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Is it cricket...?

Edmundo

Edmundo

Whinging pom
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Is it cricket...?

... to make use of substitute fielders in the way England has been doing?

Clearly Ricky Ponting has been getting his knickers in a twist over this subject and thinks it isn't in the spirit of cricket. But why not? The first players I recall taking extensive breaks after long bowling spells to change their shirts and no doubt freshen up are Dennis Lillee and Terry Alderman. So it's not like we invented the idea, is it?

And the umpires don't seem to have any problems with it, do they? Is it because our sub fielders have been good fielders? Surely that can't be it as I don't believe that the convicts send out anyone other than the best fielder available to them when they need to use a sub.

I'm genuinely puzzled that Ponting has such a bee in his bonnet on this matter. Reading an excellent interview with Brett Lee in today's Guardian, I can't help but think that Australia would be better off if their captain could view matters as Lee does. Lee discusses his appeal for LBW against Matthew Hoggard and notes that the umpire made the right decision for the wrong reason and Lee is clearly happy to live with the foibles and ups and downs of umpiring decisions. So why isn't Ponting?

Anyway, what are GPG-ers thoughts on the rights and wrongs of the way England use sub fielders?
 

Is it cricket...?

When ICC passed the rule to allow bowlers to be off for up to 8 minutes with no penalty, it must have been in their minds that it would cover changes of shirt, boots etc or 5 mins massage to ease pains. So England are just using it as it was intended.

In the case of Ponting's dismissal, Jones was off injured so the 8 minute rule didn't apply.

As for who the sub fielders are, every team will use young athletic fielders.
 

Is it cricket...?

As long as the player has a genuine injury no probs. I don`t agree the player should go off for a rub down.

The trouble with Pontings argument about subs falls over because at the end of the day he had no reason to risk taking a quick single. It wasn`t a one dayer run chase. Any good fielder could have run him out with a good throw - in this case it happened to be Pratt.

I would also like to say that all parties have said what a great spirit the series has been played in. It now seems a bit rich from Ponting that because he was run out by a sub, that somehow we are the death of the gentlemens game and are worse than the dark days of the Pakistan ball tamperers.
 

Is it cricket...?

This would not be quite so bad if it were not for good old fashioned Aussie hypocracy.
I do seem to recall that when the Aussies were trying to nurse Dennis Lillee along as the great man came to the end of his career, they were guilty of exactly the same thing.
 

Is it cricket...?

Ponting would not be moaning about subs if they were leading the series. I'ts just sour grapes. FACT.
 

Is it cricket...?

No one apart from Stedders on this thread is worth listening to FACT

Stedders has now spoken, topic closed FACT
 

Is it cricket...?

Someone should ask Ponting if bowling under-arm is in keeping with "the spirit of cricket"?
 

Is it cricket...?

for years we've been known as the whingeing poms - how ironic....

i can see his point but they raised it with the umpires and they're fine about it. case closed :shrug:
 

Is it cricket...?

I think perhaps he is trying to get his defence in first before the Australian press rip into his captaincy should we regain The Ashes.
 

Is it cricket...?

Australia are very big on the 'spirit of cricket' at the moment and I suppose on that basis England aren't quite acting within the 'spirit' of the game.

But they are acting within the rules, bowlers need to change shirts, change boots and then come back on the field. Being at home means you can replace that man with a good fielder, it's called home advantage.

Ponting is under pressure, he knows he will be the first Australian captain not to beat England for 18 years and is now looking likely to relinquish the Ashes. He is lashing out at whatever and whoever he can.

Teams have done it for eons and will continue to do so, if Ponting has a problem with it he should talk to the ICC not the press.
 

Is it cricket...?

now i'm sure Michael Clarke's (long standing) back injury meant that Brad Hodge (2 catches) shouldn't have been able to field if England had wanted to get arsey.
 

Is it cricket...?

West Ealing Bee said:
Australia are very big on the 'spirit of cricket' at the moment and I suppose on that basis England aren't quite acting within the 'spirit' of the game.
Click to expand...
That's the bit I don't get. How is it not within the spirit of cricket? Does Ponting know what Harmison and others do when they leave the field briefly?
 

Is it cricket...?

The H said:
now i'm sure Michael Clarke's (long standing) back injury meant that Brad Hodge (2 catches) shouldn't have been able to field if England had wanted to get arsey.
Click to expand...

Hit the nail on the head. So the Aussies were allowed to have a sub fielder on when Clarke hurt his back but England have to play with 10 players when Jones is in hospital? :confused: Shut ya mouth Ponting and get used to the fact we have outplayed your boys for most of the series with or without a sub fielder.
 

Is it cricket...?

Edmundo said:
That's the bit I don't get. How is it not within the spirit of cricket? Does Ponting know what Harmison and others do when they leave the field briefly?
Click to expand...

What are you insinuating? rofl
 

Is it cricket...?

I'm not trying to insinuate anything - I'm genuinely curious as to why this seems to have really got to Ponting. Lee's remarks were interesting - rather than explain/justify/agree with Ponting, he simply said "he's our captain and we back him" - admirable sentiments from the admirable Lee, but not exactly 100% endorsement of the actual issue.
 

Is it cricket...?

Edmundo said:
That's the bit I don't get. How is it not within the spirit of cricket? Does Ponting know what Harmison and others do when they leave the field briefly?
Click to expand...

Of course he doesn't and neither do we.

It is just a bit suspicious from his point of view that it happens so regularly, almost after every spell, be it long or short.

His main fault was to pick up on Pratt who was on the field for a genuine injury.
 

Is it cricket...?

`
Edmundo said:
Lee's remarks were interesting - rather than explain/justify/agree with Ponting, he simply said "he's our captain and we back him" - admirable sentiments from the admirable Lee, but not exactly 100% endorsement of the actual issue.
Click to expand...

I thought Shane Warne's body language was interesting on Sunday. I don't think he agreed with some of the fields that Ponting was setting. I don't think Ponting will last the year as captain but I don't see too many other captains in their side, assuming that Warne's past transgressions will mean that he'll be overlooked.
 

Is it cricket...?

Edmundo said:
That's the bit I don't get. How is it not within the spirit of cricket? Does Ponting know what Harmison and others do when they leave the field briefly?
Click to expand...

the suggestion is that England's fast bowlers seem to take a break just before they are starting a fresh spell, and that they are going off for fresh instructions from Troy Cooley (our Australian bowling coach) or for a massage.
 

Is it cricket...?

Why not just change the rules and use the fielding circle from the one day matches. Any sub fielder would have to be stationed outside the circle.
 

Is it cricket...?

I reckon Gilchrist will be their next captain. The amount of stories of disagreements in the Aussie camp over Ponting is good motivation for England and Wales and shows we have them well and truely on the rack.
BTW it would be Pieterson we would have had back in the pavillion as his dropped catches have been a regular feature.
 

Is it cricket...?

Interesting poll on an Aussie web site.
The questions seem to be imply underhand tactics; although in fairness the results, so far, are complementary to England.

Don't you just love it when the Aussies whinge? :)
 

Is it cricket...?

Very interesting poll, but not as much as the poll they ran earlier that showed that 45% of them thought Shane Warne should have been dropped!

Plus a curious article on that site written by Peter Roebuck, who I had always assumed was English when he played for Somerset - but seems to be an Aussie and deeply smitten by Ricky Ponting to boot!
 

Is it cricket...?

Edmundo said:
Very interesting poll, but not as much as the poll they ran earlier that showed that 45% of them thought Shane Warne should have been dropped!
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Yes, that one made me laugh. I get the impression, at times, he is more widely regarded in this country than he is at home.

I reckon we should make a deal that he can play for us. He still looks as though he could go on for another five years to serve the qualification period. ;)
 

Is it cricket...?

Edmundo said:
Glad to see everyone agrees with me that Ponting is just a whinging convict. Is there no-one who wants to stand up for him?
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Blimey, are you moving to the right wing with racist coments like this Ed? :fishing:
 

Is it cricket...?

However, Michael Vaughan, the England captain, insisted that his team were playing well within the rules. "I mean Simon [Jones] was in hospital having an X-ray," Vaughan said. "We just had a fielder on, he ran Ricky out with great throw. It was a great piece of fielding. "[The bowlers] take a lot of liquid on board and sometimes you just have to nick to the loo."
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http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/217530.html

Seems a reasonable explanation to me or are the players supposed to take a p*** out in the middle of the pitch?
 

Is it cricket...?

Doctoring of the ball - 1%

The substitute fielder policy - 0%

Inept umpiring - 6%

Pitches prepared for English bowlers - 1%

Nasty and unnecessary sledging - 0%

Poor form by the Australians - 32%

Brilliant form by the English - 57%


Total Votes: 9457
 

Is it cricket...?

mind you, those figures do only add up to 97%....
 

Is it cricket...?

Leonardo said:
I reckon Gilchrist will be their next captain. The amount of stories of disagreements in the Aussie camp over Ponting is good motivation for England and Wales and shows we have them well and truely on the rack.
BTW it would be Pieterson we would have had back in the pavillion as his dropped catches have been a regular feature.
Click to expand...

Given the deterioration of Gilchrist's play this series (keeping wicket to a similar standard to G Jones and scoring 50 fewer runs at an average that is 8 worse) I would be surprised if they loaded captaincy duties onto him unless they wanted to destroy his game completely!

There's no reason why the Aussies couldn't bring along a few academy players on tour to be their sub fielders. The number 4 England sub is 48!
 

Is it cricket...?

AB said:
Given the deterioration of Gilchrist's play this series (keeping wicket to a similar standard to G Jones and scoring 50 fewer runs at an average that is 8 worse) I would be surprised if they loaded captaincy duties onto him unless they wanted to destroy his game completely!
Click to expand...

Gilchrist won't be their captain. I don't think they'll alter it but if they do they should go for Warne for a couple of years and hope that Clarke, or perhaps Hussey or Katich can make themselves favourite next time.

AB said:
There's no reason why the Aussies couldn't bring along a few academy players on tour to be their sub fielders. The number 4 England sub is 48!
Click to expand...

England take Paul Collingwood on every tour ;) :sorted:
 
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