Igor Thiago (67 Viewers)

[Wilton Bee]

Here's a picture of James Tarkowski elbowing Ethan Pinnock in the head on Friday. Looks pretty bad from that picture to me but Stuart Atwell saw no issue with it. Rightly so, it was accidental.

View attachment 70217

Totally agree, trouble is, Atwell was on VAR yesterday and has to get his opinion seen to be right! Every other game this season I've seen, if the ref has already issued a yellow VAR won't get involved. I always knew yesterday was going to be trouble as both Oliver and Atwell have to make it about them, as we were singing plenty of times yesterday!!

 

[True Bee]

Whataboutery doesn't affect the VAR/referee's decision on the pitch. His explanation for upgrading the yellow to red was ‘... pushes his opponent in the face with force’ which was clearly true. Chema Andrés' actions before and during the incident are clearly mitigating circumstances but the reason for sending him off was accurate.

Keith post-match refers to the trend for players to bait opponents, feign facial injuries and generally aim to get opponents sent off – that's a whole different discussion that needs to be had but it's at a different level. Our players need more control over their emotions and we must've known we were going to get a high press 'on-the-edge' game, so it must've been in the briefing.

It happened, we move on and look forward to seeing Igor in our home game with City in four weeks' time.

The sad part of all of this is that the most talked about bits during and after a game is all about the diving, cheating and ridiculous feigning of injuries, neither YY or Thiagos are sending offs it's just the childish behaviour of opponents and this is ruining watching and enjoying a game of football.
I've been watching football for almost 55 years and at the moment it's a chore instead of a passion which I never felt possible, get back to pre var when most seasons evened themselves out with incidents and players were men not pamperd pooches!!!!!!!!

 

[larrysigny]

View attachment 70216

Notice that Igor STILL has a hand pushing him in the back.

 

[Stanley]

For what it’s worth SSN Ref Watch unanimously thought the decision was wrong

 

[taxi driver]

Whataboutery doesn't affect the VAR/referee's decision on the pitch. His explanation for upgrading the yellow to red was ‘... pushes his opponent in the face with force’ which was clearly true. Chema Andrés' actions before and during the incident are clearly mitigating circumstances but the reason for sending him off was accurate.

Keith post-match refers to the trend for players to bait opponents, feign facial injuries and generally aim to get opponents sent off – that's a whole different discussion that needs to be had but it's at a different level. Our players need more control over their emotions and we must've known we were going to get a high press 'on-the-edge' game, so it must've been in the briefing.

It happened, we move on and look forward to seeing Igor in our home game with City in four weeks' time.

This is the problem.

I think mitigation is used in Rugby.
I think if you view the whole Thiago incident and the Yarmo one against Liverpool the system in Rugby would come up with a different outcome.

If you just view Thiago's action in isolation it's a red card but viewed through the entire sequence I think it could easily have a different outcome.

The whole VAR thing is f***ed up, it's for clear and obvious errors and it wasn't.

Having just watched it back.....the game is f***ed and it's never a sending off imo, it's b***ocks

 

[taxi driver]

View: https://x.com/JPettersen00/status/1874015985214382093?a=TBBYCurGpwIG_ILpgnk&s=19


This received no punishment for reference

 

[badgerbee]

For what it’s worth SSN Ref Watch unanimously thought the decision was wrong

JAY BOTHROYD: The defender has initiated the whole incident; he has caused it.

When I look at it, Thiago is trying to shrug him off and his arm has brushed up the shirt and hit him in the face.

You cannot give red cards for that. You just can't. It is a terrible decision for me. It is the wrong decision.

 

[randello]

The problem seems to have developed over the whole season. Referees have been taking a different approach this season and letting defenders get more physical with Igor. As well as the frustration of not having many chances and fluffing the ones he had, he has also had to deal with being held and pushed a lot more and not getting any protection from the officials. It came to a head with the Forest game where Darren England until the 90th min let Milkenovic manhandle him throughout the game.
Igor has been picking up regular bookings and his game and reaction need to be looked at as it will continue to be an issue with the officials. Then in yesterday's game he gets fouled and harassed trying to relieve the pressure and take the ball up the pitch, Oliver takes too long to blow for the offence and Thiago brushes Andres on the floor who then leaps up and shoves him hard in the chest, Thiago at this point with another Brighton player crowding him, tries to push him away but smacks him in the mouth. At that point it was always going to be a red, as he made contact with the face. It must be really hard to keep cool under such provocation but the Brentford players are now gaining a reputation for being hot headed and having disciplinary issues and other coaches and referees are picking up on this. Thiago needs to work with the Brentford staff to bounce back after the suspension with a new approach and somehow install calming mantras when being goaded.

 

[nick logan]

Are we appealing ?

 

[BFC1997]

He doesn't deliberately strike the opponent and he doesn't use excessive force. Both are requirements for violent conduct under the law.

He's also provoked into the reaction to shrug off the opponent, by misconduct worthy of a yellow card, which further mitigates the (unintentional) outcome. I think Oliver was using his discretion under Law 5 and invoking the 'spirit of the game' stipulation when he gave a yellow in both directions, I don't think it is VAR's place to force a decision to overturn that call.

Given all the above I'm confident it's an incorrect decision. Not just "game's gone", but wrong. This should be appealed and overturned. Consensus also in the media and even amongst Brighton fans is also that it's not the right decision. This is not a three-game suspension offence.

 

[Untouchable]

He doesn't deliberately strike the opponent and he doesn't use excessive force. Both are requirements for violent conduct under the law.

This is correct. And it’s the wording of the laws that is important.

There are 2 routes to a red card for violent conduct.

The first:

“Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made.”

I’ve highlighted the necessary elements. We know that Oliver did not send Thiago off for excessive force or brutality because this was his announcement:


View: https://x.com/plmatchcentre/status/2119437631352099142?a=FhSL8Bt5y1WFOOR1E0w&s=46


Oliver’s use of ‘force’ in this context is to try and establish that the force was more than negligible.

So we’re into the second route to a red card:

“In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible.”

This requires intent. Thiago is not the aggressor. He is not looking at his opponent. He is walking away. The first contact is with the chest and then the arm comes up and makes contact with the face. You cannot establish that there was an intent to strike the face of his opponent.

Once you’ve ruled out excessive force and brutality (which can be done by the actual announcement made by Oliver) and once you’ve ruled out intent, violent conduct is not established.