would then be remembered for abandoning the World Cup final because the Dutch wouldn't have had enough players on the field.
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You never know the Dutch actually might have started playing some football.

Did anyone else hear Mark Lawrenson's comment when, I think Roben commited one of his numerous fouls, Roben claimed that he had taken the ball and ML said 'Yeah, which one'.
 
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